Backstage - OOC Forums
Archives => Katacombs => Topic started by: Synthia on 16 Dec 2014, 12:42
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On the IGS recently, a character made a remark about another character. That remark was inaccurate, and I knew this to be the case, because Synthia happened to be at the event at which the alleged incident occurred, as were many other players, and a CCP event actor.
So I wrote a clarification on what did actually happen, from Synthia's point of view of the events that occurred within Synthia's line of sight.
Then, to my great surprise, I received an evemail from the character about who the remark was made, who said that they had been told, by none other than CCP themselves, that the event (an event run by a player), was "non-canon", and "never happened".
Which I found somewhat surprising.
Because this was the first I've heard of it, despite being at that event, as were dozens of other players.
Where does this leave the history that many player characters have, which includes interaction with CCP event actor characters ?
Example: Synthia interacted with several event actor characters - evemailing the Khanid Navy admiral to wish King Khanid a happy birthday. If CCP event actor actions are to be considered non-canon, then what does that mean ?
As it turns out, this is not the first interaction that I have had with characters who stated that events had never occurred. There was a previous occasion where a character stated that a particular event "never happened", because they "ret-conned it". Although in that case, it appeared to be just themselves who were "ret-conning" something, and not claiming that it was CCP who were behind it.
So, to what extent is public RP, unilaterally retconnable, by a single involved person ?
To me, the whole idea of saying "this never happened", without 100% agreement from all the people who were there, is completely alien and baffling
Redacted.
*Havo wuz herre.
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Do they/we have any evemails or forum posts indicating that CCP has actually taken this position? I know that it's been said CCP Actors will not do anything in player run channels anymore, but this is the first I've heard of them redacting those previous interactions.
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Can you be more specific? What event? What ccp character actor?
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And then True Slave Foundations stole a table.
Also this entire topic is hilarious flamebait and is going to be cast down into the abyss by the Great and Mighty Havohej, keeper of the Katacombs, to be gnawed forever by the Mizhoggur.
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Doesn't need to be flamebait, if we all be adults and discuss it!
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Yes that event did happen, things at that event did happen, witnessed by many.
If people chose to be there, then they were there. That's why public RP is important, because we make decisions with social ramifications.
So if someone did something they didn't like, then use it as character building and deal with it how your character would.
It's not a win/loss scenario, it's community storytelling.
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yeah, it's not like they retconned Colelie just because event actors talked on The Summit
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... to be gnawed forever by the Mizhoggur.
This may be the coolest thing anyone's ever said about me.
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yeah, it's not like they retconned Colelie just because event actors talked on The Summit
given how that event was received by lots of players, maybe they should have.
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[admin]Reviewed. Feels borderline. Everything so veil. Much obscure. Such secret. Wow. Clarify the OP and avoid assigning motives or casting aspersions while you do it. If the actual topic of discussion isn't actually crystal clear in an hour's time, I'm Katacombing the whole thing.[/admin]
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Actually this sits in my area of interest.....i created Federation Day years ago....and CCP never actually gave a nod of approval as cannon...but there were plenty of actors and mission texts that do indeed recognized it as a part of the eve universe, albeit indirectly.
If suddenly CCP backpedal from that...not sure how to take it.
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Reviewed. Feels borderline. Everything so veil. Much obscure. Such secret. Wow. Clarify the OP and avoid assigning motives or casting aspersions while you do it. If the actual topic of discussion isn't actually crystal clear in an hour's time, I'm Katacombing the whole thing.
topics have been clarified.
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A character made a remark about a character and some things happened.
I have no fucking clue what this thread is about.
Who said what where why how when, are we talking about the fucking Illuminati here?
[admin](http://goodlogo.com/images/logos/illuminati_logo_3317.gif)[/admin]
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[admin]Unprecedented things happening ITT. Resurrected from the Katacombs and unlocked.[/admin]
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LORD HAVOHEJ....
FEED ME.
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After reading a bit and coming to balanced point of view on the issue, i would say the following.....there was an CCP actor in the player event....that cannot be "undone" other players saw it, the regulation from CCP that no such things should happen has been noted and cleared to a degree that such things will never happen again (for anyone in any foreseeable future).
But i cannot unilaterally retcon such an event without some form of agreement with all the other players....everyone agreeing that the event had the misfortune of falling out of CCP regulations....
Since CCP has not come around to say which events pass regulations and which doesnt....i don't feel being invested in any authority to say to someone else if A or B are not valid and therefore out of "reality".
However, i do feel that dwelling too much into this discussion might be counter-productive because people have invested time and effort into the events...and just labeling them as cannon/non-cannon will most likely incite agigated comments from all parties.
savvy?
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Not to put too fine a point on it... This goes back to an old argument of mine with public rp and consequences:
If your character is going to get shit on for doing a thing, being at a thing, or saying a thing, think about that before doing the thing.
If you are an amarr loyalist, don't show up to a matari freedom fighter jamyl efegee burning ceremony unless you are prepared for social consequences.
There are tons of fun events and rp venues that our characters shouldn't be at, or if they are at have to deal with social repercussions.
Its the sometimes unfun part of having a character that picks a side on things.
S. Couldn't be in any Amarr channel for more than thirty seconds without getting booted and banned. Did that suck? Yes, I missed tons of great amarr events and fun social rp stuff I'd have loved to attended IC.
Them's the breaks. S. went to a Revan event as a noob amarr loyalist once without telling loyalist rp corpies. It was majorly frowned on and super not OK IC. I wasn't important enough for anyone at the party to blackmail me but attendance did happen and that would be valid possible outcome.
If the person we've been discussing is unhappy with things that happened treat it like real people do. Lie, say they were drunk, under the influence, whatever, and that it isn't a big deal to them.
Having non optimal things happen to our characters is actually a good thing. Losing fights, being embarrassed, being called out in public. We can't all be all optimal all the time and never lose face.
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After reading a bit and coming to balanced point of view on the issue, i would say the following.....there was an CCP actor in the player event....that cannot be "undone" other players saw it, the regulation from CCP that no such things should happen has been noted and cleared to a degree that such things will never happen again (for anyone in any foreseeable future).
Pretty much this. Otherwise the ret cons hit catastrophic levels.
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Indeed, aside from a handful of extreme circumstances public events - whether CCP attended or purely player - cannot be unilaterally retconned, only discarded with the mutual okay of all involved. I would very much like to see proof of the claim on CCP's position on the matter; otherwise, calling shenanigans.
Even more confusing to me than the retconning thing is the apparent idea that a CCP character "should not have been at an event", when CCP characters continue to show up regularly at player-led events. I was very much hoping this meant CCP had decided to relax its idiotic rule on player event participation, and I will be highly disappointed if they go through a relapse on this.
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Basically, one person is mad that they and/or their character did some (possibly dumb) thing at an event that involved interaction with an event actor character, and that said thing has resulted in less-than-positive reputation/consequences/image for them and/or their character.
There's a phrase for that in EVE. Four letters, starts with H, ends with TFU, I think?
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Basically, one person is mad that they and/or their character did some (possibly dumb) thing at an event that involved interaction with an event actor character, and that said thing has resulted in less-than-positive reputation/consequences/image for them and/or their character.
There's a phrase for that in EVE. Four letters, starts with H, ends with TFU, I think?
Or is it STFU? ;)
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Basically, one person is mad that they and/or their character did some (possibly dumb) thing at an event that involved interaction with an event actor character, and that said thing has resulted in less-than-positive reputation/consequences/image for them and/or their character.
There's a phrase for that in EVE. Four letters, starts with H, ends with TFU, I think?
Or is it STFU? ;)
It needs an H.
"Havohej told Jimmy-Jo to STFU."
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Basically, one person is mad that they and/or their character did some (possibly dumb) thing at an event that involved interaction with an event actor character, and that said thing has resulted in less-than-positive reputation/consequences/image for them and/or their character.
There's a phrase for that in EVE. Four letters, starts with H, ends with TFU, I think?
Or is it STFU? ;)
Both work, really. HTFU would imply a desire for the party in question to STFU about it and take their lumps, in fairness.
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Okay, I've read the thread... now what the hell is it about?
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Okay, I've read the thread... now what the hell is it about?
Andreus getting locked in the closet by a blood raider actor...I think.
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Okay, I've read the thread... now what the hell is it about?
I ran an event some years ago, visited by a CCP Actor. Interactions were had. We laughed, we cried, tables were stolen and there were exploding clothing-eating nanite bombs apparently.
Ahem.
Post-event, some of those interactions were IC 'embarassing' for certain characters, who ((based on Synthia's statements only, mind you)) are attempting a retroactive retcon 'that didn't happen' sort of thing.
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Hmkay. I've got exactly zero input to offer other than signing up for the newsletter of the clothes eating nanite bomb supplier.
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Hmkay. I've got exactly zero input to offer other than signing up for the newsletter of the clothes eating nanite bomb supplier.
That was Istvaan's thing.
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Hmkay. I've got exactly zero input to offer other than signing up for the newsletter of the clothes eating nanite bomb supplier.
That was Istvaan's thing.
HIS NAME SHALL NOT BE SPOKEN.
TRAITOROUS DOG.
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Okay, I've read the thread... now what the hell is it about?
it's about things like, you know that 1000:1 thing ? that you and havo and zuzanna and people were all involved in ?
and one of the involved doesn't feel like having it mentioned anymore ? So they say "i retconned it", and refuse to acknowledge it at all, when someone brings it up ?
what would you reply to that happening to you ?
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"Okay, this person is either lying for some reason or have some odd recollection of past events. Huh."
Besides, I'm IC inundated with claims about what I did or didn't do during Thousand to One that haven't even got a passing resemblance to what actually happened. Hell, OOC too. It happens.
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CCP can say whatever they damn well please, but if they think that they can ret-con the experiences of players, they're confusing themselves with the Ministry of Love.
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CCP can say whatever they damn well please, but if they think that they can ret-con the experiences of players, they're confusing themselves with the Ministry of Love.
2+2=5, Vikarion.
:psyccp:
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LORD HAVOHEJ....
FEED ME.
[admin]It's come to the Staff's attention that the information which enabled this thread to be resurrected (I.E.: the excerpt from a private Eve-mail) was shared in violation of Rule 7.[/admin]