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EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Corporation and Alliance Development => Topic started by: Aldrith Shutaq on 19 Mar 2012, 21:49

Title: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 19 Mar 2012, 21:49
Hello all,

For those of you familiar with me, my unsubbed character and my former corp, hi! Yeah, I've been lurking for a while and I'm started to get EVE itchy again. However, I have vowed to only return if I am happy with the changes in FW and the war declaration mechanic promised in Inferno. That said, me coming back will mean (hopefully) dusting off the Knighthood and doing something with it again. I am starting this thread to lay out some of my ideas for its new incarnation and use you all as a sounding board to gague their merits and your interest in joining/allying/interacting with/opposing the corp. Depending on the results, I may try to recruit a few of you to help me with the corp, or just simply go ::effort:: and end up rejoining PIE to get my EVE rocks off.

This thread will be purposely vague on some of the RP details of KotMC's proposed return, since nobody likes spoilers in any story. I'll start with some thoughts on the old incarnation of the corp, and what I've been wanting to change.

Old KotMC

Before my abrupt departure from the game, caused mainly by apathy and frustration towards the game, KotMC was a thriving Amarr FW RP/PvP corp. It held quite a few prominent RP'ers, quite a few more decent PvP players, and had gained some modest noteriety (or imfamy!) on both levels. With a 50-odd member count, it was thriving, but fundamentally disjointed and awkward on many IC and OOC levels. The IC factors (odd liberal Amarrian ideas, the taking on of just about anyone willing to fight, ect.) were fun to play around with and enjoyable for the most part, but also seemed to lack a few things. However, the RP flaws could have been fixed, and didn't warrant the dumping of the proverbial bucket that I ended up doing to it. My reasons for popping the corp and leaving were OOC, but connected with role play attitudes, rules and how it should affect gameplay.

In the end, its success was its downfall: so many non-RP PvP players got into it that most simply didn't want to be bound by IC based rules, like a RoE. Simply put, I did not like this fact and, while it was my fault it had happened in the first place, I ended the corp and told everyone to find new homes based on how they wanted to play the game. In retrospect it was selfish, but I wouldn't be able to sit right with stepping down and letting others turn KotMC into a bland sorta-RPish militia corp with a soul completely different from what I had originally intended it to be.

What that was was a RP-centric corp that kicked ass at PvP and had a smallish, tightly knit member base that shared a common theme with the corp itself, that of being new-age warriors bound by a code of morality like the knights the corp derives its name from. I never got around to this because I was too lazy to write the fluff for it and too lenient to slap people around if they didn't conform like good little Amarrian bishes, but this will be my goal for the new version of the Knighthood. Should I ever get to it, that is.

New KotMC

Purpose

The Knighthood of the Merciful Crown will be repurposed from an FW RP corp to something more flexible and less over-done. Basically, while it will continue to fight in FW, it will also concentrate its military power against particular corps and individuals it deems as 'evil'. I plan on having a rather sensible (if not over-the-top noble) code of morality for the corp, and not just based on a straight Amarrian religious mold. Though God and Glory will play a big part in it, the code will sincerely attempt to protect decent people (despite race and religion) and hinder the efforts of EVE's many 'bad guys'. However, it will have a fairly ruthless flavor as it goes about pursuing this end, fitting in with a battlecry I came up with for the Knighthood quite a while back: "No mercy for the merciless".  This will hopefully lend the corp a distincly dark, EVE-ish take on the old white knight formula.

I don't believe there are many space viglante groups out there that try to consistently and relentlessly stab 'bad people' in the face, so hopefully this will be an interesting formula. Please do correct me if I am wrong in this assumption, however. Additionally, improvements on the wardec mechanic are a necessity for this to work IMO, hence why Inferno's improvments will dictate whether I do this or not.

Membership

Recruitment will be much more selective, almost to the point where it will be invite-only. Players will be admitted based on how well they are seen in the eyes of the Knighthood, this judgment being based on how strong their personality is, how upright they are as people, and how well they fight in space. It will not be expressley based on race and religion, but being an Amarrian and believing in God will help a lot. However, what it will basically be looking for will be good people who are good at fighting.

Obviously this will keep membership very limited. That is the intent, as I do not want the corp blowing up to uncontrolable proportions again, to the point where few members have anything in common with each other. Think Arthur's Round Table as opposed to a massive army. Small, dedicated and elite. I also find that this setting is the best to RP in, so hopefully this will be more fun in that department too.

Flavor

Expanding on what was said in the purpose section, KotMC will have two distinct flavors: one very light, and one very dark. I plan on having members be held to strict code of ethics that are akin to chivalry and bushido, and for them to act with a certain air of nobility and dignity. They do not have to be impeccable in their behavior, but decent to the point where someone would trust them watching their house for an afternoon. This will contrast with the wrath incurred when someone does not behave quite so well as they do.

Justice and revenge are going to be big themes within the new corp. Where the line is drawn will be very blurry, and figuring out what acts are motivated by a logical intent to create a better capsuleer society, and pure, blood-mad hatred will be difficult to outsiders.
For example, the corp will have a set of rules dictating what to do with POW's. Prisoners captured from different ship wrecks will be subject to different rules based on what capsuleer they were serving at the time the Knighthood decided to pop them. Minmatar militia prisoners will be enslaved, but will be up for honorable prisoner exchanges with respected enemies.  Pirate prisoners will also be enslaved, but without the possibility of prisoner exchange. Or be hung. Amarrian traitor prisoners will have their heads chopped off. War criminals will be crucified. Violent heretics will be tied to sticks and set on fire. I think you get the jist of things. All mass-executions can be public RP events too, so bring the kids! By the way, aren't medieval execution methods fascinating?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iHKcTd67pxw/Sd225RrDxGI/AAAAAAAAAMU/nU8lylXQyhQ/S1600-R/quarteredNEW.jpg)

*ahem* So yeah, that could be fun! This opens up a lot of RP opportunities as well, such as people trying to free their former crews from KotMC imprisonment through negotiation or force, interrupting executions, or being captured, tried and executed themselves! Of course as capsuleers there will be no practical point to this since everyone is immortal, but Amarrians have never been about practicality. It's the principle of the thing!

This is just one example where a nice mix of honorable cruelty can come into play. Many more things are possible, they just need to be thought of.

Political Issues

The old KotMC was always supposed to be politically neutral on many issues ranging from slavery to what color the Empress's underwear was, however it ended up not so much... Its members were outspoken and a clear majority reigned in its ranks, which inevitably tinged its perception. Members will still possess freedom of opinion and speech, but KotMC itself will be more strongly defined as neutral party in itself. End slavery? Meh. Carry on the Old Reclaiming? Yeah, yeah. Minmatar Tribalism vs. Republicanism? The fuh... The finer points of a subjective reality in which all people are right in their own special way? What is this, I don't even...

Individual members will be left to decide on their own what they feel about these issues, and touting them to others will be considered basically a rather un-humble waste of breath. KotMC as a whole will act, not speak, and when it does speak what it says will matter because an act will soon follow. You might not even know you pissed off the Knighthood until you get the wardec mail.

KotMC as an entity will be interested in the following:


It will NOT be interested in:


In essence, less this:

(http://www.qualityperspectives.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/philosopher.bmp)

Moar this:

(http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/1600x1200/2010/Fantasy_Bloody_Knight_024759_.jpg)

And f**k yo little yappy dog too!



So anyway, these are the initial ideas I am toying with. More to come perhaps later.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Gottii on 19 Mar 2012, 22:48
Hope this works out! 
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Tiberious Thessalonia on 20 Mar 2012, 04:51
I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes. :D
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Graelyn on 20 Mar 2012, 05:29
Good luck man.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Valdezi on 20 Mar 2012, 05:46
I have been more active in the other side of Eve RP for a while - focusing of the Gallente/Caldari front, but I always admired KotMC from a distance. You guys were always my "Corp-I-Would-Join-If-Everything-I've-Built-Went-To-Shit".

I was sad to hear that you disbanded, but I'd be very happy to hear of it all starting up again. Good luck.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Kiki Truzhari on 20 Mar 2012, 07:13
The enemy returns!

I look forward to this greatly. I think great things will become of it.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Desiderya on 20 Mar 2012, 07:21
Quote


Justice and revenge are going to be big themes within the new corp. Where the line is drawn will be very blurry, and figuring out what acts are motivated by a logical intent to create a better capsuleer society, and pure, blood-mad hatred will be difficult to outsiders.
For example, the corp will have a set of rules dictating what to do with POW's. Prisoners captured from different ship wrecks will be subject to different rules based on what capsuleer they were serving at the time the Knighthood decided to pop them. Minmatar militia prisoners will be enslaved, but will be up for honorable prisoner exchanges with respected enemies.  Pirate prisoners will also be enslaved, but without the possibility of prisoner exchange. Or be hung. Amarrian traitor prisoners will have their heads chopped off. War criminals will be crucified. Violent heretics will be tied to sticks and set on fire. I think you get the jist of things. All mass-executions can be public RP events too, so bring the kids! By the way, aren't medieval execution methods fascinating?
Mmh...
(http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/66249240/1367411)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Nmaro Makari on 20 Mar 2012, 07:49
We've all been waiting for this.

No pressure

(THE PRESSURE!)

 ;)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Mizhara on 20 Mar 2012, 10:51
Sounds great. Might want to tone down the violent executions though, as that can very quickly lead to things feeling cheesy as hell. "Cleansing souls with fire" is probably something that's a bit less literal in today's New Eden than back during the witch trials on Earth.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Karmilla Strife on 20 Mar 2012, 10:58
Want!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Esna Pitoojee on 20 Mar 2012, 11:18
Am watching this very carefully to see how it develops. Hoping it works too!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Mitara Newelle on 20 Mar 2012, 11:40
/me approves of her husbands new found 'dark' side :D
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: kalaratiri on 20 Mar 2012, 12:07
To quote several blood raider barbies,

Quote
yaay
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 20 Mar 2012, 16:41
I am so glad to read this. I have never really recovered since I left KotMC and the reasons you exposed about the laxism and the more and more IC/RP conflicting against OOC oddities that happened more and more were part of the ones that basically made me left.

Now then, as much as I love your new concept of vigilantes (i dont know what are exactly the Imperial Justicars in the lore but it reminds me directly their name, at least), I do wonder how you intend to handle it toward all the bad guys in your own militia. Is the militia truly the place to be ? Because when you speak of heretics and pirates and murderers and the likes, you do not have to look further than inside the militias...
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 20 Mar 2012, 16:54
Stab 'em in the face, of course!

I think KotMC will end up droping in and out of FW as needs dictate. Being able to pursue a certain enemy when they retreat to Gallente or Minmatar hisec will be nice. And then there are the pesky asshats in the 24th that do not nice things. We'll only chase our own militia if it's really necessary though.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Nmaro Makari on 20 Mar 2012, 22:11
/me approves of her husbands new found 'dark' side :D

*starts rumours of a Lady Macbeth sort  :P
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Rodj Blake on 21 Mar 2012, 04:26
/me approves of her husbands new found 'dark' side :D

*starts rumours of a Lady Macbeth sort  :P

Mitty is far more sinister than Lady Macbeth.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 21 Mar 2012, 15:39
Stab 'em in the face, of course!

I think KotMC will end up droping in and out of FW as needs dictate. Being able to pursue a certain enemy when they retreat to Gallente or Minmatar hisec will be nice. And then there are the pesky asshats in the 24th that do not nice things. We'll only chase our own militia if it's really necessary though.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Victoria Stecker on 21 Mar 2012, 15:52
Hmm... this looks interesting. Enough so to make me ponder signing up, it would give me something to do ingame again and could be a ton of fun.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Desiderya on 21 Mar 2012, 15:58
Does indeed look interesting. :pondering:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Ava Starfire on 21 Mar 2012, 16:23
You guys were always my "Corp-I-Would-Join-If-Everything-I've-Built-Went-To-Shit".

I was sad to hear that you disbanded, but I'd be very happy to hear of it all starting up again. Good luck.

This.

Do eeeet.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Repentence Tyrathlion on 21 Mar 2012, 16:45
I miss the fireplace.

*cough*
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 21 Mar 2012, 16:48
I miss the fireplace.

*cough*

Not just empty quotin' :3
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Ava Starfire on 21 Mar 2012, 17:36
I miss the fireplace.

*cough*

Not just empty quotin' :3

Epic RP was had, by that fireplace.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Esna Pitoojee on 21 Mar 2012, 19:24
Yes, and even I will admit my replacement just isn't living up to the original.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 21 Mar 2012, 20:00
This might be a good time to let you all know that access to Mercy's Keep is going to become invite/request only. With the new mood of the corp certain people would simply have their heads lopped off and I don't intend on having a messy *Aldrith Shutaq leaps across the table and runs through [insert name here] with a [insert medieval weapon here].* RP every day.

Those who will be admitted will be:


This should also serve to clear up some of the RP clutter like lurkers and trolls. Mercy's Keep will hopefully be just as lively as I will tend to be on the generous side with the invites, but there are certain people that just won't be able to come in for their own safety.

Srs bsnss. K U GAIZ?!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 22 Mar 2012, 10:47
But... but.. the axe was so cool !
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Karmilla Strife on 22 Mar 2012, 14:14
Invite-only to your RP venue is going to limit interaction pretty steeply. It may also discourage players new to RP from trying it out.  Also if you and other mods are offline, it effectively locks the door to the keep. That may be nice in some contexts, but I know of a few RP locations/channels that are effectively dead because nobody can enter them anymore.

You seem to have pretty clear rules on who would likely find themselves unwelcome. maybe it'd be easier to simply use channel mod-powerz to keep those individuals out?

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Kiki Truzhari on 22 Mar 2012, 19:47
Well, I'll say this in regards to private venues:

Teraa Matar has something very much along the same lines as what Aldrith seems to be talking about. its basically a communal housing block, where everyone in TRA lives. It actually does a pretty damn good job of encouraging RP, since in order for anyone's character's go go anywhere (like the hangers) they have to go through the rest of the complex. I'd dare say half the RP I've gotten on kiki has taken place there, so it definitely does work, at least in our case.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Gottii on 22 Mar 2012, 23:09
This might be a good time to let you all know that access to Mercy's Keep is going to become invite/request only. With the new mood of the corp certain people would simply have their heads lopped off and I don't intend on having a messy *Aldrith Shutaq leaps across the table and runs through [insert name here] with a [insert medieval weapon here].* RP every day.

Those who will be admitted will be:

  • Those with something in common with the Knighthood (like allies)
  • Those with something to offer to the Knighthood (like recruits or social butterflies with connections)
  • Those with diplomatic interests with the Knighthood
  • Those with some other form of business with the Knighthood
  • Personal friends of members
  • Some select respectable enemies (and this will be conditional)

This should also serve to clear up some of the RP clutter like lurkers and trolls. Mercy's Keep will hopefully be just as lively as I will tend to be on the generous side with the invites, but there are certain people that just won't be able to come in for their own safety.

Srs bsnss. K U GAIZ?!

Well hell if there is not going to be daily beheadings Im a lot less excited by this whole thing...
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Jev North on 23 Mar 2012, 03:23
This is so damn sexy. I want to, to.. antagonize you guys, get what I'm sayin'?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Tiberious Thessalonia on 23 Mar 2012, 05:23
Can we get invites?  8)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 23 Mar 2012, 10:52
This is so damn sexy. I want to, to.. antagonize you guys, get what I'm sayin'?

Thanks! And yes, that's the point. I intend on making lots of enemies and having lots of fun pewing and being pewed by them.

Can we get invites?  8)

Unfortunately Sansha sympathizers are probably going to be on the 'stab in face' list. I'd be more than glad to hold a party in your honor though! You'd just have to die at the end of it! ;)

Well hell if there is not going to be daily beheadings Im a lot less excited by this whole thing...

Hopefully there will be, but I want these instances to be consentual between all parties involved. Hence why I'm more keen on making the Knighthood's standings on certian issues completely clear. Stand on this side of the line you're safe, on that side you're dead, get my meaning?

It's one thing where a character plays a part in an RP arc that culminates in KotMC exacting (or attempting to exact and failing) its version of justice and fun is had by all, but a completely different thing when someone's character comes to the Keep to relax and chat and ends up with their head on a spike instead, leaving the player with a distinct 'wtf' feeling. RP rape is bad, mkay? This is why I want the Keep invite only, since guarding an unlocked door with a shotgun is lots more complicated than just keeping a lock on the damn thing.

I've been brainstorming on how KotMC justice will work, post should come soon on it.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Mitara Newelle on 23 Mar 2012, 23:42
... when someone's character comes to the Keep to relax and chat and ends up with their head on a spike instead...

How would anything like this ever happen? 

<.<
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 24 Mar 2012, 05:53
It happened once or twice...
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 24 Mar 2012, 07:30
:vince:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 24 Mar 2012, 08:52
:maximulis:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 24 Mar 2012, 17:51
:verone:

:zenton:

also, :vince again:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Karmilla Strife on 25 Mar 2012, 09:55
Poor Vince.  :cry:

Also, Aldy you might like some of the stuff coming out about the new wardec system. I remember KotMC 1.0 counter-wardeccing to defend allies. It sounds like there will be a system for that. Also amarr ships are getting some graphics love.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 26 Mar 2012, 06:30
What is going to impact the most the new KotMC may be the new planned changes on the outlaw status and agression rules in lowsec.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 26 Mar 2012, 15:22
The new Wardec mechanics look like they're going to be problematic too. I was counting on being able to do wars lasting only 1-3 weeks. With this new mechanic looks like that's off the table now.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 26 Mar 2012, 15:42
If the mechanics are released as described in the panel, then the name of the game is going to be "bait stupid people into deccing" instead of "pick your target and go".

Unfortunately, while the current situation being heavily imbalanced in favor of the aggressor, the new system will just reverse the situation and make it stupidly imbalanced in favor of the defender.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Karmilla Strife on 26 Mar 2012, 21:45
I predict at least 20% more IGS trolling.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Saikoyu on 28 Mar 2012, 10:14
Aldrith, welcome back.  I do hope you get this off the ground, sounds like fun.  If you do I'll stop by again and Aldrith and Sai can have another little argument, now with more stabbing. 
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Esna Pitoojee on 28 Mar 2012, 11:18
Aldrith, welcome back.  I do hope you get this off the ground, sounds like fun.  If you do I'll stop by again and Aldrith and Sai can have another little argument, now with more stabbing.

No stabbings. Esna likes Saikoyu alive. :|
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Chell Charon on 28 Mar 2012, 11:43
Pretty please.

I can haz an enemy/friend?  :cube:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Desiderya on 28 Mar 2012, 12:19
Any ETA on this?  :D
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Rin Kaelestria on 28 Mar 2012, 12:41
Aldrith, welcome back.  I do hope you get this off the ground, sounds like fun.  If you do I'll stop by again and Aldrith and Sai can have another little argument, now with more stabbing.

No stabbings. Esna likes Saikoyu alive. :|

Even though I haven't spoken to  you in or out of character, I've heard a enough about you in both aspects. I second what Esna said.  :|

Anyhow, been keeping an eye on this thread, and enjoying the responses it gets from both potential friends and allies in general. No matter how they change the game, I hope it works out for you well, Aldrith.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Saikoyu on 28 Mar 2012, 14:34
Hey, I said stabbing, not killing, but thanks. 

And I have the feeling we're run into each other Rin, but my memory is bad with such things.  And I am heard about?  I am flattered.

Anyway, another thing for Aldrith, if the new sec status changes go through, you might not need war decs if you stick to low sec, even against other corps in the militia, at least from what I understood of it. 

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Rin Kaelestria on 28 Mar 2012, 18:08
And I have the feeling we're run into each other Rin, but my memory is bad with such things.  And I am heard about?  I am flattered.

Not sure about the run in, but yes, heard of. A person or two occasionally mentions you.  :P In good terms, mind you.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 28 Mar 2012, 18:44
Aldrith, welcome back.  I do hope you get this off the ground, sounds like fun.  If you do I'll stop by again and Aldrith and Sai can have another little argument, now with more stabbing.

Did I mention the proper Amarrian penalty for treason is DEATH?

Anyway, another thing for Aldrith, if the new sec status changes go through, you might not need war decs if you stick to low sec, even against other corps in the militia, at least from what I understood of it. 

That would be nice, but it's generally known that worst bastards out there like to keep a decent sec status so they can do their foul deeds anywhere they like, such as Blooders, EoM and Sansha. I was rather hoping to wardec certain corps for short periods of time on an almost rotating basis. Keeps things fresh and we'd get to fight across the cluster!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Gottii on 28 Mar 2012, 19:23
We do foul deeds.  Shoot at us!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 29 Mar 2012, 00:44
Any ETA on this?  :D

Probably 1-3 weeks before the launch of Inferno if I don't puss out and decided RL is more fun/important.

I promised  more detailed brainstorm posts coming soonish, but I'm in NYC right now and only get on my lappy in the moments my legs are too dead to carry me anywhere. Also slightly drunk when these moments come about, so...

I'll just give out a CCP style :soon:!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 29 Mar 2012, 05:18
Anyway, another thing for Aldrith, if the new sec status changes go through, you might not need war decs if you stick to low sec, even against other corps in the militia, at least from what I understood of it.

I am not sure for the militia corps. I do not recall them having mentionned something about the removal of faction standing penalties if you aggro someone of your own militia.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Desiderya on 29 Mar 2012, 06:28
Any ETA on this?  :D

Probably 1-3 weeks before the launch of Inferno if I don't puss out and decided RL is more fun/important.

I promised  more detailed brainstorm posts coming soonish, but I'm in NYC right now and only get on my lappy in the moments my legs are too dead to carry me anywhere. Also slightly drunk when these moments come about, so...

I'll just give out a CCP style :soon:!

Good, then I have something to look forward to.
But I can't resist: Pre-Inferno, or Pre-Escalation?  :)

Have fun in NYC. :P
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Saikoyu on 29 Mar 2012, 12:28
Aldrith, welcome back.  I do hope you get this off the ground, sounds like fun.  If you do I'll stop by again and Aldrith and Sai can have another little argument, now with more stabbing.

Did I mention the proper Amarrian penalty for treason is DEATH?

I have a some rounds on a Talos with your name on it if you want a duel. 

Anyway, another thing for Aldrith, if the new sec status changes go through, you might not need war decs if you stick to low sec, even against other corps in the militia, at least from what I understood of it. 

That would be nice, but it's generally known that worst bastards out there like to keep a decent sec status so they can do their foul deeds anywhere they like, such as Blooders, EoM and Sansha. I was rather hoping to wardec certain corps for short periods of time on an almost rotating basis. Keeps things fresh and we'd get to fight across the cluster!

Reading the latest dev blog, it sounds like you still could.  The war lasts for a week and at the end of that, you can either pay for another week, or give up and the war expires, or your target surrenders and you can't fight eachother for a bit.  So, I think you could war dec someone else every week if you wanted. 

But good luck in NYC. 
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 29 Mar 2012, 12:31
CCP didn't really elaborate enough for me to be sure that's the case - in order to bring in allies, a defender has to make the war mutual.

But in the current system, making the war mutual removes all bills, doesn't it?

So what happens in the new system? If there are no bills to pay, how do you "abandon" it in that fashion?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Ulphus on 29 Mar 2012, 12:49
CCP didn't really elaborate enough for me to be sure that's the case - in order to bring in allies, a defender has to make the war mutual.

But in the current system, making the war mutual removes all bills, doesn't it?

So what happens in the new system? If there are no bills to pay, how do you "abandon" it in that fashion?

A defender doesn't need to make the war mutual, that's completely separate. Making it mutual just means it doesn't cost anything to maintain, although the attacker still has to pay for the first week.

The defender can put out a allies contract (it doesn't have to be for ISK, if the friends want to war for free) and once the allies accept it, they're in the war as full participants (after 24 hour warm up), except that they are tied to the fortunes of the defender. If the defender surrenders, the allies war is over. If the war gets extended, it's extended for the allies as well.

I *think* that if a war is mutual, one side would have to put up a terms offer and the other side would have to accept it, or put up a counter offer ad nauseum until someone accepted it.

I seem to recall, though I would have to check my notes, that the defender has to make it mutual in the first 24 hours, I.e. before it goes live.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Ava Starfire on 02 Apr 2012, 14:12
Aldrith.

We want YOU to be our enemies!

I hope you find eve to your liking post changes. Have fun in NYC!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Tiberious Thessalonia on 02 Apr 2012, 14:39
We, also, might be interested in coming to fight your dangerous mental illne-  err, religiously based reclaiming organization.  We'll get back to you :)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Nmaro Makari on 02 Apr 2012, 15:10
We, also, might be interested in coming to fight your dangerous mental illne-  err, religiously based reclaiming organization.  We'll get back to you :)

*Casually slips Aldy a SYNE business card and walks away whistling nonchalantly
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 04 Apr 2012, 05:52
Found that on the evelopedia : http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ni-Kunni (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ni-Kunni)

Thought it might interest Aldrith, thats a shitload of Ni-Kunni PF. :p
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Rodj Blake on 04 Apr 2012, 07:07
Found that on the evelopedia : http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ni-Kunni (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ni-Kunni)

Thought it might interest Aldrith, thats a shitload of Ni-Kunni PF. :p

That article gets the Rodj Blake thumbs up for good PF. 

BRB, off to eat some stir-fried Al-Dehr beetles over millet.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 04 Apr 2012, 12:19
Yush, I am most familiar with this page. :3 Personally I'm waiting for the Khanid bloodline one. I want to know more about cyberknights!

Anyway, I'm back home after an epic trip and should get to typing some stuff tonight.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 05 Apr 2012, 17:22
Hurr, went to sleep last night instead, so now I'll make it up at work! Please note I might be updating this post in bits and pieces as I run into writers blocks/have to do actual work.

The aim of this post will be to further define and clarify the new KotMC's aims in regards to enforcing its views of morality upon others, most specifically other capsuleers... i.e. you lot! KotMC's actual philosophical outlook will only be mentioned where necessary for explanation, however. This post will be mostly concerned with a kind of 'justice system' I've been brainstorming which will hopefully lend KotMC's brand of vigilantism some form of organization and, just maybe, legitimacy and respect from others. Of course in the end we won't care much if we have the latter since capsuleers are the scum of the earth and nobody cares about their opinions, but hey, trying never hurts!

The motivation for this IC should be obvious, and was covered a bit in my OP. KotMC wants to do good things and hurt bad people. The final IC explanation will be much more complex and dignified when I write it, but this is the basic principle that will from now on motivate all KotMC corporate actions. OOC I want to start a neat thing where IC actions, decisions and beliefs can and will consistently translate into in-game consequences for other players. It's my intent that this will create a lot more fun than just having flame wars on the IGS. Of course there will be OOC rules governing the implementation of this system; the last thing I want to do is inadvertently troll people into RP'ing or playing the game in a certain way.

KotMC Justice

The Knighthood's justice system will consist of 4 main parts, with another applied to special cases where the individual(s) being prosecuted wish to redeem themselves in the eyes of KotMC and/or the capsuleer public. They are:

1.) Definition of Crime
2.) Identification of Crimes Committed
3.) Prosecution/Trial
4.) Enforcement/Punishment
*OR*
4.) Surrender, Confession, Punishment and Redemption

Definitions

KotMC will have a set of acts that it will considered pursuable offences when comitted by a capsuleer. Here is the tentative list, organized from least serious to most. Suggestions for additions and modifications welcome!

Identification

The first part of any legal procedure is to figure out when, where and by whom a crime has been committed. KotMC members will of course be the first people to seek out news on bad deeds and the bad people behind them. This is generally easy enough to come by in any regular day of RP, along with the junk that floats around the IGS. However, the intent is to eventually get people to come to KotMC and report evil deeds. Yes, this is all starting to sound very police-like, isn't it? But yes, I want people to love and hate KotMC almost the same way they do the cops. Except these cops are ALL dark, brooding maverick ones in the action movies. But knightly. And kinda holy. Eh... you'll get what I mean eventually.

Anyway, as stated in the OP, KotMC will be quiet as it watches, receives reports and figures out who does what. Any reports received from non-KotMC will remain anonymous, and KotMC members themselves will be encouraged to not be too loud in berating the baddies since they already know what they're doing wrong and are beyond lectures. The next step is to find out the extent of their crimes, gather proof, and do something about it.

Prosecution and Trial

Once a crime and a culprit has been identified, the next step is to gather evidence of the crime. This will usually be a simple matter of referencing IGS material (as many baddies like to shout about the stuff they're doing), gathering killmail records for instances of piracy and such. This will usually be enough for KotMC to consider the accused convicted. However, some more insidious cases might need witnesses... which becomes an excellent RP opportunity. Hunting down the right people, securing testimonies, keeping witnesses safe from reprisal... great stuff can be done here, and I hope it will lead to some very interesting and fun roleplay.

Once enough evidence has been gathered by members, it is up to a set of three KotMC members, which will be called Justicars and will be selected for their honorable fairness in all matters (lol not really), to decide whether or not a trial may be called. At least two of the three must agree that there is sufficient evidence of wrongdoing presented and a trial will be called. At this point the accused will be notified and be asked to attend trial. This is where things get complicated.

If they choose attend the trial, they will have to agree IC to submit to the judgment of the court and suffer punishment accordingly. These trials will usually be public, will be presided over by the three Justicars, and may take place on forums like the IGS or those on the KotMC site in addition to in-game channels. A jury of three (hopefully) neutral capsuleers will be selected by the prosecution team (which will be made up of KotMC members) and the accused/whomever the accused selects to represent them. Then, evidence and arguments made and after the course of perhaps a week or so of intense RP the jury will be asked to make a decision. A majority will be needed to convict or acquit, and since there will be three jurors there will be no ties.

Of course the accused might just tear up their summons, and if this is the case a different sort of trial will be held.

If the accused is not to be present, the trial will be held by the Justicars only. Additionally, a Justicar trial may convict capsuleers publically on the IGS or in private if the matter is too sensitive to allow in the public arena. Each Justicar will be assigned one of three roles in the trial: judge, prosecution, and defense. The judge will decide the ruling and punishment, while it will be the tasks of the prosecution and the defense to convince the judge of what the correct ruling is. This system is meant to be small and unfair so that trials will be relatively quick things. The Justicars will have a little argument and they will probably end in a guilty verdict, since it's the Justicars who decide whether or not the accused needs to be brought to trial in the first place

Enforcement and Punishment

Once all that is done with, time for the stabbing. Here is where some explanation of KotMC ideology will need to come in. Obviously in the case of capsuleers, many punishments are rather moot, especially the death sentence. However, the vast majority of the punishable crimes listed above are capital ones, so how does this work? As the logic goes, you can harm a capsuleer in only three ways: his wallet, his reputation, and his infomorph.

The most obvious thing ISK. KotMC will do 'reverse ransoms', in essence use in-space violence to extract fines from convicted individuals and corps. We war on you until you either pay up, or the cost of the fine has been fulfilled in property damage. It's simple, clean, requires no consent on the part of the enemy, and now good guys can yarr too! I expect this will be the most common form of Knighthood 'law enforcement' that will take place. In addition to fines, individual capsuleers may rack up 'execution debts', where KotMC will endeavor to pod said person a certain number of times. Corpses will be used to decorate Mercy's Keep in various tasteful ways. Hooray for headhunting!

The second avenue of attack is reputation. Pointing at someone and saying "That is a bad person" is one thing. It's a whole other matter when you present evidence, gather others to say the same thing, and use public opinion and political influence against said 'bad person'. Stringing up someone's body for all to see after podding or executing them outside of pod can be a humiliating personal attack. It's the same principle as using the stockades in medieval times. Capsuleers love their reputations, and if you tarnish this, you can sometimes do more harm to them than simply blowing up their ships would. OOC consideration and cooperation will be used in some cases, as this might end up stepping on toes if done wrong. Keep in touch!

The last, and most interesting prospect for RP, is the infomorph. This means mentally damaging a capsuleer, usually through the horrific trauma endured during one of KotMC's executions. I've come up with an idea for a deliciously poetic device I will dub the "Crown of Mercy". It will be a portable brain scanner used to mimic the effects of a pod scanner. They'd be much slower, of course, but since KotMC executions are not going to be of the quick sort, this will not matter. If the Knighthood captures the convicted alive, they will undergo the suitable execution while wearing this device. The more serious the crime, the more painful death. The brain will be left undamaged, and only after the individual loses consciousness will the scanner be activated and their infomorph sent to a new body. This will ensure the person remembers what happened to them, rather than just waking up in a soft-clone backup with no memory of their punishment. After this event, it is up to the player to RP as they wish. Of course, an execution will be an RP-only option, and will only be done with the OOC consent of all parties involved. Consider it an honor if your character ends up going out like this!

If the accused had submitted to trial and/or punishment, this will be taken into account and likely result in a reduced sentence. They will be punished publically, and be considered to have taken a step towards redemption. This can be taken further, however.

KotMC's harshness upon the wicked will have an escape valve. I would like KotMC to become something of a legitimate "redeeming" organization. It is easy to fall out of the Empire's grace, just go pirate or heretic or traitor and you're done. However, getting in good with the Amarr bloc? Not quite so easy. How can players that are looking for a new RP and gameplay experience switch to the Amarr side? Old KotMC was very nice about this: if you did wrong, just start serving the Empire and don't betray us. New KotMC will still want to see former baddies come to their side. But it's not going to be nearly as nice about it. Nuh-uh. You'll have to pay a price.

For a capsuleer to be redeemed in the Knighthood's eyes, they will have to follow a specific regimine of spiritual purification that will be detrimental to your character in certain ways. This is to weed out the silly flip-floppers who change sides on a whim and don't expect to have any IC consequences for their actions. These consequences will include a public confession of all of sins as defined by the Knighthood's principles. Then comes a punishment for each of these sins, perhaps in the form of public humiliation, repeated executions/torture, or joining KotMC as a slave. After set amount of unpleasant experiences, maybe KotMC will kinda sort of like you.

Congratulations, you are now redeemed! Just don't mess up or we'll stab you again.

*******************************************

Wow. That's a wall of text.

Feedback please![/list]
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Gottii on 05 Apr 2012, 20:29
So, where does line for the "Sign up to be a Criminal in KotMC's eyes" begin?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Lyn Farel on 06 Apr 2012, 04:42
Awesome, especially the reverse ransoms (lol) and reputation damage.  :cube:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Desiderya on 06 Apr 2012, 06:44
Sounds fun. Now, it looks like it's a very amarrian organisation - what about non-amarrians joining the cause?
Or broadly spoken, what would be the (IC) requirements for joining. :)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Kybernetes Moros on 06 Apr 2012, 10:16
Oh, hey, this seems neat.

I hope you guys take off; if I ever bring Kyber back, might be fun to go hurl lasers in your general direct. Rabblerabble dangerous religious delusions rabblerabble.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 06 Apr 2012, 10:56
So, where does line for the "Sign up to a Criminal in KotMC's eyes" begin?

Funnily enough, I don't think you'd end up on KotMC's shit list. Minmatar and Gallente organizations that have some semblance of honor, like EM, will be considered respectable foes rather than criminals that need to be put down like dogs. U'K, on the other hand...

Sounds fun. Now, it looks like it's a very amarrian organisation - what about non-amarrians joining the cause?
Or broadly spoken, what would be the (IC) requirements for joining. :)

As said before KotMC's criteria will not be based only on race and religion. A morally decent Caldari or a noble savage Minmatar can find themselves being courted by a KotMC recruiter, just not as easily as an Amarrian. KotMC will look at two colors: black and white. There is only black and white of the soul, not of skin color. Race, however, does raise trust issues, which can be worked out in more detail in RP. Apart from this, combat skill in space will be the other big component of recruitment.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Desiderya on 06 Apr 2012, 14:07
I was more aiming at the question of loyalities to the cause, the empire, the god.
You're aiming for a vigilante group, but is dedication to the cause ( the pursue of "evil"* ) all that is requested, or does this extend to the aforementioned areas, too? If yes, how intensive?

*as defined by the knighthood. Completely independant, grounded in or motivated by amarrian faith/tradition?

I know you've covered some things already, or hinted at them, but I'm still needing more clarification on these points. Besides, you've asked for feedback.  ;)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 07 Apr 2012, 17:12
Ah, I see now. Yes, KotMC is going to be Amarrian loyal and Amarrian based, but flexible in that respect. Its goals will be a bit more broad, and as a capsuleer organizations trying to define the proper role of *all* capsuleers as a self-disciplined warrior class it is going to try to be a bit more universal in its tone and actions. This will include its views on morality, which will be based heavily on Amarrian culture and religion but will incorporate mechanisms that will make sure it concentrates on important matters of life and death rather than nitpicky traditions and vague 'maybe heretical' junk. KotMC will be made up of warriors, not theologians. By the way, the new corp is going to get a heavy dose of Khanid in its new incarnation, so let's just say man's law might be taking the lead over God's law in many instances.

So in summary, the Empire, Kingdom and Mandate will come first (reflected in milita work), but its concerns will reach beyond just home. If an atrocity occurs in Caldari or even Gallente or Minmatar space, KotMC will want the responsible parties to be brought to justice, and will eagerly cooperate with other decent corporations that desire the same. The only place zero shits are given will be nullsec, as the final theoretical goal of the Knighthood will be to keep all people-loving capsuleers in empire borders, while forcing all the asshat selfish ones into nullsec to kill each other for all eternity.

A more detailed post on KotMC values will probably be next. I hope this short blurb will answer your questions though!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Desiderya on 07 Apr 2012, 18:31
Khanid and man's law above god's law sounds good. I'm looking forward to more, but you've answered my questions quite well. The rest might be fuel for IC discussions. ;)
So, consider me interested.  :bear:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Post by: Matariki Rain on 07 Apr 2012, 18:33
[....] the final theoretical goal of the Knighthood will be to keep all people-loving capsuleers in empire borders, while forcing all the asshat selfish ones into nullsec to kill each other for all eternity.

You could base an entire religion on that alone. (Just musing.)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Kybernetes Moros on 08 Apr 2012, 05:50
I've occasionally toyed with the idea of various religions focused on capsuleers, but that's not one I considered. Would be interesting to discuss.

I'm really liking the streamlining you're describing, Aldy. One thing I do tend to see a lot is Amarrian characters placing heavy emphasis on "is this heretical or isn't it?" and getting stuck in theological arguments; while not strictly a bad thing (and some of them can be fairly interesting, IMO), it's somewhat counter-intuitive to the whole "glorious pewpew" thing. Taking the idea from the Signs of Faith chronicle is really neat, too.

Stop making me want to involve myself with you guys. :|
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Repentence Tyrathlion on 08 Apr 2012, 06:14
Definitely liking the sound of this.  I forsee some interesting interactions between TYRIN and KOTMC...
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 08 Apr 2012, 06:18

Stop making me want to involve myself with you guys. :|

Can you continue Aldrith please ? Anything else to add ?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ava Starfire on 08 Apr 2012, 18:49
Hmmmm.

Wonder how KotMC will view Skadi's Call, and our heathen, violent methods?

/me beats a drum and sings to the Spirits, awaiting a response...
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 08 Apr 2012, 20:44
Can you continue Aldrith please ? Anything else to add ?

Hehe, I still have lots of ideas, but they're going to take a while to crank out. Remember, I'm still in the planning phases, and this thread is being used as my notepad. The feedback from you guys is just an added bonus.

Hmmmm.

Wonder how KotMC will view Skadi's Call, and our heathen, violent methods?

/me beats a drum and sings to the Spirits, awaiting a response...

Well, if what you do falls under one of the listed crimes KotMC is going to actively persecute, probably unjustified murder, terrorism or war crimes for your case, there's going to be trouble. Keep your hands off civilians, don't abuse POW's, and keep away from questionable methods as you pursue war against the Empire and our relationship will be that of equal but opposing forces.

Remember, I've got my eye on you...

@_<
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 09 Apr 2012, 05:54
Do you have more details on the KotMC external collaborators you mentionned somewhere above? How do you view them ? Are they just about additional info on foes ? Or do you see them doing more extended collaborative work ?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 09 Apr 2012, 15:12
Do you have more details on the KotMC external collaborators you mentionned somewhere above? How do you view them ? Are they just about additional info on foes ? Or do you see them doing more extended collaborative work ?

Out-of-corp collaborators and the depth of involvment they have will be rather circumstantial, I expect. I can lay out some ground rules or think about some situations involving people cooperating with us, but I'd probably have to play the game with them to figure out what's appropriate.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 11 Apr 2012, 14:37
Heyo, just giving the thread a prod and laying out what will come next. One big thing I've always wanted to do for KotMC even for its old incarnation was to have a list of sayings, catechism, battle cries and other short tidbits that reflect the corp's outlook and philosphies. This will be the next thing I work on, and I'll both be writing some of my own as well as taking little bits from history and poems and songs, with a few tweaks here and there. I'd also like to invite you guys to suggest some if you're interested!

Until then, I can't resist but to post this. I've been listening to this song non-stop for the past few days, and have concluded it should be KotMC's new theme song. Florence + the Machine fans will be elated... or very very jelly. :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBcXe2B97TQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBcXe2B97TQ)

Seven Devils - Florence + the Machine

Holy water cannot help you now
A thousand armies couldn't keep me out
I don't want your money
I don't want your crown
See I've come to burn
Your kingdom down

Holy water cannot help you now
See I've had to burn your kingdom down
And no rivers and no lakes, can put the fire out
I'm gonna raise the stakes; I'm gonna smoke you out

Seven devils all around me
Seven devils in my house
See they were there when I woke up this morning
I'll be dead before the day is done

Seven devils all around you
Seven devils in your house
See I was dead when I woke up this morning
See I was dead before the day is done
Before the day is done

And now all your love will be exorcised
And we will find you saying it's to be paradox
And it's an even sum
It's a melody
It's a battle cry
It's a symphony

Seven devils all around me
Seven devils in my house
See they were there when I woke up this morning
I'll be dead before the day is done

Seven devils all around you
Seven devils in your house
See I was dead when I woke up this morning
I'll be dead before the day is done
Before the day is done
Before the day is done
Before the day is done

You can keep me out
'Til I tear the walls
'Til I take your hearts
And I take your souls
What has been done
Cannot be undone
In the evil's heart
In the evil's soul

Seven devils all around you
Seven devils in your house
See I was dead when I woke up this morning
I'll be dead before the day is done
Before the day is done

Note: All of the sites that list the song's lyrics seem a bit dodgey. I tried to piece together the correct lyrics from what I could hear, but if anyone has an official verson I could repost that'd be nice. Thanks!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 11 Apr 2012, 15:08
Oh, no more Knights of Cydonia ? :p
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 11 Apr 2012, 15:12
Much too cheery.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 11 Apr 2012, 16:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlicWUDf5MM is all I need for inspiration.  :D
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mitara Newelle on 12 Apr 2012, 10:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlicWUDf5MM is all I need for inspiration.  :D

And there goes my work day.....
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 12 Apr 2012, 10:19
They're too good, I know. But to clarify for the purpose of this thread I was referring to "If it bleeds we can kill it."
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 12 Apr 2012, 12:53
"If it bleeds we can kill it" was effectively the slogan for the Battle Angels corp, IIRC. You can't take that it's already taken :P

... is what I intended to say, along with a link to the sigs they used. Then I realized it was just a slogan used by one member, Dash. (He also incoporated a scene from Predator into his sig, fittingly enough.)

...and that the entire idea that "you can't take this it was once used by others" is bull, use it to your hearts content.<3

And lastly a little besides the point... in my search for their sigs I ran into a site called evewho.com (http://evewho.com/) and like the function they provide.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Tiberious Thessalonia on 12 Apr 2012, 14:44
Off topic, but EVEwho is great and we have used it to good effect.  :twisted:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 12 Apr 2012, 14:58
/me EVEwho's ALL the potential enemies!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 12 Apr 2012, 15:17
/me EVEwho's ALL the potential enemies!

Oh god, what have I done!?

[spoiler]/me is so doing this for all future war-targets[/spoiler]

In all seriousness however and back on topic, I am really looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I've played with the idea of coming back to EVE and doing a Federation-themed corp of the same type.

...only now if I ever do I'll be considered unoriginal because Aldrith and co. beat me to the punch. :cry:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 12 Apr 2012, 15:22
Aw come on, don't let that stop you! We need noble yet harsh bastions of kickassery in all the empires! We can all even have overt rivalries countered with silent, begruding respect, and we might even on occassion work together to take down pirates and Sansha!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 12 Apr 2012, 17:02
And now that you said that it does sound extremely tempting.

God damn you.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mizhara on 12 Apr 2012, 21:17
/me grabs that Evewho link and runs off wooping.

Best website ever!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 16 Apr 2012, 11:37
I bring inspiration.

Quote from: Pratchett
If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you are going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.
They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the murder like another man will put off a good cigar.
So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 16 Apr 2012, 11:46
Strange. I never considered Alexander Allisieer to be a good man.

Well said, though I'm not sure it's to correct. (We might have a talk about that some other time.)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 16 Apr 2012, 11:57
I bring inspiration.

Quote from: Pratchett
If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you are going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.
They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the murder like another man will put off a good cigar.
So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.

That's a damn sexy quote. Where's it from, and may I butcher it a little to make it into a more Amarrian-flavored catch-phrasey thing?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Tiberious Thessalonia on 16 Apr 2012, 12:06
That's Terry Pratchet, one of the Discworld novels (not sure which one).  He's got all sorts of neat little things like that that actually make his insane fantasy setting quite dark.

One of my favorites is that "Ankh-Morpork (The biggest city in the world) has a very low murder rate.  It has a very high suicide rate.  You decide to take a swim in the Ankh (river) and you just committed suicide.  You walk down (particularly nasty street)?  Suicide.  Walk into a bar full of trolls and talk about how their mothers got a little too friendly with some rocks somewhere down the line?  Suicide!"

And that therefore the city watch doesn't have to get involved in TOO much.  Just the really bad stuff.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Tiberious Thessalonia on 16 Apr 2012, 12:06
Also, that quote about evil men was -probably- in reference to the Evil Overlord who rules Ankh-Morpork, though honestly he seems to get good advice and probably counts as a 'good guy' on that list.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Jev North on 16 Apr 2012, 12:26
The suicide quote is basically Jevvykins' justification for piracy in a nutshell. How is it her fault if you're stupid enough to end up in point range, under the several frankly oversized-calibre guns a crazy infomorph bolted to her ship? Things just take their natural course from there.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 16 Apr 2012, 12:36
A whole lot of pirates justify their acts that way. Most of Veto does, I recall. Good luck trying to state that in Mercy's Keep, however; you wouldn't leave with all of your limbs! ;3
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Repentence Tyrathlion on 16 Apr 2012, 14:38
Also, that quote about evil men was -probably- in reference to the Evil Overlord who rules Ankh-Morpork, though honestly he seems to get good advice and probably counts as a 'good guy' on that list.

It's from Men at Arms, and it's not actually a Vetinari reference.  It's used twice - first (the evil) in reference to an assassin, the second (the good) to Captain Carrot, who as the quote states, kills the bad guy without a word.  Big fan of the City Watch stuff, myself.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 16 Apr 2012, 14:42
A whole lot of pirates justify their acts that way. Most of Veto does, I recall. Good luck trying to state that in Mercy's Keep, however; you wouldn't leave with all of your limbs! ;3

It's often more a "you went into the attic without a lantern, it's your own fucking fault if you get eaten by a Grue" sort of justification than "but but but THEY LANDED IN MY LAP".

The "preying on capsuleers causes less death and destruction than on baseliner-run vessels" approach is the only one that has any actual sense or logic to it beyond the self-convincing aspect, though.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 16 Apr 2012, 15:50
The watch novels are definitely a treat. And yes, the quote is from Men at arms. 
Pratchett manages it to write gripping stories that offer varieties to smile and give food for thought.

Here's another one I like, not really related to the topic at hand, though.
Quote from: Going Postal
Always remember that the crowd that applauds your coronation is the same crowd that will applaud your beheading. People like a show.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ulphus on 16 Apr 2012, 17:57
It's often more a "you went into the attic without a lantern, it's your own fucking fault if you get eaten by a Grue" sort of justification than "but but but THEY LANDED IN MY LAP".


"If she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have been walking through that park on her own"

Not convinced.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 16 Apr 2012, 18:03
It's often more a "you went into the attic without a lantern, it's your own fucking fault if you get eaten by a Grue" sort of justification than "but but but THEY LANDED IN MY LAP".


"If she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have been walking through that park on her own"

Not convinced.

... Um, what? I wasn't saying anything of the sort, let alone trying to convince anyone of anything.

Please read my post - the entire post, including the context of what it quoted - another time, and try again.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 16 Apr 2012, 18:29
lol, calm down people this isn't a thread about the justifications of piracy. In this thread we already know they're evil, the only debate is about what kind of sharp object ought to be used to make them hurt. ;)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Gottii on 16 Apr 2012, 21:52
lol, calm down people this isn't a thread about the justifications of piracy. In this thread we already know they're evil, the only debate is about what kind of sharp object ought to be used to make them hurt. ;)

So, how can I convince you EM is dishonorable enough for you to decide to shoot at us?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ulphus on 16 Apr 2012, 22:22
So, how can I convince you EM is dishonorable enough for you to decide to shoot at us?

I think he's already said we'd count as honourable enemies to be shot at with respect, instead of mutilated, impaled, and dragged through the streets behind neon-painted hoverbikes.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Gottii on 16 Apr 2012, 23:04
But I want to have an enemy who wants to ...do all those horrible things to us.

 I mean, it shows he cares more.    :(
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 17 Apr 2012, 01:27
Awww, don't feel left out! You just have to blow up a few busloads of Amarrian schoolchildren and Aldy will be murdering you in your sleep in no time.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Gottii on 17 Apr 2012, 11:57
I probably shouldnt be so eager to draw Aldy's ire.

After all, a man married to Mitnara for so long has probably forgotten more about pain and suffering than any of us will ever know....  :D
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Jev North on 17 Apr 2012, 13:10
A whole lot of pirates justify their acts that way. Most of Veto does, I recall. Good luck trying to state that in Mercy's Keep, however; you wouldn't leave with all of your limbs! ;3
That's only fair. And leads to an interesting question: if you leave Mercy's Keep without your head, do you really leave Mercy's Keep?

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ava Starfire on 17 Apr 2012, 16:22
/me prepares the dynamite
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 17 Apr 2012, 17:33
Alright, I know I said I was going to do the whole sayings and catechisms things first, but I got a bolt of inspiration last night and am instead going to do an outline of how slavery will be practiced by the Knighthood. Also, to get me into the right mode for when I have to finalize all of these rules, I'm going to write it from an IC perspective as though this would be what was to appear on the KotMC forums. I wish myself luck...

Section I: Introduction - The Knighthood of the Merciful Crown shall indulge in the institution of slavery to an extent it deems prudent and just, as to be laid out by this document, and hereby accepts responsibility for the physical, mental and spiritual wellbeing of those in its most merciful and benevolent care.

Section II: Reasons - The practice of corrective enslavement shall be used in lieu of imprisonment, which is a wasteful and unreasonable practice that does no service to humanity, its societies or the heavenly mandate of God, Lord and Protector of all mankind in its meekness and ignorance. It is for the purpose of (re-)education and enculturation that this Order shall practice the bondage of its fellow man, with the final intent of releasing morally upstanding and peaceable individuals into the freedmen’s nations of origin, and to provide non-profit based labor to particular businesses, initiatives and enterprises deemed worthy of this charity by the Grand Master and his Counsel.

Section III: Proprietorship – No individual considered to be a knight or employee of the Knighthood of the Merciful Crown shall be allowed exclusive ownership over another man or woman. All slaves considered to be under the control of the Order shall be under the direct control of the Order itself and its leadership, and not any single member of that body. Should an initiate be found to already hold slave stock as property, that slave stock must be legally sold to proper third parties, legally freed, or donated to the Order before that initiate be sworn in as a brother or sister of the Order. Disciplinary action shall apply should a knight retain personal ownership of any slave after joining the Knighthood in full. Once legal ownership has been transferred, the leadership may choose delegate responsibility of the slaves back upon the donator, or they may be utilized for other purposes as subject to the discretion of the leadership. Upon exiting the Knighthood a knight may request that the Order consider returning ownership of his former slave stock.

Section IV: Limitation of Proprietorship - Hence this decree, no slave shall ever be kept by the Knighthood of the Merciful Crown for the sake of profit, luxury, or propagation of the institution of slavery itself. The enfeeblement of mind, weakness of spirit and laziness of body these reasons cause is to never be allowed by any knight to enter their character, nor by the Order to enter its ranks. Additionally, no enslaved individual may be used to crew a Knighthood combat ship, or otherwise be placed in an inordinately dangerous situation for the sake of convenience of effort or cost.

Section V: Subjects – The Knighthood of the Merciful Crown shall take and retain slaves of only two types: prisoners of honorably conducted warfare, and committers of/accomplices to criminal acts (as deemed criminal by the Order). Any slaves that are in bondage through accident of birth or abduction from peaceful occupations shall be freed or donated to other organizations/individuals as considered prudent by the leadership. The Order shall consider any individual captured on the field of battle as its property, to be utilized or tried for crimes at its behest.

Section VI: Practice – The labor of Knighthood slave stock may be used by the Order itself for limited purposes, such as to to staff hangars, offices, its headquarters and other low-risk, low-importance positions. All other slaves will be outsourced as rental labor to entities and individuals of the Order’s choice. Rental charges shall be collected at a rate that is only enough to cover the Order’s administrative costs for management. All renters shall agree to the Order’s terms for slave treatment. A slave may not be worked for more than ten hours a day. For every eight hours of labor, at least one hour of religious or academic education must be administered to them. No Vitoxin, transcranial microcontrollers or similar methods and devices may be used for the purpose of slave control amongst the Order’s slave holdings. Glaive collars may be used in exceptional cases, and may only be administered with the consent of the Order. If a method of control exceeding this is deemed to be required, it shall be administered by the Order and not the renter. Slaves may be donated to select mining corporations if they prove to be beyond the Order’s methods of control.

Section VII: Terms of Release – Slaves taken as prisoners of war shall be utilized until the war they were captured in has ended, they are used in a fair and equal prisoner exchange or they are unable to perform basic labor. If any of these conditions are met they will be released to their nation of origin. Slaves taken as criminals will not be eligible for prisoner exchange, and will only be released if the Order deems them capable of living law-abiding and peaceful lives in their nation of origin.


So, TL;DR version of this:

The Knighthood will do slavery. No member can own their own slaves, they are all owned by the corp. Slaves are loaned out to needy people on a non-profit basis, but ownership is retained and KotMC gets to decide how they’re treated, which will be well but firm. POW slaves will be released as per normal terms for prisoners of war, while criminal slaves will be released depending on how well they behave. Belief in the Amarr faith is not an express term for release, but can help.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Gottii on 17 Apr 2012, 19:56
Slavers  \o/   

Seriously, awesome stuff. 
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 18 Apr 2012, 05:30
Considering the vast majority of horror-stories I've seen Minmatar toons cook up, this is about as lenient and harmless as it gets.

You are likely to get flak from more hard-ass Amarr over this, but I'm pretty sure you don't care to much about that ;)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 18 Apr 2012, 05:38
From experience he is also going to get a lot of flak from Minmatars too. Probably a lot more than amarrian hardliners. It was already the case with the first KotMC, and it was more laxist. While it was expected from hardliners to be like they are to a minmatar point of view, they never really understood KotMC liberal stances, or just did not want to understand it as it was often breaking a dark/white view they tried to keep at any cost.

Great stuff anyway. \o/
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ava Starfire on 18 Apr 2012, 06:24
From experience he is also going to get a lot of flak from Minmatars too. Probably a lot more than amarrian hardliners. It was already the case with the first KotMC, and it was more laxist. While it was expected from hardliners to be like they are to a minmatar point of view, they never really understood KotMC liberal stances, or just did not want to understand it as it was often breaking a dark/white view they tried to keep at any cost.

Great stuff anyway. \o/

Oh, I can think of a certain Minmatar who never gave KotMC much grief at all...
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 18 Apr 2012, 06:58
Unlike how it might sound, I have never complained and have always considered this as pretty much normal for something IC. And yes, I remember that certain Minmatar. ^^
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 18 Apr 2012, 07:20
Looks good, but the only thing that's coming to mind is a bunch of Samaras singing the Soviet anthem.

Communist Justicars. xP
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 18 Apr 2012, 07:29
Looks good, but the only thing that's coming to mind is a bunch of Samaras singing the Soviet anthem.

Communist Justicars. xP

I can envision this.

*Hides in a hole*
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 19 Apr 2012, 00:35
Hmmm, only thing I don't like is that since this was done IC as an official set of regulations I didn't get to show much of the reasoning behind it.

So the basic philosophy behind this is as follow:

1.) KotMC is mainly concerned with punishing the evil, and in keeping with this it is only interested in slavery as a punishment, namely as a cheap, low-effort alternative to prisons. Any slaves that only need enlightening in the hands of a proper Holder need not, and will not, be kept.

2.) Knights are supposed to be warriors, not property owners or politicians, and taking slaves out of the control of individual members makes sure they can concentrate on fighting. This also means Holders who want to join have to make a moral sacrifice to be accepted. I consider it akin to a vow of poverty and humility, and without slaves a Holder cannot maintain much political power either. You give up wealth and power to make sure you are free to do the right thing.

3.) Sending out slaves as non-profit charity labor increases the Kighthood's standing with baseliner Holders and organizations.

4.) Corp-owned slaves means uniform standards for their treatment can be maintained. Nobody can whine about an individual member who is either too lenient or too harsh on his slaves.

5.) Any capsuleer slaves are beholden to the corp, not a particular member, preventing micro-loyalties from forming.

6.) This is a fairly neutral form of slavery. It's meant to be a middle-ground between many different ideas of the practice, including ideas from outside the Amarr-faithful nations, while still keeping in-line with new KotMC's strict moralistic bent. Only POW's and criminals are given the shackles, those freed are returned to their nations rather than becoming Amarr citizens, and this slavery is strictly for the benefit of the enslaved and society (all societies) rather than the personal profit of a Holder or the corp.

7.) By returning freed slaves to their nations of origin rather than making them Amarrian citizens, several things are accomplished. Firstly, it allows the freedom to release unenlightened individuals, rather than being stuck with troublemakers that will only screw up Amarrian society if they're let loose. This is ideal for POW's since they only need to be kept for as long as they are a threat to KotMC's interests. Secondly, anyone that does become enlightened will end up spreading the Amarr faith in their nations of origin. Instant missionaries! Thirdly, and this should be obvious, it makes the Knighthood look better to outsiders, while not pissing conservative Amarrians off too much. 'Look kids, grandpa is coming back since he's too old to fight and he doesn't need to be kept as a POW anymore! And don't worry Mr. Holder, he couldn't work anyway so it's no big loss. But he's still unenlightened heathen? Oh well, he was bound to die and burn in hell soon anyway so who cares.'

I'm trying to think of ways to make all of this reasoning clear IC besides having to talk to people personally... hm.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 19 Apr 2012, 04:18
Quote
I'm trying to think of ways to make all of this reasoning clear IC besides having to talk to people personally... hm.

I think details like this should be written up internally, so that every member knows why the rules are the rules and can represent them if challenged. If it's out there it sounds too much like a justification in the style of "but hey, look, it's not that bad", instead of a foundation, which should be clear by a corp description ( ie, the punishment of evil thing ).
People should be able to figure out the motivations behind the actions, but you shouldn't make it too easy, too, as this can be all summarized as "things that lead to IC talks/scenes".
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 19 Apr 2012, 14:44
Hmmm, you got a point there. Maybe I should quit posting here; I think I have given things enough thought and gotten enough feedback to know what I want to do already and KotMC is going to need some mystique behind it. At this point this is just a big spoiler thread.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 19 Apr 2012, 15:24
Wrong.

At this rate this is a huge recruitment tread.

You would however be better served with keeping the rest IC and in-corp, for enemies (hated and respected) and allies alike to discover and react to.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mitara Newelle on 19 Apr 2012, 16:35
I probably shouldnt be so eager to draw Aldy's ire.

After all, a man married to Mitnara for so long has probably forgotten more about pain and suffering than any of us will ever know....  :D

Hey now!!!

 :D
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 19 Apr 2012, 18:37
Hmmm, you got a point there. Maybe I should quit posting here; I think I have given things enough thought and gotten enough feedback to know what I want to do already and KotMC is going to need some mystique behind it. At this point this is just a big spoiler thread.

By no means stop posting!
At some point in the future this KOTMC-idea-thread will probably depos(i)t itself.
You may be right about some things. 'Insider secrets' should not be spoiled. But the general gist and public side of that project should not be hidden. Say a recruitment thread, the 'What is KOTMC and why should I want to behead people?'-thread, or a evelopedia page. These are the ones that shouldn't contain overly explanatory OOC reasonings, as these are the locations people will look first.
Give people hints of the 'behind-the-curtain' activities there. Taking up the slavery example that might be the 'public statement' that slaves are property of the knighthood, and not individuals, and are used as the knighthood seems fit. That opens a nice window for interpretations, both naughty and nice.

Besides I'd be a very sad panda if I don't get my regular hype boost from you. Bloodbird is right, this is a recruitment thread.
And yeah, it's laaaate and I should've been in bed one hour ago, so I hope no one wants to kill me now for the convoluted sentences above - this one included, tax free even!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 19 Apr 2012, 20:11
I probably shouldnt be so eager to draw Aldy's ire.

After all, a man married to Mitnara for so long has probably forgotten more about pain and suffering than any of us will ever know....  :D

Hey now!!!

 :D

Haha, yeah, Mitty is a complete kitten in Aldy's arms. She only becomes a lioness when she's mad. Or randy.

By no means stop posting!
At some point in the future this KOTMC-idea-thread will probably depos(i)t itself.
You may be right about some things. 'Insider secrets' should not be spoiled. But the general gist and public side of that project should not be hidden. Say a recruitment thread, the 'What is KOTMC and why should I want to behead people?'-thread, or a evelopedia page. These are the ones that shouldn't contain overly explanatory OOC reasonings, as these are the locations people will look first.
Give people hints of the 'behind-the-curtain' activities there. Taking up the slavery example that might be the 'public statement' that slaves are property of the knighthood, and not individuals, and are used as the knighthood seems fit. That opens a nice window for interpretations, both naughty and nice.

Besides I'd be a very sad panda if I don't get my regular hype boost from you. Bloodbird is right, this is a recruitment thread.
And yeah, it's laaaate and I should've been in bed one hour ago, so I hope no one wants to kill me now for the convoluted sentences above - this one included, tax free even!

Hmmm, alright alright, though I am starting to think I should leave the rest to be discovered in-game when it's actually up again and doing things. I'll keep doing rough notes here and the polished stuff I'll save for May.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Katrina Oniseki on 19 Apr 2012, 20:30
I probably shouldnt be so eager to draw Aldy's ire.

After all, a man married to Mitnara for so long has probably forgotten more about pain and suffering than any of us will ever know....  :D

Hey now!!!

 :D

Haha, yeah, Mitty is a complete kitten in Aldy's arms.

I would pay ISK to see that. Mitara kitten would be adorable.

Then again, I'm a sucker for romance stories.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 20 Apr 2012, 06:05
There is never too much RP material, the more people can read, the more they will get the desired feel and atmosphere, and it will also help the creator to sharpen his idea as well. Only things that are to be kept behind closed doors are not to be disclosed, or at best, subtly hinted.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 20 Apr 2012, 07:24
Ideally people should get a general idea and get hooked, trying to think about it and start IC topics about the thing. If you make everything easily accessible - even in an OOC fashion - it will quickly dissipate into IC knowledge and eliminate the need for interaction.
At least in my opinion.

Tease, don't strip.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 20 Apr 2012, 07:51
Tease, don't strip.

Ald knows all about teasing. Asshole. :(
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 20 Apr 2012, 22:32
Tease, don't strip.

Ald knows all about teasing. Asshole. :(

I did not have sexual relations with that woman. And apparently she's upset about it.  :eek:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 20 Apr 2012, 22:44
Tease, don't strip.

Ald knows all about teasing. Asshole. :(

I did not have sexual relations with that woman. And apparently she's upset about it.  :eek:

Nah. She just likes giving you shit about it within Mitara's earshot. :D
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mitara Newelle on 20 Apr 2012, 22:52
Tease, don't strip.

Ald knows all about teasing. Asshole. :(

I did not have sexual relations with that woman. And apparently she's upset about it.  :eek:

Nah. She just likes giving you shit about it within Mitara's earshot. :D

 :mad:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 20 Apr 2012, 22:57
Crap, here comes the lioness... Nice going, Morlag!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 21 Apr 2012, 04:41
Ideally people should get a general idea and get hooked, trying to think about it and start IC topics about the thing. If you make everything easily accessible - even in an OOC fashion - it will quickly dissipate into IC knowledge and eliminate the need for interaction.
At least in my opinion.

Tease, don't strip.

This is why secret and hidden stuff and things that only initiates are going to see had to be kept behind closed doors. This is where the teasing lies. What I meant above is that besides this - which is as you say a fundamental part of advertising your corp - it is always good to bring almost more public material than expected. Like I said in the other thread about pirates corps, a lot of RP corps, pirates or not, are not always presenting a lot of public material. Sometimes, we do not even know what they really stand for. They keep all internal. This is bad, imo. It is what can interest other RPers to interact with you, and also shows the idea and the atmosphere of the corp. It is not only a good recruiting tool, but it is also a good OOC advertiser because no RPer will ever get interested in your corp if they do not know what its about. It will only look like the average eve corp.

A corp with a lot of RP material and feel will inevitably make people say "Oh, you mean THAT corp with all these crazy vigilante that want to bring to trial and torture all the bad guys in the name of God ?", while a corp with very little RP public material will always end up in "Who ? I don't remember them." or "Ah, them, I know them because I see them often, but I am not sure what their RP is about".
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 21 Apr 2012, 07:47
Yes, you're right. Which is why I've said: Keep on posting, Aldrith, or we're all going to create alts pretending to have cheated with Ald so that he'll face private hell!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 22 Apr 2012, 14:21
Bleh, too many ideas, too many things to write, too many things to keep track of. I need to organize and prioritize if I want to be back before Inferno.

Things that must be done before corp reformation:

1. Corp rules
2. Set up new forums
3. Begin Manifesto of the Encapsuled Knight (will be a damn big project, I expect it to be something I will write over a few months as I get time)
4. Short story explaining Ald's change in character (I could leave this a mystery to come out in RP but since it will involve Ald's family, which includes Mitty, it will affect Mit's RP too. Though I could just lay out the background for him... hm.)

Things that can be done after

1. History of Mercy's Keep
2. History of The Order of the Weeping Sun (Ger'Ante Otheiran's cyberknight order and the official owners of Mercy's Keep)
3. KotMC Evelopedia page
4. Aldrith Evelopedia page
5. Get voicecomms server depending on needs

Extras

1. Commission artwork
2. Plan some RP events (Currently thinking of hosting an annual arts festival. Classy knights are classy.)
3. Think of more stuff to do

Hurr. This all feels like homework now. Exciting, fun homework, but homework nonetheless.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 23 Apr 2012, 08:09
Yes, you're right. Which is why I've said: Keep on posting, Aldrith, or we're all going to create alts pretending to have cheated with Ald so that he'll face private hell!

No cheating was involved, just friendly snuggles. :(

If you want a hand with something, Aldrith, you know where to reach me. :3
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 23 Apr 2012, 09:41
Dammit you heathen woman, I'm trying to plan my glorious return in a blaze of fire and blood! No room for snuggles in this!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: kalaratiri on 23 Apr 2012, 09:45
Sure? :3
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Tiberious Thessalonia on 23 Apr 2012, 13:33
Hey hey hey.  Can we get in on this snuggle fest?  :extends tendrils:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 23 Apr 2012, 13:36
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oxftr/ (http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oxftr/)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 23 Apr 2012, 13:41
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oxfmc/ (http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oxfmc/)

The word is cuddlesluts, TYVFM.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 23 Apr 2012, 13:51
Fixed for honor.

Also, new Aldrith is Ned Stark in the body of Jon Snow with the anger of Robb Stark. Game of Thrones FTW.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mitara Newelle on 23 Apr 2012, 14:00
No cheating was involved, just friendly snuggles. :(

 :eek: WTF!? 

Rawrrr!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Gottii on 23 Apr 2012, 14:24
Dammit you heathen woman, I'm trying to plan my glorious return in a blaze of fire and blood! No room for snuggles in this!

So what you're saying is that youre looking to snuggle with big, burly heathen men?

This can be arranged.....
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 23 Apr 2012, 14:31
No cheating was involved, just friendly snuggles. :(

 :eek: WTF!? 

Rawrrr!

It was, of course, before Aldrith was actually dating Mitara, so NYAH. :P
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 23 Apr 2012, 17:32
Now, to distract from that derailment and horrific train wreck that lead to the deaths of 436 innocent kittens, I will outline KotMC's rank structure.

Knighthood Ranks & Titles

Ranks

Grand Master -

Seneschal -

Master -

Knight -

Squire -

Repentant (Slave) -

Titles

Justicar of the Robe -

Justicar of the Sword -

Justicar of the Shield -

Castilian -

Chaplain -

Champion -

Errant -

Headsman -

Inquisitor -

Smith -

*   *   *

Descriptions may come soon. Currently deciding if I should go the full IC path to explanation, just do brief teasers for each, or leave them all blank to be explained only to people who join and who RP with us. I think most smart people would be able to figure out what's going on, however.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 25 Apr 2012, 15:11
Decided. No descriptions for you! RoE instead. Please note this is not in a strictly IC voice:

In-space rules of engagement depend upon the diplomatic standings we hold with certain pilots and organizations. Knighthood pilots will be expected to respect these standings and rules to the best of their abilities and in accordance with their greater judgment.

If you violate these rules you will be asked to reimburse any victims of wrongful aggression to a degree decided upon by the leadership. Failure to comply or repeated offenses may result in punishment by demotion or removal from the corp.

**************************************************************

Red (-5.1 to -10): Kill on Sight

Red standings denote organizations and pilots that are:

*At war or soon to be at war with KotMC.
*Enemies of the Empire or Knighthood, either based upon role-play or in-space action.
*Proven neutral support of such enemies.
*Scumbags of varied assortment.

Neutral pilots that are of 'red' security status (below -5.0) follow the same RoE as those with red diplomatic standings.

RoE:

When the opportunity presents itself you are encouraged to fire upon pilots with theses standings, taking GCC if you must. No provocation is necessary.

You may NOT:

*Fleet with reds unless temporarily to destroy a greater, already imminent threat prior to the formation of the fleet. You may not actively roam with reds.
*Remote repair, provide intel to or otherwise support reds, unless at the expense of others with negative standings or in active GCC.


Orange (-0.1 to -5): Caution

Orange standings denote organizations and pilots that are:

*Known to pirate, support pirates, or otherwise fire upon neutrals without provocation.
*Have aggressed Amarr Militia or KotMC pilots without provocation.
*Under suspicion of aiding wartargets, or reds.

Neutral pilots that are of 'yellow' security status (-0.0 to -4.9) follow the same RoE as those with orange diplomatic standing.

RoE:

Not explicitly kill-on-sight but most will be effectively KoS due to low security status. All pilots are advised to use caution when in the same area. If an orange is above -5.0 security status (and thus cannot be aggressed without taking GCC) they may be engaged if they make at least ONE example of threatening behavior in the list provided under the Neutrals section. If they do not, do not aggress or you may be subject to a minor punishment.

You may NOT:

*Fleet with oranges unless temporarily to destroy a greater, already imminent threat prior to the formation of the fleet. You may not actively roam with oranges.
*Remote repair, provide intel to or otherwise support oranges, unless at the expense of others with negative standings or in active GCC.


Neutral (No Set Standings):

Neutral standings denote organizations and pilots that are:

*Are unknown to KotMC diplomatically.
*Do not aid nor hinder the efforts of the Amarr Militia, Amarr loyalists or KotMC.
*Not under suspicion of being hostile or aiding hostiles.

RoE:

You may not fire upon a neutral pilot unless provoked or ordered to do so by an approved Fleet Commander only. (List TBA) If the FC is a member of KotMC then the one giving the order is still subject to these rules, but those following his orders are not. Sufficient provocation includes clear evidence or high likelihood of aiding the enemy or pirates, or at least TWO examples of threatening behavior. Proper examples are listed below.

AIDING THE ENEMY
 1. Flying an industrial ship, freighter or other large cargo-carrying vessel through or into Minmatar or Gallente FW territory.
 2. Obvious scouting of a gate or system frequented by militia forces.
 3. Speed-tanking, destroying, or otherwise interfering with Amarrian rats.
 4. Potentially providing gang-link bonuses to a hostile fleet.
 5. Opening or potentially opening a cynosural field for hostiles forces.
 6. Proven alternative character of a wartarget or red.

THREATENING BEHAVIOR
 1. Locking (yellow-boxing) your ship or the ship of a friendly.
 2. Bumping.
 3. Orbiting at an optimal range.
 4. Entering your FW complex, mission, exploration site or safe spot.
 5. Accelerating directly towards your ship or the ship of a friendly.
 6. Attempting to decloak you.
 7. Following you.
 8. Accompanying reds, oranges or pirates.
 9. Looting, salvaging or destroying wrecks owned by you or friendlies.
 10. Using an Area-of-Effect weapon (smartbombs, ECM bursts, ect.) while you are on grid.
 11. Gate camping or loitering in the warzone.


*NOTE: For any kill made on a non-GCC neutral you should inform the Grand Master, Seneschal or a Master, along with an explanation of why the kill was made and any proof you can offer to support your claims. Your word will be taken above that of the pilot you destroyed, but if there are unbiased witnesses that contradict your story the leadership will investigate the incident and you may be further punished for lying about your reasoning.

There are no fleeting or aid restrictions for neutrals.


Light Blue (+0.1 to +5.0): Non-Aggression Pact

Light blue standings denote organizations or pilots that are:

*Operating in Caldari or Amarrian space and are known to be generally peaceful, anti-pirate or aid loyalists.
*Provide direct support to KotMC, but are otherwise questionable (pirate, operate in enemy territory, ect.).
*Have negotiated standings to avoid hostile incidents in-space.

RoE:

You may only aggress a light blue after they have opened fire upon you or openly aided an enemy. Try to avoid destroying their ship and instead drive them away, as an incident of blue-on-blue hostility is a diplomatic issue that is made more difficult when incriminating killmails are involved. Notify the Grand Master, Seneschal or a diplomatic liaison immediately after such an incident.

There are no fleeting or aid restrictions for light blues.


Dark Blue (+5.1 to +10): Ally

Dark blue standings denote organizations and pilots that are:

*Staunch and proven allies of the Empire, either through RP or in-space action.
*Provide direct support to KotMC.
*Have arranged diplomatic standings to establish a relationship of long-term cooperation and friendship with KotMC.

RoE:

You may only aggress a dark blue when they have fired upon you or openly aided a hostile. If you can, immediately leave the area and open a dialogue to figure out what is going on. If your ship is pointed, you may fight ONLY to the extent of getting your ship and other friendly ships out of danger. If this is impossible then you may fight until destruction, but as this would be a serious diplomatic issue further hostilities should not be provoked by itchy trigger-fingers. Immediately notify the Grand Master, Seneschal, or diplomatic liaison of the situation, providing as much detail as you can.

There are no fleeting or aid restrictions for dark blues.

NULL SECURITY SPACE ROE:

For all intents and purposes we follow a loose NBSI ("Not Blue, Shoot It") RoE when in 0.0 space. This is because the vast majority of players in 0.0 follow this same RoE and strict rules on who can be engaged when, where and how are impractical in such an environment. An individual may conduct themselves as they see fit, but no punishments will apply for firing upon neutrals. Firing upon blues, however, is still strictly prohibited.


*   *   *

This is taken directly from the old KotMC forums. I have been pondering making them more strict, but I don't think it's needed. It would be annoying to put this into IC terms too, since concepts like alts can't be effectively delt with in an IC tone.

I like the idea of our RoE being public knowledge since it lets people outside the corp know they can report violations of it and they will be delt with.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 25 Apr 2012, 15:35
Too complicated imo. Threatening behaviors and aiding the enemy are good examples (except this one AIDING THE ENEMY 1. Flying an industrial ship, freighter or other large cargo-carrying vessel through or into Minmatar or Gallente FW territory ????), but imo its not up to the average member to decide what to do. I would instead ask them to report it and make the leadership decide if the guy in question is to be set red/orange accordingly.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 25 Apr 2012, 15:54
Agreed. That bit was leftover from the times I had to appease ex-piratey sorts to make sure they didn't bitch and leave. Will be changed. However, I'm not sure how I could make things more simple without seriously gimping adaptability on the battlefield.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ulphus on 25 Apr 2012, 15:55
Quote
AIDING THE ENEMY
1. Flying an industrial ship, freighter or other large cargo-carrying vessel through or into Minmatar or Gallente FW territory.

Does this give your pilots free reign to shoot at neutral haulers who are in the war zone?

Generally your RoE are very similar to EM, except for this one; although we phrase it all IC.

Alts are usually associates - they're obviously being paid to help out (my hauling alt actually charges me for runs, 100k per low-sec jump. How rude is that?)

I disagree with Lyn that it's too complicated. It mostly works. For the average pilot, it's "trust your overview". If the overview is wrong, the Alliance will reimburse. If the pilot makes a choice to shoot a neutral and is wrong, then the pilot might be asked to reimburse if they got it wrong. That allows us to give leeway to decisions by the pilot on the spot, without them shooting neutrals unless they're pretty sure they're right.

edited to add:
Also, for blue-on-blue, we ask people not to shoot back, and the alliance will reimburse if we can't get the blue to.


Quote
For all intents and purposes we follow a loose NBSI ("Not Blue, Shoot It") RoE when in 0.0 space. This is because the vast majority of players in 0.0 follow this same RoE and strict rules on who can be engaged when, where and how are impractical in such an environment.

This bit is actually significantly different - I obviously wasn't reading thoroughly enough (distracted by a neutral hauler)... We don't shoot neutrals anywhere (unless they're being naughty).

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 25 Apr 2012, 16:18
Yes, the neutral hauler bit will be removed in the new incarnation. It will be hard for KotMC to replace ship losses since, as before, I'm going to try to avoid taxing (and therefore providing for) members of the corp and letting everyone maintain their own assets and supplies, so completely disallowing members from firing back on blues is problematic.

The 0.0 rule, however, will remain the same. KotMC's ideology will basically treat 0.0 like hell, which makes neuts out there either lost souls or demons that want to rip your face off. Also, making this completely IC now seems much easier, thanks for mentioning EM's stuff.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 25 Apr 2012, 16:57
The rules don't look too complicated. Most of it is common sense once the neutral hauler thing gets out.
Also I think it can be easily put into an IC form with Ulphus's change in mind. :)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 25 Apr 2012, 18:01

I disagree with Lyn that it's too complicated. It mostly works.

If you say so.

I just remember the policies when I was in CVA that more or less was "ITS NOT RED YOU DONT SHOOT, UNLESS IT IS SHOOTING AT YOU". Even with that in mind, it was not always easy to make people understand how it worked. I also remember that all these rules you quoted above when in KotMC were mostly a mess for everyone and to my eyes, at least, added to the general confusion more than anything else. It was trying to please both sides (vigilantes and laid back pilots) by being very, very ambigous. It worked, somehow, when some people were like "You breached the ROEs !" "Not at all I happen to understand them differently !"
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ulphus on 25 Apr 2012, 19:28
Lyn,

I saw the fine-print in Aldrith's post as examples and guidelines, rather than exhaustive rules covering every situation.

I can understand that some people have a problem working with the sort of ambiguity that our RoE allows, (Neutral cynos are not shot at unless we catch them cynoing in red capitals, for instance), but those people tend not to stay with EM for very long.

For me, and the people who do tend to stay in EM, the RoE we use allows enough flexibility to deal with the situations our FCs find themselves in, while being obvious enough that most pilots don't need to think too hard most of the time.

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 25 Apr 2012, 19:36
What Ulphus said. If you are not smart enough to figure out the RoE, you are not smart enough to stay in the corp. My impatience now means higher standards for all members of KotMC.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 26 Apr 2012, 03:29
/me hugs Aldrith.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 26 Apr 2012, 05:08
Maybe its just the form of that guide which disturbs me. I think you could still need a tl;dr at the end.

And believe me, I am the first one to follow the rules at the letter. You could put 100.000 rules and bullet points that I wouldnt mind so much myself.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 26 Apr 2012, 05:50
I read the whole thing again and I think I know now what troubled me. The part that was bugging me is the part explaining what could allow people to shoot at neutrals (aiding the enemy or threatening actions). Not that it is bad, at the contrary I find it good, but reading this bit :

RoE:

You may not fire upon a neutral pilot unless provoked or ordered to do so by an approved Fleet Commander only. (List TBA) If the FC is a member of KotMC then the one giving the order is still subject to these rules, but those following his orders are not. Sufficient provocation includes clear evidence or high likelihood of aiding the enemy or pirates, or at least TWO examples of threatening behavior. Proper examples are listed below.


It seems to me that only an approved FC can order to shoot at a neutral. So, the logic here dictates that the following rules on "aiding the enemy" and "threatening actions" are also subject to that rule : only an approved FC can order to open fire. If I understand correctly, the average pilot can only fire back if under direct enemy aggression/fire (and even in that case it is always better to get the FC confirmation before doing so, from experience, unless your FC has a sudden brainfuck and is unable to follow anymore).

Maybe this is the bit that may need a little more clarification.

Also, this makes me wonder what is the correct course of action when a pilot fly in solo or in a group small enough not to have a clear FC ? Are they considered like "approved FCs" and so, able to aggro dubious neutrals "aiding the enemy" or "threatening them" ?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 26 Apr 2012, 06:09
I'd say: When there are not ( believable ) witnesses, as in a 1 on 1 situation, the benefit of the doubt should be given. Obviously an industrial wouldn't open fire, and the pve fit cloaky tengu would very likely not engage a proper pvp ship, let alone two or three of them.

If these questionable things tend to happen regularily to certain pilots... ;)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ava Starfire on 26 Apr 2012, 06:18
Pretty hard to convince someone that a retriever opened fire, yeah.

That being said, NBSI in nullsec only makes sense. Good ROE, and not very different from ours. Dont wanna get shot by me in nullsec? When I enter system, TELL ME THAT. It isnt that hard.

Of course, 99% of nullsec people just sit somewhere, cloaked and shaking quietly, when a neutral enters system. The remaining 1% are looking for fights.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 26 Apr 2012, 17:23
Hmmm, yes, I'm going to take a crack at rewriting it IC, using this as a base. Perhaps by allowing the RP to take over it will change accordingly and be more clear as a result.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lucius Vindictus on 27 Apr 2012, 06:43
Aldrith!  :D

Good to see you are coming back! The Amarrian RP corner needs some love! And what I've read here sounds great so far. Capsuleer vigilante Inquisitors who condemn captured crew? Awesome! That sounds like the corp that I've always wished there was, but never found in the game.

As you know I've always been 90% about aesthetics and 10% practicality, so I believe you should create a new corp name and ranking structure to reflect the new harsher direction of the knighthood. Keywords: inquisition, retribution, fire, skulls, blood for the blood god!  8)

You wouldn't have to look far for someone to do any graphics you would ever need!

You could even justify RP-ly that you were out of the game because you have been attending a conclave of inquisitors who were unhappy with the state of the crusade and recruited you to set things straight... or one of a thousand other cool story angles :)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 27 Apr 2012, 09:41
LUCIUSSS! How've you been, man?

I'm glad you like it! I knew you'd appreciate this sort of thing. The RP return story is going a bit more personal and character-driven, which will be revealed when it happens. The name will stay the same, but I'm going to write lots more background about the corp and what's happening so KotMC's apparent lack of mercy towards certain individuals will be explained. It still will be merciful, it will just be that technical kind of mercy where it kinda isn't. Things like "I shall give you a quick death; this is my mercy to you." Ect., ect. I think this will give the corp an interesting second layer, where it's not just one thing, but many. Conflicts with good and evil abound!

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 27 Apr 2012, 11:10
Well, thats kindof a Stannis Baratheon ruthless mercy for great justice.

(http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/29800000/Season-2-Character-Profile-Stannis-Baratheon-game-of-thrones-29896071-960-540.jpg)

"Oh yeah ? You no piwate ? Go tell that to my axe"
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 27 Apr 2012, 11:16
There might also be some Daenerys Targaryen style hissy-fits where everybody just dies because they weren't nice enough.

"Y u so mean? I SHALL WASH YOUR FAMILY OFF THIS EARTH IN A STORM OF FIRE AND BLOOD."
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: kalaratiri on 27 Apr 2012, 11:36
lol can't wait :)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ava Starfire on 28 Apr 2012, 16:21
Stop making us wait! The SUSPENSE!!!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 28 Apr 2012, 16:27
There might also be some Daenerys Targaryen style hissy-fits where everybody just dies because they weren't nice enough.

"Y u so mean? I SHALL WASH YOUR FAMILY OFF THIS EARTH IN A STORM OF FIRE AND BLOOD."

Will you also follow Stannis first dogma ?

"A good deed do not redeem a bad deed."
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 28 Apr 2012, 17:17
Stop making us wait! The SUSPENSE!!!

BLARALRLAL PERFECTION CANNOT BE RUSHED!

Will you also follow Stannis first dogma ?

"A good deed do not redeem a bad deed."

Yup! Only the pain of your crime visited upon you twice fold can redeem your crime.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 28 Apr 2012, 17:33
THANK.YOU.SO.MUCH.

I am so sick and damn tired of seeing god and every man get away with their atrocities because people tend to forget they did them, or they want redemption (and get's it in a second) and are swiftly elevated to forgivenvillain status. Happens to practically everyone who wants it. If it ever came to pass that people who do badthings(tm) as defined by the factions keeping tabs on this, are repeatedly reminded of and punished for their actions (or atl treated accordingly) then EVE might be a considerably more interesting game than it already is.

More realistic reactions for actions. Then all one needs is true EVE-characters instead of real-life-persona-expy syndrome. That's a topic for another day, though.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ava Starfire on 29 Apr 2012, 07:33
THANK.YOU.SO.MUCH.

I am so sick and damn tired of seeing god and every man get away with their atrocities because people tend to forget they did them, or they want redemption (and get's it in a second) and are swiftly elevated to forgivenvillain status. Happens to practically everyone who wants it. If it ever came to pass that people who do badthings(tm) as defined by the factions keeping tabs on this, are repeatedly reminded of and punished for their actions (or atl treated accordingly) then EVE might be a considerably more interesting game than it already is.

More realistic reactions for actions. Then all one needs is true EVE-characters instead of real-life-persona-expy syndrome. That's a topic for another day, though.

I am agreeing with Bloodbird... this must mean its good, or we have both gone insane.

I suspect some of both!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 29 Apr 2012, 08:27
This is not, in any way, to be taken as saying you're doing it wrong. However.

Prime fiction seems to support the notion that the Khanid crown, and the kingdom as a whole, have a fairly pragmatic view of moral questions. How does this fit with the rather righteous, no compromise with evil stance that you seem to be taking with the Knighthood?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 29 Apr 2012, 12:54
Simple: it's a matter of personality. Just because there's going to be an injection of Khanid practicality in certain areas doesn't mean it's going to completely take over. The Khanid aspects mix with Aldy's personal feelings and takes the form of a practical 'moral prioritization'. All the energy and malice usually used to persecute things like heresy, blasphemy and to push slavery on people will be shifted into more serious matters, such as punishing murder, piracy and extreme heresy, such as Sani Sabik and EoM. The principle here is that you can swing your hammer twice as hard if you're not using it to crush ants. Nitpicking only wears you out and makes you unable to stand up for the important principles.

Bottom line: KotMC will not exist to change your mind on matters; it will exist to put a laser bolt through your head when you fuck up because of your incorrect opinions.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mathra Hiede on 29 Apr 2012, 18:17
Simple: it's a matter of personality. Just because there's going to be an injection of Khanid practicality in certain areas doesn't mean it's going to completely take over. The Khanid aspects mix with Aldy's personal feelings and takes the form of a practical 'moral prioritization'. All the energy and malice usually used to persecute things like heresy, blasphemy and to push slavery on people will be shifted into more serious matters, such as punishing murder, piracy and extreme heresy, such as Sani Sabik and EoM. The principle here is that you can swing your hammer twice as hard if you're not using it to crush ants. Nitpicking only wears you out and makes you unable to stand up for the important principles.

Bottom line: KotMC will not exist to change your mind on matters; it will exist to put a laser bolt through your head when you fuck up because of your incorrect opinions.

*pokes Aldi* Ohai you :D
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 29 Apr 2012, 19:34
*pokes Aldi* Ohai you :D

zomg.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mathra Hiede on 29 Apr 2012, 19:38
*pokes Aldi* Ohai you :D

zomg.

:D Sup Aldi? Thinking of kickstarting the Knights again I see?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 29 Apr 2012, 19:42
Why yes I am, my good sir! How have you been? And do you like chopping people into bits for their heinous sins?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mathra Hiede on 29 Apr 2012, 19:43
Why yes I am, my good sir! How have you been? And do you like chopping people into bits for their heinous sins?

Hah, possibly - but currently unsubbed due to distinct lack of RL funds, but trying desperately to save some money for stuff like EVE.

Iz good however though, sorry for the minor de-rail but couldn't resist ;)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Karmilla Strife on 30 Apr 2012, 11:09
Aldy, there seems to be a lot of excitement about this. Is there any chance of you kicking things off before the next exspansion? 
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 30 Apr 2012, 11:21
Yes, that's the plan, 1-2 weeks before Inferno proper. I just made some new forums and I'll have to make them all pretty before I do much else. Then when that's all done I'll start filling it with the proper rules and background and such and such and then I can jump into the game. If I start playing before all of this gets done I'll just get lazy and spend all of my time playing instead!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Karmilla Strife on 30 Apr 2012, 22:54
cool, maybe I'll catch you before my sub runs out.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 01 May 2012, 08:02
Quote time!
Quote from: Pratchett
Only crimes take place in darkness. Punishment has to be done in the light.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Matthieu Kovalenko on 01 May 2012, 08:55
Yay, quotes!

Quote from: The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
History is made at night. Character is what you are in the dark.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Graelyn on 01 May 2012, 09:19
Aldy:

(http://www.eve-wiki.net/images/2/2d/Aegispublic5.jpg)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 01 May 2012, 11:36
That, Cardinal Graelyn, will have to be worked out IC.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Desiderya on 06 May 2012, 15:47
I am missing my KOTMC fix this weekend. :s
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 06 May 2012, 18:36
Currently gutting the old forums and preparing them for re-use. Give it a visit!

http://www.kotmc.com/forums (http://www.kotmc.com/forums)

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Lyn Farel on 07 May 2012, 04:46
The... the old forums !  :eek:
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 07 May 2012, 13:50
Ya, I got Shalee to transfer ownership over to me, so this will save me a lot of work. Just lots of purging of the old must be done, and then re-filling with new stuff. Some things, like guides and some of the better social threads will remain, but apart from that, it all burns.

Also, a point of interest: The Noble's Library (KotMC's corp-only IC self-description section) now has 4 sub forums: Charter, Ethos, Lore, and Oaths. Will likely be growing to accomodate more weighty Amarrian holy-talk.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 10 May 2012, 18:34
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107590&find=unread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107590&find=unread)

It begins.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Silas Vitalia on 10 May 2012, 21:55
Aldrith your new character portraits in-game look quite good, nice job with the lighting.

I'm sure I'll be seeing (shooting) at you guys before too long, welcome back ;)

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 10 May 2012, 23:36
Thanks Silas! :D

Btw, for those of you who haven't met Otheiran before (I like to call him Ger-Bear) he's based on this character, mixed with a western knight with the mouth of a sailor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBph_ibTVgQ&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLwQfThsFYeaxGW9YNtfI3Hw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBph_ibTVgQ&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLwQfThsFYeaxGW9YNtfI3Hw)

I've also been thinking of making him slightly senile since he's 95 and doesn't believe in mental implants, so the dialogue might even be similar!

*Ger'Ante Otheiran punches a hole through the block of wood.

"Did you see that wood gnome? I think I got it."

*The new recruit blinks.

"I don't see any wood gn-"

"ARE YOU SAYING I'M CRAZY?! Now help me get the rest!"

Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Mathra Hiede on 11 May 2012, 03:33
Thanks Silas! :D

Btw, for those of you who haven't met Otheiran before (I like to call him Ger-Bear) he's based on this character, mixed with a western knight with the mouth of a sailor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBph_ibTVgQ&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLwQfThsFYeaxGW9YNtfI3Hw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBph_ibTVgQ&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLwQfThsFYeaxGW9YNtfI3Hw)

I've also been thinking of making him slightly senile since he's 95 and doesn't believe in mental implants, so the dialogue might even be similar!

*Ger'Ante Otheiran punches a hole through the block of wood.

"Did you see that wood gnome? I think I got it."

*The new recruit blinks.

"I don't see any wood gn-"

"ARE YOU SAYING I'M CRAZY?! Now help me get the rest!"

I have absolutely no idea what that was about :P but if you Ger-Bear is anything like that guy he is a complete nutcase.

...and you may have ruined the Cyberknights for all time.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Vieve on 11 May 2012, 07:09
Thanks Silas! :D

Btw, for those of you who haven't met Otheiran before (I like to call him Ger-Bear) he's based on this character, mixed with a western knight with the mouth of a sailor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBph_ibTVgQ&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLwQfThsFYeaxGW9YNtfI3Hw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBph_ibTVgQ&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLwQfThsFYeaxGW9YNtfI3Hw)

I've also been thinking of making him slightly senile since he's 95 and doesn't believe in mental implants, so the dialogue might even be similar!

*Ger'Ante Otheiran punches a hole through the block of wood.

"Did you see that wood gnome? I think I got it."

*The new recruit blinks.

"I don't see any wood gn-"

"ARE YOU SAYING I'M CRAZY?! Now help me get the rest!"


I hope Celeste never ever ever ever with an extra 'ever' meets this guy.  She'll think he's adorable (and his views on capsuleers nicely line up with those held by her former Amarr business partner, whom she misses a great deal).



Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Ava Starfire on 11 May 2012, 19:47
I can truly say, Aldrith brings a good fight.

Till we meet again.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 11 May 2012, 20:15
I have absolutely no idea what that was about :P but if you Ger-Bear is anything like that guy he is a complete nutcase.

...and you may have ruined the Cyberknights for all time.

Haha, to be fair, the subtitles in that clip weren't the ones used in the actual film. Those are much more serious, and you'd have to hunt down the proper clips yourself since they don't seem to be readily available on YouTube.

The character of Otheiran himself has reasons why he is rude, insulting and curses, as few of them being he is a bitter old man who feels he can say whatever the hell he wants because 1.) he's old enough 2.) he's strong enough and 3.) just doesn't really give a damn about the politeness bit of knighthood any longer. It goes a lot deeper than that as well, but you should RP with him to figure it out.

I hope Celeste never ever ever ever with an extra 'ever' meets this guy.  She'll think he's adorable (and his views on capsuleers nicely line up with those held by her former Amarr business partner, whom she misses a great deal).

Why is this a bad thing?! I demand you meet him for saying that. You just try to call him 'cute' and see what happens.

I can truly say, Aldrith brings a good fight.

Till we meet again.

/me bows regally.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Vieve on 11 May 2012, 20:56

I hope Celeste never ever ever ever with an extra 'ever' meets this guy.  She'll think he's adorable (and his views on capsuleers nicely line up with those held by her former Amarr business partner, whom she misses a great deal).

Why is this a bad thing?!

I'm not saying it's a bad thing outright.

Just that people who she thinks are adorable have a tendency to disappear quietly under mysterious circumstances (stupid stupid family curses)1.

1Yes, really.  And also we're talking PCs played by other people here, just not figments of my demented imagination. :P
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 11 May 2012, 21:00
Just that people who she thinks are adorable have a tendency to disappear quietly under mysterious circumstances (stupid stupid family curses).

... So what you're saying is that Celeste is a serial cuddler who has a secret cuddle dungeon where she keeps all of her abducted cute things and ruthlessly snuggles with them until they die of natural causes.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-21_jyYvyZxo/T16-fJ9X6oI/AAAAAAAADqI/HaJaKxYuxfg/s1600/themoreyouknow.jpg)
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Saikoyu on 14 May 2012, 09:48
And knowing is half the battle.

Celeste's secret snuggle place.  Has a nice ring to it. 
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 16 May 2012, 13:25
I was poking through some old emails and came across some film related faux religious stuff that made me think of the Knighthood as it has been described here.

Quote
The Family Prayer
"And Shepherds we shall be
For thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand
Our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
And teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Et Spiritus Sancti."

Quote
Il Duce's Prayers
"And when I vest my flashing sword and my hand takes hold in judgement I will take vengeance upon mine enemies. And I will repay those who hate me O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand And count me among Thy saints."

"Whosoever shed last blood. By man shall his blood be shed. For immunity of god make he the man. Destroy all that which is evil. So that which is good may flourish. And I shall count thee among my favoured sheep. And you shall have the protection of all the angels in heaven."

"Never shall innocent blood be shed. Yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful, striking hammer of god. "

What do you think, does this work for you?
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 16 May 2012, 14:47
They do indeed, thank you kind sir! I myself have been looking to change some Catholic exorcisim prayers to apply to capsuleers XD.

Quote
P: God, by your name save me,
and by your might defend my cause.
 All: God, hear my prayer;
hearken to the words of my mouth.

P: For haughty men have risen up against me,
and fierce men seek my life;
they set not God before their eyes.
 All: See, God is my helper;
 the Lord sustains my life.

P: Turn back the evil upon my foes;
 in your faithfulness destroy them.
All: Freely will I offer you sacrifice;
 I will praise your name, Lord, for its goodness,

P: Because from all distress you have rescued me,
 and my eyes look down upon my enemies.
 All: Glory be to the Father.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Gottii on 16 May 2012, 15:43
Is there a prayer to guide foppish, long haired poets out of the closet and into the light?

Just, asking...might be relevant...
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 17 May 2012, 13:08
In case you where wondering.

Those "prayers" are from The Boondock Saints (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144117/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144117/)).
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: BloodBird on 20 May 2012, 21:13
In case you where wondering.

Those "prayers" are from The Boondock Saints (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144117/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144117/)).

They are. The movie is pretty damn good. All of EVE over-using and over-quoting this is not. This and the Pulp Fiction quote. (You know what I'm talking about)

Using these in some form would be entirely badass and fitting to your corp... if not for the idiotically large group of players who use them, bordering on meme-dom. I'd advice you to make severe and dedicated alterations/modification to these to fit with KOTMC and get them as far from the originals as possible, if you use them at all.
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Aldrith Shutaq on 20 May 2012, 22:33
But of course.

Creative side of KotMC is on hold for now, been spending all my time fighting for Kourm. Single-handedly have put KotMC back on the top of the KB's for the past week. :3
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Valadeus on 21 May 2012, 06:45
But of course.

Creative side of KotMC is on hold for now, been spending all my time fighting for Kourm. Single-handedly have put KotMC back on the top of the KB's for the past week. :3

Congratulations, Aldy!
Title: Re: Knighthood of the Merciful Crown - WiP Brainstorm Thread
Post by: Safai on 02 Jun 2012, 19:14
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EqD_yWiiS5U/RuV1YOqr95I/AAAAAAAAAiM/v3nN6wa7vxU/s400/Hopkins+low+angle.jpg)

Let's see plenty of this guy now, ya hear? ;)

(Witchfinder General, for anyone unfamiliar)