Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Sakura Nihil on 07 May 2012, 18:16
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As someone who was engrossed in the oldschool La Maison bar scene and a few Revan parties, I've seen some really quality, really passionate and fun RP that hasn't quite been matched outside of a party here or there in the last few years.
I was having a chat tonight IC and a thought occurred to me - perhaps this is due to the environment of the bar itself, which seems as solid as a bartop itself. A "well stocked bar", "variety of seating", and "roaring fireplace" are all quite common elements, which apart from small invidiual flair leads to those active settings running together.
But, what about this - a seasonal, moving bar? Change scenes and locations monthly, for instance there could be a mountain top retreat with a large outdoor patio for one month, offering great views of a valley in a slightly chilly environment where a sweater is recommended. Another month could be a winter chalet surrounded by tall stands of trees, while another might be a beach side resort. By changing the environments on a regular basis while maintaining the same "bar", you require people that come by to change as well, creating a more engaging experience.
Thoughts? Input? Anyone ravished by the idea and endowed with great photoshop skills?
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The issue is always much much less the setting than having active conversation and participants at the location. People go where the good conversations and scenes are.
The 'always on' RP channels can get quite stale with 35 afk people in them. I think a more successful strategy might be for the 'bar' channels to host frequent 'events' every week or so, to give RPers a time and place to be and interact.
I've been meaning to bug Jade to reopen La Maison......
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After reading the article on baselining, I think that running a bar as an actual location on a planet is a bit problematic.
La Maison was a VR room, and I think that would work fine, and you could change the scenery anytime you felt like it, plus you could have people from all over the cluster show up if they felt like it, without having to worry about physical security.
Once it's VR, the location is less of a draw, and the people who go there are what make it attractive, or not.
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The 'always on' RP channels can get quite stale with 35 afk people in them. I think a more successful strategy might be for the 'bar' channels to host frequent 'events' every week or so, to give RPers a time and place to be and interact.
This. But the advantage of a moving bar wouldn't just be the change in scenery, but also providing various locations for various characters. Not everyone would travel everywhere, factions and allegiances and so on.
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What about a bar on a ship? If you can find the ship, you can find the bar.
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Des has a good point, that was one of the thoughts rattling around the head - I'd imagine a stopover in a place near Luminaire would draw a fair number of Gallente enthusiasts, as I'm sure a comparable visit elsewhere would draw loyalists and the like. It would help create some turnover in clientele with any luck, instead of getting to equilibrium and seeing/doing the same things again and again.
Only problem I can see is the IC safety aspect of it. I'm sure Sakura or those like her who are "CONCORD unfriendly" might be able to travel incognito by themselves in small numbers, but a gathering in a fixed spot might be tempting for the authorities from an IC perspective and thus spoil the party. Still, something that can be worked around, I would assume (I always ran with the "corrupt Gallente official" excuse as to why she could be a pirate but visit a highsec Gall bar, personally).
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Wasn't Misan Palta'ek's bar-in-a-Prowler semimobile?
Anyhow, yes, the idea is somewhat interesting. I'd actually be even more interested in a bar that would shift themes as it traveled physically, although the feasibility of repeated themes changes - both in terms of IC rapid interior shifts and OOC stress on writers having to repeatedly rewrite the description - could be called into question.
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My experiences IC and IRL about bars as social venues are probably the norm.
There won't be any intelligent intercourse there, just base banality.
It's sitting in someones kitchen after a good night out with a good buzz with the sun is creeping up when the real magic happens.
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I seem to remember a U'K bar in a carrier down in provi, but I think it IC always stayed in orbit at a single planet.
If I ever become rich and famous in EVE, I will put a bar in a supercarrier and jump it around low sec with a cloak on, sending out invites to whoever I like who is on to come to the bar.
But you could do this with any ship really. Jump into a system yell out in a local intel channel, or even local if you don't mid the UR DOIN IT WONG crowd, and invite people for a few hours. Then, when you're done, kick everyone from the channel and erase it, then set it up again later. For instance, you could have the channel named Good Ship Lollypop in Pator System one time, and Good Ship Lollypop in Amarr System the next. Just keep the MOTO copied on a note pad so you don't have to write it out ever time.
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I know Re-Aw/Jude has a bar on a rupture :)
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Drinker's Cathedral was an amarrian bar in the remains of an old carrier, derelict in space. Very old channel.
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You guys are thinking of bars as RPers. Try thinking of bars as bar patrons. What makes your favorite local bar your favorite? In order of relevance ascending, here are my important bar elements:
- Atmo. Includes how the staff relates to you, how fast the service is, how un-loud the music is (loud music is bad, very loud is worse) [this is why the Guiding Hand nightclub features very loud music] <the motivation behind the loud music is a 'method in madness' sort of deal>
- Feel. My favorite bar has nothing but attractive waitresses. Classily attractive, business-casual. It also attracts a clientele of well-dressed normal people who don't have whitey-dreads or smell funny or look like they want to pick a fight.
- Price. A place that charges you high for drinks will make you feel ripped off if you're poor, but it'll make you feel like a king if you have a fat wallet. A place that charges bottom prices is a good watering hole for grimy-grim types, but you won't really feel good about yourself being there.
I just came back from a (nonvirtual) bar so, yeah.
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You guys are thinking of bars as RPers. Try thinking of bars as bar patrons.
This.
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You guys are thinking of bars as RPers. Try thinking of bars as bar patrons. What makes your favorite local bar your favorite? In order of relevance ascending, here are my important bar elements:
- Atmo. Includes how the staff relates to you, how fast the service is, how un-loud the music is (loud music is bad, very loud is worse) [this is why the Guiding Hand nightclub features very loud music] <the motivation behind the loud music is a 'method in madness' sort of deal>
- Feel. My favorite bar has nothing but attractive waitresses. Classily attractive, business-casual. It also attracts a clientele of well-dressed normal people who don't have whitey-dreads or smell funny or look like they want to pick a fight.
- Price. A place that charges you high for drinks will make you feel ripped off if you're poor, but it'll make you feel like a king if you have a fat wallet. A place that charges bottom prices is a good watering hole for grimy-grim types, but you won't really feel good about yourself being there.
I just came back from a (nonvirtual) bar so, yeah.
I had never thought of this like this. You are sooo right. Man if I had read this thread over the weekend I would have had a lot more fun at The Last Gate when I stopped by, or at least made for a more immersive RP experience.
The problem is when players who are already in the bar, the gate specifically complain about it being quiet/not packed with people, when TLG for instance states in it's discription that it is always hopping, but just with baseliners more than Capsuleers.
It's had to RP that without coming off as the dreaded RPASS who says "ur doin it wrong!" :cry:
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Interesting thoughts here.
With (literally) two weeks of university left to me, and the imminent burst of available time after, I might go back and poke at my vague idea to set up a venue. I think there might be something to the idea of keeping it active by means of regular events. Not like there's a shortage of precedents around.
Of course, as someone recently remarked to me, there's no shortage of bar-type locales. There's a good reason for this ('you walk into a tavern' is a fine staple of DnD), but it's not particularly good as a way of distinguishing yourself.
Perhaps the answer, combining several thoughts here, is a Caprica-esque V-world. Visiting places by holo is pretty accepted practice, though I personally have always gone with the interbus option... I'm a little bit of a recluse sometimes, so I'm not sure how many pure VR environments are out there, but it does feel like it provides more options. Regular (weekly?) change in 'location' and theme, perhaps kicking off with some minor event to introduce the new phase, with regular (monthly?) larger ones just to keep awareness up... VR stuff also nicely solves the question of you piratical types having cope with law enforcement, no? I personally have never let it stop me going anywhere, but if you think about it...
Personally I have fond memories of being able to surf through the Gate, the Skyhook, the Keep and the Broken Piano depending on my mood, and being able to just slip into an exchange with someone. By all accounts, such practices are dying out somewhat.
Don't mind me, just thinking aloud.
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Wasn't Misan Palta'ek's bar-in-a-Prowler semimobile?
Technically. I never updated the location because the ship itself seemed to permanently live in TXW since I rarely made use of it (too busy with fleets, etc.).
As far as VR stuff goes, before I left Mata and I were working on a VR establishment of some sort. There was an emphasis on being able to shift the scenery/location frequently with that one. No idea what the status is now. vOv
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As far as VR stuff goes, before I left Mata and I were working on a VR establishment of some sort. There was an emphasis on being able to shift the scenery/location frequently with that one. No idea what the status is now. vOv
Oh, it's there, and the malleable, improv aspect is fun: the first person to say something about it gets to declare the setting for that scene. The fixed aspect is a red sofa, which might end up in a forest, high planetary orbit, a desert at night, an old-style Gallentean café, etc.
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Drinker's Cathedral was an amarrian bar in the remains of an old carrier, derelict in space. Very old channel.
I'm glad someone else brought it up so I didn't have to and feel like I was just talking about how awesome I used to be at RP :lol:
Honestly, the main problem with me visiting any of these bars is that my character wouldn't really be caught hanging around with pirates, heretics, and other weirdos. It was the reason I opened the DC in the first place, to create a place that down-to-earth folks could hang around.
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As far as VR stuff goes, before I left Mata and I were working on a VR establishment of some sort. There was an emphasis on being able to shift the scenery/location frequently with that one. No idea what the status is now. vOv
Oh, it's there, and the malleable, improv aspect is fun: the first person to say something about it gets to declare the setting for that scene. The fixed aspect is a red sofa, which might end up in a forest, high planetary orbit, a desert at night, an old-style Gallentean café, etc.
Cool, good to hear it's still around. :) Even if I were to come back soon I wouldn't be able to really "run" a place as my online time would be super limited, random, and sporadic.
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Not a fan of bars, really. It always ends up with me sitting foreveralone as a pair talk out some script they came up with, or two pairs try to out-talk each other.
(http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/paranoid-parrot.jpg)
Active RP bar? They're all alts.
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As far as VR stuff goes, before I left Mata and I were working on a VR establishment of some sort. There was an emphasis on being able to shift the scenery/location frequently with that one. No idea what the status is now. vOv
Oh, it's there, and the malleable, improv aspect is fun: the first person to say something about it gets to declare the setting for that scene. The fixed aspect is a red sofa, which might end up in a forest, high planetary orbit, a desert at night, an old-style Gallentean café, etc.
Cool, good to hear it's still around. :) Even if I were to come back soon I wouldn't be able to really "run" a place as my online time would be super limited, random, and sporadic.
I wrote a long response about Mata's (and my) history with La Maison De Tous Les Plaisirs; the creation, rise and fall of La Maison De Tous Les Peuples, and what I learnt from that; and the reasons the since-rebranded channel might stay in perpetual low-key beta. I then lost the response while thinking about whether I really wanted to post it.
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It is high time for La Maison to return.
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This idea has been rattling in my head for sometime. Not a corporation, but a chat channel as a gentlemens club.
Gentlemen's Club for Conversation.
Any gentleman deemed suitable may pay a deposit and become a member.
Members are entitled to have maximum of two guests at anytime.
Any moderator action needed to correct the behaviour of a member or guest thereof will also result in a fine to the gentlemans deposit.
Should membership so elect, dues can be gathered for organizing entertainment for the membership.
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Gentleman's club or "gentleman's club"?
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This idea has been rattling in my head for sometime. Not a corporation, but a chat channel as a gentlemens club.
Gentlemen's Club for Conversation.
Any gentleman deemed suitable may pay a deposit and become a member.
Members are entitled to have maximum of two guests at anytime.
Any moderator action needed to correct the behaviour of a member or guest thereof will also result in a fine to the gentlemans deposit.
Should membership so elect, dues can be gathered for organizing entertainment for the membership.
So much this. Set the bar high and make it exclusive, like 500m or something to become a member. Cigars and smoke-filled rooms and plotting, yes please
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Critical mass is... critical with something like this.
There's a Sebi version out there which is a cool venue, but rarely used. Combine exclusivity with different timezones and various people taking time out, and it's tricky retaining enough people to make it interesting.
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Critical mass is... critical with something like this.
ccc
When I first heard about (and started lurking in) LM it was a very dead channel. It took a long time, some work, and some luck to get regular activity in it. It does have the advantage of reputation to help it attract more random players, which a newer / unknown channel would not have the luxury of, but I suspect these days it isn't a huge advantage.
I was getting decent numbers of people for announced Mind Clash events in SH, but as far as I know (I'd love to hear about this not being the case, actually) it was never used for that purpose, or anything more typical bar-ish, outside of those scheduled events. Worth re-emphasizing what Mata said about the TZ and niche problems that you can run into with most channels. Incidentally the scheduling was my attempt to side-step the problem of TZs, it worked ~okay~, but it's a ton of work for the organizer(s).
I could ramble on more about channels and thoughts on channel building (way too much time reading about branding and marketing lately), but I'll save those :words: for another time. :P
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A good way to cut down on afk idle time is to only 'open' the channel during certain hours. Once a week, once a day, etc, so that people know a time and place to be to meet and discuss, and not lurk.
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Reppy and I spent a bit of time discussing his ideas for a venue like, last week or something. Going to start needling him about it after Silas' party thing this weekend, so maybe we'll have some details to share soonish? *crosses fingers*
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Reppy and I spent a bit of time discussing his ideas for a venue like, last week or something. Going to start needling him about it after Silas' party thing this weekend, so maybe we'll have some details to share soonish? *crosses fingers*
Just came out of my last uni exam ever (woo), so I'll actually have time for Eve stuff. Shock horror. But yes, this.
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After the Silas party (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=3199.0)
I am left with no other alternative but to think of two things.
1. Scheduling events works best for the biggest turnout, sort of a RP CTA.
2. "Open" all the time Bars need an understood ambiance.
IE - The Last Gate, if you actually bother reading the descriptions, that place is supposed to be a club after certain times and a restaurant-ish feel during other times. Problem being that if people are actively RPing in there, if they don't read the HTML descriptions, they might not know that. Feels a lot like ur doing it wrong RP to point out, that the bar is actually packed even if there is only 1-2 active capsuleers in it.
Honestly, I am not really sure how to fix that, unless descriptions in the MOTD, now much more viable, are clearly outlined. Links to pages of descriptions work as supplementary information, or full fleshing out of details, but the MOTD needs to focus on ambiance and location as well.
Even then it's not like a capsuleer can realistically have a conversation with baseliner at the bar and it be entertaining for the capsuleer, since essentially you will be playing both parts.