Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Kopenhagen on 06 Feb 2014, 15:58
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Not sure if this has been covered before. Just had this idea while I was doing some corporate writing.
The Crows is very much an RP corp, with a decent balance between channel RP and actual flying. As has been said many times, nothing says you are a fearsome combat pilot that actually being a fearsome combat pilot.
Anyway, I started thinking how Jude would define non-rpers. Sure, we all pretend to be pilots, so can all be said to RP. Then I realised, through pilot dementia, or simply having been a ship for so long, they might actually not be able to function in any other way.
That means that there are whole colonies of "Lost" ones out there.
This is not really covered by PF, and is actually not all that amazing since Jude pretty much chats to everyone.
Just some late night mental ramblings.
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Yeah, people usually roll with "they've gone insane". The largest problem with that ICly are the RPers that are members of those alliances. So, what? You just went and voluntarily joined a group of mentally insane people? It's the biggest immersion-breaking thing for the game, obviously.
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Yeah, people usually roll with "they've gone insane". The largest problem with that ICly are the RPers that are members of those alliances. So, what? You just went and voluntarily joined a group of mentally insane people?
They are insane in the frighteningly competent sociopathic way which any intelligent capsuleer would do all they can to profit from, instead of tying themselves to the old hidebound empires. And if the insanity "spreads", well then maybe that's just the next step of capsuleer evolution. After all, we aren't human anymore, why try to stick to what humans consider sane?
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Most of the time it's not a real problem?
I mean, talking smack is 99% of interaction in public settings, and people don't have to be insane just because they don't act like a grand admiral. They're freelancers after all. And oog talks can essentially be ignored.
I think voiding any credibility of non rpers in the game is not a healthy way to try and approach the issues.
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I think painting vast swathes of the demographic as 'lesser than us' is not only unfair, but counter productive. Their public presence may be obnoxious, but i am more than willing to assume that these capsuleers are clannish, have little time for their non-alliance peers and act accordingly. Yes they are immature and childish, but the very success of such groups is an indicator to their efficacy in game, and thus, to my mind, in character.
I am a fairly big proponent of Pf > in game activities > everything else with regards to how relevant it is to the fabric of my rp. To write off these capsuleers as insane doesn't do the evident success they revel in any justice - not that I am suggesting we kowtow to that :).
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Aye, I do not discount anyone. I will happily interact with RPers and non RPers. It all fits into my view of the game and world.
My thought were more along the lines of having this little secret, among the capsuleers. They might not be more insane than any of us, they are just further down the path of what might be considered human. Less than us for that? Evidence would suggest otherwise.
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Interesting.
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I've felt most of those considered "insane non-roleplayers" as in fact being far better at roleplaying the natural consequence, impacts, and motivations of actually being a capsuleer in New Eden than those that call themselves roleplayers. They're so good at roleplaying a capsuleer, that I don't think they even notice it themselves.
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Heh, that's probably true. But if roleplaying a capsuleer implies that, it's rather rubbish.
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Gaven mostly refers to the null types as the Barbarian Satrapies.
Rather than considering them insane, he considers them uncivilized, and assumes that there is some inherant curse in capsule technology that produces so many capsuleers that go wild.
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[...] there is some inherant curse in capsule technology that produces so many capsuleers that go wild.
I'm not sure why, but this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfTfXLLJlzM) was the first thing that came to mind.
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Heh, that's probably true. But if roleplaying a capsuleer implies that, it's rather rubbish.
I suppose you can refer me to the sterling track record humanity has for not pursuing motivations like wealth, power, greed, or violence towards each other?
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My favorite depressing human constant is militarism for its own sake.
Gaven is in part a study of that one :)
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My favorite depressing human constant is militarism for its own sake.
Gaven is in part a study of that one :)
I think all the factions are an introspection in some of the best and worst humanity can offer, but the capsuleer is an introspection in human behaviour when it's divorced of any real consequence (even death).
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I think the antics that RPer characters involve themselves in argue that we're the insane ones. We're the one's constantly fretting about loyalties, npc standings, who's dating who, and showing off how crazy/edgy/intoxicated (or humble in Amarrian cases) we are on public channels.
The rest of the capsuleers (greater than 99.9%) shut up and get to work doing capsuleer stuff.
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Heh, that's probably true. But if roleplaying a capsuleer implies that, it's rather rubbish.
I suppose you can refer me to the sterling track record humanity has for not pursuing motivations like wealth, power, greed, or violence towards each other?
Oh but I was not referring to that.
More the way they act, talk, speak, smack... I hear and read immature players, not characters.
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Heh, that's probably true. But if roleplaying a capsuleer implies that, it's rather rubbish.
I suppose you can refer me to the sterling track record humanity has for not pursuing motivations like wealth, power, greed, or violence towards each other?
Oh but I was not referring to that.
More the way they act, talk, speak, smack... I hear and read immature players, not characters.
I guess you can just turn local blink off and never tab into it. Or petition CCP for a "block all" function.
I find it pretty easy to either ignore stuff like that myself, and accept that there's probably very little between Roman graffiti saying, "Nero likes to touch the buttocks of men" and a capsuleer saying, "lel you're so ghey". Politeness is a social convention and it's not like a capsuleer has to be polite.
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Welp, I don't think people acting immature, especially on emotional highs (or butthurt downs!) is something that is odd, because I'm pretty sure there's a lot of smacktalk involved when shit hits the fan even in our times. Imagine local smack in early 20th century trench warfare! ( additional historical source: clicky! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY) )
Treat people like they are. Some people in local are even able to communicate in a mature and decent manner, you'd be surprised.
As far as a hypothetical "Spaceship captains are probably disciplined enough to not draw dicks on each others faces at the first opportunity"-argument goes I'd agree, but also would like to point out that people tend to act pretty derpy with their characters sometimes, and score equally low on the intelligence/discipline chart. Also most of the necessary decorum is usually forced upon someone by a rank structure and organisation - and as freelance capsuleers any obligation not outlined by CONCORD stuffs is entirely deliberate. Also we're all playing basically special unique snowflakes. ;)
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Not, I wouldn't be really surprised as some nice capsuleer contacts I got were done purely out of a hazardous meeting with people in local. "Oh you too fight against pirates here ?" "Do you want to be part of our local intel channel ? We are a small group of industrial peeps trying to live in that high sec pocket in nullsec..."
As much as I can expect one or two dicks in every setting, or even a bit more considering they are all supposed to be afflicted by dementia, seeing that level everywhere is just plain immersion breaking to me. But that's not the most important. Block them, block them not, the true immersion killer are the simple names of their alliances, corps, or worse at times. The main issue is when comparing those with what we have in the lore, it is just rubbish as hell. Ridiculous. And if that is what capsuleers are supposed to be, looking like pre pubescent children insulting each other in the schoolyard and fighting like apes, well, that's not really engaging.
At least, it is true that the sheer level of organization and operational planning we see besides, either in null or not, tends to do a bit of damage control.
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Sometimes when I watch my elected representatives in parliament I at times wonder if they really are pubescent children in the schoolyard insulting each other and fighting like apes.
As for the whole "capsuleer dementia" thing what exactly is being forgotten there?
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Those parliament members don't spend their time doing that, and also don't spend their time walking in the street doing that.
I wil always find more genuine a portrayal of a politician done by someone like Alain Octirant / Hand Nardieu / Thiesant / whoever else than your average retarded joe capsuleer.
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As much as I can expect one or two dicks ...
Reading this thread at 6am. This is all I noticed. +1 to you Lyn, even though that isn't what you were talking about.
Dicks are awesome!!! wooo
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Now I don't expect them anymore >.>
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Those parliament members don't spend their time doing that, and also don't spend their time walking in the street doing that.
I wil always find more genuine a portrayal of a politician done by someone like Alain Octirant / Hand Nardieu / Thiesant / whoever else than your average retarded joe capsuleer.
The point is, there are some things in life as in Eve you just learn to shrug off.
I mean seriously, if you're complaining about loss of immersion because not 100% of people playing an MMO aren't roleplayers is like trying to push water up a hill. You either develop coping mechanisms or don't and if you don't then how is that the problem of other people?
That, and well, Eve isn't real.
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On the other hand, dicks are real.
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That, and well, Eve isn't real.
Zomg this shit is so real, like wow real. :cowbell:
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Frankly, EVE has far less issues of OOCers breaking immersion than basically any other MMO out there, since at least in EVE OOCers can be rationalized ICly. And the way chat channels work limits their ability to grief you in RP (aside from by nonconsensual ship violence, but that's IC).
If you want immersion breaking, then try to RP in WoW or another avatar game while a bunch of OOCers are dancing naked on top of your character model, while spamming about how lame you are. EVE is nothing in comparison to that.
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Agreed. The fact that random PvP violence is IC helps a great deal.
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contemporary/Sci-Fi is generally a bit easier on immersion, as not every fantasy setting allows something simple as a chat system, or in in-game terms: Instant long-range communication. Additionally we're more at home with contemporary language and that dude posting ascii dicks in local is far less an anomaly than someone shouting ascii dicks while sieging your lord's castle.
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Additionally we're more at home with contemporary language and that dude posting ascii dicks in local is far less an anomaly than someone shouting ascii dicks while sieging your lord's castle.
Ah ? It doesn't disturb you ? Personally I don't see much difference.
But yes, at least, it can be rationalized because it's Eve.
Frankly, EVE has far less issues of OOCers breaking immersion than basically any other MMO out there, since at least in EVE OOCers can be rationalized ICly. And the way chat channels work limits their ability to grief you in RP (aside from by nonconsensual ship violence, but that's IC).
If you want immersion breaking, then try to RP in WoW or another avatar game while a bunch of OOCers are dancing naked on top of your character model, while spamming about how lame you are. EVE is nothing in comparison to that.
That.
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Difference might be that for whatever reason, someone could be posting said ascii art over a communications channel, whereas someone shouting machine language in middle-earth would be a bit out of whack.