Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Ollie on 03 Feb 2013, 21:22
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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2560040#post2560040
This is a very interesting in-character development within the ongoing thread detailing the recent Guristas/CPD focussed live event. I think the people behind characters chosen in the legal action are certainly some of the best that could have been selected in view of the RP response they'll likely give and the lack of, uhmm ... 'whine' factor (for want of better term) in all of them.
That said, I've seen 'law suits' attempted in other RP mediums in the past and while they always promise a lot of potential they quite often fail to live up to it for a number of reasons. My own being that what seems interesting at the start seems to get bogged down and somewhat dull the more it progresses. I think also sometimes there's a bit of hand-waving and reluctance to get over-involved with the RP out of concern that they'll 'lose' something of importance in the game through factors that are:
- Not supported (or at least not well-supported) by defined game mechanics
- Probably not well understood by non-lawyer types should the GM decide to go for too much legal drama detail (disclaimer: As anyone who has ever GM'd a game of anything knows, players are some of the best lawyers out there ;) )
I'm interested if anyone has been involved in similar RP situations in the past and what were the lessons or experiences taken from that.
To reiterate to Falcon or Eterne (or whoever's running it) I think this is a great idea and I'm certainly not holding up a urdoinitwrong placard. :cube:
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I do admit to have had a chuckle in the fact that Veikitamo gets sued and sent to CBT tribunal working for SuVee and then she gets sued and sent to CBT arbitration working for KK. :lol:
Maybe people just want to see her break out the pinstripe lawyer suit and skirt.
However, corporate law is a fundamental aspect of the Caldari State and it's certainly interesting to see it in action like this I think.
Also: "No comment at this time." appears to be a popular sentence in public for DUTY now.
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We sure are putting the dirty laundry out there on the line for everyone to look at. :roll:
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We sure are putting the dirty laundry out there on the line for everyone to look at. :roll:
Guristas aligned folks tend to do that.
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Quite the surprise, actually. But a pleasant one. Interested to see how it pans out. :lol:
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Should be fun.
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The odd bit about the EVE PF that there is no real indications of what different legal systems are and what are the different legal entities in the societies that live there.
For example there is no real information what the legal entity of Capsuleer entails.
What pros and what cons does it have?
How about the rights and the duties of citizens in the different factions?
Soldiers, small businesses, politicians, Holders, slaves, agents, employees, bureaucrats, traders, space ship captains, the list goes on and on.
What rights and duties do corporations have within the different legal entities of New Eden?
It's all a bit of a muddle and CCP has zero interest clearing it up.
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First, get rid of all the laywers. (Says the girl that wants her JD)
On a less humorous note: this is New Eden. If someone disagrees with another person, frigates at 50km. (you can go up from there. If anyone is going to have a titan dual, fraps and I'll make sure TMDC (insert plug here) posts it.)
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:bash: No, really, :bash:
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:bash: No, really, :bash:
I thought you hated the Dear Executor?
What's the problem if he just got sued personally over the actions of a "Kaalakiota Affiliate"? :D
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Definitely an interesting development. I am not quite getting your point here Dex?
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Awesomesauce
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Definitely an interesting development. I am not quite getting your point here Dex?
I am presuming that this is an unusual display of public laundry cleaning that doesn't fit with the Caldari motif. That is to say, non-Caldari are seeing the State deal with an issue that should be private. If that is true, then I can somewhat agree with the position. Conversely, the nature of most Live Events tend to warrant being public.
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Bleh, most factional blocs always prefer to keep their laundry cleaning private anyway, in the hope to prevent giving the enemy free ammo and let them see the internal in fighting.
And it's better that way, it becomes less tedious to know what's going on (unlike Arek Jalaan or the Sansha invasions that were monopolized by a few chosen players). There is still place for more private secret stuff happening.
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I thought you hated the Dear Executor?
What's the problem if he just got sued personally over the actions of a "Kaalakiota Affiliate"? :D
Dex Nederland disagrees with the concept of a single Executor for the State and it is not the idea that INTDA is filling suite against KK in the CBT that is frustrating him or me as his player.
Definitely an interesting development. I am not quite getting your point here Dex?
I am presuming that this is an unusual display of public laundry cleaning that doesn't fit with the Caldari motif. That is to say, non-Caldari are seeing the State deal with an issue that should be private. If that is true, then I can somewhat agree with the position. Conversely, the nature of most Live Events tend to warrant being public.
Dex Nederland already took what actions he could to reduce the airing of dirty laundry. He didn't do it publicly, but clearly too little too late in many respects. He/I relearned that lesson in the last IGS arc.
And it's better that way, it becomes less tedious to know what's going on (unlike Arek Jalaan or the Sansha invasions that were monopolized by a few chosen players). There is still place for more private secret stuff happening.
What is frustrating is that my attempts to pursue more private RP around this event have effectively been stonewalled at every turn. By more private, I mean not on IGS, Dex Nederland contacted numerous other capsuleers privately as a group to coordinate an effort. Various characters involved in Caldari RP were asked to do stuff. Sorry for the vagueness, but the "result" is not finalized as of yet.
Perhaps the responses Dex Nederland received are actually a symptom of the event's background not being vetted at this point and the legal case is being used to screen this back development by the Actor/Director.
In other words, I am frustrated and feel that the story-arc is monopolized at the moment by a few chosen players.
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In other words, you're jealous... It's a game about internet spaceships, not something serious like getting passed over for a promotion IRL.
As for those individuals, several of them have been very active in RP lately, especially in the Summit channel and from threads I've been watching on the boards. Conversely, I've seen basically zero of Dax. If you want more of the spotlight, make your character better known, otherwise don't cry when you get passed over for an event.
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Bleh, most factional blocs always prefer to keep their laundry cleaning private anyway, in the hope to prevent giving the enemy free ammo and let them see the internal in fighting.
And it's better that way, it becomes less tedious to know what's going on (unlike Arek Jalaan or the Sansha invasions that were monopolized by a few chosen players). There is still place for more private secret stuff happening.
Can you go into detail about the bolded part?
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Sakura Nihil has it exactly right.
We should be happy for our Caldari RPers involved in this arc; it seems interesting and good for them.
People need to chill our about the 'THIS EVENT IS BEING MONOPOLIZED BY A FEW PEOPLE' thing.
Every event and every arc is not going to involve everyone. There's a lot of factions, and lots of RPers for very small slices of those factions.
We all get our 5 minutes in the spotlight now and then; let's be happy for other people and let them enjoy theirs instead of bitter jealous rays.
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Heh, I'm staying faaaaaar away from this one. From my perspective, it looks like a promotion for the Guristas, and one not subtly implemented by a Guristas-affiliated pilot. Former pilot. Heh. And those do not typically end well for any Caldari RPers involved. On the other hand, if my character were a Gurista, I'd be all over this, so go to it. :)
I was sorta hoping that this would somehow end in the ousting of Heth, but that appears dim at the moment. Still, it springs eternal and all that.
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Heh, I'm staying faaaaaar away from this one. From my perspective, it looks like a promotion for the Guristas, and one not subtly implemented by a Guristas-affiliated pilot. Former pilot. Heh. And those do not typically end well for any Caldari RPers involved. On the other hand, if my character were a Gurista, I'd be all over this, so go to it. :)
I was sorta hoping that this would somehow end in the ousting of Heth, but that appears dim at the moment. Still, it springs eternal and all that.
Heth-Haan is not going to abdicate authority from the results of a lawsuit. They'll have to kill him.
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In other words, you're jealous... It's a game about internet spaceships, not something serious like getting passed over for a promotion IRL.
Am I jealous, however I am also happy that people I consider friends are having fun. We all spend time and effort on this shared hobby and put what time we can in and we all want it to be fun and not a second job.
As for those individuals, several of them have been very active in RP lately, especially in the Summit channel and from threads I've been watching on the boards. Conversely, I've seen basically zero of Dax. If you want more of the spotlight, make your character better known, otherwise don't cry when you get passed over for an event.
I was explaining my frustration at trying to participate and help others to participate via means other than IGS.
I was not looking for a spotlight - I took on a different role in response to the event and as the event moved along found myself filling a role I asked friends to fulfill (because the story forced a change in their role).
I should rephrase my position: the players did not monopolize the story-arc.
In my opinion, CCP's actors have created a mechanism in the story-arc (the legal case) that limits avenues for others to interact with the story.
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I see what you are saying, but I think its perfectly fine for things to occasionally be limiting and not have all that much room for other players.
We can't very well have all of the Caladari RPers participate in a legal case. Maybe it will lead to in space drama that more people can help or hinder?
Sometimes events are small and limited in scope (the Slave run EM just did), sometimes they are large and lots of people get shot (1st round of Sansha incursions). It's fun to have both styles in play, and to not have all events overlap in the same gameplay manor.
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In other words, you're jealous... It's a game about internet spaceships, not something serious like getting passed over for a promotion IRL.
As for those individuals, several of them have been very active in RP lately, especially in the Summit channel and from threads I've been watching on the boards. Conversely, I've seen basically zero of Dax. If you want more of the spotlight, make your character better known, otherwise don't cry when you get passed over for an event.
Being active in the summit had better not be the only criteria for getting selected for an RP arc.
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In other words, you're jealous... It's a game about internet spaceships, not something serious like getting passed over for a promotion IRL.
As for those individuals, several of them have been very active in RP lately, especially in the Summit channel and from threads I've been watching on the boards. Conversely, I've seen basically zero of Dax. If you want more of the spotlight, make your character better known, otherwise don't cry when you get passed over for an event.
Being active in the summit had better not be the only criteria for getting selected for an RP arc.
I'm pretty sure it's not. Unlike a lot of other RP from CCP in the past, I think Falcon and his cadre don't have their heads up their asses, and will do well in running these things. Count me in the "optimistic" camp for this one.
My only gripe is make some of these events US TZ, please! :cube:
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I would imagine that participating in Live Events, staying in contact with a dev actor via mail, and IGS posts are what gets CCP's notice.
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Would sound logical, yes Katrina.
As for this whole storyline, I must admit I'm quite intrigued to see where it leads. :)
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My only gripe is make some of these events US TZ, please! :cube:
Something other than euro would be awesome. :D
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My only gripe is make some of these events US TZ, please! :cube:
Something other than euro would be awesome. :D
Why does CCP hate Australia :cry:
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Thank you for your candidness dex, I appreciate it and now understand your pov much better. My part in this as Sol is unintentional, she has always aligned herself against the federation and Heth's regime has not been kind to her frayed sense of self restraint. Basically she is a rarely vocal attack dog and this litigation is likely to make her even less likely to speak publicly about her beliefs (bigoted as they are).
My only advice here is to approach the CEP rep for potentially sympathetic megacorp contacts. Ael has been trying to get in touch with the suvee rep (if one exists) but a lack of game time and the fact she is an immigrant have slowed her efforts. Her dedication to the state is without question in her mind, but Caldari probably dont see it that way and she isnt going to push the issue.
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Obviously I understand how it might be seen that a certain group of State Loyalist RPers are getting more than their fair share of attention right now, given the segue from the WHG dissolution into the Kaalakiota legal case.
On the other hand, given the path that the State is heading down, it makes sense that a group of extremely Loyalist Caldari would be picked for at least part of it.
I'm not suggesting that I'm any more deserving of Falcon's time than anybody else, but I have been fairly active in portraying myself as a poster-boy Loyalist - only a matter of time before I said something that got me burned, eh?
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I find it strange that it's the ones that didn't effectively get their character's and organization's reputations and metaphorical balls caught in the current CBT vice with absolutely no idea of how the dice will fall are the ones that are throwing stones at the whole affair. :roll:
Nothing at all prevents anyone here from seeking to generate their own RP, arcs, or content because there's factional reps open to be mailed by any player if they wish it, so the only limiting factor as I see it is an unwillingness to participate.
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I've no doubt the spotlight will swing elsewhere soon.
Me, I've been in the relative background of all this anyway -- just amused how Jevvles went from flying with a bunch of (sorta kinda former) Serpentis loyalists associated with illegal orbital bombardment to a bunch of (very vocal) State loyalists now also associated with illegal orbital bombardment.
balls caught in the current CBT vice
CBT
I laughed. Lots.
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Bleh, most factional blocs always prefer to keep their laundry cleaning private anyway, in the hope to prevent giving the enemy free ammo and let them see the internal in fighting.
And it's better that way, it becomes less tedious to know what's going on (unlike Arek Jalaan or the Sansha invasions that were monopolized by a few chosen players). There is still place for more private secret stuff happening.
Can you go into detail about the bolded part?
It is good to have a certain balance between the public part to make sure that every RPer can interact, and also good to remain open to players for interactions. And between the private part where dedicated players can go into more details and intrigue according to their specific RP.
In the Sansha Invasions in particular, almost the totality of the actors-players interaction was centered around Syne and Soter, for example.
AJ was more open though, but if you were not specifically involved in it, no news, nothing.
The crucial difference here is that we now have NPC contacts to at least bypass that issue a little.
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Thanks jev, the entire first aid training course now wonders what i am snorting with barely suppress laughter at during my lunch...
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I googled CBT and had no results that could explain the joke :/
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You probably had Safe Search on. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_and_ball_torture_(sexual_practice) . (Very very NSFW, if you couldn't guess from the link.)
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http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=anti-provist-rally-sparks-civil-unrest-on-malkalen-v
Well that's player driven content if iv ever seen it.
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You probably had Safe Search on. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_and_ball_torture_(sexual_practice) . (Very very NSFW, if you couldn't guess from the link.)
Oh right xD
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http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=anti-provist-rally-sparks-civil-unrest-on-malkalen-v
Well that's player driven content if iv ever seen it.
:eek: Open civil war, here we come...
More comments later, I am already late for my departure to work.
Edit: (Now at work)
Nothing at all prevents anyone here from seeking to generate their own RP, arcs, or content because there's factional reps open to be mailed by any player if they wish it, so the only limiting factor as I see it is an unwillingness to participate.
You have insight into what I have been trying to do.
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You probably had Safe Search on. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_and_ball_torture_(sexual_practice) . (Very very NSFW, if you couldn't guess from the link.)
Veikitamo doesn't always put metaphorical balls in the CBT vice but when she does, she always uses a stick of butter first.
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I must admit I liked the news a lot, specially if it is player driven. :)
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Bleh, most factional blocs always prefer to keep their laundry cleaning private anyway, in the hope to prevent giving the enemy free ammo and let them see the internal in fighting.
And it's better that way, it becomes less tedious to know what's going on (unlike Arek Jalaan or the Sansha invasions that were monopolized by a few chosen players). There is still place for more private secret stuff happening.
Can you go into detail about the bolded part?
It is good to have a certain balance between the public part to make sure that every RPer can interact, and also good to remain open to players for interactions. And between the private part where dedicated players can go into more details and intrigue according to their specific RP.
In the Sansha Invasions in particular, almost the totality of the actors-players interaction was centered around Syne and Soter, for example.
AJ was more open though, but if you were not specifically involved in it, no news, nothing.
The crucial difference here is that we now have NPC contacts to at least bypass that issue a little.
Ah, I see. I am almost entirely unfamiliar with the interaction difficulties of the Synean side. On the Sansha side we locked down into full paranoid mode to wrestle as much as an advantage over the intelligence war as we could. I'm not certain how many would-be Sansha feel the same about our approach as you do with Syne's.
But, back to the topic on hand...
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Syne did the same thing. It was perfectly understandable and logical ICly.
The issue came from the actors, not the players.
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http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=kaalakiota-corporation-victorious-as-slander-case-is-dismissed
Looks like the CPD just told the CBT: "Nope"
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I like when these events are grey on both sides.
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I really want to say when I first read some of these post:
WTF? Are you new?
Then I realize, yes actually, they are new and have no idea what happened 6+ years ago.
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I've no trouble believing you're more vet-y and knowledgeable than most of us, but it'd be a lot more helpful to try and educate the young'uns over just stating your superiority.
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This whole arc has given me such a RP boner I am actually reading all the RP forums again.
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I've no trouble believing you're more vet-y and knowledgeable than most of us, but it'd be a lot more helpful to try and educate the young'uns over just stating your superiority.
:sigh: This is what happens when I provide incomplete thoughts
Totally agree and please realize that I have tried to do that on IGS in the past few days.
But by the same token realize to a large extent I have already had very similar debates on IGS. The repetition of debates is something that frustrated me on IGS years ago and led me to stop putting much effort into posting there.
In some regards, I am trying desperately to avoid those debates today.
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Yup, I can understand that, the repetition of debates was one of the things that took me out of EVE three years ago.
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General question - anyone willing to put in the effort to attempt to chronicle the story arc on Evelopedia?
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It would certainly be great, and much better to do it now that links are easy to find and memories are fresh than out in time. And it can be very helpful for the "next generations" and for us to remember how things were (I did it for the Bleak lands campaigns previous to the FW invasion, for example). Still, I don't know all the details about the Caldari situation, so would be a bad chronicler, I'm afraid. :(
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So, I am trying at least produce a framework for the wiki project. I am trying to decide if each Live Event should end up with an independent page with summaries on the story arc page or just one large story arc page.
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I'd probably say one page, unless the individual parts look like they are going to be really big.
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You can take the pages on every year (YC 111, YC 112, etc) as a model as well. They are nice.
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General question - anyone willing to put in the effort to attempt to chronicle the story arc on Evelopedia?
One of Arek'Jaalan's wiki whores, reporting in. :lol:
If you need a hand with formatting stuff give me a shout - USTZ has meant I haven't been able to participate thus far.
Lyn's suggestion of using the "Year in Review" pages as a template is a good one. I'd also consider checking with Eterne or Falcon before getting too deep into it - it's possible they intend to document this stuff themselves.