Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Saxon Hawke on 19 May 2010, 13:39
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Okay, there is a thread limping along on the Intergalactic Summit concerning how 2 million people could be removed from a planet in an hour.
The methodology is important to Saxon for several reasons. First, the Ostingele colony was one of those the IPI recognizes as part of "Intaki Space" — what he envisions as the future Intaki State. In his mind, those 2 million people were his countrymen and for them to be gone in nearly the blink of an eye is startling.
In the larger sense, he is concerned about the same thing happening elsewhere. Perhaps even the Intaki homeworld. (Nation has made two assaults on the sister world of Intaki IV already)
One suggestion put forth was that "short range teleportation devices (such as the type used to transport items from space to ship cargo holds) are being used to abduct the civilian populations."
I wasn't aware of teleportation technology being used in Eve. Anyone got any Prime Fiction sources to back this up?
Anyone who wants to join in the thread can find it here (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1320002)
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I was under the impression that the <2500m range thing for opening containers was small tractor beams for manipulating things.
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I also assumed it was for electromagnets or some other type of mechanical grapple. I've never heard of anything being teleported.
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what was the thing, that caused a Jovian dude to explode?
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I seem to recall hearing something about how matter transmission in EVE was possible, just really easy to intercept/corrupt/whatever. No idea if that's correct or now though.
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Mining lasers work by vaporizing rock into its constituent molecules an then reassembling, which is teleportation, of a sort. Obviously no good for human use.
No working teleportation, unless the Sanshas have made great strides, cause the last time was indeed the Jovian dude, that got himself spattered across the entire cluster.
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Two million is indeed a staggering number for such a short amount of time.
The suggestions of infiltration by Nation agents, long-term societal manipulation, coordination of planetside events involving mass gatherings, sabotage of planetary defenses, and well-prepared landing zones for the dropships add up in total to a viable explanation in my eyes. Two million, as in the case at Ostingele, may be a figure that describes their maximum possible haul in a situation where everything went according to the Sansha plan and then some.
Teleportation just doesn't fit EVE tech, and I personally find the above explanations much more chilling than the people Star Trek-style beamed up or even being melted down into DNA. These incursions and mass kidnappings are the kind of operation that would take, say, one hundred years to properly set up... My hope is that we'll eventually come to learn (as players if not IC) that the Nation has been working toward this for a very long time.
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I understand Eve is trying to be the ultimate sci-fi sim and all that, but if teleporters are ever added to lore I might end myself.
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There's a chronicle, mentions using "salvage drones" to take things from wrecks.
http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul01-02
There's also how the ship in the Empyrean Age was doing stuff, which was with a winch and crane, and things.
Or the salvager module, which does something too.
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No teleportation needed.
Two thousand ships with four thousand soldiers, each running out of the ship, grabbing one arm of a person with their kidnapping buddy and running back into the ship.
Perhaps Sansha are even so uber that they have stun guns that they can use to fire into a crowd and then they just gather the living bodies.
It almost makes sense!
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The answer is obvious, really. The Sanshas bait the dirtlings with the promise of candy, and then fly off with them.
It works every time.
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The answer is obvious, really. The Sanshas bait the dirtlings with the promise of candy, and then fly off with them.
It works every time.
I think you may be on to something
(http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx194/saxonhawke/free_candy_vanthumbnail.jpg)
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I think that the dropships don't acually land but hover over cities and use tractor beams on anyone out in the open.
And I have the footage to prove it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ply6ULY9Gdk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ply6ULY9Gdk)
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I think that the dropships don't acually land but hover over cities and use tractor beams on anyone out in the open.
And I have the footage to prove it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ply6ULY9Gdk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ply6ULY9Gdk)
:D
Also: Homer speaking Spanish was a slight wtf moment there. :)
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I think the more likely explanation is that CCP picks big numbers that don't often make sense. :) Teleportation has never been mentioned in anything I've read -- it certainly would make a lot of other technologies pretty useless.
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Svetlana, I agree. But discussion (IC and OOC) is probably the best way to make sure they realize they should pay a bit more attention. Besides, who couldn't use a little more mystery in their lives? ;)
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Svetlana, I agree. But discussion (IC and OOC) is probably the best way to make sure they realize they should pay a bit more attention. Besides, who couldn't use a little more mystery in their lives? ;)
I guess. On the other hand, Sanshas raiding a planet and taking 12 people wouldn't really have the punch they're looking for (unlike say, Seyllin, where I think 500 million didn't make sense, but even something more reasonable like 5-10 million would have been pretty horrific). Part of the problem is that combat is so "short" in Eve, so you can't really have the Sanshas carrying out a multi-day (or even multi-hour) operation to snatch people. Similar to my problem with the timeline presented in TEA about the Caldari invasion, it probably takes longer than 5-10 minutes to safely get from high orbit to the ground in any sort of transport -- if you assume it takes just as long to get back up, you need a pretty big window just to land, spend 15 minutes grabbing people (even that seems awful short, since most people are not going to stick around if a Sansha dropship lands in their back yard) and fly off.
In this case, I'm willing to grant some artistic license, but I do wish there was a little more thought put behind this sort of thing. :) A chronicle about one of these raids might shed some light on the whole matter too.
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Iirc, the only ones that ever understood physics well enough to manage teleportation were the Enheduanni (but then again, they'd nearly finished science). I can't remember where I read it, or I'd link the relevant information, sorry.
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Well, 2.5 million people use the London Underground every day, with opening hours being between 5:30am and 1am. That's eighteen hours, give or take. of course, it's not fully laden for that entire duration - the bulk of passengers travel in the rush hours, between 7am-9:30am and 4:30pm-6:30pm.
So a reasonable estimate would be that the London underground can move two million people in about four hours. that's 500,000 people per hour, at capacity.
all of which means that the Sansha dropship force, not accounting for losses from engaging the navies in low orbit, would be a logistical undertaking four or five times the size of the Tube.
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Well, 2.5 million people use the London Underground every day, with opening hours being between 5:30am and 1am. That's eighteen hours, give or take. of course, it's not fully laden for that entire duration - the bulk of passengers travel in the rush hours, between 7am-9:30am and 4:30pm-6:30pm.
So a reasonable estimate would be that the London underground can move two million people in about four hours. that's 500,000 people per hour, at capacity.
all of which means that the Sansha dropship force, not accounting for losses from engaging the navies in low orbit, would be a logistical undertaking four or five times the size of the Tube.
See? Those easy-to-read London Underground maps were a terrible idea. They make it easy for them nasty Sansha types to abduct Londoners. :P Wait...doesn't sound too bad actually. House prices in the home counties might go down too... ;)
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Well, 2.5 million people use the London Underground every day, with opening hours being between 5:30am and 1am. That's eighteen hours, give or take. of course, it's not fully laden for that entire duration - the bulk of passengers travel in the rush hours, between 7am-9:30am and 4:30pm-6:30pm.
So a reasonable estimate would be that the London underground can move two million people in about four hours. that's 500,000 people per hour, at capacity.
all of which means that the Sansha dropship force, not accounting for losses from engaging the navies in low orbit, would be a logistical undertaking four or five times the size of the Tube.
As another data point, prior to Hurricane Katrina, the population of New Orleans was roughly 450,000 people, and it took weeks to evacuate everyone from the city. Yeah, the numbers are a little silly, but as I said before, I think they are somewhat constrained by the realities of the game, where an hours or days long pitched battle is not likely.
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Sansha plop down, unleash giant stun bomb, scoop everyone up with a giant vacuum cleaner.
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I understand Eve is trying to be the ultimate sci-fi sim and all that, but if teleporters are ever added to lore I might end myself.
This.
Consider this a suicide pact if teleportation is added.
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Sansha plop down, unleash giant stun bomb, scoop everyone up with a giant vacuum cleaner.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5993/megamaidspaceballs.jpg)
He's onto us sir.
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Sansha plop down, unleash giant stun bomb, scoop everyone up with a giant vacuum cleaner.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5993/megamaidspaceballs.jpg)
He's onto us sir.
Sansha has gone from suck to blow!
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something to keep in mind, is that the numbers were definitely, definitely tweaked to make the events go fast enough to be reasonable.
For those of you who recall Seyllin, I think they were able to save maybe 500,000 thousand and they had hours in which to do it.
When you think about it, there is evidence everywhere that the eve universe in fiction, is not the same universe in game. Even just looking at some missions (recon 1-3 specifically on my mind) the rules of the universe are rather different storywise then they are gamewise, Its just something you generally have to live with.