Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Guides, Mechanics & Gameplay => Topic started by: Sakura Imoru on 25 Nov 2011, 02:59
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http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice
The player owned customs office is manufactured in two steps. First, the Customs Office Gantry must be manufactured from the Customs Office Gantry Blueprint Copy. The second step is anchoring and upgrading the Gantry in orbit around a planet. The upgrade consumes additional materials.
Blueprint distribution
The Customs Office Gantry (COG) blueprint copy is distributed via following LP stores
The 24th Imperial Crusade (Amarr)
The State Protectorate (Caldari)
The Federal Defense Union (Gallente)
The Tribal Liberation Force (Minmatar)
CONCORD
The blueprint is not available as an Original
Blueprint Cost
CONCORD LP STORE
20,000,000.00 ISK
6000 CONCORD LP
FW corporations LP STORE
10,000,000.00 ISK
3000 LP
So, only via CONCORD- or FW-LP-stores, the former twice as expensive, huh?
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I just want to strangle CCP. I spent many months to skill PI on my 3 chars, and now it has suddenly become useless for me. Very poor game design implementation.
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Will there still be NPC CO's? Because if not, I'll add myself to the list of folks annoyed that all my PI skills on 3 toons were a total waste of my time.
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Will there still be NPC CO's?
High-sec remains unchanged except that taxes get doubled from the current situation.
Low-sec will have Interbus customs offices initially, but those can be shot down and won't be replaced by NPCs.
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I think I made my stance clear here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363673#post363673) and here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=378584#post378584). It is not because I do a lot of PI (only for POS fuel when the POS is up and a bit of high sec PI to get Construction Blocks for my tech 2 production), but if CCP Greyscales "lessons learned" are anything to go by Player Owned Custom Offices in low sec is going to flop.
I mean, it is not because I cannot afford a POCO, but I doubt it will turn a profit and it is certainly NOT the enjoyment of the actual PI game play that keeps me interested in EVE. It is far too simplistic for that so I am not willing to give up my nomadic lifestyle just to protect a POCO in low sec. Truthfully, I think firing off the Command Center rocket will be more fun than running a POCO with that cute little countdown.
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The other obvious issue is, anyone in low-sec ca nnow turning destroying any Player-owned or interbuss CO into another sport, piracy will get a new favorite pas-time, beyond poping any weakly-defended pos they want.
Player's blowing shit up for kicks will ensure that the only ones with PI stuff in low-sec are now pirates, ransom 0.0 blobbers with to much time ot burn and/or anyone who can actually defend them AND care to erect them in the first palce - ergo only the ones with low-sec poses adn the desire to fuel them locally.
Yes, this will absolutely flop, badly. I can however live with higher taxes in high-sec CO's though.
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Player's blowing shit up for kicks will ensure that the only ones with PI stuff in low-sec are now
... those who actually fight for them and have a low-sec presence. As in, it gives an incentive to live in and fight for low-sec. Which is good.
My biggest issue right now is that the tax payout compared to CO cost is ridiculous for P1/P2, pretty bad for P3, and for P4 where tax would actually be sensible, low-sec offers no advantages over high-sec, so you need to "attract" people by <10% tax rates.
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True, Arkady, some current low sec dwellers might benefit from the POCO, but I seriously doubt they will attract more people than they expel from low sec. (Which put us into the whole "how to populate low/zero sec " debate).
But, meh, CCP will claim success no matter what. I will have my high sec Construction Blocks and harvest my low sec gas. At least that I can do solo.
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I like it anyway :cube:
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Player's blowing shit up for kicks will ensure that the only ones with PI stuff in low-sec are now
... those who actually fight for them and have a low-sec presence. As in, it gives an incentive to live in and fight for low-sec. Which is good.
My biggest issue right now is that the tax payout compared to CO cost is ridiculous for P1/P2, pretty bad for P3, and for P4 where tax would actually be sensible, low-sec offers no advantages over high-sec, so you need to "attract" people by <10% tax rates.
As I have always said, good or bad, they consciously choosed to switch the current target base to a totally different one. And this is the problem. This is exactly like if they suddenly said that all standard missions in high sec would now not be under the protection of CONCORD anymore. They implement something for a specific kind of players, let them skill their toons and play with the toys for a year, then they suddenly tell them that actually it will be aimed to another kind of players. This is a total nonsense.
And now people like me are like "Wtf ? And if I want to do PI ? I have to run it in high sec and lose my time where it is worthless ? And if I do not want to be part of any blob/big alliance to be able to continue that in low sec ?". Basically, it means that what they do is adding incentives for big groups to have something more to do in low sec (though I am not even sure that I really think what I am saying here, PI in low sec ? A big incentive for groups to get involved seriously ?...), and incentives for all the players currently involved in low sec PI to gtfo.
Besides that, yes, it is a good idea. A good idea only though, because i am pretty convinced it the result will be very mitigated for all the cons that have been pointed out.
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Ya, I am not sure exactly what we, LDIS, are going to do. Operating a POCO for our own use is unlikely to bring in much additional revenue.
There are a lot of choices for those operating the POCO, but it has the potential to drive the cost of POS fuels and various commodities through the roof and that will impact moon material cost, T2 components, and T2 ships and modules.
It may end up killing my chosen play-style.
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I am highly sceptical that there's much profit in non P3/P4 export taxes, even with high rates.
Well, the concept works for Nullsec, I guess, but I seriously doubt that lowsec will benefit from it.
There are too few possibilities ( and necessities ) to play out that 'landlord' idea of theirs.
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Ya, I am not sure exactly what we, LDIS, are going to do. Operating a POCO for our own use is unlikely to bring in much additional revenue.
There are a lot of choices for those operating the POCO, but it has the potential to drive the cost of POS fuels and various commodities through the roof and that will impact moon material cost, T2 components, and T2 ships and modules.
It may end up killing my chosen play-style.
You could always team up with I-RED! We're working out how we are going to hold control of some Intaki offices.
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Let me give an example how CCP could "coat" one game mechanic with a totally different one which I would find equally wrong as the POCOs: experience for ship crews gained through long grind of NPC rats. Having the experience level of your ships crew provide a substantial edge in PvP against other players would force* players, that were actually most interested in the game involving shooting at other players, into long tedious grinds against stupid NPCs.
I promise if that suggestion ever pops up I will be on the barricades just as I am now.
*: Just like PI producers can go to high sec or use the Control Center rocket, so could you fight against other players with an inexperienced crew. You would properly just lose all the time...
But, in someway I am actually glad CCP introduced POCOs before adding engaging game play to PI itself. I would have hated to have invested more in the feature before they pulled the carpet away.
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I am highly sceptical that there's much profit in non P3/P4 export taxes, even with high rates.
Well, the concept works for Nullsec, I guess, but I seriously doubt that lowsec will benefit from it.
There are too few possibilities ( and necessities ) to play out that 'landlord' idea of theirs.
You essentially have to have an alliance of some kind (informal). A combat-focused corporation could set them up, defend them, and draw taxes if they had friends wanting to use the planets.
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Should be interesting to see the dynamic this generates between low-sec denzins and people wanting to operate PI at a profitable level without hitting nullsec. Assuming 'lol killmails' doesn't dominate, anyway.
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You essentially have to have an alliance of some kind (informal). A combat-focused corporation could set them up, defend them, and draw taxes if they had friends wanting to use the planets.
The question is: Is it worth it. The only things generating real taxes are P3 and P4 commodities, with P3 probably being rarely im/exported, Robotics aside. And not everyone does P4, so I guess the lion's share of PI activity is fuel production - and even with P4 included, there's a lot of P1/P2 to be done for one P4 planet.
Even with 10% taxes (Highsec niveau) it will very likely take a huge amount of time to get the investment from the POCO on non P4's back. And once the taxes raise beyond the 10% mark highsec gets a lot more attractive, at least for finishing P4 goods. Just wait until you have your 350k m³ and hire Black Frog or someone else with a JF for roughly 50m. Even logistics sorted out. :p
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Even with 10% taxes (Highsec niveau) it will very likely take a huge amount of time to get the investment from the POCO on non P4's back. And once the taxes raise beyond the 10% mark highsec gets a lot more attractive, at least for finishing P4 goods.
This is the main problem. With current P4 taxes, it actually doesn't take THAT long to make back a single POCO (full P4 production of one pilot about 6 days I think, but few people do full P4 production in low-sec, and usually you can get more than one pilot; so make it a month maybe, that's quite a good RoI). Making back the money for multiple POCOs takes proportionally longer.
CCP needs to fix P1/P2 values for the taxes. They most likely will. The problem here is to make it attractive enough to get some groups to live in low-sec, but not attractive enough to make 0.0 alliances feel interested.
POCOs are roughly on the level of small towers to take down, by the way. And small tower defenses aren't really worth mentioning, either. I suspect there will be a big wave of POCO attacks initially because they're new, but it will quiet down quite a bit later on, with POCOs in backwater low-sec systems pretty safe and POCOs in pirate home systems regularly taken down.
With some luck, CCP's hope will happen that those pirates actually set up POCOs with sensible tax rates. But who knows. :-)
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With some luck, CCP's hope will happen that those pirates actually set up POCOs with sensible tax rates. But who knows. :-)
Passive income from people avoiding their gate camps is not allowed!
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Class one wormholes. Safer and more profitable than lowsec PI.
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Class one wormholes. Safer and more profitable than lowsec PI.
Great if your sole goal is profit. What to do with that profit is another question.
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Class one wormholes. Safer and more profitable than lowsec PI.
Great if your sole goal is profit. What to do with that profit is another question.
Buy the fuel from the guy in the c1.