Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Senn Typhos on 12 May 2010, 20:46
-
One of my major confusions in the EVE universe, which has yet to be answered in any decent manner, is if there is any reasonable correlation between the character advancement system everyone and their momma is familiar with, namely "levels," and the system in place in EVE, "SP."
For example, in my previous dealings, there were basic levels of competency; you start out at one, don't matter until 30, guilds don't need you until you're 50, and at some level cap or another, you can qualify for anything you don't suck at.
Can some of the veterans offer some comparisons, so I can start swinging my mind's focus from the former system to the latter? Case in point, when is it appropriate for me to start seeking a corporation? When does my likelihood of being filled with superdense antimatter rounds upon entering lowsec fall from "unavoidable" to "slightly more avoidable?" (I fly an exploration ship, my survival rate ain't high).
If anyone has any advice to offer, it would be much appreciated. Thank you for your time. :3
-
It doesn't really compare. One may regard that as fortunate or unfortunate (I certainly believe the former).
You should start seeking a corp right away. You may not be able to join until a character has passed the two week age limit, however, as most corps don't want trial accounts. Beyond that, lots of corps take new pilots as trainees, so find one willing to teach.
I always recommend spending lots of time in lowsec right away. You'll learn good habits that will serve you well in the future, and if you're in a frigate, most gate camps won't catch you.
-
To answer the first bit, I suppose what I can offer as an explanation of this very thread is this; I love the freedom of the EVE system, but I'm terrible with choosing a direction. That being said, I'm done with the whole "get to the last level and then start playing the game" thing. >>
My character is about 30 days old if I remember correctly. Primarily, I'm waiting until I decide on a solid character before I go looking for a corp - I'm really only interested in finding one that's at least receptive to RP, if not heavily engaged in the practice.
The lowest I've gone thus far is 0.5 in my Cormorant. What I learned in that system (the name of which I forget) is that if you feel like a pirate is watching you, you're correct. I warped out of an asteroid belt in time to see a red-skull marked Vexor warp in and deploy drones, and thank my jittery FPS sniper senses for paying off in other games.
I also let out a girlish squeak of despair, but I like to leave that part out.
-
We won't discuss the girlish squeaking, but you'll get over that. :D
As you've noticed, EVE provides a "sandbox" open world experience, rather than the "theme park" of WoW and similar games. You have no prescribed path except the one you choose to blaze (or follow, as the case may be).
If you haven't taken time yet to explore the wiki (http://wiki.eveonline.com), you really should -- lots of good information there. And don't feel like a character can only do one or two things: not only does EVE not have levels, it doesn't have classes. My character started out as a bit of a space trucker (something she still does because, well, the ISK is good), but since then she's developed substantial research, manufacturing, and exploration skills and can handle herself pretty well in combat as needed. Just for reference (because some folks have 3x the SP), I have just shy of 40m SP.
So, by all means, start doing something you enjoy, but don't feel like it's a choice you have to keep: we don't respec, we just train more skills...
-
Well, the SP-Levels comparison is an easy one to fall into, but it is largely entirely false.
Skills mostly just open up options. They give you more things to fly, maybe a bit more flexibility in what you put on them. Even the skills that increase some particular stat across all ship largely max out at 25%.
So, you can't fit every module right away, and you can't fly every ship, and you have a fraction (25% or less) less in a few stats than my character (after a length of time playing on my part that hardly bears thinking about.) A few fairly new players in inexpensive ships can easily take on a solo vet in anything sub-capital, in most cases, and win.
What really tells - and takes time to acquire - is player knowledge and skill. What do do in a situation. How to fit a ship effectively. Where you can go and can't go. What effective ways of making ISK are. (ISK, up to a certain point, is much closer to representing 'levels' than SP is. ISK is what decides what you can afford to fly, and what you can afford to fit it with.)
When you go to low sec (Low sec starts at .4, and goes to .1 - in .5 and up, people can't attack you with getting CONCORDed unless you do something to allow them to, like taking something out of a can that belongs to them) it isn't how old your character is that determines if you are going to survive. It is if you, the player, know how to survive there.
And not to worry: There are guides, and when you are new, the price of your mistakes is usually fairly low, though it may not always seem that way at the time. The player skill will come with playing.
As for SP, and training, you should set a goal. Decide something you want to do. A good initial goal might be getting into a Battlecruiser, for example. Find out what you need to train, and train for it.
Anyway, if you have questions or anything and I'm around IG, feel free to ask, or PM me here.
And I would try to find a *good* corporation fairly soon. A good corporation can make the game for you, and a bad one can really drag it down. 30 days in is plenty to start looking.
-
I'm only just pressing 2mil at the time of writing, and as with all games before this one, I've scanned through the wikis, battleclinic, item databases, and whatever profession guides I could find, while I'm waiting to break into the deeper millions. I've tried missioning and rat combat, hauling, and exploration.
At this point, my best success, and easily the most fun I've had in a long, long time, is wandering aimlessly though hisec with my composite Caracal, scanning down a system, and seeing what I find. In the ship I fly, I can probe, salvage, hack, break archaeology scans, and take out tiny rats around radar sites and such. I'm enjoying a self-proclaimed natural affinity for scanning.
I'm sure once I get my sea legs (space legs? >>) I'll start dipping into PvP. Even though I've heard purported evidence that the bounty system is broken, I could see my wee lil Senn being a hunter-killer with scanning under my belt. If I can find a corp that I can serve with that skill, all the better, I suppose.
Thanks for the advice again. :3
-
Well, BC or HAC exploration in low sec is viable. You just gotta watch out for those pesky (player) pirates. Might be something to have an eye toward. For PvP, I would recommend starting in tech 1 frigates. Be ready to lose a lot of them. :P (Same advice for initial forays into low sec.)
-
You can certainly go anti-pirate without necessarily becoming a bounty hunter per se. And if you're enjoying exploration, I highly recommend joining the, um, "Exploration" channel. As long as you're asking smart questions after having done the research (like you're doing here), then you'll get lots of friendly advice and banter. And while spamming isn't allowed, asking every once in a while for exploration corps recruiting will help.
I should note that, at this point, you might not get a lot of interest from W-space corps. But K-space of any sort (including null sec) will have many organizations interested in a freshfaced young pilot like you.
-
2m SP... I've got a bit over 30m SP at the moment, but I still look back on 2m sp as Havo's 'glory days' of lowsec solo frigate/cruiser piracy. I died a lot.. but I killed some too and had a blast :)
-
@Silver, currently I'm trying to formulate a decent BC to take into low sec (actually, you can see it right here in its 8th update: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/38771-Multipurpose-Exploration-Ferox.html). It's the least expensive, but most adaptive thing I've produced so far. There are other ships that can do the job better, but I have a soft spot for Caldari ships I just can't explain. Plus, I just prefer shield tanking and hybrid guns in my limited experience.
And to Casiella, I had no idea there was an exploration channel. :O I'm not even totally solid on how a corporation would benefit off of my exploration skills. >>
Although I've never entered a wormhole, I've found like 500 of them. Plenty of grav and ladar sites. The ones I can actually use are always the hardest to find. But when I do, I love the payoff. I've made 40mil in the last three weeks finding user manuals, tuning instructions, that kinda stuff from radar sites. Way more than I made on missions and way more fun. XD
-
If you are interested in exploring the industrial side of Eve, LDIS is always recruiting. :twisted:
Ok, recruitment pitch aside, if you need anything, or advice, just chat me up in-game.
-
How an exploration corp would use you? Another hand in scanning is good. Another scout is good. An extra bit of DPS is good. An Osprey pilot with remote shield reps is good. A Blackbird pilot with some ECM knowledge is good.
You get the idea. You're not as ineffective as you think you are. :)
-
How an exploration corp would use you? Another hand in scanning is good. Another scout is good. An extra bit of DPS is good. An Osprey pilot with remote shield reps is good. A Blackbird pilot with some ECM knowledge is good.
You get the idea. You're not as ineffective as you think you are. :)
That's a switch. :O
I do have a minor infatuation with the concept of EWAR. My first choice of paths was a Rokh sniper, but I think I'll leave that alone until I actually get some PvP in and see what I'm good at in the first place.
-
If you have PvP in mind, I strongly, strongly suggest taking up either the Amarr or Minmatar line, and if you prefer solo fights, the Gallente line. Caldari does have some PvP-capable ships, but CCP's insistence on making shield transporters impossible to fit reduces their utility in small gangs, and in large fleets missile boats are near-worthless.
-
Caldari do have some of the most annoying PvP ships in the game though. Like the Falcon, or the lol220kmcloakyCerberus.
-
Everybody loves the concept of electronic warfare when they join. It's handy stuff, and not too difficult to train to a moderately-useful level.
-
Everybody loves the concept of electronic warfare when they join. It's handy stuff, and not too difficult to train to a moderately-useful level.
Correction: they like it until they realize that "Electronic Warfare Operator" is just a fancy way of saying "Primary". :P
-
Everybody loves the concept of electronic warfare when they join. It's handy stuff, and not too difficult to train to a moderately-useful level.
Correction: they like it until they realize that "Electronic Warfare Operator" is just a fancy way of saying "Primary". :P
Can't shoot ya if they can't target ya :P
-
That's why Blackbirds are great: cheap to replace.
-
Well, I hate to bring up FPS games twice in the same post, but the only thing I play there is a sniper, so I'm used to a field full of pissed off maniacs with large guns trying to find the guy making their day worse. So being a primary isn't that alien a concept to me. That being said, again, no point trying to swim when I'm not in the pool. Who knows, I might try out PvP and discover I'm a fantastic close-range killer here.
Probably not, just a thought. X3
-
Well, I hate to bring up FPS games twice in the same post, but the only thing I play there is a sniper, so I'm used to a field full of pissed off maniacs with large guns trying to find the guy making their day worse. So being a primary isn't that alien a concept to me. That being said, again, no point trying to swim when I'm not in the pool. Who knows, I might try out PvP and discover I'm a fantastic close-range killer here.
Probably not, just a thought. X3
Sounds a lot like the classic cloaky-gang in some 0.0 alliance's turf. Drives them crazy.
-
I think the big thing to remember is that unlike level-based games, a character in Eve can start performing useful functions in a corp (even a PvP corp) within the first few weeks of play. Yes, some corps have skill point requirements, but honestly that's more to make sure that the player's skills (not the character's) are practiced and that the person is likely to stick around a while. When I was in charge of CAIN's recruitment, skill points made little or no difference to whether I was interested in the person for the corp -- I was mostly looking for someone who was mature and wanted to learn, rather than someone who was a hotshot pilot.
The way the skill system works, generally older characters have a broader skill set, not a deeper one. Svetlana has close to 90M SP now I think, but I'm still not as good in an interceptor as someone who has been focused on that role for 6 months and has the practice with that ship to use it right. Don't let your inexperience keep you from looking for a place to go.
-
I think there is something that was added to resemble the levels of other games.
That is the certificates.
They're just basically achievements that you get for completing a set of skillsets, corporations could use them as requirements for joining them but I doubt it used as anything else than another way of measuring your epeen, especially since you can make your certificates public I think?
-
Some corps do use them for recruitment; I know I did in the past, and I've seen quite a few. And I've seen others use them as requirements for specific combat roles within their organizations.
-
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but don't let people fool you, skillpoints aren't overly important.
You'll hear a lot from people, and may occasionally get to feel as such yourself, that you will never "catch up" to other people because you only have a few million skillpoints and other people have 20million or more. Thing about it is if you focus your direction for just 3-4 weeks, you are equal to them in the ship you've focussed on.
Let me explain.
Let's say you decide you want to be a battlecruiser pilot. You build up for them, and spend some weeks or maybe a month or so training specifically the skills to pilot a Drake. So you've got Lillith here with 28-30mil SPs (I forget which, ahaha), and you've got 8mil SPs. Seems like a huge divide, right? Well it's really not, because in that Battlecruiser only six million SPs are actually in current use.
Someone here said it just gives you more options, and that's what it means. On top of flying my Drake, I have the option of about 6 or 7 other ship classes spanning 2 nation's types.
But in the Drake, you and I would be even.
So focus is key early on. Decide what you want to do and do it.
I think Silver's on to something, you sound like a cloaky-gang type person.
-
Join something like EVE-Uni corp. Go try everything, you never know what you might like. For your first ship, skill up for an interceptor, I still use these things as my main ship and it only takes like a month to skill for it. And I've been playin for yearz. ^_^
If you can learn to fly an Inty, you can learn to fly anything. ^_^
-
Thanks a lot for all the advice, everyone. I'm planning out a few certificate routes, and maybe in the next week or so I'll consider what kind of corp I'm looking for. I really appreciate the help! :3
-
Thing to remember is that, while a lot of corporations have SP-minimum requirements -- often for very good reasons, if they expect everyone to be battleship-capable, for example -- they will bend that for newbies who demonstrate the right mentality and an eagerness to get involved, listen, and learn from the more experienced members of the corp. Eve is a highly social game, and the best way to get into it and improve is to engage with others :)
-
Well, I hate to bring up FPS games twice in the same post, but the only thing I play there is a sniper, so I'm used to a field full of pissed off maniacs with large guns trying to find the guy making their day worse. So being a primary isn't that alien a concept to me. That being said, again, no point trying to swim when I'm not in the pool. Who knows, I might try out PvP and discover I'm a fantastic close-range killer here.
Probably not, just a thought. X3
Sniping is a bit more specialized in EVE and is rarely done solo. It's not common to see sniping setups (except certain ships like the Cerberus) in smaller fleet compositions. Proper battleship snipers require a certain critical mass to really do their job well, so you tend to see them a lot in the context of 0.0 sov conflict between alliances, but they aren't nearly as common elsewhere. The only other category of ships that really qualifies in the sniper role are the HACs (Muninn, Eagle, Zealot, Cerberus) and they are again reliant on numbers for their effectiveness. But that's all I'll say about the subject for now as it'd take far too long to explain it in detail. :P
Echoing Izzy's suggestion, join Eve-Uni. Seriously, if you're just looking around for a corp right now it can't hurt to join them and spend some time learning more about the game. They provide a good stepping stone for getting into other corps and alliances as well. It's a way to improve your resume if nothing else. ;)
-
Too bad they just teach you to carebear. ;)
-
Also, because you can't hide in a space battlefield (everybody can see you on their overview) unless you want to cloak and do nothing, EVE 'snipers' are more akin to designated marksmen: people who can just shoot you from really far away as opposed to sneaky bastards who you won't see until there's a bullet in your skull.
-
Also, because you can't hide in a space battlefield (everybody can see you on their overview) unless you want to cloak and do nothing, EVE 'snipers' are more akin to designated marksmen: people who can just shoot you from really far away as opposed to sneaky bastards who you won't see until there's a bullet in your skull.
Imma give you a high five for knowing the term "designated marksman."
<high five.>
-
Also, because you can't hide in a space battlefield (everybody can see you on their overview) unless you want to cloak and do nothing, EVE 'snipers' are more akin to designated marksmen: people who can just shoot you from really far away as opposed to sneaky bastards who you won't see until there's a bullet in your skull.
Imma give you a high five for knowing the term "designated marksman."
<high five.>
Uh, <high five>, but I'm in the military, so it's really not much of an accomplishment.
-
I didn't say it was an accomplishment, I just generally appreciate anyone with a military vocabulary.
-
Too bad they just teach you to carebear. ;)
Nah. If anything, they've upped their PvP roams into lowsec. Have seen a few come past me, and I've seen reference to them in a number of blogs.
They run some pretty large fleet ops.
-
Join something like EVE-Uni corp. Go try everything, you never know what you might like. For your first ship, skill up for an interceptor, I still use these things as my main ship and it only takes like a month to skill for it. And I've been playin for yearz. ^_^
If you can learn to fly an Inty, you can learn to fly anything. ^_^
/ditto; I <3 my Crow. And, inties are mainly a specialized version of the most basic pew pew role that anybody can do almost right out of the tutorial with T1 skills and equipment: tackle.
The best tip I've given friends is to avoid the Rocket Ravens!TM trap, where new players think knowing just the battleship skill is an I Win button and skill straight for it. Bigger isn't always better, and skilling for proper support and fitting is a must. But, it sounds like you've already realized that.
-
Interesting point I saw mentioned that I will re-hash - if you like RP, now is also the time to think about which direction RPly you might like to go, as the type of corp you wish to join might affect the ship type you fly.
I believe Grr's corp for example only fly amarrian hulls. Most members of Du'uma can fly cloaky and prefers smaller hulls. Most pilots in Starfraction I see fly battleships and battlecrusiers.
It might be worth thinking about. For me the RP angel is far more interesting then any actually skill training.
Oh, and in low-sec, always be ready to *spam* the warp button and you will rarely get podded if at all.
-
If you have PvP in mind, I strongly, strongly suggest taking up either the Amarr or Minmatar line, and if you prefer solo fights, the Gallente line. Caldari does have some PvP-capable ships, but CCP's insistence on making shield transporters impossible to fit reduces their utility in small gangs, and in large fleets missile boats are near-worthless.
My HAMGu says 'Bite Me.' :P
-
If you have PvP in mind, I strongly, strongly suggest taking up either the Amarr or Minmatar line, and if you prefer solo fights, the Gallente line. Caldari does have some PvP-capable ships, but CCP's insistence on making shield transporters impossible to fit reduces their utility in small gangs, and in large fleets missile boats are near-worthless.
My HAMGu says 'Bite Me.' :P
HAMgu is indeed a neat ship. However compared for example to a Thorax, Hurricane, Rupture or just to a Rifter it is far more skill and resource intensive to fly. So for his stage of player Tengu isn't really a viable option.
However, Caldari are not without solo capabilities. Drake can be a mean ship solo. Caracal has potential if you pick and choose your targets and Crows are pretty damm nice. Caldari ships just require somewhat more effort to fly these days, and it is true, you will have a bit wider palette to choose from for small gang and solo work with Minmatar or Amarr atm. If you go for solo work I would strongly recommend Minmatar, but I'm biased as a long time matarist :3
My perceptions on Caldari ships are based mostly on their performance in the gangs I fly and in the results my corp mates have with them. It's rare we field Battleships so I can't really speak for that class in Caldari ships.
PS. Everybody loves a Blackbird when it's on your side.