Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Repentence Tyrathlion on 22 Jun 2010, 05:39
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So, as my latest attempt to get my mischevious bundle of fluff Repentence to HTFU, I'm making her go nuts.
Well, it's a little more in-depth than that, obviously :P It's a thread that has (both consciously and to a degree unconsciously) been running for months. Her grasp on sanity has been a little tenuous since her dear, charming mother threw her Reppy's own skull, from a clone presumed to have died. Add on her fun encounter with a Sansha virus, and now she's well and truely deranged, and getting worse.
It's not a plot arc that is used all that often, from what I've seen (and trying to find a good therapist character is proving hell, but that's another story), so I'm interested to hear everyone else's take on it, both from an OOC and an IC perspective. Reppy's downward spiral has been mostly related to out-of-pod experiences, but given the nature of the changes in mind and body necessary to become a capsuleer, one imagines that there must be more than a few out there who a little bit cuckoo.
Which raises the further question - how does one deal with an insane capsuleer? And (possibly more worryingly) would people notice much of a difference? Given the death toll that the average capsuleer inflicts on a daily basis, it's a wonder they're not all complete sociopaths, so would madness (or at least certain types) end up just being seen as par for the course?
It's an area that interests me the more I think about it. There's a history of mental illness in my family (at least one of my ancestors died in a mental hospital), and the experience of translating it into the game has proven to be quite an experience. I'm pretty sure Morwen hates me for it, too. :P
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how does one deal with an insane capsuleer?
In the rigors of space warfare, we develop strong bonds with some of our fellow pilots. They may feel compelled to help you, and they may suffer for it. Others will shun you or try to protect others from you. Since many capsuleers are outlandish, some may not understand your illness and therefore not accept it as an excuse for your actions. They may become outright hostile.
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Between the gruelling mental challenge of piloting a ship, the enormous personal wealth and power, the authority over life and death and the experience of serial mortality, I think it would be a rare pilot indeed who didn't have issues with their mental health to some extent. Even Verin, comparatively stable as he is, fights a constant (and sometimes losing) battle with insomnia, paranoia, depression and a guilt complex.
Certainly, the mythology around capsuleers puts them somewhere between socio- and psychopathic, with pronounced megalomania. You'd probably also see lots if obsessive-compulsive disorder, addictions, nymphomania/satyriasis, maybe a series of sexual disorders (though there can't be many people who'd be willing to RP those). I suspect schizophrenic-spectrum disorders would be less common because they might interfere with the ability to pilot effectively and would be screened out in training.
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I once suggested (IC) to a director in my corp that some pod-pilots were a bit fucked up.
His words of wisdom were
"All pilots are a lot fucked up"
Words to live by.
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So, as my latest attempt to get my mischevious bundle of fluff Repentence to HTFU, I'm making her go nuts.
Well, it's a little more in-depth than that, obviously :P It's a thread that has (both consciously and to a degree unconsciously) been running for months. Her grasp on sanity has been a little tenuous since her dear, charming mother threw her Reppy's own skull, from a clone presumed to have died. Add on her fun encounter with a Sansha virus, and now she's well and truely deranged, and getting worse.
This sounds vaguely familiar :P
It's not a plot arc that is used all that often, from what I've seen (and trying to find a good therapist character is proving hell, but that's another story),
If you find one, let me know, cause Nikita is still really messed up
so I'm interested to hear everyone else's take on it, both from an OOC and an IC perspective. Reppy's downward spiral has been mostly related to out-of-pod experiences, but given the nature of the changes in mind and body necessary to become a capsuleer, one imagines that there must be more than a few out there who a little bit cuckoo.
Which raises the further question - how does one deal with an insane capsuleer? And (possibly more worryingly) would people notice much of a difference? Given the death toll that the average capsuleer inflicts on a daily basis, it's a wonder they're not all complete sociopaths, so would madness (or at least certain types) end up just being seen as par for the course?
Anyway Something I did when starting Nikita down the path to insanity is figure out exactly what kind of insanity I wanted to portray. Like, think of specifically, what sort of actions your character should be taking. I can give you more specific help once I know what kind of insanity your going for. until then, here are some tips, based on how I've been playing Nikita:
Some of the major symptoms of true insanity is this sort of disjoint in the mind of the person, instead of smoothly flowing slowly from one emotional state to the next, they abruptly jump from happy, to sad, to homicidal, sort of like derailing a train, they're going fine THEN THE NEXT THEIR SCREAMING AND PULLING A GUN OH GOD!
The next symptom of insanity is that the person isn't really aware they are going insane, at least not unless people tell them, at which point they might get really defensive.
The other thing to look for is this appearance of calm. Like they're emotionally dead in some ways, that is punctuated by the extreme emotional highs and lows, fits, breakdowns, etc etc.
Those three are the big ones, once I know what particular flavor of crazy your going for, we can fine tune it.
It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.
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You mean most capsuleers aren't already insane? Megalomania and Disassociative disorders seem to run rampant.
But I digress.
It would depend upon what sort of complex you want to give 'em. Are we talking complete looney, talking to themselves and whatnot? Or something more subtle?
Schizophrenic disorders are rather interesting, and only some of the more extreme kinds are commonly diagnosed. Milder cases involve people hearing and seeing things that aren't there, paranoia, etc. Also as an interesting sidepoint, there's been studies that have shown correlation of Schizophrenic disorders with a particular cat-born parasite called toxoplasma gondii that apparently 1/2 of the world's population is infected with.
Moving on.
There's a lot of different disorders you can go with, too. I have the DSM-IV here somewhere (my gf has a Psych degree that she doesn't use for some reason), let's just say that damn near everything is a mental disorder these days, which is mildly depressing.
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So, reading the DSM is a mental disorder too?
/me ducks
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I play one of the very few totally sane capsuleers in EVE. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Katla's mind. Several noted, well-paid psychiatrists confirm this in writing, with clockwork regularity.
It has been hinted to them what will happen if they don't.
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Anyway Something I did when starting Nikita down the path to insanity is figure out exactly what kind of insanity I wanted to portray. Like, think of specifically, what sort of actions your character should be taking. I can give you more specific help once I know what kind of insanity your going for. until then, here are some tips, based on how I've been playing Nikita:
Some of the major symptoms of true insanity is this sort of disjoint in the mind of the person, instead of smoothly flowing slowly from one emotional state to the next, they abruptly jump from happy, to sad, to homicidal, sort of like derailing a train, they're going fine THEN THE NEXT THEIR SCREAMING AND PULLING A GUN OH GOD!
The next symptom of insanity is that the person isn't really aware they are going insane, at least not unless people tell them, at which point they might get really defensive.
The other thing to look for is this appearance of calm. Like they're emotionally dead in some ways, that is punctuated by the extreme emotional highs and lows, fits, breakdowns, etc etc.
Those three are the big ones, once I know what particular flavor of crazy your going for, we can fine tune it.
It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.
Loved that chron. One of my minor characters ended up being tortured in that fashion until the torturer chickened out and let them go.
I confess that most of my inspiration at this point has been from loveable rogue Two Face, notably his portrayal in his debut episode of Batman the Animated Series. For those not familiar with that fine piece of culture, Harvey Dent has split personality issues prior to becoming Two Face (unlike in most portrayals), and there are several interesting scenes regarding the conflict between the Harvey personality and what would become the Two Face personality. The definitive boundary between the two was kind of lost after that first episode.
So yes, split personality is the core of her problems. There's also random bursts of amnesia and a few mood swings, from what I've been doing so far.
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Incidentially, in RL dissociative identity disorder (which is controversial), IIRC one of its defining characteristics is that there are always three of more separate personalities. Its one of the ways they catch criminals trying to fake their way through split personality disorder as an excuse for crimes (i.e. my bad side made me do it!).
Then again, who knows what implants would do to someone, and you might what to base your RP more on popular culture than real life clinical diagnosis, either of which is equally valid in my eyes.
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<delete post>
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Incidentially, in RL dissociative identity disorder (which is controversial), IIRC one of its defining characteristics is that there are always three of more separate personalities. Its one of the ways they catch criminals trying to fake their way through split personality disorder as an excuse for crimes (i.e. my bad side made me do it!).
Then again, who knows what implants would do to someone, and you might what to base your RP more on popular culture than real life clinical diagnosis, either of which is equally valid in my eyes.
...well there's a coincidence... only one has shown so far, but there will four personalities in total when I'm done...
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So, reading the DSM is a mental disorder too?
/me ducks
tbh, I would say so. Talk about dry reading. :P
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Something important, which has been touched on above, is what type of mental disorder you are looking at, because there are lots different mental orders each requiring a total different approach and presenting a different challenge. There isn't really a generic "insanity".
If I remember correctly the White-Wolf pen and paper roleplaying game, Vampire: The Masquerade, had a very good list of mental disorders, each requiring a totally different roleplaying approach. It was one of the flaws for a particular vampire bloodline. My collection of pen and paper RPG books seems to have been buried somewhere in the recent move, but I will see if I can find them, because a list like that would be a good starting point.
Otherwise, you could always do some research into the different mental illnesses out there.
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You're talking about the Malkavians.
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...which, interestingly enough, will likely be something playable in CCP's other project of an MMO. ;)
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If CCP's WoD is based on the new WoD, Malkavians will be gone as a clan. IIRC, they still exist as a "family" within the Ventrue clan, but that's all.
Just as well in the case of the Malks, really. They had an ugly tendency to be taken too far in ridiculous directions, ending up as super-powered serial-killer clowns.
...which is a lot like many capsuleers behave, but let's not dwell on that. :P
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The last Malkie I played was Schizophrenic. Hardly a clown, really interesting character.
I wouldn't mess with him though.
Otherwise what you're saying is pretty spot on, people went off the deep end with Malks, and it was sad to see, because they were a really solid concept.
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Oh, I've played Malks myself, too, and had good fun with them.
My favorite one was a psychiatrist lady whose derangement was simply a total, blank disbelief in the supernatural, including her own vampiric nature. She'd rationalize away even blatant evidence put right before her eyes, believing that she had suffered some sort of trauma which messed with her brain in some shape, way or form. She was a fascinating character to play, for the three whole sessions that game lasted.
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Holy thread derail, Batman!
Yes. The CCP MMO is based on New World of Darkness, so no Camarilla pumpkins for you sweetsykins and no Tzimisce for me. Malkavian's a re present a a bloodline in V:tR detailed i nthe Ventrue clanbook, will thye use bloodlines in the MMO? No idea.
Now back on topic;
If you wanna put the crazy in the Reppy, feel free to poke me on msn. Crazy is something I have firsthand experience in, perhaps I could offer you some insight to it all.
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Which raises the further question - how does one deal with an insane capsuleer? And (possibly more worryingly) would people notice much of a difference? Given the death toll that the average capsuleer inflicts on a daily basis, it's a wonder they're not all complete sociopaths, so would madness (or at least certain types) end up just being seen as par for the course?
I'd agree mental problems are likely to be rather common among capsuleers. ;)
To change the angle somewhat from other replies to some brainstorming questions, if you are conciously contemplating madness, what would you like the plot twist give to your character's story? Are there consequences or directions of the story you would not like?
Who would you like to notice a difference? The characters who already know your character and who she regularly interacts with? Acquaintances? Total strangers?
What kind of reactions would you like the to get from other charcters with the madness? Fustration? Discomfort? Pity?
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Thanks for the responses, folks.
I should possibly point out that I do have more laid out than I explained in my initial post, I just didn't feel like going into too much detail. I was more bringing up a general debating point than specifically asking for help; but this is all much appreciated and being processed.
I'm really toying with two main aspects, one of which is a central plot point, the other just an incidental demonstration of the fact that she's losing it; split personality being the first. I've chatted with several people a fair amount recently about the former, so I think I've got a pretty good basis - apparently what I've come up with is a little odd, but does actually exist.
The second is a case of violent and unpredictable mood swings. Any ponderings? It's a fairly simple theme on the face of it, but be interesting to hear any contributions...
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Cia's gone pretty crazy a couple of times ... um, or three. Maybe four.
Each time it's been in response to a stressful event and I've talked to a colleague with a psychology degree about what sort of disorder might emerge from such an event, given Cia's upbringing and personality type, and then tried to portray that.
The second time was a little more complex because I had her implants malfunctioning as well, complicating matters. But it started as a stress disorder.
As for finding a decent therapist character ... I rolled an alt.
Then Celes murdered him and I had to roll another, but that's a long story.
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Personally, I am more appreciative of the subtle crazy than the outright lunatics. Outright lunatics and people going way out there are easy to play and also not overly realistic, given how insanity tends to show itself in most cases, obviously some are just straight up loopy.
Just as an aside.
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Personally, I am more appreciative of the subtle crazy than the outright lunatics. Outright lunatics and people going way out there are easy to play and also not overly realistic, given how insanity tends to show itself in most cases, obviously some are just straight up loopy.
Just as an aside.
Oh, certainly. That's why I'm happily taking thoughts and suggestions on board, to try and get a feel for the subtle bits.
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Like a lot of RP, I think it is done best when you stay subtle with it. It's easy to be too eager, but the impact is greater when just how fucked up your character is comes out slowly, over time.
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Like a lot of RP, I think it is done best when you stay subtle with it. It's easy to be too eager, but the impact is greater when just how fucked up your character is comes out slowly, over time.
This is something I am delving into slowly with Math'ra
As he progresses the trauma and details from his past lives resurge and cause problems that he himself can't explain in detail, and tries to hide from the people around him.
It shall be interesting when he finally snaps infront of someone /o\
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Ohboyohboy. Insanities. :D
On that secondary symptom of mood swings. You could make the cause of that to be physical. Several illnesses mess with brain and/or hormone levels, causing variable symptoms. Some are relatively easy to handle once diagnosed.
Doctors will first look for a physical reason and should they find one they may very well lump all symptoms on it. And placebo effect could even curb outward symptoms of primary for a while, until you relapse.
a Physical illness that wont cure itself if you get podded? Blame DNA. Though if you just have a genetic tendency to it (Some cancers for instance). You might still relapse every now and then with the mood swings too.
PS. Malkavians were fun to play. Once did the whole fluffybunnyMalk thing, though acting all fluffy bunny was the sane thing (Not a threat) while working on getting where he deserved to be (Megalomania) :twisted:
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The strangest reactions I get from quite how disturbed Meb is, is how tolerant people are of her. :s
She's that obvious a schitzo that nobody notices anymore and just takes both sides of Meb as Meb 1 and 2.
Then there's the blood...
...the corpses she turns into dolls to substitute a childhood gone missing...
...the rampant killing of any one for any reason...
...the fondness for sometimes helping the weak and defending against injustice...
I find I often lose track and would probably do better just rolling dice to decide her mindset every few hours.
Some people treat her as just a little girl who does bad things and others as teh evilestest ocultist slaver in the 'verse. I think it comes down with how much other characters believe or know about what she does. With what I play her as, I'd try to put as much of the universe as possible between me and her, were she real. I just ran with the idea of abject crazy as I played her over the years. She started off quite a good girl once upon a time.
But enough of Meb...
I find there's so much more in depth, deep (in depth deep lol :bash:) psychosis out there that should be explored. Things like depression, mania, paranoia, obsessions, dystrophia... hell the list goes on. I'm suprised more pod-pilots aren't as fucked up. The blatant abuse of human lives seems to just happen around them. Even without blowing up ships and subsequent crews (Yes ships have crews), you're constantly putting lives at risk unless you spent your entire pilot life in a tiny frigate or interceptor.
Then there's the paranoia, the power at their control... the constant dying/rebirth???
I must admit, it's easier, although still very hard, to get in the mindset of a crazy character when you have experience... :twisted:
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"Insanity: a perfectly rational adjustment to the insane world."
-R. D. Laing
I think that sums up my opinion on the matter. Unless you're looking for a particular 'disorder' to act out (OCD, schizophrenia, multiple personalities, meglomania), I think it might be prudent to consider who you want to be considered insane by.
To humanity, running out and getting killed for no other reason than the thrill of combat would seem rather...unbalanced, but to fellow capsuleers it might be understood or even appreciated.
What is NORMAL? Only in having established a standard can you classify something out of place.