Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Guides, Mechanics & Gameplay => Topic started by: Katrina Oniseki on 26 Jun 2011, 14:26
-
I don't know why I'm having such a time with this darn thing. I'm really trying. My tank wasn't holding up in a L2 against mercs, and I survived mainly because it was a L2 and there weren't many enemies around to break the buffer.
What am I doing wrong here?
[Harbinger, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Heat Sink II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Auto Targeting System I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
-
Out of curiosity: What's your BC skill level?
-
Three. I should probably get it to four. I had to check just to make sure, because I thought it was four... but then I realized I didn't rightly know -what- it was at. I haven't had problems with the other three tier 2 BCs. This is the first one giving me any headache. My armor skills aren't the best either, having trained shield first and primarily. Even so, they aren't bad.
EFT is showing my defense to be a measly 184 against mercs with all level 5 skills. At my current skill levels... 172.
-
which mission ?, also for mercenaries, kin/kin/th is more usual.
-
This mission. (http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionOfMercy2)
-
I've done that mission several times recently while I was grinding with RKN to fix my Amarr faction standing. My tactic for it was to snipe the assault frig rats while they were at range, and then just shoot the Lieutenants as they spawned, ignoring the Commanders.
You're not using T2 guns so you won't have the advantage of Scorch, but you should experiment in the meantime with a couple of the longer-range crystals to see if you can get enough damage while staying in optimal - and do train for the T2 guns, the ability to use Scorch is well worth it.
-
First and foremost, the guns you're using are too heavy with too low of tracking to deal with frigates. Since you're not using webifiers, you'll need to equip slightly smaller guns. I recommend Focused Medium Anode Pulse Particle Stream Is, as they have a very good mix of range and firepower.
Secondly, three hardeners is going to make things really hard on your capacitor for tanking. I recommend dropping the second Thermic Hardener and putting on some plating to give you a larger buffer. The armor rep and DC will help you reduce damage intake pretty significantly and the buffer with the plating will give you plenty of time to take some hits.
Beyond that, I recommend carrying three crystal types with you. Radio, Standard and X-Ray (or Multifrequency). Switch them out based on the range of the encounter (using Standard if your entire tank modules are active, as it is the easiest on your capacitor and will allow you to tank for longer). When engaging frigates, fly away from them - in a straight line. This will allow you to hit them from farther away and reduce their transversal by quite a bit.
You probably already knew most of that, but it's just basic advice in case you didn't. :) Hope it helps!
-
You should be able to take out the frigs with drones.
You could consider losing the ab and the heat sink and adding a fourth cap recharger and a second repper. Also, rigging with triple CCCs.
-
I'd suggest hopping into a BS.
-
Think about fitting a Tracking Enhancer (low) or Tracking Computer (med) if you're having trouble to apply your damage.
-
How's your drone skills? They are usually the best way to take care of pesky frigates. As for scorch, lvl2's just don't justify the costs of the crystals.
I'd also recommend going 2x kin hard 2x therm hard rep and dc II for the lows and changing ofc the hards to suit the mission at hand but that's a given.
-
Well, Level 2s shouldn't give me any problem if I can properly tank the Harb for L3s. Unfortunately, if a L2 is giving me trouble, it means a L3 will outright get me killed.
So, I'm trying to get the optimal tradeoff between DPS and tank with this thing.
I could drop the AB, true, but I'm wary of having NO damage mods on this boat. Is it really a good idea to go without heat sinks?
-
I currently fly a Harbinger for L3s, let me show you what I'm using:
--High--
7x Focused Medium Anode Particle Stream I (Beam Lasers) (Don't have the skills for t2 guns yet)
--Med--
Y-58 Hydrocarbon Afterburner
3x Cap Recharger II
--Low--
Damage Control II
2x C-Type Corpii Small Armor Repairer (This will be replaced with 1 Medium Armor Repair II when I have the skills)
Armor Kinetic Hardener II (Switch as necessary based on who we're engaging)
Armor Explosive Hardener II (Switch as necessary based on who we're engaging)
Heat Sink II
(Will be replacing one of the Armor Repairers with a tracking enhancer once I have the skills)
This set up tanks pretty solidly for about 10 minutes and can repair 184 DPS without losing its armor. Just alternate turning the reppers on as needed and kill the afterburner when the cap reaches 50% and you can tank pretty much indefinitely.
-
What do you use for rigs?
-
Oh...right. I currently don't have any rigs on it because again, I don't have the skills for it.
Once I have the skills, I'll be adding:
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
-
may i suggest posting here for advice?
http://failheap-challenge.com/viewforum.php?f=11
Its the "bitter vet" forum by excellence, but they are damn good at getting the most out of your ship.
-
I'd suggest hopping into a BS.
If the OP has difficulty tanking a level 2 mission in a Harbinger, using a battleship in level 3s seems likely to result in larger problems.
-
I'd suggest hopping into a BS.
If the OP has difficulty tanking a level 2 mission in a Harbinger, using a battleship in level 3s seems likely to result in larger problems.
Actually, I'm quiet well skilled for PvE if I do say so myself. I use a Raven regularly in L4s, as well as a Dominix. I've used a Hurricane up to L3s, Myrmidon, Vexor, Caracal, Drake. I've even managed to get a Ferox to perform moderately in a L3. This is why I'm frustrated with the Harbi, a tier 2 BC. It should be easier to work with than the others, or so I'd like to believe.
It just shocked me how my armor tank wasn't holding in a level TWO mission, using a battlecruiser. It blew my mind. I shouldn't have a hard time with it, not with my skills, not with that ship, and not with the mission level I was doing. In my frustration, I posted here to get some ideas.
So far I've decided to dual-rep the ship with two mediums. It takes a triple CCC rigging, and I can't run the AB constantly (not like it's useful to anyways with that ship), but I've got it to work.
EDIT:
In retrospect, the number of cruisers I was handling at once was pretty close to the intensity of a L3.
-
can't actually check the mission while I'm at work so I can only make generic suggestions. first off, three hardeners should be enough for a lvl 2 mission - if they are the right ones. You may want to experiment with the combination and with throwing in an exp hardener, as you have a massive exp hole that mercs may poke at times. I've had issues with that doing the Damsel with a dual rep domi - don't plug the exp hole, get your shit ruined.
Also, when running missions, I generally find that another hardener is more valuable than the DCU, but that's just me. There's plenty of good reasons to never undock without a DCU.
-
Also, when running missions, I generally find that another hardener is more valuable than the DCU, but that's just me. There's plenty of good reasons to never undock without a DCU.
I don't know why, but for some reason I always find the opposite. I end up with higher resists with the DCU than I do with a third hardener...hrm.
-
Well, I don't know what's going on, but there was hardly any lvl3 missions that I could not do in a Harbinger fitted thusly:
6 Heavy Beam lasers (of various sorts) tractor beam + salvager.
Afterburner, Cap rechargers.
MAR II, 4 hardeners, damage control
drones
-
My current fitting, after much revision, looks like this:
[Harbinger, PvE L3 dual rep]
Heat Sink II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency M
Auto Targeting System I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Acolyte I x5
Acolyte I x5
Hardeners get swapped out based on most optimal tank. DCU is extremely useful in mitigating shield damage and giving me those precious seconds in structure if I need to warp out. Unless my tank is foolproof for the mission at hand, I never leave home without one.
Auto-targeter is a good utility slot. Gives me two more targets to lock without having to actually activate the thing. I usually don't bother with salvaging outside of a Noctis.
I suppose I could swap pulses for beams. Do you think that's a good idea? It might not be so easy to fit the ship if I did.
At any rate, I rarely have range issues. Radio for 25-20km, Standard for 20-10km, Multifrequency for 10-5km, drones for under 5km frigs. Pulse AB, run second rep only when nessecary, but I'm able to permarun both MARs if I need to. Overload is also an option.
-
There are a couple of reasons I prefer beams over pulses for missioning:
First, DPS is not quite as important since you're not "racing against the opponent's DPS" and the tanks you have to break aren't quite as resilient as other player's tanks will be.
Second, there are a lot of missions where you're warped in from an acceleration gate at like 50km away from your target and they have stasis towers that can hit from God knows how far away. You'll never get in range to hit the stupid towers and survive all the incoming DPS on your way there at 70m/s.
It also allows you to pull range against enemies easier, which can dramatically reduce the incoming DPS and allow you to ease up on your tank so your capacitor can recharge.
-
Hmm... dual rep harbi... In general, unless you can get it cap stable running both, the second repper is a wasted slot. Just my opinion, but you're better off with another hardener. Limiting yourself to only one doesn't usually work well, especially if you're doing a mission with more than two damage types.
I generally hate CCC rigs unless you absolutely have to have them to get cap stable tank, which you shouldn't with decent skills and a rack of CR 2s. Maybe one or two, the rest aux nano.
Something to check, if you have the grid, is whether a heavy cap battery would do more for you than a CR. Again, only if you have the spare PG.
For drones, I don't know that there is any enemy for which Amarr does are optimal. Pretty much everything except angels dies fastest to gallente drones, and angels obviously die best to minnie drones. I'd also recommend getting a couple mediums in there, unless you expect to be losing drones during mission (t1 are cheap enough it doesn't matter).
BTW, get t2 drones asap. Only takes two lvl 1 skills to 5, HUGE improvement.
-
The drone choice is easy to explain. I tend to 'theme' my ships. If it's an Amarr ship, I put Amarr drones in it. Not terribly effective, but I'm not really a numbers pusher unless it relates to tank.
It's cap stable running both as well, I might add. And if I switch over to beams and drop the AB, I can run everything permenantly. I'll be using an Ancillary Current, CCC, and Aux Nano Pump for the rigs.
-
Raze anyway, thats what is amazing with beams, they are almost as much as powerful than pulses. Actually if you look deeper into the stats, they have around 30% more firepower AND tracking than artillery or railguns.
-
Raze anyway, thats what is amazing with beams, they are almost as much as powerful than pulses. Actually if you look deeper into the stats, they have around 30% more firepower AND tracking than artillery or railguns.
Yeah. Playing around with them in EFT, you get about 45% higher alpha for only 15% lower DPS when you use Beam lasers as opposed to Pulse lasers. It really comes down to the purpose of the ship and how you intend to fly it. If you're going to be pulling range and/or using webs and other range controlling EWar, Beam lasers are actually a pretty viable choice, even in PvP.
But if you're flying up close and personal and need better tracking and slightly higher DPS (which tends to be the overall flavor of PvP), Pulses just win out in the end.
-
Your first setup is the exact fit I used for L3's a month or so ago, except with T1 Focused Medium Pulses. I had no tanking problems as long as I was using the proper hardeners until I lost it by going afk not realizing I had pulled aggro in a room (derp). T2 turrets would have been nice since Radio really leaves something to be desired. After that I switched to an artillery hurricane, which worked just fine but got mind numbingly boring after a while.
Just the other day I fitted up a Retribution for L3's and I'm completing them faster and having more fun doing so (♥ frigs), I will not be going back to a BC for PVE. I can do The Blockade without my tank even cringing. The only downside is the Retribution's one midslot. It makes me cry because I feel no frigate should ever be without a point and I do missions in null sec so those kind of opportunities will arise from time to time, but it's not like my mission BC fits would have had a disruptor either.
-
Personally I find the Prophecy to be a much better PvE boat of the two Imperial T1 options.
The cap use and armour resistance bonuses really help. Plus, it's usually cheaper IIRC.