Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Aldrith Shutaq on 20 Mar 2013, 16:30
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http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74644
Shit be goin' down y'all.
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:D
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Sadly won't make be able to make it. Hopefully the livestream will be recorded for future viewing.
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I have no real idea how the Caldari Militia will be able to do anything for the event unless there's some sudden reveal...
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I have no real idea how the Caldari Militia will be able to do anything for the event unless there's some sudden reveal...
I think this is moderately clever of them. Instead of railroading things to happen no matter what, now they just set it up to where there is absolutely no possibility of success for one side. :P
There's no way for most Caldari RPers (having done missions for the State or being in FW) to go fight for the Titan. If more than a couple people show up to defend it, I'll be greatly surprised. On the ground, too, since CCP ran a big storyline about the Caldari trying to kill all the Dusties.
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I just mentioned this on Twitter, but the fact that this is right after downtime may be a clue here. There's some speculation in the TMC bullpen that this may mean Luminaire's security rating will be dropped to lowsec.
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I just mentioned this on Twitter, but the fact that this is right after downtime may be a clue here. There's some speculation in the TMC bullpen that this may mean Luminaire's security rating will be dropped to lowsec.
Falcon already stated in the original thread that they couldn't just "turn it off", and that we'd have to leave FW. Or implied as such. Hell, I'll just quote it:
Question - Will you be disabling the FW and sec status NPCs in Luminaire for this event?
CONCORD and the navies will still be on the prowl for those who choose to breach the Yulai Convention.
At the same time, trust me, you'll be able to shoot at eachother.
To clear up the most common question:
It's not physically possible to just "turn off" factional warfare NPCs, or the status of a system as a Factional Warfare system. Whether or not players decide they want to depart from the militia for a few days or not is entirely their own choice.
So yes. The Caldari are fucked, again. I'm starting to enjoy being right all the time. :P
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Why not see it as an opportunity to get involved rather than whine about some speculative inevitability?
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Why not see it as an opportunity to get involved rather than whine about some speculative inevitability?
Well, first, I can't get involved, since I'm in FW, and since I'm in FW, I have -10 Gallente standings even if I leave it, and why would I leave my corporation for a one-off CCP event anyway? Second, why do I want to engage in a hopeless battle? Third, why would I want to support CCP's live events, when they tend to be organized in such a way that we can't win, at terrible times for the players? Heck, last live event, the event actor who contacted us even directed us into Gallente space, and I had to run around trying to tell everyone it was at New Caldari.
No, thanks anyway.
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I just mentioned this on Twitter, but the fact that this is right after downtime may be a clue here. There's some speculation in the TMC bullpen that this may mean Luminaire's security rating will be dropped to lowsec.
Falcon already stated in the original thread that they couldn't just "turn it off", and that we'd have to leave FW. Or implied as such. Hell, I'll just quote it:
Question - Will you be disabling the FW and sec status NPCs in Luminaire for this event?
CONCORD and the navies will still be on the prowl for those who choose to breach the Yulai Convention.
At the same time, trust me, you'll be able to shoot at eachother.
To clear up the most common question:
It's not physically possible to just "turn off" factional warfare NPCs, or the status of a system as a Factional Warfare system. Whether or not players decide they want to depart from the militia for a few days or not is entirely their own choice.
So yes. The Caldari are fucked, again. I'm starting to enjoy being right all the time. :P
The second line makes it sufficiently vague I can't really see what the plan is.
Although the close proximity to downtime makes me wonder. There were rumors of some giant supergun built on Caldari Prime that will most likely be the target for the Dusties. Presuming this is true, the DUST battle for the supergun will determine if the Leviathan gets shot down? Or maybe weaken the Leviathan enough for Capsuleers to decide its fate...
I'm very curious how the DUST interaction will do anything as far as the ground-to-space part is concerned.
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Afternoon UTC on Friday - I will be at work.
Why not see it as an opportunity to get involved rather than whine about some speculative inevitability?
It will take a significant amount of effort to organize a sufficiently large Caldari loyalist fleet to 1) trigger all the faction spawns* (preferably away from the main battle) and 2) able to actually oppose everyone interested in being on the Caldari State Leviathan killmail.
*Is there a limit on Faction Spawns?
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If they lower the system to lowsec does that not remove the faction npc spawns from gates? I'm not up to date on that gameplay.
Also Vikarion how exactly does this fuck the Caldari, and how is it unwinnable?
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If they lower the system to lowsec does that not remove the faction npc spawns from gates? I'm not up to date on that gameplay.
Also Vikarion how exactly does this fuck the Caldari, and how is it unwinnable?
There is very little confidence that the security rating of Luminaire (1.0) and Algogille (0.9) are going to change.
This means anyone in the Caldari Militia or with -5 or less Federation Standing will trigger a high-strength Federation Navy NPC spawn (I do not know the limit on the number of spawns), twice.
So, in addition to any Federation loyalist, killmail opportunist, etc, there will also be the auto-generated Federation Navy NPC spawn that the Caldari players will need to deal with.
While years ago it was possible to conduct raids of opposing high-sec space I am pretty sure it utilized neutral logistics (Feds raiding Motsu was popular if I recall correctly). I know the neutral logistics tactic is no longer valid. I do not know if there are still those who conduct organized raids into high-sec.
All this adds up to a deck stacked against the Caldari from the start. Every possibility that any effort put into pushing against it is a waste and the Caldari lose Caldari Prime. Maybe it is self-fulfilling prophecy, maybe it isn't. I can't participate anyway.
All this being said, most of us have recognized the untenable position of actually securing Caldari Prime and it may even be captured in PF somewhere at this point as being recognized by the CN ages ago.
For RP purposes, it means that we lost home. I am not exactly sure what that means for everyone. For some characters it may mean "taking a long walk with the ancestors," for others permanent exile, for most probably no real change. But the response of some players/characters may very well be biomassing.
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What Orange said, Silas, in practical terms.
In RP terms, possessing CP is basically something (almost) every Caldari RPer supports. It's kind of necessary. It's also the only thing that Caldari RPers actually "got" from the whole TEA debacle. Sure, we lost the mega-corporate government, had the whole State ret-conned, have the Federation burning our low-sec systems to the ground, and are officially the nazis of the setting, but at least we got CP back. Well, now we don't get to have that either.
What can you tell a new player to entice them towards the Caldari side? Are we actually a shadow-run-ish setting? No, turns out that we're a fascist dictatorship. Are we at least a cool fascist dictatorship? No, Heth is a moron and is essentially an expy of Hitler, minus the amount of early success. Are we the most militarily successful faction? No, we're supposed to have the most capable navy, but the reality is that we aren't allowed to win anything even when we hold our own systems or take those of the enemy. Do we provide for our citizens? No, apparently we cram them all into dormitories and everyone spends all their spare isk on gambling (how this population supports a consumer sector is beyond me). Oh, and our society is racist, xenophobic, and anti-democratic. All of this, I note, is post-TEA ret-conning and etc. And I can source it.
But, eh, I can't be much motivated to care anymore. I'm mainly even complaining because it's either a last dying ember of concern, or because I find the writing of (legitimate) complaints fun. I'm still in Eve, but by the "where have you beens" I occasionally get, I can testify that I'm talking and doing less and less RP. The Caldari RP scene (lore, live events, and story) is pretty much a pile of shit that a few dedicated players are still trying to live with, and I think I'm done with that, even if I still like spaceships. I don't think it can be resurrected or salvaged at this point. I thought about joining the Blooders, but that doesn't make much sense for my character, and I imagine that CCP just hasn't gotten around to screwing them up yet. Plus, I still enjoy FW.
So, yes. To hell with their live events and story. I may not be able to do anything about where CCP shits on the story, but I don't have to stand under them when they do. :P
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I-RED will be hosting a fleet for this event.
Mails are being sent out.
Contact me if you want a copy of it and have not gotten one yet. Ostensibly, we'll be defending the titan... but since Heth will likely go batshit insane with it, we'll probably end up shooting it. Bring close range shield BCs.
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It does appear as a rather stacked one-sided battle. Both in space and on ground.
Unless some nullbear alliance get involved on the Provist side of course. But I do not foresee it if there is an option to get on a live event titan killmail.
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BAM right in my work day.
Oh well, prepping for 10 years of 'You didn't quit your job to turn up, so you're not a real Caldari supporter'.
As for the rest, I wish I didn't agree with Vikarion, Orange and Laerise (for the sake of the fiction, not because of the people mind you!) but my only hope is that CCP want to prove you all wrong. If not, your conjecture seems pretty solid to me :(.
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Pretty sure the last time anyone tried to organise enough people to shoot a Titan, there were plenty of Caldari supporters on the otherside endlessly RRing it so that it barely took damage.
That said, this is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy of "Oh CCP isn't going to let us win this, so let's not bother entering." Look at it this way, you've more chance of keeping it there, than the railroaded unstoppable plotline where the Gallente didn't get a chance to defend it's inception.
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The point is more 'we are completely locked out, either by standings or by FW allegiance (and by proxy, standings if they quit FW), leaving an entity that has claimed it will light up the titan (and rightly so by virtue of their roleplay direction) if it so much as glances at the planet the wrong way as the majority representation'.
As for me, it's the standard work day issue, but there's no helping that as CCP need the marketing this event will provide for PAX, GDC and other such events, and so putting it off till saturday would be self defeating in that regard. I'm not usually in the defeatism camp, but Vikarion et al. are making a lot of sense on this specific issue.
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Isn't there a limit to police spawns? I've recalled people tanking them before and letting other people slip through unhindered.
Sure you require a lot more logistical planning than the other side, but you're attempting an invasion in order to carry out a rescue operation. If CCP were to make some magical means to evade the consequences that come with the situation, that would be more railroading than the actual scenario as it's presented. For years the Caldari were given something for nothing in having it there storyline wise, and now you have to put in a bit of planning and effort in defending it?
Struggling to have sympathy here.
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Faction police response scales with security status, so 1.0 will be pretty horrendous, not to mention that the logistics of moving in the heavy assets to defend will be made virtually impossible by the speed with which scrambling occurs.
Your sympathy is not required, but at least be honest that you lack sympathy because things are going your way. It's a perfectly valid approach. A 'bit' of planning is somewhat of an injustice to the scale of the situation.
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A 'bit of planning' is an understatement.
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Look at it this way, you've more chance of keeping it there, than the railroaded unstoppable plotline where the Gallente didn't get a chance to defend it's inception.
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Look at it this way, you've more chance of keeping it there, than the railroaded unstoppable plotline where the Gallente didn't get a chance to defend it's inception.
Fallacious reasoning. A cut scene is more fun (and pretty) than turning up to a table top game to be told that today most of the group gets to ride Pegasi, but your mode of transport will be to do 'the worm' over caltrops and thumbtacks. The comparison is also void as live events were not a thing, and the inclusion of ANY player was not on the table.
I must reiterate that I am arguing in terms of 'I can see their (Vikarion, Orange et al.) point(s)'. I'll wait and see how the event goes to see if it validates their POV. Suffice to say it will take more than the titan being destroyed for me to cry foul - our collective love of big explosions is overwhelming, but the factors against the inclusion of arguably the biggest anti-federation bloc have raised some valid and insightful points.
Suffice to say, fair isn't a requirement (it'd be silly for everything to be balanced), but it must sting those rendered impotent to intervene in a vital aspect of their roleplay, when 'given the chance' at least informally.
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Your sympathy is not required, but at least be honest that you lack sympathy because things are going your way. It's a perfectly valid approach. A 'bit' of planning is somewhat of an injustice to the scale of the situation.
Nothing is going my way at all, well other than the opportunity to remove another of Tony G's terrible plothole legacies.
Also live events existed way before TEA and the cutscenes. Remember the Serpentis Titan?
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Remember the dead zone between Aurora and the Sansha events?
I'm not making things up just to attack your argument Cael.
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So, this is going to sound really callous to say but please hear me out, I'm not intending it to sound cold.
The reality of the situation is that it's supposed to be stacked against the Caldari. The Caldari grabbed Caldari Prime during a very precisely timed sneak attack when CONCORD was down and Tripwire was sabotaged. They know they can't hold it, that's the whole reason for the Titan and the threat of bombing civilians, it keeps the Federation at bay. If all-out conflict were to break out, the Caldari would have the odds stacked against them.
With all of that said, perhaps CCP is planning on spawning CalNav support to counter-balance the FedNav spawns? I'm pretty sure GMs can handle specific processes like that. I'm holding out hope that something has been worked out to level the playing field a bit for the players but I expect the odds to still be stacked against the Caldari, it's the reality of the situation. (I just hope "stacked against" doesn't mean "impossibly so and not fun at all").
I'd attend as Malcolm, but I'll be at work. :(
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Remember the dead zone between Aurora and the Sansha events?
I'm not making things up just to attack your argument Cael.
Point, but still, for years the other side of the fence has had to deal with railroaded RP plotline after another. Remember what kicked all this off with the Broker, Noir and a suicidal Nyx. The chance to actually do something in game this time for either side is far better than having another cutscene and "Oh the titan blew up/glassed a planet/grew arms and danced the macarena"
Because if the above happened without player involvement, the crying would be immense.
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I agree with both of you (Cael and ArtofLight), and I think that for the health of the game (marketing and subscriber-wise) SOMETHING blowing up is going to happen and it will be glorious.
I must state that my sympathies and recognition of plight are directed at the fact that a lot of people who truly feel invested, and who have had the carrot dangled, are going to come off feeling sore. Balance is a rare thing - IRL we have entire religions based on that concept as some form of nigh unobtainable concept so I consider that some indicator of how frequently we should expect it. But the fact that a subset of the population is going to feel rightfully disenfranchised should not be ignored. They are not whining - they are valued and equal players in our world, who are upset that they cannot have a hand in their faction's actions. Should they be guaranteed that input? Not for me to say. But I recognise their frustration.
With railroaded events (completely ignoring any personal issues you, I or anyone else may have with he who shall not be named), both sides had their cherring hordes and disappointed supporters. The loss of Otro was a wrecking blow to many in the Liberal Caldari bloc, and even Patriots didn't clap with glee about it (at least too openly). The retaking of Caldari Prime is an often weaponised barb to sling at the Gallente, but the logistical nightmare it represents is a constant murmur of discontent in the Caldari community I have contact with.
To my mind, it is not irrelevance to the story line we fear or bemoan, but irrelevance to our peers. We are competitive to the point of viciousness sometimes, and it will no doubt be a point for years to come of 'Where were you when we smashed your titan?'. All role players have pride in something, at least them selves and sometimes in the community as a whole, but most often in a given PF supported element they chose as their own anchor.
So please take my words at face value when I say; I do not promote pandering, but the degradation of people's concern and vocal presentation of that concern, that they will be made irrelevant in respects to something they have spent substantial emotional and temporal resources contributing to, is a little unfair.
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It was indeed possible to Permanently tank the Faction Police in Highsec regardless of the Sec Status of the System. While I was in Shadows of the Federation, we did it several times in various systems including Jita.
At the time, it took 10 guys going in first with Frigates, speed tanked to hell and back. They'd warp out to safespots, pick a direction and hit the MWD. Spawns would trigger on them but due to the speed of the ships, they'd be out of range before they managed a lock. The spawn would despawn and then respawn again to try to get the Frigate.
Meanwhile, anyone else in the system was free to operate without any interference at all from the Navy once all the Frigates were engaged because CCP Limited the Navy response to 10 Spawns per system.
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Please note however that it's been at least a year or two since I last saw this tactic being used. I'm not sure if the Navy still stay on their original Target or if they shift to a new target when they lose contact with the first one.
If it still works though, then with a small bit of co-operation between the Caldari Militia Members, they can effectively shut down the Navy response and operate freely during this event
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I 100% agree with you Aelisha. I wish people wouldn't walk away feeling sore and irrelevant and I'm hoping (possibly in vain) that something has been worked out to prevent that feeling.
No matter which side wins the conflict (though I am personally cheering for the Caldari because delicious, delicious tension and RP) I just hope that somehow it's worked out that both sides enjoy the event itself.
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I prefered when everything was railroaded without making us believe that we matter.
Of course though, all I see here is a lot of speculation and hot air and I do not see honestly why people are being so incendiary before anything actually happens. Just wait for after and whine about it at the proper time with the proper, legitimate reasons (or non legit ones, for that matters anyway...).
Also, like Cael, I do not see why I should even agree or empathize when people whine about their faction that way, when they were perfectly happy to play with it when it turned to their advantage when the other side got smashed repeadtedly.
I have the feeling to read a discussion between pots and kettles.
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Pointing out that game mechanics (FW, Standings, High-Sec) make this situation more than a mere 'logistical problem' is hardly whining.
But maybe I am misunderstanding your point here and you should elaborate who exactly you mean with using game mechanics to repeatedly smash the opposition while telling them to HTFU.
Because from my point of view, for someone complaining about pots and kettles, you make a pretty good cookware juggler yourself.
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Pointing out that game mechanics (FW, Standings, High-Sec) make this situation more than a mere 'logistical problem' is hardly whining.
But maybe I am misunderstanding your point here and you should elaborate who exactly you mean with using game mechanics to repeatedly smash the opposition while telling them to HTFU.
Because from my point of view, for someone complaining about pots and kettles, you make a pretty good cookware juggler yourself.
I think Lyn was hinting out at the people who lorded over when the Caldari retook CP through railroad plot mechanics, some of them are now the most bitter of complainers because they aren't getting a storyline situation lined up in their favour.
Also I think you're overstating how much of a logistical issue it is to get people and ships in. Gabriel mentioned it here, I've had chats with Rodj where he told me about how the Amarr Mil use to jump into Minmatar highsec and gank people using baitships to hold off the police etc. You have to handle an issue the other side does not sure, but it's not an impossible feat, nor something that hasn't been done before.
But hey, least you've got a Titan.
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That's why I put it logistical problem in quotes in the first place. The problem isn't a logistical nature - and what worked two years ago is of no help since there was most notably the AI change that makes speed tanking NPCs so that others have free reign impossible. We should also keep in mind that we're not talking about ganking people but most likely are looking at a lot of confusion, staying on the field and a larger engagement size and duration than 10 vs 1.
I'm merely attacking the notion of discarding these concerns as baseless whining about minor issues. But suit yourself.
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[mod]Thread cleaned and unlocked. [/mod]
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Pointing out that game mechanics (FW, Standings, High-Sec) make this situation more than a mere 'logistical problem' is hardly whining.
But maybe I am misunderstanding your point here and you should elaborate who exactly you mean with using game mechanics to repeatedly smash the opposition while telling them to HTFU.
Because from my point of view, for someone complaining about pots and kettles, you make a pretty good cookware juggler yourself.
I think Lyn was hinting out at the people who lorded over when the Caldari retook CP through railroad plot mechanics, some of them are now the most bitter of complainers because they aren't getting a storyline situation lined up in their favour.
Also I think you're overstating how much of a logistical issue it is to get people and ships in. Gabriel mentioned it here, I've had chats with Rodj where he told me about how the Amarr Mil use to jump into Minmatar highsec and gank people using baitships to hold off the police etc. You have to handle an issue the other side does not sure, but it's not an impossible feat, nor something that hasn't been done before.
But hey, least you've got a Titan.
I think the point has already been made that Caldari RPers didn't, as a general rule, want anything that happened in TEA. To claim that TEA was some great reward for us that we didn't work for, and that we're now getting our just desserts, is to completely ignore everything almost every Caldari RPer has been saying for the last several years.
Getting Caldari Prime was something we had to defend. What were we gonna say "oh, hey, take it back, we don't care"? But at least we had that, when we'd lost everything we liked about the State, lost the one hero character we had (even if he was a Marty Stu and needed killing), and had been crammed into the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor/Nazis in space boxes.
I've already written lists of the ways that the Fed has been favored over the State. The most argument I get is typically one of interpretation "well, actually, it makes the Caldari look good when the Federation completely destroys their Black Rise colonies". Yeah, ok. CCP has been running Eve as a Space Opera for the Gallente and Minmatar for years, so I shall be somewhat skeptical of the claim that Gallente players "deserve" to have the playing field arranged in their favor because they didn't get to have a choice about the titan. Well, we didn't get to have a choice about losing in FW lore whether we won or lost in the game, we didn't get to have a choice about Heth, we didn't get to have a choice about CCP running a large storyline to make the Caldari faction anathema to Dusties, etc etc.
And while asserting that CCP might be biased is apparently now moderated, I would agree with that perspective.
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I always thought the Caldari were the Mascot of EVE.
I do not think it is possible to proscribe "facts" in these cases. So much of it is down to personal interpretation, where both sides can be valid.
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Let's be fair, no one particularly came out of TEA particularly happy. In my review I said that the Gallente got the shittiest end of the stick because they were portrayed almost universally as weak, incompetent dupes. This isn't about "who wins." It's about how these live events are going to end up being extremely unsatisfying to everyone.
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Let's be fair, no one particularly came out of TEA particularly happy. In my review I said that the Gallente got the shittiest end of the stick because they were portrayed almost universally as weak, incompetent dupes. This isn't about "who wins." It's about how these live events are going to end up being extremely unsatisfying to everyone.
Yeah, I disagree with that interpretation of TEA. And, frankly, when your opponents are Space Nazis and the Empire of Enslaving Child Molesters, I don't think that looking somewhat incompetent is very bad at all. To wit: "Hey, yeah, Germany in WW2 was bad and all, but did you see France?" Seriously, Gallente and Minmatar came out miles ahead in TEA.
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What the pro-State block will have to do today and tomorrow before DT is exactly what the Pro-Fed block will have to do, only with one added item on their list;
1) Gather everyone who can attend, and get fleet-building going ASAP. You will need a doctrine, an FC or 3, a strategy and preparation to go attend.
2) The Pro-State band will have one extra item on your schedule - you will need to figure out the conditions you will get tomorrow. Testing the FW system and see how it works today and how you may get around it, if possible, and get in touch with Falcon for solid answers regarding the mechanics in play - to many 'maybe' and 'possibles' and to little 'this is how it works.'
3) Alternatively you chant "self-fulfilling prophecy" and don't bother to even try and attend. In this case the only thing I can guarantee is that those who don't show up won't be there for whatever happens.
It's not perfectly fair, but it never is anyhow. We deal with the cards we have received though, at least I will.
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Let's be fair, no one particularly came out of TEA particularly happy. In my review I said that the Gallente got the shittiest end of the stick because they were portrayed almost universally as weak, incompetent dupes. This isn't about "who wins." It's about how these live events are going to end up being extremely unsatisfying to everyone.
Yeah, I disagree with that interpretation of TEA. And, frankly, when your opponents are Space Nazis and the Empire of Enslaving Child Molesters, I don't think that looking somewhat incompetent is very bad at all. To wit: "Hey, yeah, Germany in WW2 was bad and all, but did you see France?" Seriously, Gallente and Minmatar came out miles ahead in TEA.
Okay, this is something that's been on the back of my mind for awhile, but...
What exactly is wrong with being a space nazi faction? I get that there was the whole retcon thing involved, so I know the main issue Caldari players have is that they rolled for A and got B instead after TEA. What I don't get is why people seem to say B is bad just for being B. If the Caldari had been space nazi's right from the start, if they had been designed from the ground up as it so that there was never any retcon involved, would you still be upset at them being space nazi's?
Is there something that mandates being good guys (which I don't get, since in my opinion they were always the most dystopian nation even when they were still pre-Heth; that was what endeared me to them)? And for that matter, is there something that mandates space nazi's being bad guys?
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Okay, this is something that's been on the back of my mind for awhile, but...
What exactly is wrong with being a space nazi faction? I get that there was the whole retcon thing involved, so I know the main issue Caldari players have is that they rolled for A and got B instead after TEA. What I don't get is why people seem to say B is bad just for being B. If the Caldari had been space nazi's right from the start, if they had been designed from the ground up as it so that there was never any retcon involved, would you still be upset at them being space nazi's?
Is there something that mandates being good guys (which I don't get, since in my opinion they were always the most dystopian nation even when they were still pre-Heth; that was what endeared me to them)? And for that matter, is there something that mandates space nazi's being bad guys?
If they had been Space Nazis from the get-go, I wouldn't have given a damn. But then I probably wouldn't have given a damn about RP either, at least with the Caldari.
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Really good questions from Samira, but I think that needs to be split to another discussion. It will derail this one.
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Heth = The Caldari about as much as Franco= Spain.
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What exactly is wrong with being a space nazi faction? I get that there was the whole retcon thing involved, so I know the main issue Caldari players have is that they rolled for A and got B instead after TEA. What I don't get is why people seem to say B is bad just for being B. If the Caldari had been space nazi's right from the start, if they had been designed from the ground up as it so that there was never any retcon involved, would you still be upset at them being space nazi's?
I wasn't sold a car that said "space nazis", and I wouldn't have bought it if it had. I was sold a car that said "futuristic techno-punk/goth society drawn from shadowrunner and similar settings". Halfway down the road, CCP carjacked my limo and left me with a half-working jalopy. To add insult to injury, every time I start getting somewhere with it, they show up again to rip off additional parts.
And like I've said before, people don't mind playing villains who are intelligent, capable, and competent. But the Caldari aren't even that. They can't provide security for their own people, they only managed a sneak attack on CP because of the Broker and the Minmatar, and so on and so forth ad infinitum. Even as a villain, they are pathetic. At best, they resemble a sort of genocidal Dr. Evil character, except without as many gadgets.
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a GM notice about avoiding Luminaire over Friday afternoon-Saturday morning.
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Hard as it seems from a game mechanics perspective for the Caldari to win this one, I'd still wager--if I were a gambling man, that is--that they will get all the political ends that they want, even if the Leviathan goes boom.
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Yes, to be fair, the loss of Caldari Prime would probably sound the death knell for the Heth regime, and if that is the price that must be paid for that, OOCly, at least, I am willing to suffer that loss if the State will return to its pre-TEA state as a result. That is my one big hope here.
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Whee, pretty pictures :D
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/903776_10151503980029394_672004480_o.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/883088_10151503980019394_1958033573_o.jpg)
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Yes, to be fair, the loss of Caldari Prime would probably sound the death knell for the Heth regime, and if that is the price that must be paid for that, OOCly, at least, I am willing to suffer that loss if the State will return to its pre-TEA state as a result. That is my one big hope here.
There's no possible way the State can revert to a truly pre-TEA state at this point. Not with any semblance of believable storytelling. Just about everything they've released has moved us away from that, from TEA itself to the "Caldari Demographics" article.
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I'm not sure why you think that, but I would disagree. And for the most part, I didn't have any huge issues with the Caldari Demographics article, aside from the ridiculously high number given for the military.
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I-RED will be hosting a fleet for this event.
Mails are being sent out.
Contact me if you want a copy of it and have not gotten one yet. Ostensibly, we'll be defending the titan... but since Heth will likely go batshit insane with it, we'll probably end up shooting it. Bring close range shield BCs.
Nevermind. You can safely ignore any invitations you've gotten.
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Nevermind. You can safely ignore any invitations you've gotten.
What prompted that? :/
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Nevermind. You can safely ignore any invitations you've gotten.
What prompted that? :/
A monumental failure in the ability of roleplayers to handle a simple live event without filling my mailbox and chat windows with complaining about CCP, militia, railroading, Caldari, Gallente, ISK, ships, fittings, who gets to FC, who will be joining, which side we'll be fighting on...
... and worse IC, which I won't go into.
From what I hear, Goonswarm is going to be having more fun with this event than any of you... and that's a sad sad concept.
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A monumental failure in the ability of roleplayers to handle a simple live event without filling my mailbox and chat windows with complaining about CCP, militia, railroading, Caldari, Gallente, ISK, ships, fittings, who gets to FC, who will be joining, which side we'll be fighting on...
... and worse IC, which I won't go into.
From what I hear, Goonswarm is going to be having more fun with this event than any of you... and that's a sad sad concept.
Well, to be fair, it's far easier for Goonswarm to be involved for a variety of reasons. But that is disappointing, despite my gripes. I think 4TH is still going to try to set something up.
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Nevermind. You can safely ignore any invitations you've gotten.
What prompted that? :/
A monumental failure in the ability of roleplayers to handle a simple live event without filling my mailbox and chat windows with complaining about CCP, militia, railroading, Caldari, Gallente, ISK, ships, fittings, who gets to FC, who will be joining, which side we'll be fighting on...
... and worse IC, which I won't go into.
From what I hear, Goonswarm is going to be having more fun with this event than any of you... and that's a sad sad concept.
Well, considering that a major point of your invitation was that we'd be shooting the Titan in all probability, I would imagine that some complaints might be in order no matter what.
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Nevermind. You can safely ignore any invitations you've gotten.
What prompted that? :/
A monumental failure in the ability of roleplayers to handle a simple live event without filling my mailbox and chat windows with complaining about CCP, militia, railroading, Caldari, Gallente, ISK, ships, fittings, who gets to FC, who will be joining, which side we'll be fighting on...
... and worse IC, which I won't go into.
From what I hear, Goonswarm is going to be having more fun with this event than any of you... and that's a sad sad concept.
Well, considering that a major point of your invitation was that we'd be shooting the Titan in all probability, I would imagine that some complaints might be in order no matter what.
SELF MODDED
Those wanting to ask me should do so privately.
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Wow. Calm down the lot of you.
This is way more heated than it needs to be. Just pixels, remember?
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I love how everyone seems to know how the event will be laid out and how the mechanics of the event gameplay will happen ahead of time, with no evidence.
The marketing for the event clearly states it will be up to the players to determine the results.
If it is railroaded ahead of time it would be a bit of a PR FUBAR for a company promoting a game where the players effect the outcome, neh?
Give the company a little bit of credit in their efforts to put on a show and a live event of this scale. Give it an honest effort and see how it goes.
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Wow. Calm down the lot of you.
This is way more heated than it needs to be. Just pixels, remember?
Give a dog a bone and he'll bury it in the backyard and beg for another. :D
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Give it an honest effort and see how it goes.
This much I can agree with, though I am admittedly not hopeful for the results.
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I love how everyone seems to know how the event will be laid out and how the mechanics of the event gameplay will happen ahead of time, with no evidence.
The marketing for the event clearly states it will be up to the players to determine the results.
If it is railroaded ahead of time it would be a bit of a PR FUBAR for a company promoting a game where the players effect the outcome, neh?
Give the company a little bit of credit in their efforts to put on a show and a live event of this scale. Give it an honest effort and see how it goes.
No.
And, we do have evidence. People have already asked, and been told, by CCP devs, what is going on. The location is specifically one which Caldari RPers cannot reach. When they complained about that, they were told, basically, "fuck off, those are the consequences you get for being in Caldari FW."
And I've already given CCP lots of chances. The last time, they directed me to the wrong location, then simply brought enough NPCs to practically alpha the targets we were protecting, even though we killed the hostiles in seconds (total fight was 1-2 minutes, I would guess, including stragglers). Sure, that could have been stopped, but only if I knew beforehand exactly where and what I was supposed to be countering. This is bad faith, and it definitely wasn't worth taking a morning off of work to do it.
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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217455
The GM Team would like to make it known that due to events that will be occurring in the system of Luminaire over the weekend, ships or capsules destroyed between downtime on Friday, March 22nd (11:00 UTC on 22/03/2013), and Downtime on Saturday March 23rd (11:00 UTC on 23/03/2013) will not be eligible for reimbursement.
Players who do not wish to be at risk of in game loss due to ongoing hostilities in the Luminaire solar system should be sure to add this system to their autopilot avoidance list and ensure they stay well clear of Luminaire over the course of the weekend. Ship or capsule losses between downtime on Friday, March 22nd (11:00 UTC on 22/03/2013), and Downtime on Saturday March 23rd (11:00 UTC on 23/03/2013) will not be eligible for reimbursement due to the ongoing conflict between the Gallente Federation and the Caldari State.
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Does this mean they are going to make the system lowsec? If they do, caps might be able to be dropped... which means Goonswarm killwhores on the titan. Would it be possible to make a system lowsec but jam cynos?
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Does this mean they are going to make the system lowsec? If they do, caps might be able to be dropped... which means Goonswarm killwhores on the titan. Would it be possible to make a system lowsec but jam cynos?
Making it lowsec would disable the faction police and CONCORD, both of which are things Falcon has explicitly stated will not be happening.
CONCORD will still kill you.
Faction Police will still hunt you.
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Best idea I've seen suggested so far is that simply being in the system flags you suspect. Never know, it could happen >_>
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Welp. Guess there's no point in faking a cold today then! I sincerely hope that the thing does not turn into a lame clusterfuck to get on the killmail.
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From the official thread:
The real question is this:
Is this live event something that players can influence the outcome of? If so, by omitting the majority of those people who've been fighting for FW this is pretty ******.
However, if this live event has a pre-determined outcome, just let us know that is the case and we can happily just watch the show.
Events where players can completely rewrite the outcome from the ground up are something I would love to see happen someday and I think a lot of people here share that dream. However we are still building up our capabilities in this area and that's not something we're ready to pull off yet.
This seems to me to essentially be an admission that the outcome is pretty much fixed.
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Or you could have nothing. How about that?
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Or you could have nothing. How about that?
Better than this, in my opinion.
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No, I've played the game long enough to know that if live events did disappear again, there will be much remorse. Maybe not from you Vik, but then again these events are not about you.
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Or you could have nothing. How about that?
Better than this, in my opinion.
I think I've discovered the source of the problem
(http://i.imgur.com/XCnsVco.gif)
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No, I've played the game long enough to know that if live events did disappear again, there will be much remorse. Maybe not from you Vik, but then again these events are not about you.
They don't all have to go. For them to just stop screwing with the Caldari would be better than what they are doing, is my opinion.
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The thing about a story for a game is that it is written by someone else. We don't have creative license here; CCP does. For now, I have faith. It sucks that Caldari guys can't get out there, but from what I'm seeing it's not going to be that pleasant anyway. What I expect is about 1000 players in the system lagging out and trying to get at least one shot off on the titan. It's going to go down whether you like it or not at this point, so let's just go with the flow. Play your characters as they should be.
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Pointing out that game mechanics (FW, Standings, High-Sec) make this situation more than a mere 'logistical problem' is hardly whining.
But maybe I am misunderstanding your point here and you should elaborate who exactly you mean with using game mechanics to repeatedly smash the opposition while telling them to HTFU.
Because from my point of view, for someone complaining about pots and kettles, you make a pretty good cookware juggler yourself.
I don't know what is a coockware juggler and I have never ever whined about my beloved faction. It's just... a faction. And currently, CONCORD is being portrayed so rotted and flawed that it really is starting to tear my character apart. I am fine with it, it provides good RP too that way.
Also, I was not pointing at the legit complains about FW impediments here, I was pointing at people complaining how the Caldari are always supposedly portrayed bad, treated like shit, etc, over and over again. I have nothing about someone voicing his concerns about something, I do it myself like most people here. I just happen to have a lot of OOC grievances with a good chunk of the Caldari players that spend their time whining loudly all over (and then calling me a negative nellie, what a joke), being overtly aggressive and/or oppressive to other players when their beloved faction is threatened or when they happen to think differently.
Yeah, I consider the Caldari RP milieu quite unfriendly, be it ICly or OOCly.
I also understand and agree that the Caldari are in a fucked up situation since :TEA:.
Welcome to the club then, they are not alone.
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Play your characters as they should be.
As Dex noted, the appropriate response by a Caldari Patriot - in universe - to such an event would be to biomass.
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I still fail to see how 10 faction cops that can be warp to warp tanked by a small number of Cal Mil is going to stop the rest of you guys from participating.
This is starting to sound like complaining for the sake of it, when the option to participate is there.
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As Dex noted, the appropriate response by a Caldari Patriot - in universe - to such an event would be to biomass.
You're kidding, right? Suicide because your side suffers a defeat? Shouldn't you just fight harder in that case? I mean, I'm all for being unhappy about these events IC and even somewhat OOC, but killing yourself IC? Is it really that depressing?
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Play your characters as they should be.
As Dex noted, the appropriate response by a Caldari Patriot - in universe - to such an event would be to biomass.
If that were true they would have all suicided when they lost it the first time, and there'd be no one left for the State. That's melodramatic.
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As Dex noted, the appropriate response by a Caldari Patriot - in universe - to such an event would be to biomass.
You're kidding, right? Suicide because your side suffers a defeat? Shouldn't you just fight harder in that case? I mean, I'm all for being unhappy about these events IC and even somewhat OOC, but killing yourself IC? Is it really that depressing?
Go read Dex's rational. In any case, that sort of response is justified in the PF. Heck, it's justified if you just lose a State Raven.
Cael, last I checked, you can't do that anymore. Now you get a spawn for each person. Anyway, even when it did work, it only really worked well before the spawns got good at scramming as well as webbing. Now you get tied down rather than being able to warp away.
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Heck, it's justified if you just lose a State Raven.
"Just"
You'll also note that as this has no impact on the capsuleer, they get the 1st Officer to do it.
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Cael, last I checked, you can't do that anymore. Now you get a spawn for each person. Anyway, even when it did work, it only really worked well before the spawns got good at scramming as well as webbing. Now you get tied down rather than being able to warp away.
Talking with CCP earlier they made reference to the fact Faction police are still a limited number. Of course you guys could just test this in some backwater area if you're not entirely sure.
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Cael, last I checked, you can't do that anymore. Now you get a spawn for each person. Anyway, even when it did work, it only really worked well before the spawns got good at scramming as well as webbing. Now you get tied down rather than being able to warp away.
Talking with CCP earlier they made reference to the fact Faction police are still a limited number. Of course you guys could just test this in some backwater area if you're not entirely sure.
This. CCP said just today in OOC chat that there is still a limit of 10 faction navy per system.
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In that case there is no problem. You just need more than 10 people. I'm sure the united might of the Caldari Militia can manage that, hmm?
Hell, just bring 50 basilisks >_>
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Or just use -5 to Gallente that aren't in FW. That way they can tank fine and no one will be able to shoot them without getting CONCORDOKKEN'd.
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Vikarion, as unhappy as I am with the current Caldari storyline, I do not think it is because Falcon or anyone else on the storyline team has any particular malice towards the Caldari, Caldari RP, or whatever. I think it is more a function of the fact that CCP's live events continue be a case of reach exceeding the grasp and the storyline is still too focused on GIANT SHOCKING EVENTS rather than smaller things that give life to the world in a more distributed way.
Constantly harping about how this is a vendetta against the Caldari only makes you look petulant and makes it easy to dismiss your arguments.
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Vikarion, as unhappy as I am with the current Caldari storyline, I do not think it is because Falcon or anyone else on the storyline team has any particular malice towards the Caldari, Caldari RP, or whatever. I think it is more a function of the fact that CCP's live events continue be a case of reach exceeding the grasp and the storyline is still too focused on GIANT SHOCKING EVENTS rather than smaller things that give life to the world in a more distributed way.
Constantly harping about how this is a vendetta against the Caldari only makes you look petulant and makes it easy to dismiss your arguments.
I don't believe I've been "constantly harping about how this is a vendetta against the Caldari". I've said that CCP, in my opinion, keeps fucking it up. I can't express my opinion on the actions of particular CCP employees without getting modded.
In any case, I'm taking Hamish's advice. I'm outta the Caldari scene.
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Considering the Titan was railroaded in in the first place, I don't see why people are so offended at it being railroaded out.
Pro Gallente characters had to go through the same level of crap years ago and came out the other side for it, yes there's a setback and the status quo of Tony G's terrible vision will no longer exist (Thank fuck for that!) But no one knows the political fallout yet, to go "Fuck this I'm out!" is exceedingly rash.
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I just think you need to take a deep breath and relax, Vikarion. This isn't the end of the world, and as frustrating as this particular event is likely to end up being, it's worth waiting a bit.
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the failure of teh 1st crusade did not prevent the 2nd crusade taking place. Or the third.
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I just think you need to take a deep breath and relax, Vikarion. This isn't the end of the world, and as frustrating as this particular event is likely to end up being, it's worth waiting a bit.
When did FW start? 2008? It's been, what, almost 5 years? I know you took a break, but we've been getting "it'll get better" for about the last 4 of those.
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When did FW start? 2008? It's been, what, almost 5 years? I know you took a break, but we've been getting "it'll get better" for about the last 4 of those.
I am aware, but the new Events folks only started last fall.
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Red Vs. Blue is pretty cool. All the cheap pew of FW, none of the hassle.
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Well, Vik. To chear you up; you/we did manage to cut off a bit of the Gallente "awesomeness" here (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=Modern_Era_of_the_Gallente_Federation&diff=prev&oldid=168934).
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It would remain under Federation control, which would be a source of lasting resentment within more militant Caldari factions.
I knew it. >.>
I am glad to have finally found it back. Thanks for the link.
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Well, Vik. To chear you up; you/we did manage to cut off a bit of the Gallente "awesomeness" here (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=Modern_Era_of_the_Gallente_Federation&diff=prev&oldid=168934).
I'm not really angry. Actually, I'm not at all angry. I suppose I'm just sort of :roll: "whatever, riiiight" about it. Very cynical.
Like when Hamish went back into FW just to do FW missions for LP. :P
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A few billion ISK was not worth not being able to harass people in Gallente highsec. Worst mistake in eve.
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[mod]Thread locked as utterly derailed. On-topic discussion can be continued here (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=4429.0)[/mod]