Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => Moderation Discussion => Topic started by: Lyn Farel on 24 Dec 2014, 10:29
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As per that thread (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=6328.0) that made me wonder several things : since that FAQ is not hard written in the rules, and not part of the rules, and that obviously some people are unable to follow it or just do not bother, what is the mod stance on this ? Is that FAQ truly useful that way ? What is the point of it if nobody cares ?
Here in our example it's post after post hammering other points of views, or tastes of other people as "pile of crap", "mediocre", etc, again and again. Not even a single "I think that..." or whatever eases it a little. It is often the best way to have the other party answer in similar fashion pretty quick and the tone goes from quiet to flamebaity or outright hostile. Leading eventually to modding of otherwise good threads spiraling into oblivion.
Eventually, either I am not understanding the FAQ and polite posting very clearly, or either it is not very useful since people will tell you "I don't care LOL" ?
Or just outright tell me if i'm living in another imaginary universe and I should HTFU.... :|
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"hammering other points of views" by disagreeing with them. Yeah, I don't think that's something you can enforce anywhere but facebook pages and with block buttons.
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I disagree because reasons.
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Your post is bad, and you should feel bad.
one way of forming a post is suggested in the FaQ, the other is not.
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Reasons were provided.
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Your reasons were that they were crap this and DIW that. Also lol I make a statement about rp being stagnate due to inflexibility with the IGS and it gets katacombed. New timed record achieved.
But seriously, Lyn's right.
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I don't feel that the IGS is the correct place for that kind of RP content.
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The IGS isn't the place for that crap, shove it somewhere else.
It's about how the reasons are phrased.
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Lou said it better than me actually. Phrasing and tactfulness (tact, which is lolz coming from me).
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As per that thread (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=6328.0) that made me wonder several things : since that FAQ is not hard written in the rules, and not part of the rules, and that obviously some people are unable to follow it or just do not bother, what is the mod stance on this ? Is that FAQ truly useful that way ? What is the point of it if nobody cares ?
Here in our example it's post after post hammering other points of views, or tastes of other people as "pile of crap", "mediocre", etc, again and again. Not even a single "I think that..." or whatever eases it a little. It is often the best way to have the other party answer in similar fashion pretty quick and the tone goes from quiet to flamebaity or outright hostile. Leading eventually to modding of otherwise good threads spiraling into oblivion.
Eventually, either I am not understanding the FAQ and polite posting very clearly, or either it is not very useful since people will tell you "I don't care LOL" ?
Or just outright tell me if i'm living in another imaginary universe and I should HTFU.... :|
We've been telling you to HTFU for years, Lyn.
That said, The FAQ, like the rules, are Subjective. They describe an overall mood and atmosphere that we want to promote here on Backstage. Over the years, there've been very few tweaks to the Rules sticky because it has mostly served well. Even that "It's been 4 years..." thread a few months back, while resulting in a good bit of healthy discussion, did not yield much in the way of change because on the whole it seemed to demonstrate that no dramatic changes were actually required.
In relation to the thread you're highlighting in the OP, reports were made, which generated Report threads, which have multiple replies in them. This means that posts are being discussed. I remind you that it only takes one team member to decide a thing is worth moderating. I personally did not see Mizhara's posts as excessively rude. If, throughout the course of the day, the other moderators log in, see the posts, and choose to bin them, then that will be a thing.
In the meantime... no backseat moderation. See a problem? Report it. Have questions regarding the approach to moderation? Create a thread in this forum. Which, evidently, you already know how to do both of those things. So everythings seems to be fairly well sorted, wouldn't you say?
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New timed record achieved.
Quick forum check first thing upon getting out of the shower and before last minute Christmas shopping. Timing was p. good.
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Your reasons were that they were crap this and DIW that. Also lol I make a statement about rp being stagnate due to inflexibility with the IGS and it gets katacombed. New timed record achieved.
But seriously, Lyn's right.
The opinion that it was crap was corroborated with reasons.
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(http://wondermark.com/c/2014-09-19-1062sea.png)
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As per that thread (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=6328.0) that made me wonder several things : since that FAQ is not hard written in the rules, and not part of the rules, and that obviously some people are unable to follow it or just do not bother, what is the mod stance on this ? Is that FAQ truly useful that way ? What is the point of it if nobody cares ?
Here in our example it's post after post hammering other points of views, or tastes of other people as "pile of crap", "mediocre", etc, again and again. Not even a single "I think that..." or whatever eases it a little. It is often the best way to have the other party answer in similar fashion pretty quick and the tone goes from quiet to flamebaity or outright hostile. Leading eventually to modding of otherwise good threads spiraling into oblivion.
Eventually, either I am not understanding the FAQ and polite posting very clearly, or either it is not very useful since people will tell you "I don't care LOL" ?
Or just outright tell me if i'm living in another imaginary universe and I should HTFU.... :|
We've been telling you to HTFU for years, Lyn.
Are you kidding me ? You spent your first months coming back on backstage screaming all around exactly the contrary to what you just said : "If there is one thing I WILL NOT TOLERATE ON THIS FORUM IS PEOPLE TELLING HTFU". :|
Well at least, the first thing I thought was "I love this guy !" :P
That said, The FAQ, like the rules, are Subjective. They describe an overall mood and atmosphere that we want to promote here on Backstage. Over the years, there've been very few tweaks to the Rules sticky because it has mostly served well. Even that "It's been 4 years..." thread a few months back, while resulting in a good bit of healthy discussion, did not yield much in the way of change because on the whole it seemed to demonstrate that no dramatic changes were actually required.
In relation to the thread you're highlighting in the OP, reports were made, which generated Report threads, which have multiple replies in them. This means that posts are being discussed. I remind you that it only takes one team member to decide a thing is worth moderating. I personally did not see Mizhara's posts as excessively rude. If, throughout the course of the day, the other moderators log in, see the posts, and choose to bin them, then that will be a thing.
In the meantime... no backseat moderation. See a problem? Report it. Have questions regarding the approach to moderation? Create a thread in this forum. Which, evidently, you already know how to do both of those things. So everythings seems to be fairly well sorted, wouldn't you say?
Well, thanks you for not reading at all the OP, but first : I always try to report what breaks the rules. Second, Miz did not break any rule, but broke half of the "FAQ - Polite posting" bullets point. So I assume that we can now report people for breaking those too, right ?
Your reasons were that they were crap this and DIW that. Also lol I make a statement about rp being stagnate due to inflexibility with the IGS and it gets katacombed. New timed record achieved.
But seriously, Lyn's right.
The opinion that it was crap was corroborated with reasons.
It has never been about reasons. I do not really understand why you suddenly bring that here... ?
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Lyn.
Everyone can always report anyone else for anything they feel like, this is nothing new.
Modteam reserves the right to not act on it if it doesn't break the rules, this is not news either.
That said if someone should abuse the report function it can, and most likely will, be seen as trolling and will be dealt with accordingly.
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I'm too lazy to do the copy/pasting/cropping/etc. - Havo.
So, now that Jek's pushed the buttons and Katacomb'd the things:
I was already aware that Jekatarine was going to be getting to that thread shortly when I made my first reply in this thread. So I just want to point out again what I said about "It only takes one team member to decide a post/thread is mod-worthy and take care of it." This is why we emphasize and insist that the best thing to do is just to report something that seems bad and let us deal with it. Yes, that includes the FAQ guidelines. If it seems like it doesn't belong on Backstage, push the Report button.
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Lyn.
Everyone can always report anyone else for anything they feel like, this is nothing new.
Modteam reserves the right to not act on it if it doesn't break the rules, this is not news either.
That said if someone should abuse the report function it can, and most likely will, be seen as trolling and will be dealt with accordingly.
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I would not have held my breath but since you actually acted here, then thanks for making this a better place to breath in.
I'm too lazy to do the copy/pasting/cropping/etc. - Havo.
So, now that Jek's pushed the buttons and Katacomb'd the things:
I was already aware that Jekatarine was going to be getting to that thread shortly when I made my first reply in this thread. So I just want to point out again what I said about "It only takes one team member to decide a post/thread is mod-worthy and take care of it." This is why we emphasize and insist that the best thing to do is just to report something that seems bad and let us deal with it. Yes, that includes the FAQ guidelines. If it seems like it doesn't belong on Backstage, push the Report button.
So I suppose that's why you spend your time arbitrarily modding the shit out of everything that displeases you ? :/
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Holy shit people are using the word "Katacomb" ironically and I am LOVING EVERY SECOND OF IT. Ahahahahahaha
MY TAKEOVER OF THIS FORUM IS ALMOST COMPLETE.
Okay, but serious:
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/472/seriouscatcover.jpg)
Lyn is right guys. Look, I'm not the nicest person out there sometimes, hell I can be a total cuntwipe... but even I make an effort to post things in a way that will not be construed as a blatant violation of the rules. Take a look at the Katacombs (teehee), and notice how rarely you'll find me there. I'm not bragging. I'm actually saying most of the rest of you harping on Lyn have a lot of room to improve.
The biggest problem is that most of those people in the 'combs can't seem to avoid the urge to post about something they have a strong or emotional disagreement with, or they simply don't feel the rules apply to them. You know the funny thing? People like Anslo, who openly defy and mock the rules and community, are the least of the offenders. There's a lot of egregious violations in the Katacombs, and from people who should (and do) know better.
The issue isn't that they don't know better.
The issue is that they don't care.
As for Havohej, I have to echo Lyn's statements. You made an exceedingly clear statement against the use of HTFU on this forum, and yet you've decided to use it yourself. Poor show, man. Very poor show. We don't need you to make any apologies or take back anything you said, but you do need to know where your words have put you. Those four letters should be off limits to you.
You can all be better than this.
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So I suppose that's why you spend your time arbitrarily modding the shit out of everything that displeases you ? :/
Read the Rules and FAQ. Modding the shit out of everything that displeases us (individually) is pretty much the only thing that keeps this place running.
Now, in all seriousness, I am not Morwen. I will have no qualms about nitpicking your every post until you've got enough warnings piled up against you for a p. ban to be supported by the entire team (as differentiated from the p. ban of Andreus Ixiris - for trolling the mod who just rightly modded him with his last ban on record being a 30-day, mind you - which was not supported by the entire team). Do not attempt to start a petty little shitfit war with me like the one you attempted to wage against Morwen for over a year.
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As for Havohej, I have to echo Lyn's statements. You made an exceedingly clear statement against the use of HTFU on this forum, and yet you've decided to use it yourself. Poor show, man. Very poor show. We don't need you to make any apologies or take back anything you said, but you do need to know where your words have put you. Those four letters should be off limits to you.
It was said tongue in cheek, much like the beginning of my last post. Grow up, learn to recognize a jest and get over it.
Also, "Katacomb" is no longer ironic, given that the Catacombs actually have been renamed due to popular demand.
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For what it is worth, I can perfectly admit that I have myself a problem with a single point of the FAQ, which is
"Q: Isn't all this subjective?
A: Yes. The Mods do their best to be fair, but inevitably, this is a subjective standard. Another thing for you to Deal With."
And that I shall try to improve, as shown in the recent katacombed posts where after a certain bad personal experience with some of the mods, and a certain delusion and loss of trust, was not expecting anything anymore and got shown wrong. Well, it's sobering up, for sure.
As for Havohej, I have to echo Lyn's statements. You made an exceedingly clear statement against the use of HTFU on this forum, and yet you've decided to use it yourself. Poor show, man. Very poor show. We don't need you to make any apologies or take back anything you said, but you do need to know where your words have put you. Those four letters should be off limits to you.
It was said tongue in cheek, much like the beginning of my last post. Grow up, learn to recognize a jest and get over it.
What the ?
Apparently you are the only one to recognize it, and worse, using that as such a lame excuse is beyond words. Was it just a jest since the beginning then, when you told people with admin comments that HTFU is not an option ?
So I suppose that's why you spend your time arbitrarily modding the shit out of everything that displeases you ? :/
Read the Rules and FAQ. Modding the shit out of everything that displeases us (individually) is pretty much the only thing that keeps this place running.
Now, in all seriousness, I am not Morwen. I will have no qualms about nitpicking your every post until you've got enough warnings piled up against you for a p. ban to be supported by the entire team (as differentiated from the p. ban of Andreus Ixiris - for trolling the mod who just rightly modded him with his last ban on record being a 30-day, mind you - which was not supported by the entire team). Do not attempt to start a petty little shitfit war with me like the one you attempted to wage against Morwen for over a year.
Is that a threat ? As a mod, no, an admin, you should know better than that. I am not trying to start any war, the same way it was for Morwen, who is someone that is very nice and decent and somehow with whom I do not have had anymore issues with mod wise for a good chunk of time now since he changed a lot of his modding/posting habits in there.
You know, before that shitstorm about slaves on the summit and all, where I still consider to have been treated and talked to like utter shit, again and again, without much happening, yes, something has broken between me and the moderation team. Especially since I have always been one of its strongest proponents over the years, and still am concerning its rules. Maybe a bit too much, right. But before that, I was a very happy, discreet and productive member that went along with almost everyone nicely. Now I have been collecting countless private messages from disgusted members, either people that deserved it, or either people that just never got katacombed ever and just left because of :mods and cliques:.
You on the other hand, and am certainly not the only user to consider so, consider you as a troll admin, nothing more, nothing less. Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to mod as you like without consenting with other mods. You say it yourself in your own answer. vOv
I was always told by Silver and other mods that they were actually to discuss mod actions before doing anything, and definitely not doing it on a whim alone, especially to avoid the dreaded claims of bias and subjective moderation, you know.
So yes, in any case, that forum was a lot more sane in the past. It has slowly started to drown into an obnoxious atmosphere where gaps between different schools of RP and OOC ideas poison everything. Maybe i'm doing it wrong, but I have always been crusading against that, because it's not pretty, and overall makes the place stinks like Chatsubo could have been in the past. I don't think people come here to read that their opinions are shit and be japed to constantly when people are emotionally unable to control themselves and keep civil. And then when pointed out for doing so just answering "Oh ? U not happy ? I don't care, i'm free of expression and can say anything I like ! Deal with it." If admins start to do that to, i'm not really sure where we are going.
So well, your little "Modding the shit out of everything that displeases us (individually) is pretty much the only thing that keeps this place running.", you know what you can do with it since I am not sure anymore that you actually know how this place has been running before you came back.
Thank you.
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As for Havohej, I have to echo Lyn's statements. You made an exceedingly clear statement against the use of HTFU on this forum, and yet you've decided to use it yourself. Poor show, man. Very poor show. We don't need you to make any apologies or take back anything you said, but you do need to know where your words have put you. Those four letters should be off limits to you.
It was said tongue in cheek, much like the beginning of my last post. Grow up, learn to recognize a jest and get over it.
Also, "Katacomb" is no longer ironic, given that the Catacombs actually have been renamed due to popular demand.
Well, I guess I missed the joke.
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Havo, stop posting. Seriously.
You're doing no favors to anyone right now, least of all yourself.
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For what it is worth, I can perfectly admit that I have myself a problem with a single point of the FAQ, which is
"Q: Isn't all this subjective?
A: Yes. The Mods do their best to be fair, but inevitably, this is a subjective standard. Another thing for you to Deal With."
And that I shall try to improve, as shown in the recent katacombed posts where after a certain bad personal experience with some of the mods, and a certain delusion and loss of trust, was not expecting anything anymore and got shown wrong. Well, it's sobering up, for sure.
As for Havohej, I have to echo Lyn's statements. You made an exceedingly clear statement against the use of HTFU on this forum, and yet you've decided to use it yourself. Poor show, man. Very poor show. We don't need you to make any apologies or take back anything you said, but you do need to know where your words have put you. Those four letters should be off limits to you.
It was said tongue in cheek, much like the beginning of my last post. Grow up, learn to recognize a jest and get over it.
What the ?
Apparently you are the only one to recognize it, and worse, using that as such a lame excuse is beyond words. Was it just a jest since the beginning then, when you told people with admin comments that HTFU is not an option ?
I'm not even reading the rest of this post. You know what makes it an obvious jest, for me to say that "We've been telling you to HTFU for years"? The fact that we haven't.
If you don't like the forum, fuck off. Simple as. I'm not feeding into your endless bullshit on Christmas morning. Happy New Year.
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Havo, stop posting. Seriously.
You're doing no favors to anyone right now, least of all yourself.
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For what it is worth, I can perfectly admit that I have myself a problem with a single point of the FAQ, which is
"Q: Isn't all this subjective?
A: Yes. The Mods do their best to be fair, but inevitably, this is a subjective standard. Another thing for you to Deal With."
And that I shall try to improve, as shown in the recent katacombed posts where after a certain bad personal experience with some of the mods, and a certain delusion and loss of trust, was not expecting anything anymore and got shown wrong. Well, it's sobering up, for sure.
As for Havohej, I have to echo Lyn's statements. You made an exceedingly clear statement against the use of HTFU on this forum, and yet you've decided to use it yourself. Poor show, man. Very poor show. We don't need you to make any apologies or take back anything you said, but you do need to know where your words have put you. Those four letters should be off limits to you.
It was said tongue in cheek, much like the beginning of my last post. Grow up, learn to recognize a jest and get over it.
What the ?
Apparently you are the only one to recognize it, and worse, using that as such a lame excuse is beyond words. Was it just a jest since the beginning then, when you told people with admin comments that HTFU is not an option ?
I'm not even reading the rest of this post. You know what makes it an obvious jest, for me to say that "We've been telling you to HTFU for years"? The fact that we haven't.
If you don't like the forum, fuck off. Simple as. I'm not feeding into your endless bullshit on Christmas morning. Happy New Year.
Sure, if you have nothing more insightful to answer and calling it bullshit instead, fine by me. Its not the forum I don't like. Don't confuse the obvious.
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Havo, stop posting. Seriously.
You're doing no favors to anyone right now, least of all yourself.
Nope. I mean, yes, I'm about to stop posting because I'm getting dragged to my sister-in-law's house in about 20 minutes, but to the sentiment, no.
ModDisc has always stood as the one board on this forum with much looser standards, so that people can get their problems with the board and its moderation off their chest without fear of reprisal - within reason. Which is why the post directly above this one stands without danger of moderation or even being reported by anyone. And I'm not aware of anyone having been warned or banned pursuant to a post on this board. However, it must be understood that this goes both ways. This is the land of honest, non-sugar-coated answers.
Lyn has a long history of singling out one person and reporting a bunch of little nit-picky things that aren't even anywhere near mod-worthy posts, and this has been tolerated for a long time, no matter how annoying or disruptive.
Now Lyn wants to take absurd tongue-in-cheek remarks and make big news item issues out of them, and it's like... really?
Well, that answer to that "really?" is "No." We're not doing this anymore.
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Fair enough, but I think you're overdoing it.
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Y'all (everyone) should stop posting for 36-48 hours and go enjoy Christmas. Blow off some steam, drink some booze, eat too much food and get some perspective. The current bitter arguing benefits no one. Across this thread and the other one.
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Good lord, people.
Hav-o, relax mate!
Lyn, maybe let it go or mail mods privately about some of those issues? Starting threads on this stuff seldom works ( I know)
Miz, being less aggressively argumentative wouldn't hurt you either.
Kal wins thread.
Morwen, hugs.
Kat.....kats.
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Lyn, maybe let it go or mail mods privately about some of those issues? Starting threads on this stuff seldom works ( I know)
Maybe I should start doing it again, though Silver has disappeared. :|
Thanks for the tip. I think i'm doing it horribly wrong most of the time.
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Kat.....kats.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.
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I'm around, just extremely, extremely busy. And what little time I have I have difficulty allocating much of it to Backstage at the moment. It should get a little better soon here, though.
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FWIW: I have noticed a decline in politeness on this board as well. I hope that the holidays allow everyone to get some relief of last years stress and that we can start fresh and in old, more polite form into the new year.
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You know the funny thing? People like Anslo, who openly defy and mock the rules and community, are the least of the offenders. There's a lot of egregious violations in the Katacombs, and from people who should (and do) know better.
No joke. I am legit surprised if this is true. I just calls ish as I see's ish is all. I would never mock you kat <3
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And if it IS true....holy shit people that is just sad.
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I'm nice