Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Anslol on 07 Jun 2013, 11:16
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Like a lot of things that have more lasting effects in RP, a fight or some such should be agreed on before hand with multiple possible routes that the fight can lead (as had been mentioned in the 'What is Fair RP?' thread). So it'd stand to reason that the level of violence and/or description of the violenceing would be previously agreed upon.
However, what's your threshold of violence? What's crossing the line or just ...wrong to you? ICly it can be assumed some characters don't have a problem with it. But OOCly, we might still cringe or shy away from a rather descriptive explanation of Hand A moving against Spine B. This could affect IC attitudes to some extent as we simply don't wanna deal with it (and, imo, it's perfectly acceptable for this IC/OOC interaction to happen).
Anslo has been and is a very violent person (lol autopsy report). He hides it well after learning to control his temper and hasn't found himself in a situation where he has to execute ...an emergency spinal surgery. However, I the player have shied away from that because I don't want people OOCly to feel disturbed or some such. I personally can handle it, but still...
So, what's your take?
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I will puree your uterine walls with my I think a little violence in a dystopian turbo-future is to be expected.
I also think that sometimes folks will bring it to the level of near-parody, and then wonder why some don't take it seriously...
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What Graelyn said. ;)
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Erm...I don't think the level of violencing was accurately explained. I meant more on a level of Pyramid Head in the Silent Hill Movie grabbing that one girl and well...ya know...killed her in his own 'unique' way. Just much...much more slowly.
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The question with any description is this: does the added detail serve to increase impact and enrich the play experience, or is it gratuitous?
It's easy as a roleplayer to feel that Moar Is Bettar, when describing all that occurs -- but that's not always true. If anything, veteran RPers who have the chops to be exceedingly descriptive should aim for brevity, distilling their work.
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There's a fine line between fighting and gore. Gratuitous gibbing and spine ripping he-man nonsense tends to make me eyeroll. Most RP fights tend to make me eyeroll too, though, even the ones I've attempted to take part in. I just don't go for it very much, I guess.
As for the level of violence? For most fist fights, blood usually isn't something that shows up until much later, at least in my high school experience. People simply tend to not hit all that hard. Broken noses and busted lips are an exception. Maybe it's different when adults are fighting, but I haven't seen a fight since I was 16.
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I want to explain my position a bit more fully.
Fully granting the fact that we're all near-Gods (tending towards a Cthulhuish bent) with hands stained permanently red... There's something innately Mary Sueish about some of the way some folks portray violence. It's probably just that my own personal eyeroll buttons are being pressed, but I can't stand either "Look at how eeeeeeeevil I am, I am awash in bloooooood!" and the "I am a God made flesh striding among the human worms" - both of which are seen with regrettable regularity.
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It's hard to say. Well-done violence can be quite engaging independent of the actual giblet and gallon count. I tend to get turned off when I suspect someone's actually masturbating to it, though.
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People can do or try whatever they want ICly in my book, as long as they are ready to deal with the ensuing IC consequences. Even if it can make me roll my eyes at times. I will OOCly then maybe avoid RPing with the player in question if it is just not my taste at all.
As long as it remains into the guidelines of the "what is fair RP ?" thread, which is: never telling what happens to my character and letting me deal with that part.
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Re: Oniseki's comments; agreed. Most weapon-y violence should probably consist of: "Stabstabstabbleedintensivecareordeath," or "shootshootshootprobablydead." Fisticuffs can be more protracted but, well, however awesome and godlike Capsuleers are, this isn't an action movie. Why would my capsuleer invest training time in Kung Fu, when she still needs to master her battleship?
Akahoshi; y'know, I wonder if the average capsuleer's view of war shouldn't be more like those of a fighter pilot, artillerist, or tank commander: push buttons, blow up distant enemies. It's antiseptic and doesn't involve bodies -- or, at least, doesn't involve them if you don't look closely, which would be the natural, human defense mechanism when faced with a massive bodycount in an abstract way. So -- it's almost the pilot's choice to become depressed in it, or to wallow in it, a sign of a deranged mind.
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A little violence, for me, is okay when detailing a fight. If someone gets cut, a brief description of the wounding works. I don't think the attacker or the attacked need to do more than that. I'm also okay with upping the violence if it adds and enhances the overall scene.
Ultra-violence or lengthy descriptions of the violence doesn't do anything for me. I know I have a tendency to describe how an attack is executed in great detail, but the result of the attack is very short.
At the end of it, I think a touch of violence is sufficient.
And I give you the following from "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead"
[attachment deleted by admin]
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For me: anything goes.
I will respect other character owners desires (as to not get engaged in violence), but against my characters - anything goes.
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People can do or try whatever they want ICly in my book, as long as they are ready to deal with the ensuing IC consequences. Even if it can make me roll my eyes at times. I will OOCly then maybe avoid RPing with the player in question if it is just not my taste at all.
As long as it remains into the guidelines of the "what is fair RP ?" thread, which is: never telling what happens to my character and letting me deal with that part.
This.
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Anything goes.
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Anything goes, with caveats mostly relating to godmodding and non-consensual permadeath.
If somebody's playing a blood-soaked, frankly kind of boring psychopath who goes just crazy-wrong with it, I get to play the aftermath of a crazy-wrong encounter with a blood-soaked, kind of boring psychopath. THAT is fun, even if the encounter is not.
As a side note, I've never actually had any such RP encounters involving Aria.
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And though I'm not a great romancer,
I know I'm bound to answer
what you propoooooose
anything goes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVsD0rltRr8)
I judge violence in RP is the same as violence in any media. Is it well done? Does it create a specific mood? Does it serve the story?
It's one of those things I can only decide in context.
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I think subtlety can work better.
More interesting from my point of view to see implied violence or the results of those actions rather than having to see them broadcast to an uninterested or uncaring artists.
S. Might bathe in the blood of 1000 virgins with walls painted red, but you don't need to -see- these things rendered in detail ever.
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Anything goes, with caveats mostly relating to godmodding and non-consensual permadeath.
If somebody's playing a blood-soaked, frankly kind of boring psychopath who goes just crazy-wrong with it, I get to play the aftermath of a crazy-wrong encounter with a blood-soaked, kind of boring psychopath. THAT is fun, even if the encounter is not.
As a side note, I've never actually had any such RP encounters involving Aria.
Well, my characters are not into this kind of violence :lol:
They aren't 'blooders' or other psycho for sure. What they might do - is smack you pretty hard. In worst case - shoot you.
Although several other characters made my character to bleed, I prefer more, well, clean forms of violence.
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Anything goes, with caveats mostly relating to godmodding and non-consensual permadeath.
If somebody's playing a blood-soaked, frankly kind of boring psychopath who goes just crazy-wrong with it, I get to play the aftermath of a crazy-wrong encounter with a blood-soaked, kind of boring psychopath. THAT is fun, even if the encounter is not.
As a side note, I've never actually had any such RP encounters involving Aria.
Well, my characters are not into this kind of violence :lol:
They aren't 'blooders' or other psycho for sure. What they might do - is smack you pretty hard. In worst case - shoot you.
Although several other characters made my character to bleed, I prefer more, well, clean forms of violence.
Nor are mine. Hell, I'm not really into being subjected to them, either.
What I am "into," is realism. So, I take what comes.
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Nor are mine. Hell, I'm not really into being subjected to them, either.
What I am "into," is realism. So, I take what comes.
This.
My main complaint with violence in most of EVE RP is that most peoples "violence" that Ive seen is more "action" that you would see in a Hollywood action movie than actual violence.
True violence isnt exciting, its horrifying. I kinda look for that in the RP Im interested in. Glorified violence gets stale after awhile, at least for me.
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Ah, violence. Aldy has seen much of it since becoming a capsuleer. Verone blowing Izanami Jr.'s head off, torturing blooder Maximus with Math'ra, getting tortured himself, getting shot in the Basilica, becoming a cyber knight's bitch, whacking Verone in the head with a sheathed sword, getting into a fistfight with Eran Mintor, seeing Vince after Mitara went medieval on his ass, accidentally getting Vince shot in a separate incident, lighting himself on fire at Silas's party, personally killing Sangiunia with a table leg through the chest, and a few more incidents I forget about.
Do note, this was all through about five years of RP'ing. Instances of violence should be rare and meaningful, they should have OOC cooperation in the back end, and they should have appropriate impacts on characters. Violence is heavy stuff, so it should be handled maturely and carefully. There have been instances where people were... unhappy about certain circumstances. Always discuss what might or will happen in an OOC setting first.
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... getting shot in the Basilica, ...
Well his 'Basilica' still worked enough to become a daddy! So, no harm done.
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What I am "into," is realism. So, I take what comes.
^^^
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Nor are mine. Hell, I'm not really into being subjected to them, either.
What I am "into," is realism. So, I take what comes.
This.
My main complaint with violence in most of EVE RP is that most peoples "violence" that Ive seen is more "action" that you would see in a Hollywood action movie than actual violence.
True violence isnt exciting, its horrifying. I kinda look for that in the RP Im interested in. Glorified violence gets stale after awhile, at least for me.
Many times when people list movies where they thought the violence was 'realistic' and 'true,' I'd consider those movies 'grotesque.'
I tend to measure scenes by how emotionally meaningful I find them, and too much detail when it comes to how the human body can be broken tends to distract from my engagement. For me, it's a problem of too obvious a style overwhelming the substance.*
Of course, for horror films, that's fine. The chest-burster scene in Alien works because it builds up anxiety and then punts it right into visceral repulsion.
I think subtlety can work better.
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S. Might bathe in the blood of 1000 virgins with walls painted red, but you don't need to -see- these things rendered in detail ever.
The human imagination is a wonderful thing. If you imply something, people will come up with their own, personally horrific images.
* How much is 'too much' is subjective, of course.
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I judge violence in RP is the same as violence in any media. Is it well done? Does it create a specific mood? Does it serve the story?
It's one of those things I can only decide in context.
This is the stance I take on it. I also take this stance with regards to ERP and the like.
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I tend to measure scenes by how emotionally meaningful I find them, and too much detail when it comes to how the human body can be broken tends to distract from my engagement. For me, it's a problem of too obvious a style overwhelming the substance....
The human imagination is a wonderful thing. If you imply something, people will come up with their own, personally horrific images.
To the latter: muchly agreed-- though that's a bit harder to pull off where there's a player character being violenced (the player's not going to want to have to guess).
To the former: for me, the way violence is portrayed has a lot to do with the emotional impact. "Hollywood" violence is, for me, fluff-- it's canned excitement, a wad of powdered sugar. Pierce Brosnan's James Bond waves his stolen magical assault rifle of instant, painless death, and bad people fall over. Those are empty calories made all the more damaging by the implicit suggestion that violence is an excellent way of disposing of villains, an easy, clean solution to be frequently carried out without significance or cost.
For action heroes, I'll take Daniel Craig's version-- a brutal killer who may occasionally stumble into heroism, but whom few people would want to be. Perhaps I'm merely jaded (and I certainly will admit to being jaded), but my feeling is that the violence without visceral significance lacks, well, significance.
This is at least partly a matter of taste: as I've grown older, I've lost a lot of my fondness for action for its own sake, partly because I've grown tired of stories that encourage us to take violence lightly.
Please, make me wince and rethink whether I actually want this to happen, or whether I wish there was some other way.
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I tend to see both of those Bonds (and the entire franchise) as glorifying violence.
Daniel Craig is less polished and more gritty, but that's true of the latest Batman and the latest Captain Kirk as well. That's simply the popular way to reboot male hero franchisees.
Even the latest Superman seems to fit that mold.
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I tend to see both of those Bonds (and the entire franchise) as glorifying violence.
Daniel Craig is less polished and more gritty, but that's true of the latest Batman and the latest Captain Kirk as well. That's simply the popular way to reboot male hero franchisees.
Even the latest Superman seems to fit that mold.
The entire franchise does generally glorify violence-- some more than others. I still have an action movie itch to scratch, however-- I'm not quite to the point of wanting all violent movies to be "Saving Private Ryan," "Full Metal Jacket," and "Apocalypse Now."
I just like more grit and moral disquiet rather than less.
(I have "The Last of Us" on preorder, and am REALLY looking forward to it.)
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In general, I abhor "RP-violence", and prefer spaceship boat violence-ing. But then, I prefer to avoid romance in my RP, too. Both of these preferences stem from my belief that it is incredibly hard to plan and execute truly good violent or romantic scenes between two players. If they do happen, I prefer such things to happen organically, and in as low-key a way as is possible.
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Many times when people list movies where they thought the violence was 'realistic' and 'true,' I'd consider those movies 'grotesque.'
This rather highlights the problem. Im not against unrealistic portrayals of violence in movies.
Im against people looking to movies at all for a realistic portrayal of violence, at least when it comes to the kind of RP I find myself enjoying in EVE. A "realistic movie" is still, by its very nature, very unrealistic.
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Hmm, this is the kind of question where I want to say something, but don't know if I should since I'm not really RPing this kind of thing. But nonetheless I agree that subtlety is more effective than explicite details, because of the fascinating imagination humans have.
Just recently I got to write a story with a brief fight scene for my character (only to see it published two weeks early so I now have to adapt my other ongoings *grmbl*grmbl*), which I tried to restrict to only the two or three important highlights and outcomes, but not every single detail. In addition, while my character had to win for the story's sake, I made sure to add an observer noticing that she was inexperienced, and had luck and surprise on her side.
"Why would my capsuleer invest training time in Kung Fu, when she still needs to master her battleship?"
Certain Matari would, as well as old-fashioned Khanid Cyber Knights :)
" A "realistic movie" is still, by its very nature, very unrealistic."
Indeed. As a kid I made the mistake of lending the book "Krieg dem Krieg" from the library. The text was ignorable rah-rah-communism stuff (excusable seeing that is was printed during WW1, when people didn't know yet what communism would turn into), but the pictures... some of them made slasher movies look like wholesome family fun, because at core you know that they're just movies. Ever since, I have been rather ambivalent about the depiction of violence in fiction.
(If you never heard about the book, but are curious and think you can handle reality, here is probably the most iconic image: http://bit.ly/16R6yHy . The truly horrific part for me: this man lived. You have been warned.)
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Personally I don't think it's so more violence being meaningless or bland when it's not gritty or comes from the gut, or neither when it's subtle or not.
Every situation and showcase of violence has its particular and suitable tone. Dandy and muffled violence in old classics like Indiana Jones or Star Wars ? Works well, these movies do not need more. Realistic ? Of course not, but that's not the point of these adventure movies in the first place. Gritty and repulsive violence like in Alien ? Works too, and any other kind of violence, not disgusting and frightening to the bones, would simply not have worked. Trash and gore like in Private Ryan, or emotional/psychological violence like in Shindler's List ? That's the point of the movie, it carries the underlying message. Blunt and nauseous violence like in Irreversible ? Not sure, maybe why the film is so controversial. Dandy spy violence ala Cold War in James Bond (the good ones) ? Works too, kind of similar to Indiana Jones in some way.
The crux of the matter is not that a kind of violence is acceptable or not, the point is more what kind of violence serves the message best, or what kind of violence we do expect from a certain genre. It is of course possible to create a shocking contrast by using some kind of violence opposed to what you would expect to see in a certain genre, but it requires subtlety and a real purpose.
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Personally I feel capsuleers shouldn't be ninjas in the first place. We spend much of our time floating in jelly and avoiding use of our long muscles.
I can see a capsuleer employing goons, or drones, to do the dirty work. I can't see one lasting in a protracted fistfight longer than 15 seconds, because that's about as long as an untrained individual's stamina lasts. There was a story I was planning ages ago, where my character gets quite embarrassingly beaten to death. Well, a death, anyway.
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It's a simple matter of efficiency. When you have more money than God, and you have to devote some non-zero time of your life to training for or actually flying ships, there are literally millions of people who are better than the in-person violencing than you are. Pay them some money to do it for you, and better, at no personal risk to you whatsoever. Win-win situation.
I can see bored and rich capsuleers doing some stuff, as a personality quirk, hobby, or an affectation, but I can't quite see any of the ones who are still thinking straight considering it as something they do. Generals don't fight on the front lines.
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@ Kat: You were very good in the fight we had Simca and Kat do together, and gotta add that you make one hell of an announcer. :D
I don't mind violence in RP though if all you see Character A do is violence then it gets a bit old after about the second or third time you see them. Pretty much all of the violence I do with my characters is in a story as opposed to actual RP, and the few times my characters have fought it was discussed earlier with the other characters involved. Not in great detail since I still enjoy it to be somewhat realistic and reactionary like a real fight, but winners/losers or just getting permission. Drop of the hat type fights are a bit different and I've never been in one, but always had the plans of opening an ooc convo with the other party to avoid godmodding should one ever occur.
I don't agree that capsuleers should hire goons to do their fighting for them. In some cases sure, but some also like to get their hands dirty or at the least don't mind. It's more fun for me to play as my character instead of playing as a group of thugs/soldiers. Ember helped storm a slavers den once and it was much more fun for me to have her there in a sniper nest taking her own shots than to play as a group of soldiers she hired to do the same thing. Most of my characters have a background that lends them to staying in peak physical shape even after they're implanted because I do enjoy the physical action type RP.
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The topic of capsuleers fighting out-of-pod has been touched on before. I fully agree with the statement that it's a bad idea as far as efficiency is concerned. Then again, not everything needs to be sensible. Now and again you do see powerful and privileged people engaging in completely unnecessary dangerous activities for the thrill of it. Capsuleers are eccentric enough that if some of them get a kick out of participating in sports fighting or even ground combat with a softlone in reserve in case things go to hell, I wouldn't consider that much of a stretch of the imagination.
It's not something any of my characters would involve themselves in, and pretty much all of them would roll their eyes at such behavior, but silly does not equal unrealistic.
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On out-of-pod fighting among capsuleers-- I don't mind the idea. Aria always kept herselves physically fit and in practice (albeit to a somewhat variable degree), but knew full well that it was a sort of extraneous activity.
Particularly for characters whose culture, upbringing, or personality puts a lot of value on physical ability for whatever reason, it makes sense.
I do, however, also think that (1) what Hellgremlin said is a solid "rule of thumb" and (2) no capsuleer (I can imagine exceptions, but they're pretty deep in Mary Sue/Gary Stu territory) should claim to be able to take a clone soldier in hand-to-hand, to say nothing of armed combat. That would be the equivalent of me hopping in an assault dropship and claiming to be able to shoot your Merlin down.
(For reference, said dropship is about the size of a light drone and nowhere near as zippy.)
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Shin is a perfect example of Hellgremlin's typical capsuleer. While she works out regularly and has lived for the past 19 years in what she would call a high gravity environment, she grew up in microgravity and will never be considered strong. The one time she has been involved in a real hand to hand fight, she was very nearly killed and survived only because her captor (hi, Graelyn!) is innately a decent man.
As a result of that, Shin is extraordinarily paranoid when she's out of pod. She carries a sophisticated derringer of SOE manufacture*, but her real defense is her extremely capable and very highly paid security retinue. They accompany her in her ship, in stations, and her permanent suites** include areas for their housing and use.
*Courtesy of a very odd reward from a SOE mission, which has since become a fixture of her outfit
**She maintains a number of identical suites in stations she frequents, each with an associated permanent security detatchment.
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Esna's been involved in a few fights, some involved in private, 'relatively' pre-planned storylines and some more spontaneous. Some have gone well, others less so. Unfortunately, I've also run across the "let me set my infinite super-soldier guard swarm on you" kind of thing, as well as the (for lack of a better way to put it) 'godmod-fighter' situation - i.e., "I run across the room and start beating you bloody..." On the other hand, I've also had some VERY good experiences with combat RP - both private with a single other RPer involved in a storyline with Esna, and in more "public" venues.
Personally, I view Esna as initially the product of the Imperial Navy training facility he went to. As such, he was competent with a sidearm and has knowledge (but not experience) of use of other small arms - but nothing more; not an especially good shot, not very good at hand-to-hand, and frankly inferior to the average ground-soldier grunt.
What I DO think fits with Esna's view of and experience with ground combat is that he learns from every single engagement. When he succeeds, he examines what tools helped him succeed; when he fails, he looks at the reasons for his failure and attempts to patch them over. At times I worry this has resulted in as much an "unbeatable" character as someone who was "overpowered" from the start, as Esna prefers to walk into a situation with every conceivable angle already covered, and most characters (and players) I end up fighting aren't actually prepared for a character who has thought through and prepared for the common options.
In the event Esna does have to get into a larger-scale fight, though, he prefers to rely on gadgetry and technology to cover his back - he'll at times deploy in a superheavy combat armor* that is equal parts light tank and command-and-control center, albeit hideously slow and probably noticeable from miles away.
It's important to note, though, that this isn't so he can pull a "space marine" charge straight into enemy fire - it's meant to enhance his skills (command, tactician) and cover his weaknesses (physically weak, not well skilled at combat) merely so that he can survive a potential ambush or unexpected contact with enemy. His preferred method is literally to spray out with the built-in weapons while calling for backup.
* This suit was conceived before DUST was even a thing. I have considered updating to one of the DUST suits, but decided that the dozen or so suits in DUST do not represent every model of suit available and that Esna could find something more suited to his needs.
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In the event Esna does have to get into a larger-scale fight, though, he prefers to rely on gadgetry and technology to cover his back - he'll at times deploy in a superheavy combat armor*
* This suit was conceived before DUST was even a thing. I have considered updating to one of the DUST suits, but decided that the dozen or so suits in DUST do not represent every model of suit available and that Esna could find something more suited to his needs.
Did he loan that to Ashar once? I seem to remember her in some sort of heavy armor at the slave thing that Ember and I believe you were at.
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I don't think so; I'm pretty sure Ashar brought her own that time.
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In general I don't subscribe to anything other than pre-written combat, due to the very unstable ground it has in roleplay communities. The closest I've gotten is a roughing up of sorts in EVE, where Ghost was thrown and stucko'd to a wall in The Last Gate.
My biggest gripe with the concept of non pre-written combat is the amount of ego play involved. Unless it comes out to a stalemate, someone will lose, and I rarely encounter those who play that idea straight. Thus, it's more productive to simply have it pre-planned and hassle free than argue about it on the fly.
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no capsuleer (I can imagine exceptions, but they're pretty deep in Mary Sue/Gary Stu territory) should claim to be able to take a clone soldier in hand-to-hand, to say nothing of armed combat. That would be the equivalent of me hopping in an assault dropship and claiming to be able to shoot your Merlin down.
(For reference, said dropship is about the size of a light drone and nowhere near as zippy.)
I have absolute contrast opinion: we all are mere humans and nothing is invincible. In the first place, main difference between clone soldier and capsuleer is consciousness transfer type. Although CCP depict them as 'superhumans' with extreme strength, during the fight (in dust) they look rather clumsy. I believe that properly trained in hand-to-hand combat capsuleer (or a baseliner) can take down clone soldier disregarding its strength and implants quite easily if will use proper techniques.
Well, and the main idea is: stuff happens. For example, a thoroughly trained and in a pretty good form character can be easily get overwhelmed by untrained and unprepared person because of "stuff". Happened to my character :P Clone soldiers is not exception.
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Personally I feel capsuleers shouldn't be ninjas in the first place. We spend much of our time floating in jelly and avoiding use of our long muscles.
I can see a capsuleer employing goons, or drones, to do the dirty work. I can't see one lasting in a protracted fistfight longer than 15 seconds, because that's about as long as an untrained individual's stamina lasts. There was a story I was planning ages ago, where my character gets quite embarrassingly beaten to death. Well, a death, anyway.
I have one "space ninja" type character - but instead of 'winning errything' she almost always ends in trouble and in pretty terrible condition.
I have one "han solo" type character - she is evasive as I don't know what, and would simply shoot you with a gun she holds under the table instead of starting or accepting the fight.
Other my characters are pretty harmless and would simply run straightforward to a capsule and won't poke their noses out, if they will feel danger.
But under no way I am going to use some "deus ex machina" by roleplaying NPC, goons, hired staff and so on. I have read somewhere, that it is CCP's chore to roleplay NPCs, and Im not going into this.
The only way for me to use not my characters - is when I write stories. In RP I am only me and myself alone (well, add to this my small army of alts, with whom I can roleplay between myselves) :P
Oh, well, and my characters even fight among themselves with a mild violence. Happened at least twice between my "spaceninja" and "hansolo" :lol:
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Personally I feel capsuleers shouldn't be ninjas in the first place. We spend much of our time floating in jelly and avoiding use of our long muscles.
I can see a capsuleer employing goons, or drones, to do the dirty work. I can't see one lasting in a protracted fistfight longer than 15 seconds, because that's about as long as an untrained individual's stamina lasts. There was a story I was planning ages ago, where my character gets quite embarrassingly beaten to death. Well, a death, anyway.
I have one "space ninja" type character - but instead of 'winning errything' she almost always ends in trouble and in pretty terrible condition.
I have one "han solo" type character - she is evasive as I don't know what, and would simply shoot you with a gun she holds under the table instead of starting or accepting the fight.
Other my characters are pretty harmless and would simply run straightforward to a capsule and won't poke their noses out, if they will feel danger.
But under no way I am going to use some "deus ex machina" by roleplaying NPC, goons, hired staff and so on. I have read somewhere, that it is CCP's chore to roleplay NPCs, and Im not going into this.
The only way for me to use not my characters - is when I write stories. In RP I am only me and myself alone (well, add to this my small army of alts, with whom I can roleplay between myselves) :P
Oh, well, and my characters even fight among themselves with a mild violence. Happened at least twice between my "spaceninja" and "hansolo" :lol:
IIRC Duster Clones are specially constructed, with reinforced skeletons, etc (to handle the weapons and for strength) making them generally superior to run of the mill baseliner meat sacs.
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IIRC Duster Clones are specially constructed, with reinforced skeletons, etc (to handle the weapons and for strength) making them generally superior to run of the mill baseliner meat sacs.
I can name at least three capsuleer player characters who can rival them with all these augmentations they got, but I think further discussion in this key belongs here http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=4235.0
My characters are rather meat sacs :lol:
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Heh, well, considering Lyn's stamina and constitution, even a pet furrier could beat her down. ^_^
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Anything goes, with caveats mostly relating to godmodding and non-consensual permadeath.
If somebody's playing a blood-soaked, frankly kind of boring psychopath who goes just crazy-wrong with it, I get to play the aftermath of a crazy-wrong encounter with a blood-soaked, kind of boring psychopath. THAT is fun, even if the encounter is not.
As a side note, I've never actually had any such RP encounters involving Aria.
This is largely my take on it as well.
Personally I feel capsuleers shouldn't be ninjas in the first place. We spend much of our time floating in jelly and avoiding use of our long muscles.
I can see a capsuleer employing goons, or drones, to do the dirty work. I can't see one lasting in a protracted fistfight longer than 15 seconds, because that's about as long as an untrained individual's stamina lasts. There was a story I was planning ages ago, where my character gets quite embarrassingly beaten to death. Well, a death, anyway.
this too.
The question with any description is this: does the added detail serve to increase impact and enrich the play experience, or is it gratuitous?
It's easy as a roleplayer to feel that Moar Is Bettar, when describing all that occurs -- but that's not always true. If anything, veteran RPers who have the chops to be exceedingly descriptive should aim for brevity, distilling their work.
A good rule I try to follow with this is to try not to let my posts/emotes continue for more then the amount of space allowed in one text block.
In general I don't subscribe to anything other than pre-written combat, due to the very unstable ground it has in roleplay communities. The closest I've gotten is a roughing up of sorts in EVE, where Ghost was thrown and stucko'd to a wall in The Last Gate.
My biggest gripe with the concept of non pre-written combat is the amount of ego play involved. Unless it comes out to a stalemate, someone will lose, and I rarely encounter those who play that idea straight. Thus, it's more productive to simply have it pre-planned and hassle free than argue about it on the fly.
This is something I've definitely noticed. The whole 'my character is a badass' 'no, my character is more of a badass' thing gets a bit annoying. I'm not opposed to getting into, and losing an RP fight, but I don't want the reason I have to lose be that the other person says their character to be invincible or some kind of super-commando, which seems to happen...rather often.
I do, however, also think that (1) what Hellgremlin said is a solid "rule of thumb" and (2) no capsuleer (I can imagine exceptions, but they're pretty deep in Mary Sue/Gary Stu territory) should claim to be able to take a clone soldier in hand-to-hand, to say nothing of armed combat. That would be the equivalent of me hopping in an assault dropship and claiming to be able to shoot your Merlin down.
Yeah this. I think what the issue I have when people get into out of pod fights is there is no objective mechanical way to determine the outcome, it all comes down to collaborative RP. That's why I'm generally much more willing to engage in that sort of RP with people I trust OOCly. Because RP is always consensual at the end of the day (the other player can just close the chat tab and walk away with no real consequences) there's nothing your character can really force on the other character, or vise versa. Unlike in space, there is no real way to force non-consensual conflict on a character. Because of that, it always seems to come down to people just trying to one up each other and everyone trying to be more of a badass super-soldier then everyone around them. People can claim anything they want about their characters, and make them as badass as they want, but I don't have to let that effect my RP, so those characters are largely irrelevant to me.
Saede is, while not exactly weak outside of the pod, definitely not actually a soldier, and she knows it. Thus, she's never gotten into a situation that would have her in a hand-to-hand fight, she's got people for that, she's not so incompetent as to let someone like, slip into her quarters and hurt her. I have no problem with people trying, but I'd need some sort of really, really compelling reason why they wouldn't be stopped by the soldiers and guards Saede has.
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This is something that concerns me as well - not because Esna is a cigar-chomping, muscle-bound, machine-gun-toting, cybernetic badass - but because his character has developed in such a way that he plans out every little encounter. He walks into situations where other people - other RPing players - may not have been expecting that degree of pre-planning for every possible angle, and I sometimes feel that players are frustrated that Esna is "ready" for things they throw at him because he has - IC - thought of it or seen it already.
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"Why would my capsuleer invest training time in Kung Fu, when she still needs to master her battleship?"
Certain Matari would, as well as old-fashioned Khanid Cyber Knights :)
I have Gottii practice martial arts, because pretty much thats what Brutor culture is, those "ancient martial traditions theyre trained in since childhood", all the better to make him "physically robust and intimidating to meet in the flesh", which is what PF tells us is the standard Brutor. But hes not particularly special in that regard.
Also, I wrote quite a bit of his background as a Valklear, which Ive really enjoyed. Even got my background blog linked to the chronicle comments by the devs, which was humbling and quite an honor. Granted, Gottii's told all of one other character about this background IC (at least since they reconned that Valklear background as secret.)
Its been really fun, having a secret background that your character tells no one IC is quite entertaining, liberating, and interesting. I can drop little nuggets into IC conversation that makes these interesting and nuanced, at least for me. Also, makes for a bit more realism in my opinion. The actual soldiers who have seen and done things will almost always tell no one. They dont need nor want to.
That said, I believe in something I've called "Gottii's Law" -- i.e. "how interesting, compelling, unique, and realistic a pod pilot character comes across is often inversely related to the amount of combat training/uber cybernetics/badassness the character professes to possess."
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Reserved for my own thoughts at a later date because I am WAY too tired to put together a coherent post.
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In the first place, main difference between clone soldier and capsuleer is consciousness transfer type.
Well, that might be the single largest difference, at least. I think the "main" one is that a clone soldier is, by definition, a professional soldier, while a capsuleer is normally a professional pilot.
Although CCP depict them as 'superhumans' with extreme strength, during the fight (in dust) they look rather clumsy.
Please to bear in mind that there are three classes of suits. Two of them are a bit clumsy, but that's when wearing heavy combat armor (extremely heavy, in the case of the Amarr heavy suit).
The third class, properly skilled, is next to invisible to electronic surveillance, depends on agility to evade most enemy fire, and runs at 29.5 kph (roughly 18 mph) without further modules.
That's what Yun Hee uses.
I believe that properly trained in hand-to-hand combat capsuleer (or a baseliner) can take down clone soldier disregarding its strength and implants quite easily if will use proper techniques.
Out of a dropsuit, maybe. Remember that fight between Deckard and Roy at the end of "Blade Runner"?
Yeah. That one.
Roy strikes me as a pretty good example of what you can expect from an unarmored clone soldier.
Add in the dropsuit, and you've just given Roy power armor that can absorb a handful of direct hits from a plasma rifle, augmented strength, and a fast-regenerating personal shield. That's maybe not an insurmountable problem (one of the lower-level DUST weapons is a submachine gun apparently popular with the Angel Cartel for ages, and still quite effective), but it's a seriously unhappy one if you're not similarly equipped.
And remember that most clone soldiers, as CCP Eterne, I think it was, once put it, "don't take off their helmets much."
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This is something that concerns me as well - not because Esna is a cigar-chomping, muscle-bound, machine-gun-toting, cybernetic badass - but because his character has developed in such a way that he plans out every little encounter. He walks into situations where other people - other RPing players - may not have been expecting that degree of pre-planning for every possible angle, and I sometimes feel that players are frustrated that Esna is "ready" for things they throw at him because he has - IC - thought of it or seen it already.
Ollie Rundle > /emote cancels all future "Red Wedding" type plans for Esna and returns to drawing board. :lol: