Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Makkal on 25 Jun 2013, 16:00
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I know there's a topic about this already but can't be bothered to go searching for it.
How does your character address others when they interact with them? The Amarr bloc tends to be the most formal, so they're more like to address someone as 'Ms.' 'Mr.' '[Title]' and then last name.
I noticed that Steffanie refers to women as 'Lady [Surname],' but in Gallente fashion, she applies it indiscriminately. The character isn't acknowledging social status, but using the trappings of nobility because she finds them neat.
I recall the night Veik referred to the Minmatar as 'tribals' and her rather smooth handling of the outrage that followed, asking if they were ashamed of their tribal heritage because otherwise why would the term bother them? Contrast this with Kim's insta-ban use of it.
It took me a while to pick up on Silas' use of 'child' vs 'brother/sister.'
There are also political appellations: Federalist, Imperial, Suramites, Sakurites. And the ubiquitous '-haan' and 'haani.'
So, how does your character address others? Why do they pick the titles and terms they use? Do you have a specific methodology at work?
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Most people get addressed as 'Captain'. If Nico has special respect for the person at hand or the corporation the person is part of, she uses corp titles if available. She tends to not call capsuleers 'Lord' or 'Lady', unless she has high respect for them and thinks they have proven to be worthy to be considered as nobles - or the noble in question presses the matter.
If Nico looses respect for someone, she usually refers to them as 'Mr.' or 'Ms.', but she uses this too for DUSTies without meaning any disrespect - and she doesn't mean disrepect by using it in regard to capsuleers either, because in general she prefers to not indicate respect to indicating disrespect.
People she knows well and has a personal relationship to she might address by first name, but she can drop back to more formal appellations easily if in public.
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Morwen generally tries to be friendly and polite when she interacts with people. (Obviously this isn't always how it ends up, but she makes an effort at it, honest!) As a result, here's how she does it:
- If someone does not introduce themselves otherwise or have an outwardly obvious preference, she will opt for a first name if she can find it.
- If she can't find a first name, she'll go with the most appropriate title she can find (this sometimes ends up being "Miss" or "Mister", but may vary based on the person's origin/affiliations) and surname. For example, Amarrians who she can find out are Holders or similar, she will often opt for Lord/Lady <surname> first.
- If someone is already being actively addressed in a particular manner and appears to approve of it or at least be comfortable with it, she will start with that right off the bat.
- If someone asks her to use a particular form of address, she will always attempt to remember to use that instead.
As for people addressing her, she's similar there.
- She generally prefers people use her first name, and will typically introduce herself by her first name only, except when it's business.
- She'll accept people using her surname if a title is attached to it. Whether it's Miss, Mlle., Director, Captain, Pilot, Saategashira (her old Veto rank), or something else appropriate she doesn't care, as long as one is used. She gets intensely annoyed by people using her last name without a title, because she associates it with people who (in her mind) did not treat her very well or very kindly.
The old thread's linked in my quoteblock if you're curious. I can merge posts if you like.
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Samira adheres exclusively to formal Amarr styles, to the point that she actually finds it very difficult to refer to people in familiar terms even when they tell her to.
Samira will never refer to someone by first name, unless A) it's the only name they've presented, or B ) they've explicitly asked her to. Even then, she often applies styles to the name, unless requested not to.
She also won't attach styles that are higher than the person's actual status. She will never refer to someone as a Lord or Lady unless she knows they are actually a Lord or Lady. Makkal is an exception, because she used her higher status to pressure Samira into calling her Lady. Samira only begrudgingly obeys, since by all accounts Makkal isn't a titled Holder in her own right and therefore it simply isn't proper by Samira's eyes.
As for the methodology she uses, it's more or less what is seen in PF. I've documented it all here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3036104#post3036104), with sources. The one exception from PF I did was using "Her Imperial Majesty" instead of "Her Majesty", in order to distinguish the emperor from heir-level individuals like King Khanid, but that's since become PF as of the PIE ball, when Admiral Ren Karetta used it (thanks CCP!).
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My character is extremely informal and generally just calls people what she wants. She also tends to have trouble with multiple names. She grew up in a very informal setting where people just had first names so she'll oftentimes say someone's full name, first and last, not realizing what parts are meant to be spoken and which aren't. She does the intentionally other times, though OOCly I'm not sure why I have her, it just seems like an interesting character quirk. She won't acknowledge anyone's formal title unless she has an extreme amount of personal respect for them.
Also as a semi on topic note, Saede prefers gender neutral pronouns, if anyone actually asks her. I use female pronouns OOCly so as not to confuse anyone/myself.
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The basis of my methodology is to use specific forms of address to signal that I'm role-playing. OOC conversations tend to be very informal, even with strangers. Usually there are no spoken greetings, and often even no names are used, but just forms of 'hey you n00b'. I've noticed that being formal in forms of address often immediately sets a specific tone to the conversation.
Additionally, it helps to get non-RPers to 'tag along' with your play if you address them with proper deference as Lord X. Makes them feel empowered and less likely to play along with you.
Merdaneth uses a whole range of forms of address, often specifically meant to put the person addressed into a certain place. I'm fond of using 'traitor', 'terrorist' or 'heretic' as a title with enemies while remaining otherwise polite. It gives a definitely signal about your relationship with the person to everyone that's hearing it.
Sister, Brother for fellow Amarr that I like. Crusader, pilot or soldier for milita members, Lord and Lady for people with high station, but I also often look up a person's corp title, and use that one for extra effect. Admiral, Cardinal, Overseer, etc. etc.
I find it a very simple, easy to use but powerful RP tool.
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Shin's a bit odd in this regard. She used to be highly informal when talking to people - it took her a very long time when she first left home to get used to the idea that some people prefer strangers not call them by their first name. Zaitsev subjected her to extremely formal training in Caldari etiquette during her tenure at Omerta Syndicate, which sparked an interest in forms of etiquette among different cultures. At the end of the day, she'll usually address the people she likes or respects in a manner they would appreciate, though she's still extremely informal with friends. People she doesn't respect? She'll typically address them very formally, though the forms of address are usually intended as insults.
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Ze'ev, viewing most titles claimed by capsuleers as vain and pointless, uses Captain most of the time, especially in construction with the last name. He occasionally also uses pilot, or if he's drunk and/or feeling disrespectful, 'egger'. He is not averse to using other terms to address the few people he respects, particularly Brother/Sister or Doctor for those who've earned said titles. (This comes up more often in private than public comms.) Also, the boss gets called 'boss.'
Still not sure what to do with DUSTers.
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Almost never, ever first names.
Brother / Sister for True Amarr only
Mr. / Ms. for most other races
For Matari, usually the racial name + last name, "Thank you for making my point, Sebiestor So-and-so"
For other non-amarr on more familiar terms sometimes just the last name without the Mr. or Ms.
Many other capsuleers there are pet names for, for example Seriphym Inhonores is almost always refered to as the "Dear General Inhonores" or "Illustrious General Inhonores". These are mostly mocking pet names, but not always :)
"Child" often for younger or inexperienced capsuleers, or as a term of derision
"Heathen" as a term for non-amarr, can be said very cheerfully as it doesn't generally have malice assocaited with it.
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Catillah, by default, calls all pod pilots "captain whatever". It's an old habit from his time in the Imperial Navy, before becoming a pod pilot, when a ship captain had to coordinate a whole ship and not only think. Dusters are "soldiers" by default.
But there are lots of exceptions. With military amarrian or loyalist pilots, he'll adress them by rank (Admiral, Liuteneant, whatever) but very rarely will he do so for military pilots of other factions. Those he treats as captain like civilians, though if he wants to offend them or show his distance he may (very rarely) use other terms.
When speaking of the whole community, which he often may do with disrespect because he doesn't like pod pilots in general, he may use "eggers".
Others he may adress, exceptionally, in other ways. A few may deserve Lord or Lady. A few (if he wants to insult them) may deserve nothing. Or specific titles like blooder or sansha drone or things like that. But those are very very rare, I think he's only been decenty angry once, and only then did he use one. And he was yet far from being really angry.
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Depending on Havo's annoyance/anger/disgust factor, he'll either use "pilot" or he'll call a person as he sees them (race traitor, usurper, slaver, wastrel, etc.).
Fortunately he doesn't care about making enemies.
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Laria refers to people she doesn't know as M. and either Mme. or Ms. depending on how Gallente she's feeling. People she does know, she tends to call by their first name. Any variation on this is likely to be for a reason, though that reason might be "being annoying".
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Corp titles for most people, if she can find them. She will always try to be the most formal and polite since she considers that the most formal you are, the most respect you show (which can be argued as a childish fallacy, but that's what she believes at an unconscious level).
Actually she will always start to bow to almost everyone silently, since silent is the epitome of politeness for her. Then, titles if talking is required.
As for her, it disturbs her enormously to be called by almost everyone by her first name, but she doesn't mind/care. She finds the subject fascinating.
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I follow these simple rules:
'Last name'-haan(i) for Caldari
Lord/Lady 'last name' for Amarr
Mr./Ms. 'last name' for anyone else
'rank' 'last name' - sometimes for persons with acknowledged military ranks (rarely)
'last name' can be replaced with callsign, if last name is unknown (or the person hasn't introduced yet)
-guri,-hnolku etc for mocking purposes
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Art refers to people as
'Pilot' if he doesn't know or doesn't like them.
'Captain' if he kind of respects them
And probably their first name on a very rare occasion. I think the only real person he does this for regularly is Avlynka Surionen in channels and some people he talks to in person.
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Kala will use first names for more or less everyone.
Especially if it annoys them.
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Names. Istvaan has so many names. So many, without a mnemonic implant, he'd forget most of them. Without a social implant, he'd forget who's who, or sometimes, even who he is. Thank goodness for technology.
Now, naturally, you're all assuming this refers to some upcoming heist, or hijacked clone. Not working on any such thing, so you can relax your sphincters. No, old Istvaan's always been into diversifying. Across fifty-odd inhabited worlds, some in the four empires, a few in nullsec, and a few I won't specify, exist small but effective criminal organizations.
Some are racketeering gangs and extortionists, some are networks of drug peddlers, some are gun-runners and tech brokers, others sell and extract information, and the rest are assorted scum largely unconcerned by law. Yet all these groups share a few unique traits as organizations: all are headed by an underboss, and all receive their orders from a boss no-one sees.
Some rumors circulated by those close to the gangs, say this unseen 'boss' is just a screen on a wall, issuing orders from off-world. Fewer rumors still, issued by those with access to interplanetary law enforcement records, might suggest that each image on the screen of each individual gang is different, and speaks with a different voice, suggesting either that many disparate crime bosses across New Eden prefer to detach themselves from their organizations and communicate with them only remotely, or the far less likely possibility that all these disparate organizations are being controlled by a single overseeing organization yet to reveal itself in any grand fashion.
Those with high level CONCORD security clearance might be privy to an even rarer rumor: the confirmation that all these disparate fingers connect to a single guiding hand, and that this guiding hand belongs to an individual who exists entirely beyond the feasible reach of law. Those foolish enough to spread the rumor, even in loose terms, know that this individual in fact poses such a singular threat, that if he detected the first hints of movement against his organization by any other, could implement such a terrifying response as to bring ruin to everyone from the SARO goons sent to enforce the order, to the very individual who signed it. Chances are, he'd hear the pen scratching against the smart-paper, and struck before the LCD finished displaying the signature.
Present orders at the highest echelons of CONCORD are simple: maintain surveillance, take plenty of notes, but for all the gods' sake, don't upset the people who can end CONCORD, and don't allow the general public of the CONCORD-trusting worlds to realize there's a group with the power to ignore their authority, traipsing about the galaxy completely uncontested. You will not hear rumors at this level, because everyone is far too well-trained to spread or abide them.
You will only hear a resigned acceptance of an irresolvable problem: the presence of an organization with no known limits or ends, which works through innumerable proxies, legal and illegal, with ability to kill or neutralize any other organization in existence with whimsical ease and minimal effort, and an agenda no-one can figure out. Amassing wealth is no longer a priority for this organization, for their wealth is effectively unlimited, and no longer applicable to existing economics - where an economic system would exist, this organization will simply have infinite money as a given. This organization is so audacious that it operates in the open, occasionally even calling attention to itself with brazen crimes, but CONCORD's highest echelons know all too well that to attempt apprehending any members of the Guiding Hand Social Club is to court disaster. For even the grandest of their public crimes, those that enrapture the galaxy and spawn holo-novels, pale in comparison to what they could do.
Because at the very highest of highest of levels, the levels where you're briefed on correct hand-washing procedures before shaking hands with a Jovian, they know the connection between the Guiding Hand Social Club, and Endless Corporation - a short lived Caldari megacorporation that rose to prominence and fizzled over a decade ago. They also know that like Endless Corporation, the Guiding Hand Social Club is, in itself, a front. They also know that the Endless Corporation was tearing holes in the fabric of space a decade before the events of Seyllin, holes that led to all-the-gods-know-where, and that they pulled something out, and that all this was under the direction of one man.
One man who has an unknown number of illicit clones scattered across the galaxy, clearly having taken inspiration from the method Sansha Kuvakei used to survive the first ruin of his Nation. One man who has the power to assassinate the heads of any of the four Empires, or seize power in a nation, yet has not chosen to, because such tiny matters no longer concern him. One man who is under constant CONCORD surveillance, and does little to conceal himself, almost daring authorities to take him with overt petty crimes like ill-concealed drug abuse, and whose constantly updated, meticulously studied, endlessly debated psychological profiles indicate a laundry list of mental ailments.
Because at those very highest of highest levels, there is a grand concern. Even the Jovians themselves are looking into it. The question most heavily pressing on the minds of a select, secret enclave of Jovian entheopsychologists, Caldari neuropsychologists, SOCT representatives, top-level-security-cleared Intaki Idama and one extremely, extremely old Minmatar is... is this how it happens?
All those names Istvaan answers to have given him the power of a god. Information, it turned out, was the key to apotheosis. Not only because the criminal gangs he controls give him ears everywhere, even by association to looser-lipped members of CONCORD, but because simultaneously hearing everything allowed him a top-down perspective, a god's eye view. Yet given the power of a god, command over space and time, omniscience and prophecy, and dominion over all men, what did he do with it? It doesn't take CONCORD clearance, or a surveillance agent in the back corner of a seedy nightclub to find out. Just be careful that Shogaatsu doesn't throw up on you during his seemingly unending narcotic binges - the extinction burst, the last desperate grasp for pleasure and sensation before the concept is abandoned forever, and the patient settles into the final stages of what they, these select few, all recognize to be the Jovian disease.
Is this how it happens, they ask? This is the man who saw Doriam die before he died, and saw that Jamyl did not die at all. This is the man who knows what is next. Has knowing sent him into this depression? Is what he knows terrifying enough that we'd do as many drugs as he did, if we knew? What horror dwells in the future that Istvaan Shogaatsu sees? Why does the man who poked holes in dimensions a decade ago... want to do his very best to avoid thinking, at all costs, today?
There is one more rumor about names I'd like to share with you. This rumor has never been heard by the humans of New Eden, whispered only among beings who can scarcely call themselves such, as they cling to the last genetic vestiges of their heritage. These beings, our shepherds across the millenia, our fathers, our cultivators, whisper of a name extracted from a brain scan conducted by a quantum-state determination engine (the technology doesn't exist yet in the four empires). This engine, one of the technological marvels of this vastly advanced yet faltering empire, was turned upon Istvaan Shogaatsu in the midst of one of his crash-induced seizures.
It was the name of a being unlike any other.
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+1
Great prose :P
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Ché defaults to Mister or Miss. He will sometimes use other titles if he knows or thinks they are appropriate.
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Almost never, ever first names.
Brother / Sister for True Amarr only
Mr. / Ms. for most other races
For Matari, usually the racial name + last name, "Thank you for making my point, Sebiestor So-and-so"
For other non-amarr on more familiar terms sometimes just the last name without the Mr. or Ms.
Many other capsuleers there are pet names for, for example Seriphym Inhonores is almost always refered to as the "Dear General Inhonores" or "Illustrious General Inhonores". These are mostly mocking pet names, but not always :)
"Child" often for younger or inexperienced capsuleers, or as a term of derision
"Heathen" as a term for non-amarr, can be said very cheerfully as it doesn't generally have malice assocaited with it.
Never called Ava "Sebbie Starfire"!
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Istvaan....that is all very epic. I am incredibly curious as to what secrets lay in the shadows of the EVE universe. What do you know? What are you hiding? :eek:
Getting back on topic: Streya typically refers to others by their full name (or callsign, if they go by a pseudonym) when first speaking with them. Thereafter she either goes with first-name only if she's on a first-name basis with the other character, or uses "Pilot :Last-name:" otherwise. For characters using pseudonyms she just comes up with something catchy and easy to remember (for example, a corp-mate she calls "Inno"). She also respects titles that reflect professional, political, or religious office when appropriate.
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Andreus used to use Mr/Ms, but recently, since I fleshed out his backstory a bit more and worked out how Gallenticised he is in his general manner, I try to make him use Mssr/Mdme.
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There's a weird chart I use with Pieter. A graph of Formality over Regard which forms a bellcurve such that he's formal with people he's cold to neutral with and informal with people he either despises or likes.
For example, Aracturus and Pieter had a minor argument over Pieter dropping the -haan from Aracturus' name when Aracturus used -haan with Pieter. In that case, at least, decreased formality was not a sign of affection. In fact it was meant to remind Aracturus that he'd screwed up recently. On the other hand, it's been quite some time since Desiderya was known as Kyiokinnen-haani at home.
Caldari RP actually provides lots of shades of formality and closeness through the use of suffixes such as -haan/haani, -suuolo and -kirjuun. Other suffixes are more specialised in nature. -Guri and -hnolku, for example, are perjorative and attaching them certainly doesn't signify extra respect.
It's rare that the -jaijii suffix is used by Pieter, even though a lot of people he talks to are foreigners. Generally he uses -jaijii on foreigners who he thinks are trespassing on Caldari business they ought to know well enough to stay out of.
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Silver uses Mr/Ms almost exclusively. There are only a small handful of exceptions.
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I never really thought about it, to the point that people got named what they got named. I tend to use full names with no honorific attached. Then they either get one as I get to know them(Captain Hanaya and Mister Stitcher ...it strikes me ooc as an amusing quirky thing to attach an honorific to a callsign)… or they do not, and either stay on a full name basis or move to a first name one by some magical decisionmaking process. i think like a few others here, pilot is a term that Arista will use when staring down her nose at someone, though there are only very isolated incidents of people she will get grumpy with.
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Deadie will use 'Pilot' when talking to someone she doesn't know or isn't a friend of hers. This isn't to look down on anyone but she considers all Capsuleers on the same level no matter what people try to say. It is quite amusing what people try and correct her with when they go 'Actually it's lady xxx' or whatever. Deadie's default response would be 'You fly a ship, you're a pilot'. Got quite a rise out of a CONCORD actor in the Summit because of it :D
Nicole will use Mr/Mrs she doesn't know the person well, and even then it can be a hard habit to break. She'll also use the Napanni 'Haan/Haani' suffix if she considers them Loyal to the State/a brother in arms etc.
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Vincent will talk to people just as he feels like. He views most other capsuleers - and people in general - as a waste of the biomass they inhabit. He will show decorum when it suits him or if he thinks positively of someone. He used to create entertaining or demeaning nicknames for people and proceed to use them, excessively so if the person he spoke to got their knickers in a twist.
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As for the methodology she uses, it's more or less what is seen in PF. I've documented it all here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3036104#post3036104), with sources. The one exception from PF I did was using "Her Imperial Majesty" instead of "Her Majesty", in order to distinguish the emperor from heir-level individuals like King Khanid, but that's since become PF as of the PIE ball, when Admiral Ren Karetta used it (thanks CCP!).
This is awesome! Thx for the link and your work.
But what about people who are not nobles?
How will Samira address :
Sepherim or Aldrith and what about non Empire citizens like Kim or Oniseki?
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Maris tries to use people's names as little as possible. Or their titles. She understands that people tend to pay closer attention when someone uses their name or their proper form of address, or more so, an improper form of address ... and it's just better if people don't pay attention.
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As for the methodology she uses, it's more or less what is seen in PF. I've documented it all here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3036104#post3036104), with sources. The one exception from PF I did was using "Her Imperial Majesty" instead of "Her Majesty", in order to distinguish the emperor from heir-level individuals like King Khanid, but that's since become PF as of the PIE ball, when Admiral Ren Karetta used it (thanks CCP!).
This is awesome! Thx for the link and your work.
But what about people who are not nobles?
How will Samira address :
Sepherim or Aldrith and what about non Empire citizens like Kim or Oniseki?
Mister and Miss/Missus, sir and ma'am.
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As for the methodology she uses, it's more or less what is seen in PF. I've documented it all here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3036104#post3036104), with sources. The one exception from PF I did was using "Her Imperial Majesty" instead of "Her Majesty", in order to distinguish the emperor from heir-level individuals like King Khanid, but that's since become PF as of the PIE ball, when Admiral Ren Karetta used it (thanks CCP!).
This is awesome! Thx for the link and your work.
But what about people who are not nobles?
How will Samira address :
Sepherim or Aldrith and what about non Empire citizens like Kim or Oniseki?
Mister and Miss/Missus, sir and ma'am.
Ok, thanks.
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I know Sami documented it in PF, so I am not criticizing her research here at all... but I really don't like the right honorable for holders.
I would much prefer something more evocative of either the religion or the sheer feudal power they hold.
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Well, I think there's two reasons why CCP uses the British styles:
1) They are lazy, the british system is easily available and well documented.
2) People directly recognize them.
Fluff wise I'm sure something more byzantine/achemenid/sassanian would be more on the spot.
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I often have Raph to offer titles to capsuleers he admire or respect. Being bred within the Khanid Kingdom most of his life; titles, royalty and pride is something he values and consent with most often.
Altough he never use the word "Captain" for people that does not have that military rank or alike. Most often talking to people outside of military ranks, he uses the neutral "Pilot" and then the surname of the capsuleer. Moreover, he rarely uses any title while talking to any Matari or Gallente, except for special cases.
Raph likes and admire the DUST mercenaries. They remind him of his time in Special Forces, in the Army. He doesn't look down on them, and refers to them by their title, or just "Soldier" or whatever suits the situation.
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Reppy uses Mr and Ms almost universally. First name indicates someone she likes and considers to be a friend, although she does occasionally slip with this one and use a first name thoughtlessly. She'll also try to stick to last name with someone she respects, although she'll ask how they would prefer to be addressed. Use of last name only is reserved for people beneath contempt, and is universally applied to Sansha, along with that wonderful term 'toaster'.
Mortis, that old bastard, used Mr and Ms exclusively. Even with old friends.
Elysa... just uses whatever the hell she feels like. She's a soldier. Details of how to address people are way too damn fiddly for her to be bothered with.