Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Laurentis Thiesant on 13 Aug 2010, 07:02
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1368197
Oh noes! More Jin-Mei, and they're evil I say, evil!
Although this may just be the kick in the teeth I need, who knows.
:)
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It should make things more interesting for you.
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Yeah. That, which I don't mind - I've had fun so far.
Only problem in, this is a small pool. So, we'll see how we go there. :D
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Oh god canon arguments in an IC forum. It looked so promising too...
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I don't understand this at all, IC, or OOC, this makes no sense....
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I'll admit my attention wandered off to get some ice cream (soon followed by the rest of me) as soon as Alba Miri mentioned she was Sang Do.
I was kinda hoping for a Jing Ko's stepping up and saying "hey, guys -- our so-called benevolent Sang Do overlords and Saan Go betters sold us out <yadda yadda>" ... but that's probably just me.
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Actually, I smiled when I saw this, because it's one of the first times I've seen someone decide to pick on a (relatively) unused faction than open the same old arguements all over again with existing factions. Hopefully, they can keep it from just being a re-hash of, say, the Intaki-spereratists-vs-Federation-loyalists or Khanid-Seperatists-vs-Amarrian-Loyalists threads.
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Oh come on and admit it, it is you alt :D
Also, I welcome another third bloodline separatist movement. Let me know when your alt wants to alliance up for joint Jin-Mei/Achur separatist action :D
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Separatism isn't cool anymore; everyone's doing it. It's like twitter.
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YAY for sarcasm!
Oh, and do people still use twitter?
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Ok, I admit it! It's kinda fun - and it makes Jianni angry, which is something I've been waiting for.
No, not my alt. MY ENEMY!
anyways...
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Not gonna lie: Looked awesome at first. Thought that it might be worth throwing some funds into the project (Through a proxy corp of course) to fuel some infighting amongst the 'dirty
slave kind heretics hedonist dogs'. But ultimately it's not going to last for two reasons.
1. Very few people care for their goal.
2. Very few people care for openly terrorist mindsets.
Now, there are plenty of organizations that can get away with one or the other. DFIA, for instance, got away with number two spectacularly. But they were Minmatar Freedom Fighters, and fighting for Matari Liberation has enough support that they still had a decent base to draw on. The ILF got away with number one to an extent (Though as time went on number one became less and less of an issue) because they were peaceful and reasonable chaps, so they got a decent base to draw from.
Now, the fact is that despite the Jin-Mei having about twice as much of a culture gap between the Gallente and themselves as the Intaki do, they're not a particularly popular culture to RP. Let's face it, the people who decided "I want to play the people who are at the front lines of truth and justice!" aren't usually also the people who think "Caste system? Sign me up!". Kind of why the Ni-Kunni aren't too popular - "Arrogant religious tyrants, **** yeah!" and "Second class citizens, sounds good!" aren't two sentences normally spoken in the same breath.
Then you restrict this already small group to the people within who are willing to, let's face it, do things that basically no one else can IC agree with, including most of those who want the same thing you do. Piracy is at least seen as honest: They like to fight, and they want your money. Terrorists do things that most people believe can be accomplished peacefully (Which is, in fact, the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter if you think about it), and so are seen as hiding their true intents (Power, wealth, psychopathy) behind legitimate morals (Freedom, justice, dolls of Graelyn).
The resulting cross-section is basically you, a couple friends, and some non-RPers you convinced to join your club anyway. No people, no power.
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the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter if you think about it), and so are seen as hiding their true intents behind legitimate morals (... dolls of Graelyn).
So, where exactly does one sign-up for the corp that is fighting for children's dolls of Graelyn?
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Piracy is at least seen as honest: They like to fight win, and they want your money.
Fixed for you.
Sorry about the derail, however, I don't know about you, but within the last 2 years, I have yet to meet a pirate who did not flee from roughly even odds, if he saw it coming. to me it seems it's either a gank-patrol of 10+ BC and logistics or more, or a small picket that can call for back-up and get it asap the moment things get a tad ugly. Pirates are not what they used to be.
On the topic at hand however, beyond the reasons you have stated I believe this will (sadly) fail due to their horrible conduct on the igs - frankly they don't have much to stand on and their arguments are pretty shallow. One would have to take whatever issue the Jin Mei MIGHT have with the Fed and blow it out of proportions to get anything resembling a justifiable cause for Jin Mei separatism.
There might be more base for Mannar annoyance with the system, but they are not playable and thus have practically no voice.
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Look, as far as third bloodline separatists are concerned, I am pretty sure I invented the idea. Please correct me if I am wrong.
The problem is a massive lack of PF/Canon and/or some obnoxiously over-forgotten dead project PF/Canon when it comes to this stuff.
If nobody takes up the mantle and rattles sabers and talks big talk, these bloodlines will probably never be revisited by CCP and/or the volunteer fiction team or whatever.
That is literally all we can do at the moment. Sure we can submit news stories and whatnot that will be utterly ignored by ISD because they would rather not experience the pain in the ass. Sure we can go PvP like there is no tomorrow to "show some balls" and maybe get some people interested on that basis alone.
Some of us really *LIKE* the third bloodlines. Separatism adds flavor to what I and many others see as stale and boring Big4 RP in eve.
We try to kick things off, switch shit up a bit, and get shut down by the very people who would probably like to read a few chronicles about the third bloodlines and get some extra info. This does NOT make sense to me, especially from anyone who is registered on this of all sites.
It is our job to push in favor of more story, more PF, right? Or am I utterly confused? Or is that people would rather stick with what is already (boring) established because it would take attention away from them?
I really don't want this to take the form of a rant but seriously. Some of us qare sick of being ignored and summarily shot down just because CCP/ISD aren't kicking down more info. It isn't our fault. We are trying to encourage it, and should be supported by the community, rather than being told it is a lost cause.
The bad behavior on IGS? In The Summit? Elsewhere? Obviously a product of the frustration of people who are genuinely trying to push the story along, fragment it a bit for flavor, and generally getting shit on by a large group of people taking the easy route.
Am I butthurt? Hell no. I am rich as a 10 month old pile of manure. I can do whatever I want whenever I want. Am I a bit frustrated with people telling me I should politely ask the State for Achur sov? Or people telling whats her face to politely ask for Jin-Mei sov? Hell yes. Because you all KNOW it won't work. Same as saying that just because a bajillion members of our respective races aren't screaming into the news feeds for independance we must all be psychotic liars.
It is nothing more than snubbing of the new by those who want to protect what is comfortable them, and while I couldn't care less tbh, it *IS* annoying. In that itch on your back you cannot reach kind of way.
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So, update time!
Jianni is considering working on some kind of mutual project with the council, in the hopes of furthering Jin-Mei interests. The Estate has also been wardecced by the Intaki Militia and Yuri Intaki, so that may take some of my efforts away from the fun I've been having here.
This sudden explosion of rp for me, jesus christ and I was about to unsub again.
You people sure do like to keep me busy.
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Awesome. I can feel a condemnation coming on.
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So, update time!
Jianni is considering working on some kind of mutual project with the council, in the hopes of furthering Jin-Mei interests. The Estate has also been wardecced by the Intaki Militia and Yuri Intaki, so that may take some of my efforts away from the fun I've been having here.
This sudden explosion of rp for me, jesus christ and I was about to unsub again.
You people sure do like to keep me busy.
Shoot em in teh face.
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Am I a bit frustrated with people telling me I should politely ask the State for Achur sov? Or people telling whats her face to politely ask for Jin-Mei sov? Hell yes. Because you all KNOW it won't work. Same as saying that just because a bajillion members of our respective races aren't screaming into the news feeds for independance we must all be psychotic liars.
It is nothing more than snubbing of the new by those who want to protect what is comfortable them, and while I couldn't care less tbh, it *IS* annoying. In that itch on your back you cannot reach kind of way.
When I replied stating some hippy "ask politely" tactic it was based on my characters reaction to the subject at hand, it has nothing to do with trying to stop new aspects to role-play or any discomfort toward these new types. It is integrating in a already established environment which adds to the challenge.
I do wish you luck, but as annoying as it may be its how some people choose to depict and play there characters.
As for Yuri.. seems I remembered why I bought shares in her corporation after all.. =P
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I wasn't speaking to your response John. I am speaking to the overwhelming and rampant opposition to this sort of thing both in and out of character. It has been going on for ages.
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We do know that Yuri Intaki is a Damar Rocarion grief alt, right?
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What's the difference between a regular alt and a grief alt?
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What's the difference between a regular alt and a grief alt?
Regular alts only do psychological damage.
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What's the difference between a regular alt and a grief alt?
Regular alts only do psychological damage.
^^ BOOSH!
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As for Yuri.. seems I remembered why I bought shares in her corporation after all.. =P
Hm... so, John, remember how you love me?
No. I'll just let it happen - how much damage can one person do, especially since I'm busy assignmenting.
Anyone else needs a reason to beat Yuri up though, here is a good excuse. ;)
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I wasn't speaking to your response John. I am speaking to the overwhelming and rampant opposition to this sort of thing both in and out of character. It has been going on for ages.
You know what I would love to see? The Jin Mei separate. I've got no idea why a caste system is signed up with the socially super-liberal Feds anyway. I love all this shit.
But as I pointed out before: Small issue + Terrorist platform = Going to fail. I'm not against the goal the JNC has, I'm just saying that they way they're doing it is... Well it's just not going to work at all. Though perhaps if they calm down and emulate the ILF more than we'll see them gain popularity.
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OHNOES, people have opinions, and sometimes they oppose what other people are doing? The thought.
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All the JNC really needs now is a wealthy and anonymous benefactor willing to condemn them in public but provide them with enough ISK and know-how to drive a truck filled with plasma based explosives right through the gates of the Governer's palace on Lirsautton in an act of violent insurrection. Nothing says revolution more than acts of terrorism.
Win/win situation right there. You get delicious Federal insurgent caek and deny you ever ate it in the first place and your chosen benefactors get to dabble in ethnic violence, terrorism and armed insurrection in the Federation.
Also, in regards to Achur separatism: Hey wouldn't Lai Dai just love to get their hands on some deniable assets to go blow up some SuVee assets and personnel in the name of Achur independence?
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Also, in regards to Achur separatism: Hey wouldn't Lai Dai just love to get their hands on some deniable assets to go blow up some SuVee assets and personnel in the name of Achur independence?
ssshhh...
Lai Dai already got its hands slapped by the CBT for utilizing some deniable assets against SuVee.
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All the JNC really needs now is a wealthy and anonymous benefactor willing to condemn them in public but provide them with enough ISK and know-how to drive a truck filled with plasma based explosives right through the gates of the Governer's palace on Lirsautton in an act of violent insurrection. Nothing says revolution more than acts of terrorism.
Win/win situation right there. You get delicious Federal insurgent caek and deny you ever ate it in the first place and your chosen benefactors get to dabble in ethnic violence, terrorism and armed insurrection in the Federation.
Also, in regards to Achur separatism: Hey wouldn't Lai Dai just love to get their hands on some deniable assets to go blow up some SuVee assets and personnel in the name of Achur independence?
I love you.
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Hey,
yes, it’s Alba Miri ;)
Jakiin, I think you are right with some of your remarks: Very few people care for the JNC’s goal, but I believe the reason is that they don’t care for the Jin-Mei at all. I think, Boma Airaken, you hit the bull’s eye! The ask politely stuff won’t work, that’s clear and no one would find interest in a corporation that fosters traditional drink and dress habits, because there is no way to translate it into game mechanics. So what is left? Terrorism for instance. ;)
For me the question isn’t, does it work, but the question is, does it make fun? I was really surprised how much reaction this little JNC thing bred already. The debates and the ingame roleplay session really have been fun! On the other hand I was also surprised how little Jin-Mei players reacted and that there were no Caldari roleplayers seeing a good chance to assault the Federation. However, you were awesome and it was really amazing.
Unfortunately RL is calling, so in the meantime the JNC will be less active.
Best regards!
P.S.: Alba Miri is an alt, but it would be a bit boring to reveal its identity, wouldn’t it? :)
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the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter if you think about it), and so are seen as hiding their true intents behind legitimate morals (... dolls of Graelyn).
So, where exactly does one sign-up for the corp that is fighting for children's dolls of Graelyn?
the Doll War was between my corp, and a corp of Ebil Blood Nuns :o
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the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter if you think about it), and so are seen as hiding their true intents behind legitimate morals (... dolls of Graelyn).
So, where exactly does one sign-up for the corp that is fighting for children's dolls of Graelyn?
the Doll War was between my corp, and a corp of Ebil Blood Nuns :o
But I want to be e-famous too :(.
Faekedit: Not really.
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the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter if you think about it), and so are seen as hiding their true intents behind legitimate morals (... dolls of Graelyn).
So, where exactly does one sign-up for the corp that is fighting for children's dolls of Graelyn?
the Doll War was between my corp, and a corp of Ebil Blood Nuns :o
But I want to be e-famous too :(.
Faekedit: Not really.
wait, this is also a Doll War? i thought it was about something else?
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the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter if you think about it), and so are seen as hiding their true intents behind legitimate morals (... dolls of Graelyn).
So, where exactly does one sign-up for the corp that is fighting for children's dolls of Graelyn?
the Doll War was between my corp, and a corp of Ebil Blood Nuns :o
But I want to be e-famous too :(.
Faekedit: Not really.
wait, this is also a Doll War? i thought it was about something else?
Darina and I established last night that there's a couple of ways it could end. A Graelyn doll or a lot of money were two that sprang to mind.
A cat is fine too.
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PLEASE keep it up Alba, you are the only one on my team ;)
((sucks for you))
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The problem I've seen with the extremist movements in Eve RP is that they have an even tougher time recruiting than other RP corps and an exponentially harder time keeping their intensity.
A few former ILF guys went off and formed Intaki Pure, essentially Intaki eugenics fanatics. They are fun to banter with, but counting all their alts I think they've got like 5 people.
Some of the stuff they come up with is really kind of vile, so its hard to pull people in. That and the fact that they only take Intaki pilots.
My suggestion: Make the JNC a griefer corp. Set up shop in Lirsautton and conduct suicide ganks, ninja salvaging, loot theft, etc. I remember for a while when I was working for the Fed Navy in Aunia a group called Suddenly Ninjas were every-freaking-where stealing loot and salvage.
They weren't really RP, but they certainly made an impact on the area. Had they been an RP organization it would have been very easy to adapt what they were doing into any number of IGS scenarios.
Another thought: Avoid war dec-ing until you can actually launch some attacks. I understand the political sentiment, but it makes your position look weak if you don't actually engage.
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The problem I've seen with the extremist movements in Eve RP is that they have an even tougher time recruiting than other RP corps and an exponentially harder time keeping their intensity.
A few former ILF guys went off and formed Intaki Pure, essentially Intaki eugenics fanatics. They are fun to banter with, but counting all their alts I think they've got like 5 people.
As a former Du'uma Fiisi pilot... quoted for bloody truth. There's almost no way to keep up any real extremist RP as a corporation. As soon as someone realizes "Oh, but this means I can't be best buddies with people from all factions, and this might be an inconvencience RP wise.", they're gone before you can say 'what happened to principles?'.
It's honestly gone so far that Eve RP is getting less and less attractive to me, since unless you RP an apologist or supporter of the various nasty things around (Slavery, specific religions, piracy or what have you) you'll be an outcast.
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... unless you RP an apologist or supporter of the various nasty things around (Slavery, specific religions, piracy or what have you) you'll be an outcast.
From my point of view, pirates and especially slavers are the outcasts, and I don't socialise with them, but then I socialised with Du'uma Fiisi once, and never again after I met Miz.
I think EM gets away with it by being big enough that they can avoid socialising with characters who don't fit, and still have enough RP to be fun. It's why I mostly stopped going to the Last Gate for instance; partly because of the slavers, and partly because VETO got set red.
Without consequences to choices, what do they really mean?
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Without consequences to choices, what do they really mean?
Practically nothing. And this suits me fine. While it is possible to have an outlook of 'what your doing is cruel because of X, but I'd still consider you to be a [insert positive trait here]. While this won't change the fact that we are [insert negative situation, like war] I'd just like you to know I don't absolutely hate you, as a person.'
I've seen the above quite alot. I'm fine with it and think it's quite natural; most balanced individuals can separate one's person from one's actions; for instance, my former char, while a Federal, still maintained respect for a few State citizens and a couple Imperials, while disliking a few 'pro-Minmatar' for their actions and the way their char's behaved socially.
Actions should have reactions, and while having people set red or being political or ideological enemies could well and should well be a barrier of sorts, this don't have to imply that you HAVE to stop being civil or even leave your RP group due to conflicting ideologies between OOC friends. That's just... not needed. This is why people have OOC channels - to socialize as players regardless of IC stand-points. I've seen people take the OOC to levels where the IC is aborted (leaving corp for OOC reasons like 'I can't fight a friend of mine' instead of 'it's what my char would do' and other such things) or adjusted. I know one faction that alters their actions to allways remain blue to one other faction, even if that other faction is in opposition of thier IC desires and ideals, or so it seems. That makes no sense to me.
Fighting friends could be fun too - when my RL friend Ayalen took a stab at piracy some time back I hunted his ass down and poped him. Now that was quite fun, tbh.
When I left DUTY. to join MXD in FW I had to deal with being a direct enemy of Stitcher, even if I'd enjoyed flying with him and the others back in Duty. I dealt with that and went on with my desired actions from an IC stand-point.
IC actions should and do cause IC reactions. The OOC don't have to be altered in the slightest. Why go 'booh, your in X now, we are enemies and got to fight one another -.-' when you can go 'Seems we are foes now, this should be fun! See ya in space' Then just take it as it goes and chat about it later.
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I think EM gets away with it by being big enough that they can avoid socialising with characters who don't fit, and still have enough RP to be fun.
I have imagined most IC factions probably would have their own OOC RP communities, and that some communities just make more noise about their RP stuff (on forums etc) and/or interact more with other communities than others. (I have personal experience only of EM who are Republic loyalists, though.)
Such forming would seem pretty natural to me, as I expect most characters would be keener to talk with good guys than with bad ones. Who is seen as a good/okay/bad guy and why just depends on the viewpoint. :P