Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 18 Apr 2010, 11:12
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The Amarr Empire is interesting...PF infers that there are many many different racial groups that aren't stated, but the overall trend there is that the Empire eats up any cultures beneath it.
The Federation however, after being asskicked by the Caldari in the first war, knows restraint and lets the cultures reside in its borders to varying degrees of happiness. The Federation I think has many types of RL nations and their concepts in it, such as the US and UK. Federally, you have districts which are composed of wards, and then you have sub-districts, which I have no idea what is composed of or what size it comes into between district and ward. But then, you have individual planetary governments, where one planet might have "more than one" (my little chron about 'The Fisherman War of Averon VII') was exploring this line of PF. The old EVE intro vid has "regional federation of independent states", and we have to remember this; it's a federation, and despite the Federal model of things we see on the in-game news and Scope (Senators, districts, wards etc.) there is no doubt plenty of small political variations which aren't mentioned. PF states how "The way the planetary governments operate is just as diverse as the individual Gallenteans themselves".
The Intaki Assembly is an example of this, and perhaps bears resemblance to how Scotland exists in the UK. The Assembly exists in its own sphere of politics the same way the Scottish Parliament does in relation to Westminster. While the Intaki system will have its own district parliament, Senator and governor (the same way Scotland has MPs in Westminster), it has the Intaki Assembly too (like how Scotland has MSPs)
The Caldari State I believe you can't compare to any RL nation since it's so alien to any of our known concepts (as Svetlana Scarlet has started in her dialogues). In our society corporations are out there to get money, and seeing them as great things to serve is pretty damn "wut". The closest thing was communism which was the opposite...the State is the communist version of capitalism..???
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The Federation however, after being asskicked by the Caldari in the first war, knows restraint and lets the cultures reside in its borders to varying degrees of happiness.
I would have to disagree with pretty much this whole statement. The PF indicates that at the time of cease fire the Caldari and Gallente had entered into a stalemate. I suppose you could say that the Gallente were "asskicked" if you consider the extreme disparity in the Federation and State's resources, man power and technology at the on set of the war. With that kind of advantage the Gallente should have been able to bring total defeat to the Caldari in a very short amount of time. I can agree that they didn't re-conquer the Caldari can be considered a defeat, because their goal was not reached while for the Caldari survival was the goal.
I would disagree that the "defeat" caused the Federation to use more restraint. Restraint is not some thing I wold associate with the Federation. I think the Gallente have a cultural superiority complex and that the Caldari resisted and are still resisting them threatens their position as the ones chosen to bring the true faith of democracy to the cluster and they therefore must be crushed.
I think the whole cultural acceptance thing is just a "party line", and once you've signed on the dotted line they send in the quafe trucks.
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=343&tid=4
http://www.americanforeignrelations.com/A-D/Cultural-Imperialism.html
http://ics.leeds.ac.uk/papers/vp01.cfm?outfit=gdr&requesttimeout=500&folder=675&paper=756
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1374/is_3_64/ai_n6060907/
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Topic split because it's an interesting discussion that deserves its own thread.
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There are historical examples of effective corporate states, in fact. The British East India Company is probably the most famous. You also see something of the same in certain places in Africa today.
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We, players, seem to forget how different the State's megacorporations are from our "modern" view of corporations.
Certainly they have profit-motive, but so do states. A state generally prefers to be a net exporter versus importer. The balance sheet or exports vs imports is a state's profit motive.
The State's megacorps are vertically and horizontally integrated to as large an extent as possible. They each have a currency, their own military forces, judicial codes, and enforce practices which encourage the purchasing of domestic goods by consumers.
I do not agree that there are no points of comparison between the State and some historical entities, it very much depends on the level at which you wish to compare them.
The idea that the corporation takes care of its loyal employees could be considered capitalist socialism.
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We, players, seem to forget how different the State's megacorporations are from our "modern" view of corporations.
Certainly they have profit-motive, but so do states. A state generally prefers to be a net exporter versus importer. The balance sheet or exports vs imports is a state's profit motive.
The State's megacorps are vertically and horizontally integrated to as large an extent as possible. They each have a currency, their own military forces, judicial codes, and enforce practices which encourage the purchasing of domestic goods by consumers.
I do not agree that there are no points of comparison between the State and some historical entities, it very much depends on the level at which you wish to compare them.
The idea that the corporation takes care of its loyal employees could be considered capitalist socialism.
First, it's necessarily socialized capitalism insofar as it is either; a system that is socialist first simply does not feature interaction with uncontrolled markets; it shuts itself from the outside completely, becoming an autarky as completely as possible, which is simply untrue of the State. Second, to a greater extent it is actually fascism.
From Wikipedia, because I am a lazy whore and it's not a bad summary of the more complex definitions in play:
"Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy....Fascists supported the unifying of proletarian workers to their cause along corporatistic, socialistic, or syndicalistic lines, promoting the creation of a strong proletarian nation, but not a proletarian class."
However, the competition in the state throws a wrench into the works here, albeit not as big a wrench as it does for calling the state socialist:
"Oswald Mosley of the British Union of Fascists described fascist corporatism, saying that "it means a nation organized as the human body, with each organ performing its individual function but working in harmony with the whole".[198] Fascists were not hostile to the petite bourgeoisie or to small businesses, and promised these groups protection alongside the proletariat from the upper-class bourgeoisie, big business, and Marxism. The promotion of these groups is the source of the term 'extremism of the centre' to describe fascism.[199]"
The lack of competition required for traditional fascism isn't really a help; while fundamentally the State's megacorporations function on the macroscale to compete with the economic apparatus of other nations as a traditional Fascist nation's corporations might, they also compete amongst each other significantly.
As such, the State's fascism is capitalist but NOT terribly socialist, which makes the correct word order in the intermix of these fun little systems, from least influence to greatest, as follows:
"Socialized capitalist fascism."
Say it with me, even - the Caldari state is a system organized according to principles of socialized, capitalist fascism.
Woo.
Parenthetically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_champions
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Interesting entry (http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/2010/04/transport-nexus-ii-prince-versus.html) from a blog I read concerning the development of "governance" in Space outpost/stations.
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/me adds to an already-bursting feed reader... :D