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EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Character Development => Topic started by: Kiki Truzhari on 21 Oct 2011, 15:21
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To go along with the topic of what the alignment of the factions are, I thought I'd do something more fun and discuss what the DnD alignments of our characters are! So what do you think your characters alignment is? Do others agree or disagree?
For me, Kiki definitely comes off as Chaotic Good, shading into neutral good on some occasions. She definitely puts her friends and family before The Law, or Justice, but that doesn't mean she doesn't believe in right or wrong, and she holds her loved ones to that, but she's willing to completely put the law, or even right and wrong, aside for their sake if the need arises.
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Strongly Chaotic Neutral. People will probably strongly agree.
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I have always wondered where people would place their characters in a D&D setting of alignments. For John I would put him as Lawful Neutral, though I am sure some people would insist he is Lawful Evil in some aspects.
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though I am sure some people would insist he is Lawful Evil in some aspects.
I don't see it. If anything, John strikes me as Neutral Good. He's willing to do whatever it takes to see that piracy is stopped and the good of Ishukone is served. Even if it means breaking a few laws.
Katrina is definitely Neutral Good though. She follows certain laws and customs, but completely ignores others. Either way, she wants the best for the world and herself, and does her best to bring some good to whoever she meets.
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Hmmmm. Vince has changed a lot over the course of years.
He's teetered from True Neutral to Chaotic Evil, but has long since drifted away from Chaotic Evil, and as he is now I don't think Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil describe him either.
So, I wasn't sure what he was at this point and time and after some pondering I decided to do the official WotC test from his perspective to see where he stands to day as a persona outside the setting or organization today.
According to the WotC own alignment test Vince stands currently as Neutral Good. Make of it what you will. I was somewhat amused and surprised to see that one pop up.
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An important thing to keep in mind is that the DnD alignment system is based on our outside perspective looking in. In morally ambiguous settings, it gets turned to swiss cheese.
Traditional alignment:
Ghost Hunter - Lawful Evil
Integrator Yeliana - Neutral Evil.
[spoiler]Actual alignment:
Ghost Hunter - Lawful Good
Integrator Yeliana - Lawful Neutral[/spoiler]
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This is a little difficult. Not only trying to avoid being self-indulgent but also over the years Seriphyn has become infinitely less two-dimensional than generic loyalist A.
As a father/friend/lover, when the "greater politics" of the world and all the shades of grey are taken away, probably just neutral good. But as someone with a military sense of moral conviction, this sometimes veers on lawful neutral or even lawful good. He is never chaotic.
I'd echo what others have said in terms of looking at characters as the only protagonist in the EVE universe (relative) instead of placing them in the entire setting which would be absolute, and thus shades of grey etc. etc. I think it more boils down to whether the intentions are sincere and whether one has principles or not....perhaps even...
Selfless/neutral/selfish
Principled/neutral/unscrupulous
Maybe even sincere/neutral/ulterior but that might fit in with the selflessness scale v0v
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Shae is tricky to classify with the standard DnD alignment system, but as everyone else has said, it all depends on the character's point of view and everyone else's point of view, and Eve being very much painted in shades of grey makes things blurry.
As a pirate and outlaw, many people seem to see Shae as "Evil", in the classical sense. Given her general outlook on authority, she'd probably be seen as Neutral- or Chaotic Evil, depending on how extreme someone feels her actions are.
On the personal side, however, Shae's fallen to a life of piracy through a combination of unabashed pragmatism and distrust for the standing legal systems of New Eden. She has firm, personal definitions regarding innocence ("You signed on to a vessel going into hazardous territory or intending to engage other vessels; you knew the risks") and culpability ("As the captain of your ship, it is your responsibility to preserve the lives of your crew; if you'd rather not pay a reasonable ransom, their blood is on your hands, not mine"). By that definition, she could be seen as Chaotic Neutral or even Chaotic Good.
Scary :eek:
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I think Tib is Neutral Good or Lawful Good pretty much any way you shake the stick.
It amuses me to RP a good guy in Grimdark Grimdark: Grimdark in Spaaaace
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Lyn is a little hard to describe in that system :
In terms of political alignement, she is neutral (more or less), but she still fights usual "piracy" and strongly supports concord. I would say in that case that she is mostly lawful good.
In social terms, she is neutral good.
In terms of everything else, she is pure neutral.
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Took the same test as Vince, ended up with Neutral. It really depends on who's viewpoint though, and who Myrhial interacts with. She'd go to great lengths for the Cartel and for the corp / alliance, where she's probably Lawful Good by their rules. Others however, she's be Neutral Evil. Sneaky, rather than overt. Except for sworn enemies like the Sansha. She'd still use covert techniques, but she also will very happily just blow them out of the sky without the slightest bit of remorse and in fact being quite happy about it.
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Someone called me lawful evil recently. As for my character(s), I couldn't really say, but the WotC test gave me Neutral (True Neutral).
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Morwen is apparently Neutral Good. Not too surprised, tbh.
I don't RP with Naoko enough to really do hers. :X
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where is this WotC test? Not that we really need it, people who know stecker will probably peg her as...
Choatic What-the-fuck.
her habit of doing randomly cruel things contrasted with her willingness to take bullets for her friends makes the good/evil thing hard to figure. Downside of being psychotic I suppose.
Edit: Due to the nature of the questions, the test in question says (unsurprisingly) Chaotic Evil. Rawr.
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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20001222b (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20001222b)
Lawful Good here. Which in Eve is the same thing as walking around with a "Please Kick Me" sign taped to your back. :)
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Ahhh, did that one. Typical. Lawful good. Easier to apply without the metaknowledge of the wider universe, I suppose.
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Heh, Chaotic Neutral on the test. :D
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Deadie got an unsurprising Chaotic Evil in the WotC test. Pretty much how I see her.
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Gottii got "neutral good". I prefer "barely good".
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Neutral Evil. Not really opposed to laws and ordered society, but will only follow the rules when it suits her. She also believes she holds herself to a code of conduct (though it often comes across as hypocritical and probably is) and is rather honest in her dealings about being evil (or outwardly "good", as Ghost mentioned above).
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The WoTC alignment test was amusing.
Celeste - Lawful Neutral.
Vieve - Lawful Good.
Sabi - Lawful Good.
Maris - Chaotic Good.
I was surprised Celeste came out as 'Neutral' instead of 'Evil', but considering she does evil things for what she believes are noble reasons, I guess it balances out, or something. The others don't surprise me a bit -- though I'm reasonably certain neither Vieve nor Sabi would (or should) be viewed as universally good.
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Shae is tricky to classify with the standard DnD alignment system, but as everyone else has said, it all depends on the character's point of view and everyone else's point of view, and Eve being very much painted in shades of grey makes things blurry.
This. In reality, Bacch is probably Neutral Evil. From a random site with a fairly in-depth description of the various alignments, some of the things that match with Bacch very well despite what he may think of himself:
Natural forces which are meant to cull out the weak and stupid are artificially suppressed by so-called good, and the fittest are wrongfully held back, so whatever means are expedient can be used by the powerful to gain and maintain their dominance, without concern for anything.
This fits with his philosophies on capsuleers vs non-capsuleers. To Bacch non-capsuleers are an inferior race, much as Homo Erectus are to humans in modern evolutionary terms. Those capsuleers that do not acknowledge their own innate abilities and superiority are fools that need liberating, and the only effective way of liberating them is to ruthlessly demonstrate to them the power of those who embrace their full potentials and rise above the petty squabbles of nations that are merely tribes of non-podder refuse.
Their only interest is in getting ahead. If there is a quick and easy way to gain a profit, whether it be legal, questionable, or obviously illegal, they take advantage of it. Although neutral evil characters do not have the every-man-for-himself attitude of chaotic characters, they have no qualms about betraying their friends and companions for personal gain. They typically base their allegiance on power and money, which makes them quite receptive to bribes.
This bit is not entirely true. While Bacch has absolutely no qualms stealing, spying, scamming, or otherwise betraying people's trust, he is also fiercely loyal to his corporation and would not do anything that might damage Stimulus' mission and message of freedom. That said, his reputation is such that over time he has been marginalized somewhat in the leadership of the organization insofar as its role inside the alliance is concerned, and while this has not bothered him, it has solidified his feelings that the other organizations flying with Stimulus are akin to mercenaries--they are pilots that may or may not embrace the Stimulus philosophy, but they are effective pilots that serve to deliver the message in a cluster where it becomes harder and harder for smaller groups to make an impact.
So in a sense, if you take that paragraph and change the "I" to "Stimulus," it works. That said, there are some friends he would not betray (Veto, Eternal Rapture when it still existed, for instance, a very small group of individuals here and there) under any circumstances. And others he would have no problem betraying for the right price (Viper Shizzle, for instance).
...natural and man-made forces, if allowed to take their course, weed out the weak and useless in society. The deserving should take advantage of this condition to further their own goals by any means possible, especially to destroy weaklings who put forward "good" actions to promote the well being of all, which is just an excuse used to deny the deserving their due. To the neutral evil being, life is of no value, for those who cannot take advantage of their superiority don't deserve it, and they'll only interfere with the rightful pursuits of those who do.
This sums it up almost perfectly, actually.
I should point out that Bacch does not see himself as evil or a villain, but simply as driven and ruthless in his methodology. In fact in general I think that the notion that any persona sees themselves as evil for the sake of evil is absolutely silly. Those that are evil are generally simply out for themselves with little or no concern for any other, or are so ruthless in pursuing their goals that there is room for no concern for the repercussions of pursuing them.
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Deadie got an unsurprising Chaotic Evil in the WotC test. Pretty much how I see her.
Hikari is the evil twin! :o :cube:
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Kiruss came out Neutral Good.
Which is what I was guessing.
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I did the test, John came out as Lawful Good even with breaking some rules :lol:
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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20001222b (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20001222b)
Got this
Neutral Good
A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them. The common phrase for neutral good is "true good." Neutral good is the best alignment you can be because it means doing what is good without bias toward or against order.
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Did the test as well, according to it Sak is Chaotic Neutral.
Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom both from society’s restrictions and from a do-gooder’s zeal.
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Carmilla comes out as Chaotic Evil..... which I'm not that surprised tbh though Chaotic Good is better on a resume.
Personally I think she's more Chaotic Good :twisted:
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Simca got Neutral Good which isn't a surprise. Though in some ways I would say she will be leaning to lawful or chaotic depending on the circumstances, but I'm happy with it.
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Mitty is Lawful Good!
\o/
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The strange thing is, going strictly by that test, many Amarrians would be Lawful Good. Even my own Amarrian character, that I would have pegged as Lawful Neutral at best, seems to be a Lawful Good character according to the test. I think it says a lot about my own perspective that this was quite a shocking revelation to me. It does make sense looking at it from a different point of view.
Thank you for linking this test! I actually learned something about myself. This is a very, very good thing. :D
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I'm not very fond of the D&D alignment system, or that test, even within the confines thereof. To work at all, it should minimally be sliding scales rather than simple categorization, but given that there's game rules that explicitly rely on those categories to function, oh well.
If you put a gun to my head, I'd say Ze'ev is probably neutral or neutral good. While he's philosophically in explicit favor of the rule of the law qua the law, he's proven perfectly willing to break it when it benefits him, not just with the illegal boosters but bribery, false identities, and fraudulent business transactions. And while he commits a fair bit of time and money to altruistic causes, it's not clear to me that he has sufficient commitment to them in and of themselves to qualify as "D&D Good." He's never really sacrificed for them, he just throws money (acquired through business transactions that ultimately, inevitably feed into the cycle of capsuleer violence) at them.
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Does it seem odd to anyone else to use a system formulated for a medieval fantasy setting, for a grimdark futuristic where the questions are barely applicable?
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Does it seem odd to anyone else to use a system formulated for a medieval fantasy setting, for a grimdark futuristic where the questions are barely applicable?
Not really, no. ¬¬
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Does it seem odd to anyone else to use a system formulated for a medieval fantasy setting, for a grimdark futuristic where the questions are barely applicable?
I've used a hammer to drive screws before. I see no problem with this.
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Does it seem odd to anyone else to use a system formulated for a medieval fantasy setting, for a grimdark futuristic where the questions are barely applicable?
I've used a hammer to drive screws before. I see no problem with this.
... actually, yeah, that's a pretty good analogy for this.
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Interesting to note that those with matching alignments appear more pre-disposed to get along with each other in-character, regardless of factional alignments
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Some of the stuff is hard to answer accurately given context (especially the ruler related questions) at least in Misan's case. Ended up getting Neutral Evil, though if I had to pick one on my own it would probably be Chaotic Neutral instead.
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Ryven prior to his suddenly gaining a conscience: Chaotic Evil. He would piss in cereal and feed it to orphans just because it was tuesday.
Now, neutral good. He serves Amarr, but for spiritual reasons. His attachment to laws and governance are predicated on a need to serve something higher, this being the god of the Amarr, and via that, the empire. His goal is to good, and if the empire stopped being his preferred way, he would leave it.
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Some of the stuff is hard to answer accurately given context (especially the ruler related questions) at least in Misan's case. Ended up getting Neutral Evil, though if I had to pick one on my own it would probably be Chaotic Neutral instead.
I had to make analogies to answer some of the questions. For the Ruler ones, I usually shoved in "CEO" or "FC". People in either of those positions might have to make other analogies - alliance executors, or actual more literal "rulers" like Roden, Shakor, Heth, Jamyl, etc.
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As I suspected Bataav came out as Neutral Good, but I could see him drfiting to True Neutral quite easily.
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Some of the stuff is hard to answer accurately given context (especially the ruler related questions) at least in Misan's case. Ended up getting Neutral Evil, though if I had to pick one on my own it would probably be Chaotic Neutral instead.
Next to impossible. Some of them are so irrelevant to Bacch that I just kinda closed my eyes and clicked.
EDIT: FWIW, it said CE, but I don't think that's an accurate reflection.
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Mammal got Lawful Good:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article2.asp?x=dnd/dx20001222x
I saw him more as Neutral Good in my head.
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Jalenar came out as Neutral. A little suprised. I figured there'd be a 'good' in there somewhere. Oh well.
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Well.. Lord Crow:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Khorothis#p/u/0/zZL7ncwS4Gg
L-N
Considering it is actions that are judged it seems fair for the time being.
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In fact in general I think that the notion that any persona sees themselves as evil for the sake of evil is absolutely silly. Those that are evil are generally simply out for themselves with little or no concern for any other, or are so ruthless in pursuing their goals that there is room for no concern for the repercussions of pursuing them.
I agree with this, I took the test everyone else took and received Neutral Good. That's not even close to what I would view Logan as, and not how he views himself.
Difficult to quantify though as anarchists aren't really covered that well in the DnD system as anything other than "chaotic."
Having said that Logan has bonded with most of Stimulus and considers them more of a family than the one that was taken from him, and is loyal to that family to the nth degree, the only detractor being he, and his adopted extended family, are all mass murderers, terrorists, extortionists (hi Bacch) etc.
For that reason I would place Logan under the Neutral Evil alignment with neutral good tendencies for those people he respects/cares for.
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A productive response might be to question the morality of new Eden compared to a medieval fantasy realm, and recreate the questions in a way that's applicable to capsule pilots. Furthermore, could you devise a separate morality system for each culture, as they have their own value system?
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The questions could also be reviewed to match all the 4 factions. Then you would get instead Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Amarr/Minmatar/Gallente/Caldari :p
And then all the other factions start to complain. :lol:
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The D&D alignment system is overly simplistic, but I've always looked at the Law/Chaos and Good/Evil "axes" as being Collectivist/Individualist and Empathy/Apathy spectrums.
It is perfectly reasonable for an Amarr slaver and Minmatar freedom fighter to both be lawful good.
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Every faction has every alignment, tbh.
Don't even need to elaborate, it's pretty simple to think around.
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Lawful Good, just as I thought.
The questions and the options were well put, for they were easy to modify to the worldview of the character.
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Neutral good, which I suppose is fair enough for Sai. She's more interested in doing what she thinks the right thing is rather than whatever the local law says it is.
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Esna came out Lawful Good, but to be honest I don't think that's accurate.
In-universe, I'd see him as Neutral Good - while he will often subvert rules or local authorities, he does so in the interests of the greater good. Where laws aren't directly damaging to the people, however, he has no issue with obeying them and paying deference to the authorities.
From the context of the modern Western World, however... he's Chaotic neutral at best. He's an immensely rich commander of incredibly rich vessels who buys things and ruins peoples on a whim... even if he tries to do good, he hurts - and kills - a lot of people in the process.
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Test came out Chaotic good, but I've always pinned Milo as either Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil, as he's generally just out for himself and his close associates/What little family he still has contact with.
I'm not a huge fan of applying alignment systems to EVE, as there's so many shades of grey, but it's interesting to see how your character turns out.
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Allrighty...
only going to answer for one of my characters here, because i honestly can't decide where the other two would fit..
Unit XS365BT ... Strongly Lawful Neutral.
oh... and ghost.. since 3rd edition the DnD alignment system is no longer subjective. good is good, evil is evil... even if they think they are doing the good / right thing.... ergo.. kuvie's little band be evil.. those lovely people at CCP even said so.
as for my opinions on faction alignments...
well..
Amarr - LN leaning towards LE. while some of their methods are undoubtedly evil, they are used for supposedly good ends... basically the majority of the Amarr are imho LN... however they are let down by the ruling class, who are primarily LE, due to the institutionalised use of slavery / Vitoc / TCMC's
Caldari - LN, leaning towards LE. As with the Amarr, the ruling class let down the majority of the caldari people, who are law abiding, hard working types... their leaders are callous, uncaring (for anything other than their own profit margins) and calculating.
Gallente - Neutral. a freedom loving people who at times even flaunt their own laws, the gallente are imho predominantly neutral, the idea CCP seem to like reinforcing is a remarkably hedonistic people, living for the moment, and the comforts of family and home above most other things. Their leadership changes too often to be a remarkably strong influence on the people as a whole, leaving that role to the media...
Minmatar - NG leaning towards CG. While not a lawless people, they are a disparate group, laws are different for each tribe, and likely each sub-group within the tribes, however, the underlying rules are simple, family and tribe first, help those around you, and retrieve your enslaved brethren.
all that said, as seri wrote, each of the factions contains all 9 alignments, in varying amounts. though on the alignment spectrum it does seem that CCP have given the caldari and amarr the short end of the stick... (if this wasn't an online game that is... the internet does always seem to bring out the worst in people... whereas i have noticed that in single player environments, most people don't like to be the bad guy...)
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I'm just going to echo what others have said RE: the alignment system, really -- EVE intentionally plays up the shades of grey deal. Granted, some factions may be darker or lighter shades than other, but something to try and draw a dichotomy between "good" and "evil" just doesn't seem to fit EVE for factions, let alone characters that are (usually, anyway) orders of magnitude more complex as people.
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Neutral good. Lawful evil fits far more right now considering the man's world-view, situation and many ideas for what is acceptable actions.
This makes him a tad better than most of the chaotic/evil eggers about, as I'm sure most player's toons would arrive in the mostly-bad end of the alignment, given EVE's grim-dark universe. Far as the D&D alignment chart is concerned, there are no good guys in EVE. We would need an entierly differnet chart tailored for the reality of the EVE universe.
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Chaotic Good
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While I don't think the D&D alignment system really applies all that well to Eve (moral grays, lack of great cosmic wheel, oversimplistic, yadda yadda) ...
Aria Jenneth: lawful neutral with chaotic evil tendencies, dedication to order and clarity undermined by a thread of vicious, contrary stubbornness and perversity. Not complete, but accurate as far as it goes.
Edit:
Rok-Yuni - about the factions ...
I think that actually all four of the empire factions are aspirationally good, and this is one of the places where the "wheel" cosmology breaks down: every empire faction looks "good" from its own point of view, and you can easily write an impassioned defense of any of them in good faith from a member of the society.
Amarr: Lawful good.
"The one hope of peace, order, and prosperity for mankind is to be restored to the service of God, the all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-benevolent. This is the one hope, the one light, of the universe; all who stand outside are, tragically, lost. Our methods appear harsh, even wicked, to outsiders: we enslave their people, break down their cultures, and press them unwillingly into God's service. What they fail to understand is that this is their only hope; they are strong-willed, and set in their ways. Therefore, as sad as this duty may be, it is only by being broken, by losing their identities and their will, that they can be saved from the illusions that only lead them into torment, chaos, war, and, eventually, damnation.
"It is not for ourselves, but for the good of all humanity, that we must be unwavering in our devotion, though they may name us monsters for it. The future of our species, and of our very souls, depends on it."
Caldari: Lawful good (inward; lawful neutral re: outsiders, as the Caldari themselves would probably admit with a shrug).
"The universe is a vast place, and harsh. As it was with our heroic ancestors, if we are to survive, we must, first and last, look after our own. It is only through hard work, respect for tradition and authority, and obedience to our superiors that we can secure our place. Through this-- through cooperation and dedication to the common good-- we can secure a future, for ourselves and for our descendants.
"As the universe is harsh, so are the tasks facing us. To meet the challenge, we must order our society for optimal efficiency. There are those fit to lead, those fit to follow, and those unfit for either purpose. It is the business of our educational systems, and of our corporate meritocracies, to distinguish each from the others. Those who can be of service to their communities, their corporations, and their fellow Caldari as a people are placed so as to best aid in those roles.
"It is true that those who cannot serve their fellows, for whom no productive place can be found, sometimes fall by the wayside. It is a hard truth, but if we are to build a nation worthy of the heritage of the Raata, it can be no other way. Provide for those you care for, and help them to find a place. Failing that....
"We must remember, always, that what we do is for the sake of our children, and our children's children, down the cold corridors of time. Though the winter winds may howl beyond our walls, we must stand the test and feed the fires that warm us, together, united, for the sake of all Caldari."
Gallente: Neutral good.
[Insert your own impassioned, pro-representative democracy, pro-human rights, pro-civil disobedience (by other cultures' dissidents), possibly more than slightly libertarian-flavored screed here]
Minmatar: Lawful good.
"A thousand years ago, the vile Slavers descended from our ancestors' skies.
"These invaders took our land, yes, but it was not our land that they wanted. They wanted ourselves, our lives, our souls, bound into their service and the service of their god. To do this, they took our bodies and then set about destroying everything else about us.
"They tried, and tried their damnedest, but we survived. We persevered. Much was lost. And now, we are free! Free to follow our own ways, our own gods, our own leaders! Free to be as our ancestors were once before, to recover the old ways, the old laws!
"Much has been lost. The Amarr took our culture, our gods, our people. Even now, many of your own blood labor in their fields. Many more, twisted by a life in servitude worship the Amarrian god, the god of slavers!
"These, all of these, will be restored to us. This war will not end until our brothers and sisters are back among us. Those we have lost to the slaver god, we will have back-- and as for our lost traditions, our archaeologists learn more of our past with every passing day.
"The Gallente have been friends to us, it is true, but they are not of us, and they do not understand. They have lived easy lives, and however horrified they may be by the Amarr, they have never carried the burdens we have. Nor can they see the value, the importance, of what was stolen from us.
"Our beliefs, our traditions, our tribes, our way of life. Our form of government. All that we have lost, we must reclaim; only then, only when we are, once again, entirely ourselves will we be truly and entirely released the curse, the blight, the Amarr placed on our ancestors.
"Only then, when we are once more the tribes of Matar, entirely and fully, will we be truly free!"
The other factions seem like more of a mixed bag. SoE: clear Neutral good, in much the same way as Amnesty International: naiive, maybe; bad, no. ORE strikes me as having no special aspirations as a civilization: it's mostly a corporation that doesn't much like having its neck breathed down by other interests. So, probably Neutral. Same with InterBus.
Jove? ... Probably wistfully LG with regard to their own, could be almost anything with regard to others.
Then you've got the pirate factions: even more of a mixed bag. The Guristas strike me as aspirationally chaotic, with motives ranging all up and down the moral scale from "freedom fighter" (good) to "murderous thug" (obviously, evil). The Angel Cartel's leadership is apparently exceptionally ruthless (so, evil), but the organization itself is all about the internal law and order, so it could be cast as a LN version of the Caldari (with cheerfully LE attitudes towards the rest of the universe). The Blood Raiders, and Sani Sabik in general, are essentially cults of personal power in one way or another, so they'd be nigh-on unique in being outright aspirationally evil.
Meh. Being as the "great wheel" doesn't allow for nationality, this all doesn't really work very well, but it's a fun exercise in any case.
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Another thing to consider is combining alignment (or intent is better in EVE's case) with personality. For example, Seriphyn came out as Lawful Good (or sincere/selfless in EVE's case) yet publically he is quite aggressive and brash (his private personality I don't really publically disclose so that folks can explore it in RP). Similarly, you may have "Evil" characters (selfish, power-seeking in EVE's case) who will be a lot more nicer, polite and friendly than Seriphyn.
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I think it becomes a whole lot easier if you have two alignments for each character or organisation - Intentions and Methods. For example:
Amarr Empire
The Amarr Empire generally believes that it's helping the world by spreading its religion, but the methodology by which it approaches this task causes immense suffering. However, it approaches the torture and enslavement of millions with the same organisation and rigorous bureaucracy it would approach civil management. Whatever else you call them, the Amarrians are far from disorganised.
Intentions: Lawful Good
Methods: Lawful Evil
Minmatar Republic
The Minmatar Republic, at heart, just want to free their people from slavery and be left in peace. They are, however, willing to go to any length and perform acts of extraordinary violence to get their way, but they've never quite let their intentions sink to all-out retributory genocide - yet.
Intentions: Chaotic Good
Methods: Chaotic Neutral
Gallente Federation
At heart, the Gallente Federation's core ideals are pretty much the very definition of Neutral Good - have a set of laws that's just strict enough to protect people from each other, but maximise personal freedom. The methods they use to defend their freedom, however, generally follow a strong consequentialist ideology - the end can justify the means. Most Gallente believe that while this philosophy is largely true, it has its limits - but some more fanatical defenders of the Eagle do not.
Intentions: Neutral Good
Methods: Generally Neutral, extremist factions tend to be Neutral Evil or Chaotic Neutral
Caldari State
The Caldari State might just be the "purest" of the four main factions, because while the ideologies of its intentions and its methods might not really match, most of the ethical and moral standards behind them do. At heart, the Caldari believe that a man's successes define him, and that success is success, no matter what shape it takes. That said, there are a few lines one shouldn't cross, and a few things that just aren't done. To the Caldari, good and evil are useful theoretical concepts, but trust and honour are very real and tangible things.
Intentions: Lawful Neutral
Methods: Lawful Neutral
Blood Raider Covenant
The Blood Raider Covenant's ideologies aren't that objectionable in and of themselves. Most people who aren't Amarrian religious hardliners object to the Covenant not because of what they believe (after all, there are far weirder religious cults in the world of EVE), but because of the really rather nasty things that they do.
Intentions: Chaotic Neutral
Methods: Chaotic Evil
Sansha's Nation
Sansha's Nation, to the pragmatic, has never really looked like anything other than a vanity project. It's one man's dream to rule a world of cybernetically lobotomised humans slaved to his will. The thing is, his dream was of a society so ordered that free will would become obselete, whereas his recent methodology has been ludicrously insane and seemingly designed to cause as much panic and chaos as possible.
Intentions: Lawful Evil
Methods: Chaotic Evil
Intaki Syndicate
I strongly believe if there was such a concept as "Aggressively Neutral", the Intaki Syndicate would epitomise it.
Intentions: Neutral
Methods: Neutral
Equilibrium of Man
They quite literally want to destroy all sentient life, and every action we've seen them take has been in service of this goal. What more need be said?
Intentions: Chaotic Evil
Methods: Chaotic Evil
Andreus Ixiris
Andreus strongly believes the only morally acceptable society is one that gives its citizens as much personal freedom as possible, and that the Federation is by far the closest to achieving this goal. There's very little he wouldn't do to defend it, no matter how morally questionable it was - but he wouldn't perform them for simple personal satisfaction. He'd have to know there'd be some tangible benefit to the Federation.
Intentions: Chaotic Good
Methods: Neutral
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Andreas, that was one of the most coherent and reasoned pieces of writing I've seen from you.
It almost makes me want to roll up a Gallente character too.
Thank you.
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Strongly disagree with people who portray the Minmatar as "Chaotic". The Minmatar are strongly communal and organized as such. Tribal based societies arent "wild and uncivilized". If anything, tribal societies have a vast number of taboos, practices and traditions that influence daily behavior, as much if not more so than a "civilized" nation.
The fact that they arent recognizable to the Western eye as "laws" doesnt mean theyre not strongly structured and organized.
I would say the State is quite often Lawful Evil as well, given the state of much of their population and their willingness to go to extremes to make a profit or further their goals. (adding slaver runs, TCMC chips, etc)
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Been lurking about the forums and keeping an eye on this thread long before I signed up for Backstage. Being I use to play D&D back in the day, it's only natural that this would catch my attention, of all things. :P
One thing I wanted to point out that I think the Wizards' quiz seems to fail to portray at is the Lawful part of the alignment process. Discussions from my D&D days with other RPers, I'm reminded that, while "lawful" generally tends to mean obeying the "laws of the land" in most people's minds, it's not the only thing that can declare someone as lawful. An example would be moral codes. If someone has a strict moral code and abides by it, that can classify them as lawful. A person who follows the laws of their faith can also be placed as lawful, even if they have to break the "laws of the land" to follow such a faith. This is just some food for thought.
Now, as for my own character, most of the time I would classify her as Neutral Good, but she could at times be classified as Lawful Good as well. As a friend put it, while she tends to be strict with her training, repays debts she thinks she owes, tries her best to keep her word and things of that nature, Rin has an independent streak to her that certainly places her more within the Neutral Good boundaries. Maybe I should just say she's an alignment hopper. ;)
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Rin's lap is Chaotic Good.
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Took the WotC test for Reppy - got Neutral Good. Thought I'd mention it, though I disagree.
Honestly she doesn't fit well into the alignment system. I can make arguments for just about every possible selection - Chaotic Neutral is probably the best I can come up with. She's outwardly she probably comes across as Chaotic Good; she's a Holder, but she bucks the traditions and embraces a more modern view of slavery. Inwardly she's got enough schizophrenia and traumas from past experiences to push her definitely into neutral, and occasionally even evil.
Mortis is an easy Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil. He's a cold bastard who runs a tight operation to his own ends with little care for others - but he does have his own codes of conduct that he rigidly sticks to.
Elysa is probably a solid Lawful Neutral. She's done good, done evil, and has an intensely pragmatic take on the world that means she'll do whatever feels necessary. A Caldari's Caldari in many ways.
And Ashley... I honestly don't know. That girl twists my mind in knots sometimes, trying to work out why she does stuff.
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Wei Loh, like me RL, is more or (quite a bit) less True Neutral, though if you see that as a spectrum instead of just "black, white, gray", it'd be more of "leaning toward chaotic, with a barely discernable lean to good. Sometimes."
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The test says Garion is Lawful Good.
This is accurate, to an extent. Certainly that is how he acts in public and is his 'ideal.'
In defense of the things he believes in and the people he cares about, though, he is willing to do almost anything to protect them, so there is some possibility for dissonance there. Most of the time he's pretty much white-knight, upstanding citizen.
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Zuzu came out Chaotic Neutral. This isn't really a suprise since I took the test as if she was taking it.
The problem as Andreus put so well is intention. Zuzu believes wholeheartedly that she is doing a good thing and most her friends would say she is a good person. However, I see what Zuzu does and she is the embodiment of evil and brainwashing. I don't even think she's sane!
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Chaotic Neutral.
Daniel's pretty twisted and prone to doing just about whatever he likes in pursuit of his passions. He does have very strong views about protecting baseliners from capsuleers, but he's equally rather nonchalant about murdering thousands every other day while they are in the employ of a capsuleer. As such, defenitely chaotic, but impossible to really cast as good or evil.
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SUCH MIND-SHATTERING THREAD NECRO
Having a guess, N'maro is probably Neutral Good with a sneaking admiration for the Chaotic Good.
SYNE I think is mostly on a True Neutral kind of line, with a Neutral Good streak now and again.
Hell, who knows, I could be making a dogs dinner of the whole system.
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The WotC test thinks Gaven is Lawful Neutral.
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I preferred the other alignment thread. (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=5015.0) I did a big character analysis (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=5015.msg80835#msg80835)using a modified system in that thread.
I think I'll go necro it.
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Mighty necro powers activate. Using the test and my own best guesses, the Wotc test finds Ninavask Chaotic Neutral, which seems fairly accurate. As those who have know him care he pretty obviously is likely doing nasty nasty research things in super secret places, but on the other side can be a bit humanitarian, and heck as the Sansharz know he at least think's he is white knighting.
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I just did the WotC test, got neutral evil, which is well suited for what Bay does. *grins*
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Retook this and a few other tests and never really got a definitive answer.
Lawful Evil
Neutral Evil
Chaotic Evil
So guess she's evil now with varying degrees of the other given...whatever changes that bit I guess.
Surprisingly I'm not bothered by this and am actually pretty amused by it.
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(http://www.d20monkey.com/comics/2014-04-23-20140423.png)
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Yuni = Lawful Neutral with Good tendencies.
that fits her quite well i guess.
Rok = Chaotic Good....
ok... i'll admit i thought CN at first, but guess i was a little out... most of his beliefs to lean more towards good.
Dilaro (R.I.P) = Neutral Evil.
Knowing that he'd do anything at all to find the peace (and vengeance) he was seeking, this fits perfectly. Giving up on the rule of law, and the 'right thing' .... he sought both justice and revenge... neither are inherently good goals... :P
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(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/e/e1/Color_Wheel.jpg)
Andreus is Red-Blue.
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Ava = Lawful Good.
Not really surprised; Tradition and tribal life are everything to her, as is her duty to tribe and clan.
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I did some online myers-briggs test for my two characters for a laugh recently and ended with Veikitamo as an INTJ and Hevaima as an ENTJ.
All I got from it was that Veikitamo is some kind of mastermind villain and Hevaima is a proper corporate executive.
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Cakzad would be Lawful Good to fellow Faithful, but Lawful Evil to those not of faith.
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Aria "Vesper" Jenneth: Neutral.
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Rok and Yuni are still the same as above really, though Rok is pushing towards true neutral more than chaotic good if i'm honest.
Now for the 'new' guy...
Miyamoto Takedi, Lawful Evil (leaning Lawful Neutral)
While his lifestyle is very rigidly held within both his cultural Achuran and Caldari traits, his interpretation of the rules can be cold and in some ways combative, having trained under his grandsire (Kensai Miyamoto Tesshu) in the use of Achuran bladework, it is possible that he was responsible for several deaths prior to his late teens.
This training has left him a little detached from the more social aspects of life and in many ways left the cold and calculating aspect of his nature become more pronounced.
He is intolerant of idiocy and foolishness in most of it's forms and has a somewhat twisted sense of humour.
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Scherezad would be neutral or lawful good.
Foley would be chaotic good or chaotic neutral.
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MY EVE character would have to be Lawful Neutral but I always liked to think of him as more a neutral Evil. As a person I always wanted Soren to be a rather unlike-able, grizzled individual.... though I can't really think of anything evil he has done yet.