Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Makkal on 28 May 2013, 16:24
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I was in the OOC the other day when Arthas Romanov tracked down Diana Kim, cut off her ear, broke her kneecap, stabbed her and left her to bleed to death. I expected someone to take Kim up on her 'offer,' but I was surprised when the player noted that Arthas had skipped his 'antipsychotics.'
People in the real world can certainly do horrific things to those they see as an enemy without mental illness and Arthas has a history of violence.
It got me thinking about capsuleer dementia. I originally assumed that this was a phrase RPer had come up to explain the words and behaviors of non-RPers. When Makkal interacts with someone who says they're really a engineer from Milwakee who's playing a game, she assumes that they're suffering from some type of delusion.
Then characters refer to any overly violent or amoral viewpoint as capsuleer dementia. I've even had character suggest that Amarrian milita members are suffering from capsuleer dementia because... they're evil slavers.
It's hard for me to distinguish IC from OOC viewpoints for a specific character, but when I see a dozen different characters from different cultures engage in 'he so crazy,' I can't help but feel it's a rather troubling OOC stereotype leaking through.
Does anyone else feel uncomfortable with the way mental illness is often handled?
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With regard to the Arthas thing in specific: Are you sure that comment wasn't in jest?
Anyhow, while as I understood it "capsuleer dementia" was exactly as you had described it (a tool to excuse the legions of players who treat the game as a game and nothing more), I think some degree of IC "he so crazy" is inevitable as well. Simple IC denigration of your opponent by suggesting mental illness is a common tactic, as it dehumanizes them and excuses what might otherwise be perceived as over-the-top or to hard.
At the same time, I agree that it's not necessarily beneficial in the cooperative environment that RP is, especially when applied across the board to all political opponents (one particular one I've been seeing a lot lately that bugs me a great deal is "Oh, you believe in any religion/faith/spiritualism at all? Must obviously have a mental issue.").
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Just because someone says you're crazy doesn't mean they're right, or that they aren't simply an asshole. :P
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Just because someone says you're crazy doesn't mean they're right, or that they aren't simply an asshole. :P
Sometimes they are right, but you'd hope that they could also use that knowledge to not go over the top on descriptors.
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See, I was considering whether or not to actually do anything regarding that offer. Guess I waited too long to decide.
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Let's just say that I have great admiration for those that can play characters with mental illness with subtlety. The scariest crazies are the ones that you don't notice 'till it's too late.
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Let's just say that I have great admiration for those that can play characters with mental illness with subtlety. The scariest crazies are the ones that you don't notice 'till it's too late.
Yeah, this is actually the viewpoint I dislike. The assumption that mental illness equals 'scary and dangerous.'
I'd say I have the most admiration for people who can play out the difficulties of being mentally ill without suggesting that this makes their character evil or amoral or whatever.
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It is frustrating to me that the only form of mental illness that CCP seems to think would be prevalent among capsuleers is murderous psychopathy...I suspect you'd see a lot more fucked up PTSD and survivor's guilt from people who had literally died dozens or hundreds or thousands of times than you would sudden out-of-touch psychopaths who think they will live forever (especially since the oldest PCs in Eve have only been "immortal" for a decade, which makes it seem a little premature to start proclaiming the start of a posthuman revolution).
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I'd say I have the most admiration for people who can play out the difficulties of being mentally ill without suggesting that this makes their character evil or amoral or whatever.
I try to play Katrina that way.
She is (or was) an emotional train wreck after Simca's death. Those close to her can attest to her being wildly unpredictable and generally unstable. She's gotten better since then, but at no time did I have her mental illness cause her to be some sort of 'edgy' crazy person.
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People using mental illness as an insult is nothing new. As long as it's being done IC, I see nothing wrong with people doing that. It might be an OOC stereotype leaking in, but well, it's not the only one.
As far as assumptions or whatever go, people can assume all they want. That type of insanity does exist, it's just far from being the only or even the most common type. If people want to assume that is what constitutes insanity, then oh well. Just means they'll miss the more subtle types.
For my part, I find playing mentally damaged characters very intriguing. I'd like to think I do it well. I don't care much for the crazy psychopathic ax-murderer type, I find that rather dull compared to the more subtle, pervasive issues.
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Let's just say that I have great admiration for those that can play characters with mental illness with subtlety. The scariest crazies are the ones that you don't notice 'till it's too late.
Yeah, this is actually the viewpoint I dislike. The assumption that mental illness equals 'scary and dangerous.'
I'd say I have the most admiration for people who can play out the difficulties of being mentally ill without suggesting that this makes their character evil or amoral or whatever.
I don't really disagree. Perhaps I should have included the word nuance in there somewhere. But in my experience, mental illness can indeed be scary and/or dangerous, wether the afflicted is benevolent or malevolent, especially if it goes unnoticed.
For example: what if you based your actions on the testimony of someone suffering from halucinations/paranoia etc? What if the lynchpin of your 5-year plan is someone who is suicidal?
I guess it's sort of natural to go for the illnesses that provide more drama, as things like bibliomania (sidenote: even bibliomania can be scary and dangerous, in my opinion) are a bit harder to incorporate into your everyday RP.
Edit: sidenote
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Let's just say that I have great admiration for those that can play characters with mental illness with subtlety. The scariest crazies are the ones that you don't notice 'till it's too late.
Yeah, this is actually the viewpoint I dislike. The assumption that mental illness equals 'scary and dangerous.'
I'd say I have the most admiration for people who can play out the difficulties of being mentally ill without suggesting that this makes their character evil or amoral or whatever.
As an individual with a family member who suffers from schizophrenia, thank you.
Is it scary? Yes, sometimes it absolutely can be. But to answer the initial question ...
Does anyone else feel uncomfortable with the way mental illness is often handled?
Yeah, I really often do, given the tendency for it to be an ill-conceived character trait with little to add other than 'watch out, I'm twisted and deranged!' There are exceptions, of course, but not a lot.
If I had the wherewithal I would elaborate but that's sort of what it is. I'm hearing ya on this, Makkal.
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As someone suffering from psychic illness, I can only agree with what Safai said.
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Let's just say that I have great admiration for those that can play characters with mental illness with subtlety. The scariest crazies are the ones that you don't notice 'till it's too late.
Yeah, this is actually the viewpoint I dislike. The assumption that mental illness equals 'scary and dangerous.'
I'd say I have the most admiration for people who can play out the difficulties of being mentally ill without suggesting that this makes their character evil or amoral or whatever.
This is one of the reason's I like Scherezad's character a lot.
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Yeah, I have to give a big +1 that.
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I think there are a couple of issues here.
1) There are a couple of different ways that people use 'capsuleer dementia'. You mention both of them: The first is as an explanation for people saying OOC things. The second is usually referring, in my experience, not being mentally ill in general, but the tendency capsuleers have for being apparently violent psychopaths or sociopaths - there is a set of similar symptoms usually displayed. Those two things can overlap. (lol, I owned ur fleet etc).
2) RPing mental illness. This can, sometimes - even often - overlap the above also: if you are playing the IC aspect of capsuleer dementia. I think, though, that it mental illness IC is fairly common within the RP community, and is often done in a way where Evil=Crazy and Crazy=Dangerous are not automatically true, except largely in cases of 1) above - which does to my mind refer most often to certain types of mental illness that seems to strike capsuleers. The whole remorselessly killing berjillions of people thing, detachment from humanity (and its attendant expected emotional responses), etc. In many cases, though, I think that IC mental illness that isn't of that form is likely not something many other people see. After all, going on an over the top murder spree is pretty high profile and dramatic. Being depressed, on the other hand, can be something you aren't even aware of in a fairly close friend. Ditto many other mental illnesses. I have a character with fairly serious PTSD, and noone outside her family and doctors are (IC) aware of it as far as I know.
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Yeah, this is actually the viewpoint I dislike. The assumption that mental illness equals 'scary and dangerous.'
I'd say I have the most admiration for people who can play out the difficulties of being mentally ill without suggesting that this makes their character evil or amoral or whatever.
Well I have Asperger's Syndrome and given that I roleplay him, I'm pretty sure Andreus does as well. Even in terms of stereotypes Asperger's Syndrome is hardly the most evilscary mental disorder, though.
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Halete certainly has her bouts of 'ax-crazy' and I don't believe she's 'subtle'. That said, I still enjoy her immensely. She has her own biology and when I play she comes through as very fluid to me - and those I RP with closely - and she comes to life.
I strongly stand by her not being 'evil', some would disagree.
I tend to give her losses and gains around the times of pod deaths, and occasionally (albeit less frequently) across jump cloning. She is also fully functional (if eccentric) in most situations, only really growing violent when under stress.
I tend to agree that the more interesting 'crazies' are the subtle type, usually, but I'm curious as if people have problems with Halete due to the opinions I'm seeing present in this thread.
Do get in touch with me if this is the case.
I think the problem more lies in mental illness being used by people to try and be edgy. These characters are often not very well thought through.
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Yeah, this is actually the viewpoint I dislike. The assumption that mental illness equals 'scary and dangerous.'
I'd say I have the most admiration for people who can play out the difficulties of being mentally ill without suggesting that this makes their character evil or amoral or whatever.
Well I have Asperger's Syndrome and given that I roleplay him, I'm pretty sure Andreus does as well. Even in terms of stereotypes Asperger's Syndrome is hardly the most evilscary mental disorder, though.
I really cannot enhance this point beyond what the two prior posters have stated.
I have had my brushes with clinical depression, and the only people it's scary for are the afflicted individual and those close enough to be told in worse moments of how bad it can really feel. A lot of the fear of mental illness is similar to 'body horror' effects that people have expressed concerning thalidomide or amputation visuals - 'Does it hurt?' and 'Oh god what if that happened to me?'. Mental illness or even mere difference can be all the more scary as it is invisible aside from what may appear to be 'random outbursts' or a slew of subtle differences.
A primal fear of not being whole (disclaimer - not implying people with disabilities 'are not whole' - this is for highlighting the ignorance, not a judgement), and an unhealthy dose of ignorance put mental illness firmly in the terrifying category for a majority - and I must admit that the idea of losing my faculties to alzeheimers, psychosis or the likes, no matter how unlikely that may be, scares the bejeezus out of me. It is easier to externalize that fear and project it, victim blaming of a form, than it is to rationalize that fear as internal.
Blind acceptance of this possibility is almost as bad as fear driven ignorance. The only real way to understand is when people in your life feel close enough to you to share, and maybe even answer some questions - no matter how childish they may seem. Sometimes being told 'no it doesn't hurt , but it feels like X' works miracles in building up some surface level of understanding.
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Yeah. It's an unfortunate problem that even among the roleplay community many people are openly and gleefully disrespectful of such issues.
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Is this a similar issue to people that have mental problems as real lesbians have with the Space Lesbian trope?
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Is this a similar issue to people that have mental problems as real lesbians have with the Space Lesbian trope?
In part.
It's also that a lot of people tend to be deeply disrespectful about disorders in general.
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For what it's worth, I have been professionally diagnosed with severe depression and described by my therapist as possessing strong 'gender dysphoria'.
I live in a shared household with several other people of varying and colorful clinically diagnosed disorders.
If there is anything that I try to be concerning such issues, it's respectful.
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Does anyone else feel uncomfortable with the way mental illness is often handled?
Yes. As the assholes who do it most often have no idea what it's actually like to live with one and have very ridiculous conceptions of how this shit works and use it as some retarded excuse to do some weird ultraviolence fetish crap.
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In real life, people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence than people without; and far less likely to be perpetrators of violence than people without.
Cheap stereotypes of 'crazy' abound in popular culture, RP is no exception, and in my opinion they're not just disrespectful, they're dangerous, because by feeding misconceptions they affect people's behavior and their level of support for public policies that make a real difference to people with mental illness.
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Katla is a psychological mess, having suffered from long periods of depression through much of her life. She also has a couple of debilitating, though not precisely crippling, phobias.
The scary dangerous crazy bits of her are all ideology and philosophy, though, not mental illness - though it can be a coping mechanism for her mental illness, sometimes.
Ruby doubtlessly comes off as insane to many people, but she's not actually mentally ill, as I see it. She's just socialized very weirdly.
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Does anyone else feel uncomfortable with the way mental illness is often handled?
Yes. As the assholes who do it most often have no idea what it's actually like to live with one and have very ridiculous conceptions of how this shit works and use it as some retarded excuse to do some weird ultraviolence fetish crap.
This, basically. I've almost never seen it used as anything other than a crutch to support some sort of "I am a human God striding among the little worms" RP.
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As someone who was diagnosed years ago with Sadistic Personality Disorder (nonsexual, not associated with Anti-Social), I always sneer at the wildly ignorant depictions of Sadists in RP.
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I think I've played my character's mental illness to perfection. Everyone who interacts with him considers Istvaan suave, charming, powerful, and dangerous. No-one outright calls him a sociopath, even though that's what he blatantly obviously is when you look at him from a psychologist's perspective.
Much like in the real world - the psychos are the ones running things :)
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I think a lot of people confuse being callous, uncaring or just plain jaded for having a psychological disorder.
Morwen's got her own laundry list of issues, but rather than try listing them or w/e, I'd rather reveal them by just letting her be herself, and let people figure them out through interacting with or watching her.
She'll admit to some of them if confronted about it, but she definitely doesn't go out of her way to use it as an excuse for her behavior like some people do. People who do that annoy the crap out of her (and me, IRL).
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So, two thoughts.
(1) It is indeed rare for people to properly play a real form of mental illness well. Our feelings about it are often informed more by media sources (mad scientists and their conceptual kin) than by any kind of serious study or understanding of the conditions portrayed, and often fit more under the heading of "this character is crazy" than "this character suffers from conditions X, Y, and Z, which I have meticulously researched and am portraying with care."
(2) I don't believe that capsuleer dementia fits in the same discussion. It's a fictitious "ailment" that causes its subjects to approach life as though they were playing a game, and it's nearly ubiquitous among capsuleers both in and outside the RP community. It can be roughly described as progressive psychopathy, but part of the fun of it is that it isn't real. "Studying" it is an IC attempt to make IC sense of actions and attitudes that largely originate OOC, and my writings on it serve OOC as a series of musings on the effects of power and perspective. The RP surrounding it is less about pretending to be crazy and more a thought experiment on what gamer behavior might be diagnosed as if it manifested IRL. It's also a discussion mirrored in a great many conversations about transhumanism and what it means to be human, or not.
From where I sit, it's a whole separate subject.
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I think part of the problem, and I do think it can be a problem, is the classic desire to make a character that's "different", and doing so with a very broad brush.
It seems to often be accompanied by an unwillingness to be collaborative in RP scenes, and so you get...
The violins continue to play softly in the background. Lord Ponsonby turns to the lady by his side. "This is most exquisite, is it not, Lady Throckmorton?"
'Crazy' McShane runs through the room. "I'VE GOT A BUNCH OF BANANAS! BANANAS!"'
'Crazy' throws bananas at everyone and shoots the guitar player with a banana gun!!
'Crazy' runs away again.
Lady Throckmorton raises an eyebrow. "Indeed," she says, deliberately not noticing any bananas that might or might not be in the process of being hastily cleaned up.
I agree about the RL problematic bit, though there are many RL problematic things that happen in RP. I just think it's... um... non-optimal RP.
ObMyCharacter bit: Laria has lots of weird issues, but the only one that could be classed as a mental illness is mild agoraphobia planet-side. But as she's only been planetside four times in her life, it's understandable.
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Seriphyn is emotionally damaged, though like most people with some sort of disorder he acts normal the majority of the time. It instead manifests itself in episodes of severe melancholy and immaturity, though men in general can suffer from the latter regardless, really. I say these things with no academic, professional, or even anecdotal knowledge of mental health. Even as an across-the-board healthy person, I find the idea of using a psychological disorder to justify "dark" RP to be in poor taste. Especially if it is used as an excuse for bad RP.
Problem is is that because Seri is not in with the popular crowd, any disorder is not perceived as valid. This comes despite some CCP canonity behind it. If Seri was female he would receive far more sympathy.
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Much like Aria, I find I never mentally connected capsule dementia and the myriad of fictional psychopathies that we seem so happy to inflict on our characters to anything in the real world. Capsuleer dementia isn't supposed to be a realistic illness. It's hopefully as offensive to people with genuine issues as the idea of vampirism would be to anemics.
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Fun fact: BB is the kind of person that routinely does things one would likely describe as "evil" and "vile" for ideological reasons an treat people widely different based on them, yet he does not suffer from any kind of illness that I know of, or planned. I'm confident at some point someone will claim this is due some sort of condition - simply because of the above mentioned ideas that [insert illness] is seen as a 'common' excuse/explanation for such behavior.
I have no plan to intentionally add any kind of official illness or condition to him to explain anything, as the idea that you can be perfectly healthy and still "evil" is one of the basic ideas around my toon. Also, the idea that "evil" is a highly debatable and subjective term for a person's actions.
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I'd be wary of trying to place our terrestrial-bound hum drum psychological issues in the same league as immortal demigods moving through the stars and vaporizing thousands of people with their thoughts on a regular basis.
They are mostly very, very crazy by today's standards.
At least, its extremely common and easy for capsuleers to cut the terrestrial ties to morality and common experience with humanity.
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Problem is is that because Seri is not in with the popular crowd, any disorder is not perceived as valid. This comes despite some CCP canonity behind it. If Seri was female he would receive far more sympathy.
Actually, I don't see this as being the case. Seri doesn't get a lot of sympathy because he comes across as a rather distasteful man. Were he a distasteful female, I don't think he would garner any more sympathy.
Well, except from Anslo, perhaps. He's got a thing for crazy pants... :cube:
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How is he distateful ? o_O
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How is he distateful ? o_O
Arrogant, self-centered, conceited, prone to whining, self-aggrandizing, and self-righteous.
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Well, there should be some kind of line to distinguish craziness and real mental illness.
For example, if a character is adrenaline addict (not adrenaline as a drug, but rather prefers to put self into dangerous situations for the thrill), will be this characters actions considered as crazy? Most probably will be.
What we should remember, that a human brain is kind of sponge, it is a neurocomputer that learn itself with information it absorbs. We analyze information and act according to pattern that were set by previous experience. If someone's brain had experience much different to your and acts completely different, than you would in same situation, it doesn't mean that it is malfunctioning (as has some kind of illness), but rather was trained this way. You can consider such characters actions as crazy, because you wouldn't do this thing yourself ever. But you had different experience, right?
As for actual mental illnesses, I usually imagine mentally ill peoples as practically harmless.
Evil crazy mentally ill - this is something "comics-esque" for me.
And I will agree with Aria, that "capsuleer dementia" is a thing that makes you think you play a game.
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How is he distateful ? o_O
Arrogant, self-centered, conceited, prone to whining, self-aggrandizing, and self-righteous.
... frequently a dick to his girlfriend, and entirely unapologetic about all of the above.
It's less to do with being a woman or "in with the popular crowd" or not, and more to do with the way the character acts towards people who theoretically ought to be on his own side.
It's the behavior, not the person.
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How is he distateful ? o_O
Arrogant, self-centered, conceited, prone to whining, self-aggrandizing, and self-righteous.
So...he's Gallente. 8)
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How is he distateful ? o_O
Arrogant, self-centered, conceited, prone to whining, self-aggrandizing, and self-righteous.
Not more than half of the capsuleers on the IGS... We have quite good specimens embodying all of these facets.
... frequently a dick to his girlfriend, and entirely unapologetic about all of the above.
True.
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Not more than half of the capsuleers on the IGS... We have quite good specimens embodying all of these facets.
Are those examples more popular and well liked than him? I can think of several characters that share his personality traits including my own at certain points of time. None of those (including my own at those times) were very well liked at all.
Boobs don't make a difference.
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Everyone who interacts with him considers Istvaan suave, charming, powerful, and dangerous.
Really? I must have caught him on an anomalous day then.
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Not more than half of the capsuleers on the IGS... We have quite good specimens embodying all of these facets.
Are those examples more popular and well liked than him? I can think of several characters that share his personality traits including my own at certain points of time. None of those (including my own at those times) were very well liked at all.
Boobs don't make a difference.
I am not saying that boobs always make a difference, or that they could have made a difference in his case either.
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Not more than half of the capsuleers on the IGS... We have quite good specimens embodying all of these facets.
Are those examples more popular and well liked than him? I can think of several characters that share his personality traits including my own at certain points of time. None of those (including my own at those times) were very well liked at all.
Boobs don't make a difference.
I am not saying that boobs always make a difference, or that they could have made a difference in his case either.
Oh I know. sorry, The boobs comment wasn't directed at you. I just combined my replies to two different people into one post.
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Quick comment on my lunch break,
I've tried very hard to make Scherezad believably mentally damaged. However, it's entirely traced back to actual biological damage, making it a different animal from the "crazy" we see in some Capsuleers.
I would give anyone hoping to role play a 'crazy' person to do their homework and read about the issue, and how those people cope with it. Emphasize the flaws, and make sure they're real flaws, not a gloss of dysfunction to garner sympathy. Being OCD isn't about making the silverware on the table just right, it's about being two hours late for work because you had to check every single light switch in your house, because one was up instead of down.
It deserves careful attention, and I frequently worry that scherezad is an insult to brain trauma victims.
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How is he distateful ? o_O
Arrogant, self-centered, conceited, prone to whining, self-aggrandizing, and self-righteous.
Like many capsuleers then. I always saw the 'hatin on Seri' line of action as a popularely enforced and socially acceptable thing to do, as opposed to always a justified action. People and players among them can be assholes and reinforce each other's assholery, why should their toons be different? And then, there are the times it is deserved.
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Quick comment on my lunch break,
I've tried very hard to make Scherezad believably mentally damaged. However, it's entirely traced back to actual biological damage, making it a different animal from the "crazy" we see in some Capsuleers.
I would give anyone hoping to role play a 'crazy' person to do their homework and read about the issue, and how those people cope with it. Emphasize the flaws, and make sure they're real flaws, not a gloss of dysfunction to garner sympathy. Being OCD isn't about making the silverware on the table just right, it's about being two hours late for work because you had to check every single light switch in your house, because one was up instead of down.
It deserves careful attention, and I frequently worry that scherezad is an insult to brain trauma victims.
Somehow I think that Scherezad is way more normal than everyone else around.
Uhh... and a reason for concern: does it make me crazy? :lol:
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Everyone who interacts with him considers Istvaan suave, charming, powerful, and dangerous.
Really? I must have caught him on an anomalous day then.
Actually, Andreus considers him to be a goofy drug-addict who's soft in the head because he sampled too much of his own product, both figuratively (in terms of the rock-star mercenary life-ruiner for hire image) and literally (in terms of the massive amounts of drugs he takes).
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Istvaan has the reputation of a suave and charming interstellar spymaster, yes, but on literally all occasions my characters have interacted with him in the flesh, he was high as a kite and doing his damned best to be the biggest class clown of all time. It was a bit of a let-down, for some.
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Off of the top of my head, Halete is weirdly socially developed and her philosophy/ideology could be considered 'evil'. ... But that can be said for most characters given the vastly contradicting views in the universe. But besides that, she's only prone to violence under extreme stress and actually despises committing in most situations. She has an extremely poor ability to function under stress and finds harmful (most often self-harmful) coping methods.
Besides this she's eccentric (this mostly stems from identity dysphoria. She wants to be a kid again and be somewhere else far away from the Cluster), sure. Even then, I feel like a lot of her perceived weirdness comes from her bizarre ideologies and her strange speaking mannerisms rather than being an actual danger to people around her.
I believe that she has struck another character unprovoked roughly... zero times with the intention of hurting them (not counting play-fighting and etc). And even provoked, I think that number climbs to... roughly zero times, because she doesn't like doing it. I think she may have slapped some characters for being perverted and that's it.
Haven't vivisected any tourists yet or etc.
She will be supporting the Reclaiming but that's an ideology stemming from compassion; she truly believes that she will be doing a service that will help her people.
I have serious anxiety problems and I know that Halete doesn't have the greatest 'visibility' so I worry that people get the wrong idea that I act out for the sake of being edgy or whatever when they only see her every so often. :(
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Haven't vivisected any tourists yet or etc.
You know, you're not the only one who has do deal with this:
I have serious anxiety problems . . . I worry that people get the wrong idea that I act out for the sake of being edgy or whatever
No, I 'act out' because I'm terrible at roleplay and a lot of bad ideas don't occur as such to me until after the fact. Not because I actually want to be RPing a psychopath, and it irks me that half the community seems gleefully quick to slap around mental illness as a form of ad hominem, and as 'proof' that nothing my character says is actually valid. It took a while to sort of 'get the feel' for the way I wanted to characterize Saede and yeah I did some derpy ass shit with her initially, but it would be cool if that one thing didn't get pulled up ever 10 minutes as 'proof of my badness' while ignoring everything else I try to do in favour of poking holes in my RP.
If you guys just want me to leave that badly, just say so.
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I am not under the impression that anyone wants anyone else 'gone' at all. To me this is an interesting (albeit sad that it is necessary at all) discussion about those few instances where mental illness is explicitly held up as a shield or target for ridicule, in the name of countless varieties of 'character building'. The important part being the explicit nature of such.
Implications or people coming to their own conclusions are unavoidable, but frequently say more about the perceiving party than the perceived.
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Closest think Kala has to a mental illness is occasional fits of depression and a near total disregard for her own safety once in the pod.
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...a near total disregard for her own safety once in the pod.
Wait, that's a thing? I though that was par for the course, what with capsuleers being near impossible to kill off, ships being replaceable and crew being irrelevant, and all that.
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Sorry Saede hun, I was only trying to be playful. That wasn't a snipe at your character; I actually enjoyed the idea of Saede as a psychopath and the early stuff with the tourists and her extreme pragmatism.
If anything what was more disappointing to me was that you took a complete U-Turn with that and try to fervently cover the early stuff up.
Let's be real here; playing an evil character isn't inherently bad. Playing an insane character isn't inherently bad. And Silas is right; the psychological issues a Capsuleer would face in this futuristic grimdark, cyberpunk setting would be a stretch from our own.
I think the more pressing issue is characters doing things that have no clear justification besides 'my character is insane' when the player obviously does not have a thorough understanding of the mental issues they're trying to scapegoat with.
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...a near total disregard for her own safety once in the pod.
Wait, that's a thing? I though that was par for the course, what with capsuleers being near impossible to kill off, ships being replaceable and crew being irrelevant, and all that.
You mean you hadn't noticed the incredible risk aversity that seems to have permeated capsuleer combat? :P
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Istvaan has the reputation of a suave and charming interstellar spymaster, yes, but on literally all occasions my characters have interacted with him in the flesh, he was high as a kite and doing his damned best to be the biggest class clown of all time. It was a bit of a let-down, for some.
An intentional effect. Why would a man who can have anything choose to be a cracked out ruin? Because he realizes everything he could have is meaningless, a complete and utter joke. Istvaan is basically behaving like the one guy who knows the world's ending. He knows that all the goals pursued by the other capsuleers are futile. He knows all their nations and stations and everything they fought for will be erased. So yes, drugs, whores, and priceless 800-year old Amarr cognac washed down with fruity Gallente mixers. Because in a little while, none of it will remain.
He used to care about his image a great deal. Now he's realized how utterly pointless that is, and it really doesn't matter if someone sees him pantsless in the end ;)
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So you admit that your post saying how 'everyone who interacts with Istvaan believes he is a suave...' etc was a complete misrepresentation, Isty? :P
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...a near total disregard for her own safety once in the pod.
Wait, that's a thing? I though that was par for the course, what with capsuleers being near impossible to kill off, ships being replaceable and crew being irrelevant, and all that.
You mean you hadn't noticed the incredible risk aversity that seems to have permeated capsuleer combat? :P
Sarcasm over the internet training progression: 0->1 10% complete...
Yeah, I know. Sadly. I am cursed with having lived in an age where it was not nearly this bad :bash:
Still, from an IC P.O.W, the risk aversity is an anomaly - everything is fleeting and utterly replaceable. BB often wonders about this, and not knowing how IRL people playing a game think, just chalks it all up to cowardice mostly. It's not improving his moods or world views much.
Hmm, maybe he will end up with some serious issues eventually.
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(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111010.gif)
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Haven't vivisected any tourists yet or etc.
You know, you're not the only one who has do deal with this:
I have serious anxiety problems . . . I worry that people get the wrong idea that I act out for the sake of being edgy or whatever
No, I 'act out' because I'm terrible at roleplay and a lot of bad ideas don't occur as such to me until after the fact. Not because I actually want to be RPing a psychopath, and it irks me that half the community seems gleefully quick to slap around mental illness as a form of ad hominem, and as 'proof' that nothing my character says is actually valid. It took a while to sort of 'get the feel' for the way I wanted to characterize Saede and yeah I did some derpy ass shit with her initially, but it would be cool if that one thing didn't get pulled up ever 10 minutes as 'proof of my badness' while ignoring everything else I try to do in favour of poking holes in my RP.
If you guys just want me to leave that badly, just say so.
People will always use everything they have at their disposal to win an argument or beat down an adversary. That's to be expected. Be it mental illness, past acts, various other ad hominems based on the organisation you serve, or even made up things.
If I had an advice to give when dealing with crazy transhumanist ideals or things like that, it's not to spill the beans directly at the first occasion. Over the 5-6 years I have played Lyn, nobody exactly knows what she really believes in. Just be evasive, give hints here and there, before being sure to have enough support to stand for what you believe in.
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So you admit that your post saying how 'everyone who interacts with Istvaan believes he is a suave...' etc was a complete misrepresentation, Isty? :P
Perhaps a past tense would have been apropos :p
In the end, old Istvaan is a sexier, deadlier version of me. I did pattern his mugshot after mine, rather well if I say so myself. In many ways, the character reflects my life. When he was forcibly thrust into the role of a megacorp CEO, I myself was working as a dental tech - a job I really hated, but made out well doing. When he did GHSC stuff, I was pursuing a journalism career - a more personal indulgence, than a concerted effort to build savings/a future. Nowadays, Istvaan doesn't do much except fuckloads of drugs and making an embarrassment of himself, whereas I myself am in a stage of life where I've said "fuck it" to the whole concept of work and earning, smoke tons of pot, and don't do much of anything else. Good ol' depression.
Much like with Istvaan, I see everything as a joke with no point or punchline these days.
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An intentional effect.
When I read this , I was like, "See, it was all an act so people would underestimate him.", but then I read the rest. I liked being wrong in this case, though.
On a side note: Do you like The Comedian (Watchmen)?
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Stecker is/has been a pretty terrible attempt at using some sci-fi-ish psychosis to justify a highly flippant and random character and because it was fun for me to play (there was probably some attention whoring in there too). Looking at it, it's not grounded in reality, it's hardly respectful to people who actually suffer from mental illnesses, and I'm not sure what kind of changes I'd have to make to make the character worth playing again.
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On a side note: Do you like The Comedian (Watchmen)?
I think I could drink with him.