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EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => Player Driven Content => Topic started by: Kaleigh Doyle on 16 Aug 2011, 13:06
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So I'm thinking about starting a new religion in Eve. Preferably something cultish, elitist, and exclusive. Any suggestions on rituals, background, etc.?
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Looking to make a million bucks?
On a more serious note, that's a really interesting idea. My mind is now churning.
Good thing we're ahead of schedule.
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Depending on what you're going after....oh heck yeah do I have ideas for you.
Heh, be careful what you wish for though, you just might get it.
Eve-mail if you'd like to discuss options. Or gimme a shout here.
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Well, that depends, who do you want to piss off? What you just described is more or less every religion at some point in its history. But if you want something wild and crazy, I know people who know people, but you didn't get it from me, okay?
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Why not something with those Gallente gods and goddesses you made? Someone made a character who is a Federation Navy Chaplain and an ordained Daughter of Amaute.
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Religion based on science, worshiiping the calculating and exact laws of the universe. Maybe worshipping stars as angels or divine manifistations, and wormholes as demons. you could be against anyone who willingly travels through the "Maw of Demons", wardeccing WH corps.
Another sexualized and masochistic religion would piss off the Amarr I bet, while attracting some less than savory characters. Not a giant ERP festival, I mean, but rather one centric to hedonism maybe? Like Slaanesh? that's always fun
Or you could start a cult of the monocle. Just kidding.
Thing is you have to make it wild but fun, so it isn't Scientology in space... unless you want Scientology in space.
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There's already plenty of cults off of the Amarrian religion. (Being vocal, religious pricks tends to invoke that kind of response).
What would be neat if you can pull it off, is some sort of cult based on the Matari spirituality. Like, maybe the spirits aren't "good" or maybe the only way to please the spirits in your cult is hedonism? Maybe sacrifice? Not sure really, I'd need to put more time into it...but basing your cult on something not "cultified" already would keep it unique, no matter how similar it may be to another cult.
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Religion based on science, worshiiping the calculating and exact laws of the universe. Maybe worshipping stars as angels or divine manifistations, and wormholes as demons. you could be against anyone who willingly travels through the "Maw of Demons", wardeccing WH corps.
It already exists, its called the SoCT. :derp:
Ok no, not the second part. Not at all.
There's already plenty of cults off of the Amarrian religion. (Being vocal, religious pricks tends to invoke that kind of response).
What would be neat if you can pull it off, is some sort of cult based on the Matari spirituality. Like, maybe the spirits aren't "good" or maybe the only way to please the spirits in your cult is hedonism? Maybe sacrifice? Not sure really, I'd need to put more time into it...but basing your cult on something not "cultified" already would keep it unique, no matter how similar it may be to another cult.
Oh yeah, an Aztec cult ! Reinventing Tlaloc. Do eeet
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An evil sect and then convice all for mass sucide :twisted:
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I hear you can get to heaven thru wormholes. I bet you can get to hell that way too, even if the Amarrish don't believe in hell anymore.
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Religion based on science, worshiiping the calculating and exact laws of the universe. Maybe worshipping stars as angels or divine manifistations, and wormholes as demons. you could be against anyone who willingly travels through the "Maw of Demons", wardeccing WH corps.
You can make decent money that way if you're a little lucky. WH corps tend to be really smart - while they're in their hole. Once they hit hisec they tend to do really silly things like fly frieghters full of expensive loot to market while under an orphans wardeck.
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Like Slaanesh? that's always fun
Don't do this... the only thing I can't resist is temptation ;)
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So I have three concepts:
Cult of Aesthetics: Kaleigh was initially a rather staunch ultra-feminist (see: glamour bunnies) and connoisseur of the aesthetic (see: GLB beauty test) in the day, but kinda lost her way after forming a mega-conglomerate, getting mixed up in politics, and getting married twice. Now that she's kinda aimless, I had considered forming an exclusive society of aesthetically pleasing individuals and building a cult around the concept. Finding divine beauty in the physical, in one's behavior, in nature, and repelling ugliness wherever it may be found.
Machine Cult: Nola seems like a prime candidate for this role, but she's far too scientific to take a religious perspective on these matters. The machine cult would essentially hold the belief that man and machine were meant to be one, and that a great visionary (AI perhaps) would usher in this great new age of enlightenment.
Cult of Rebirth: X. Capsule pilots would use the cloning process as a method of washing one's sins away. A tattoo would be placed on the body after rebirth, to signify the mark of one's past lives. Also, helping others cleanse their sins would be a positive thing. ;)
I dunno, I'm just playing with ideas at this point.
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So I have three concepts:
Cult of Aesthetics: Kaleigh was initially a rather staunch ultra-feminist (see: glamour bunnies) and connoisseur of the aesthetic (see: GLB beauty test) in the day, but kinda lost her way after forming a mega-conglomerate, getting mixed up in politics, and getting married twice. Now that she's kinda aimless, I had considered forming an exclusive society of aesthetically pleasing individuals and building a cult around the concept. Finding divine beauty in the physical, in one's behavior, in nature, and repelling ugliness wherever it may be found.
Only if Kat can join!
Machine Cult: Nola seems like a prime candidate for this role, but she's far too scientific to take a religious perspective on these matters. The machine cult would essentially hold the belief that man and machine were meant to be one, and that a great visionary (AI perhaps) would usher in this great new age of enlightenment.
An AI leading a cult? Sounds like Fallout 3's President... whatever his name was. I like it!
Cult of Rebirth: X. Capsule pilots would use the cloning process as a method of washing one's sins away. A tattoo would be placed on the body after rebirth, to signify the mark of one's past lives. Also, helping others cleanse their sins would be a positive thing. ;)
Classic. I love it.
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Cult of Rebirth...huh...I might consider making an alt for that one.
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Cult of Rebirth...huh...I might consider making an alt for that one.
Might make for a good Amarr/Khanid splinter sect or even an Intaki thing.
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So I have three concepts:
Machine Cult: Nola seems like a prime candidate for this role, but she's far too scientific to take a religious perspective on these matters. The machine cult would essentially hold the belief that man and machine were meant to be one, and that a great visionary (AI perhaps) would usher in this great new age of enlightenment.
All glory to the Omnissiah! :lol:
Cult of Rebirth: X. Capsule pilots would use the cloning process as a method of washing one's sins away. A tattoo would be placed on the body after rebirth, to signify the mark of one's past lives. Also, helping others cleanse their sins would be a positive thing. ;)
I dunno, I'm just playing with ideas at this point.
Hmmm... interesting.
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If you are still looking for ideas, how about this one.
The Cult of Normal (need a better name): The worship of a normal person, either as themselves, or as the embodyment of some larger spirit/entity, etc. Said person is worshiped, given gifts to bring favor onto the capsuller, and of course kept in proper accomedations. Of course this person would have to stay in those accomedations, otherwise it might bring its favor to someone else. So one has to keep their person happy, or else make sure they never leave.
Though my favorite so far is the machine cult, as it has the possbility of having the prayer of last start, which involvings a chant, and then kicking the affected machine to get the bad spirits out of it.
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Gotta get those bad spirits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUUptX0i55g) out? :lol:
Anyway, I decided on the rebirth idea. I thought it might have the best potential, and I get to make a new character! \o/
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I'd be willing to make a character to help you start/form/play the Cult of Rebirth, Kaleigh. If you want some help or what not with writing up ideas or have any guidelines on it, let me know.
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Hrm. After some careful consideration (and cajoling from Raze) I have decided that I could use more PvP experience and an excuse to be a jerk without ruining the character of my main.
Sign me up. :3
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I have decided that I could use more PvP experience and an excuse to be a jerk without ruining the character of my main.
How do you think Vicky was born?
Careful, though. Alts have a nasty habit of evolving into mains when they hit a certain experience level.
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Horatius might be interested in a rebirth cult. Probably won't leave Kitzless, but he might definitely involve himself.
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So I settled on creating a Khanid character based on the Zealot Ancestry I read for them:
Ancestry: Zealots
The Khanid are not generally known to be as devout as the Amarrians, but those who are tend to be fanatics even by Amarrian standards. Religious Khanids are often inducted into zealous cults, generally based on their interpretation of the Scriptures. The Amarrians regard these religious Khanids with suspicious interest; on the one hand the cultists' extremism alarms them, but on the other their religious ferver often results in deep theosophical insights.
I greened the areas I found of particular interest.
Silly question, but is there a big book of scriptures (pdf format perhaps?) I can look at?
I definitely want to incorporate aspects of reincarnation into this cult as a means of cleansing ones sins. In other words, these cultists believe they are giving the people they kill a new chance to do the right thing. And people that are killed in this manner are given special prayer ceremony, and stuff like that. :D
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Other than the Scriptures page on evelopedia (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scriptures)... I don't know.
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You're going to hit the godflesh taboo head on there.
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Why not just be a straight up blood raider - and do some, you know, actual raiding?
We have a big lack there :| If it's just going to be IGS grandstanding without ingame backing up of said grandstanding I'm disapointed and will stop reading this thread. :(
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I'm not really interested in Blood Raiders.
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Why not just be a straight up blood raider - and do some, you know, actual raiding?
We have a big lack there :| If it's just going to be IGS grandstanding without ingame backing up of said grandstanding I'm disapointed and will stop reading this thread. :(
You know...you could at least give it a chance and let people do what they consider fun before judging it. Last I checked, this thread was for constructive ideas on a fresh idea for a new cult, not criticism of the current cults and how they are or are not falling into various players perspectives of how it should be done.
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Hmm... Stecker certainly wouldn't fit (someone terrified of death in a rebrith cult?) but she's hardly the only toon I've got and I kinda like the idea... I'll think about it and keep an eye on it.
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Quick thanks to Lyn for providing that link, it was very helpful. :o One point that kinda jumped out at me was this quote:
The gates of paradise will open for you one time only; woe to the soul who dares to knock twice."
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions 5:14
The way this cult would interpret reincarnation would be that when a body dies, the soul/spirit would be reborn in a new person, and continue this process until the soul has been fulfilled (intentionally vague there), then it meets the pearly gates of Heaven. So in essence, life is the trial and salvation from this cycle only comes when their souls achieve true understanding. The idea of releasing sinners, unbelievers, and heretics from the mortal coil would be to free them from their tormented state and give the soul another opportunity to redeem itself.
Also, the cloning concept would be understood to be a method of direct and controlled soul transference. It helps the devoted cultists achieve their goal and sacrifice much easier. :D
I read the Godflesh chronicle again, Lallara, to re-acquaint myself with the details. The big part I caught was the following exerpt:
Without breaking her gaze, Bethora got up and stood very close to the doctor. "You are not listening to me," she said in a quiet tone. "Or yourself. There is something you can do. A new body."
The doctor stared at her. Then he bubbled, "That's, no, that's unheard of. Amarr royal skin is absolutely sacred."
"Is yours?" Bethora said.
The implications here being that those of royal bloodline are too sacred to be cloned. I'll be sure not to kill any heirs!
From the reincarnation concept, the cult could conceive that the royal heirs, the Empress, and Khanid King serve another role as voices of God and will go to the gates of paradise when they die.
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I like the idea.
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If the whole religious experience and path is very personal, then as a building block for a society this would not work.
You are not connected in any way to others, just to your reincarnation cycle where you level up when you get more karmic experience points.
Of course the way around that is to make the tasks that give you karmic experience points something that would bind a group of people together, but thats cheating.
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Two things.
On the excerpt. Am I only one reading the question as a possible threat?
Second. How closely is the inheritance tracked. And since it is possible for a house to be elevated to the council..
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Hey,
Just because the cult is based on text of the Scripture doesn't mean that it has to be compatible with Amarrian orthodoxy or to be some heterodox, but acceptable cult.
There's always the option of being heretic. :) So, I wouldn't really mind the Godflesh-doctrine that much. Also, the doctrine of sacred flesh says that the felsh of the royals is sacred - not that cloning it is abomination, the latter is 'merely' an interpretation of what the former means. (See Amarr succession: "Since the Amarrians believe royal flesh to be sacred, cloning it is seen as blasphemy and therefore strictly forbidden.") So, the ban of cloning seems to be more alike to a church rule. There's some space there to maneuver.
I would see such a kind of cult as being entirely possible, especially if you don't insist on it being non-heretic in Amarrian eyes...
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So, the ban of cloning seems to be more alike to a church rule.
There's some space there to maneuver.
When the culture and the society is defined by the church, no there is not.
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Amarr Empire =/= Spanish Inquisition.
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When you have racism as such an integral part of the religion then the purity of the bloodline/flesh is quite a central concept that you have to work with.
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Also, please keep in mind that the character involved in this is going to be of Khanid origin. The region and ethnic group, that is. The Khanid seem to be more embracing of external cultural influences; do we know anything about their background and how they differ from the Empire culturally? (other than they steal gallente slaves and work with Caldari)
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There is very little outside of the char creation process.
It seems that they do accept their lesser status in the Amarrian religion for not being True Amarr and do not mind being the agents between the other lesser races and the True Amarrians. (Most of the trade between the other Empires is funneled to the Amarrian one through the Khanid Kingdom.)
There is never given the reason why they were so easily Reclaimed on Athra, only the reason for the Ni-Kunni being able to adjust to their servitude in the Empire has been explained and that is by stating that their original religion was pretty much the same that the Amarrians were selling, perhaps this is the case when it comes to the Khanid.
The strange thing is that there is no Khanid saints in the PF at all, there are Ni-Kunni ones and even Ammatar ones, but I have not come across any Khanid ones. Perhaps they are just so hellbent on destruction that following a path to salvation that gives it to them through battle is fine to them, and always has been.
Also, just the fact that the Khanid deal with the external cultures does not mean that they do not feel that their own culture is much more superior than the one that they are dealing with, hence the natural cross pollination of cultures between peers does not necessarily happen.
Of course the character is yours and the choices that it does as well, so pretty much everything here is just practice for the smack that you will receive on IGS.
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Oh. Well, I really don't have any intention of posting on the Summit.
Also, from what I read on the character creator was the Khanid people were never enslaved, but integrated into Amarrian society. You could interpret the wording on that, but from my thinking they were never enslaved. It also mentions how they were revered in Amarrian society and generally a pretty gung ho people. But really, I am curious more about the Khanid since the King took his own slice of heaven and parted from the Empire. How religious was his empire to begin with and has anything changed since then? What's been going on since then?!
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You're as much in the dark as the rest of the playerbase.
All we have is extrapolation from little tidbits of information through the same avenues that logic follows in real life.
There has been some events in the Kingdom, I think Arderich took part in them.
Most of the stuff is in this thread. (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=534154)
You are absolutely right about the 'special' nature of Khanid as being the only race that has not been enslaved by the Amarrians in the Reclaiming. You can see some of the Khanid stuff on former threads here, can't be arsed to dig them up, where we did circle around the nature of the Kingdom. How religious it was or how religious it wasn't.
Do remember that the Tetrimon hid in the Kingdom (and still probably does) which may give a certain kind of perspective on the mentality of the Kingdom.
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I don't agree to the slightest that racism has a central part of Amarrian religion: It certainly has that in their culture, but even slavery doesn't stop at the racial borders. One should make the mistake here and confuse consequence and cause. It doesn't seem to me that Amarrians are racist because of their religion, but rather that they use their religion in racist ways, because they're racists. Anyway, racism isn't reslly the big theme of the Amarr, I think. People just make it so because they fancy playing along the lines of the Third Reich.
Also, even in the middle ages within the Christian clerus itself while you were staying in the church state, there was room to maneuver in/around different questions. In their terms the sacredness of flesh would be a doctrine, while the resulting ban of cloning would 'merely' be a church rule. Giving you room with the latter. And this is especially true if your had some weird cults, there.
And as this is about such a weird cult, I think that Kaleigh has some room to maneuver. If she'd want to play along the lines of traditional Amarrian orthodoxy, there'd be no need for a cult in the first place.
And while the background doesn't say much about the religiosity in the Khanid Empire, I think it had been stated somewhere that Khanid didn't accept the TC's authority to be greater than his in religious questions. I think that implies a similar situation as with the English crown and the catholic church: English king doesn't accept the papal authority - result wasn't that you suddenly had a bunch of pagans and atheists in the British kingdom, but the Anglican church, with the King of England as the (formal) head of it.
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I really like how you relate the Anglican Church with the King's secession from the Empire, Nico. Although it presents a new challenge; without a clear understanding of the difference between the orthodox Amarr religion and khanid, making a cult might be more difficult.
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I found an interesting tidbit of information from the Khanid chronicle that I overlooked before:
Many other notable differences can be seen between the kingdom and the empire - the Dark Amarrians embrace technology, including cloning, much more willingly than the Amarr brethrens and even if most Amarrian traditions and customs still exist within the kingdom, they’ve been modified so that Dark Amarrian society is much more dynamic and robust than that of the Amarr Empire.
If anything, Khanid interpretations of cloning and technology are much less strict than traditional Amarrians. Hence why one of the major backgrounds for the Khanid ethnic group is the Cyberknight, or a heavily technologically augmented individual. So in retrospect, I think picking a Khanid was a good choice.
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It certainly was. I think King Khanid - while he'd still be embracing the doctrine of sacred flesh - wouldn't exactly interpret this the way that therefore you've to ban cloning. ;)
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Sacred Flesh doctrine applies to the upper levels of Amarr society, because, as Chosen and Righteous and all that, they're held to a Higher Standard than lower persons.
There are also very good reasons to frown at and prohibit cloning amongst persons of power.
The Mad Emperor for example. One of my/Kat's thoughts about that was that he may have had clones or was preparing some, such that he would be an immortal emperor, which would be greatly inconvenient.
So when he's disposed of, the Church interpret scripture and set things in motion such that that sort of thing cannot happen again. Saint Articus for example: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2491&tid=2
prohibiting cloning prevents malcontent/undesirable persons in power from coming back again and again.
Cloning for lesser persons is allowed, because they do not have as great a Duty and all that.
There's a few examples about it in the PF, people up to minor Holders have some form of clone. There's a chronicle, and also there's a thing ingame in the lvl1 epic arc.
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1. The Tetrimon, it's leaders, it's scriptures, it's CORE, were all destroyed by an Amarr Navy Dread Fleet led by Jonas Takrima.
I was there. Trust me. It's quite dead.
2. Kaleigh, I wish you luck, as long as this religion is based on an external 'thing' and not on the glorification of a single person. Because that has been done. And you know quite well how it went. I don't wish that on you at all.
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1. The Tetrimon, it's leaders, it's scriptures, it's CORE, were all destroyed by an Amarr Navy Dread Fleet led by Jonas Takrima.
I was there. Trust me. It's quite dead.
Like Jamyl ? :D
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I would actually be quite interested in this, as I do have a Khanid character who is currently somewhat lacking in direction. Is the cult idea still in the works? and who should I be looking to talk to about it in-game? :D
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I found an interesting tidbit of information from the Khanid chronicle that I overlooked before:
Many other notable differences can be seen between the kingdom and the empire - the Dark Amarrians embrace technology, including cloning, much more willingly than the Amarr brethrens and even if most Amarrian traditions and customs still exist within the kingdom, they’ve been modified so that Dark Amarrian society is much more dynamic and robust than that of the Amarr Empire.
If anything, Khanid interpretations of cloning and technology are much less strict than traditional Amarrians. Hence why one of the major backgrounds for the Khanid ethnic group is the Cyberknight, or a heavily technologically augmented individual. So in retrospect, I think picking a Khanid was a good choice.
I'm not sure the Cyberknight sub-culture is specific to the kingdom. Rather I think it is an outgrowth of the Khanid racial (as opposed to House Khanid) tradition of serving as military.
It's not as though every Khanid in the entire empire would've followed the house into exile after all.
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I'm sure you could make an argument either way. Personally, I'd say its more of a cultural difference between the kingdom and the Empire, as the empire seems to have this thing with self-mutilation.
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I haven't much time to explore this project lately, mostly thanks to a hurricane and Deus Ex. I made a character but still working on the details. Feel free to run with any of the ideas here in the meantime.
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imho.. the godflesh taboo is yesterday's news...
The emperess being a clone and all that.... :P
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I think the loyalists of the psychic zombie bitch queen refer to her returning as a miracle.
Hence she was not cloned, but resurrected by the divine power of God.
Do not mistake baseline people or capsuleers to be characters from the PF.
They do not work with the same set of rules.
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It could be interesting to create a religion around yourself by declaring yourself a prophet/visionary. Even a God, or avatar thereof. Even if you can't get other capsuleers to worship you, you could still RP that your crews do.
I know you said that you aren't into it. But I'll say this because it might give someone else an idea. What Laerise suggested does sound like a lot of fun. We've seen plenty of Blood Raider RP'ers fresh out of the academy that write essays and boasts on the IGS, but then hide in starbases or never log back on when they inevitably get the first wardecs. Every time that happens I let out a sigh of disappointment because so much potential for the type of fun RP I like is lost. There aren't many factions that hate eachother as bitterly as the Blood Raiders and the Amarrians.
Many/most of the Amarrian RP'ers I know tend to be the type of person that probably built sandcastles as a kid. Many are industrialists, ideal targets to small raiding forces. If I had the play time to make it work I'd personally enjoy having a small group of marauding Blood Raiders. Even if it didn't leave a spectacular mark on New Eden. I hope the next one to try will be more discrete at first when members are few, and show us the "Raider" in "Blood Raider" again!
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Timecube transcends one day god. Evil oneists are educated stupid. All space has four corner opposite pole rotation space.
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Does anyone recall what the latest resolution with the Order of St Tetrimon was? There's a fine cult if there ever was one. Last I recall they were still hiding out in the Khanid Kingdom for the last few hundred years, and I believe they actually 'welcomed' Jamyl home?
Hmm.
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They were completely eradicated.
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lallara do you have links to the relevant news articles? I vaguely remember something but I'd like to see what the 'official' turn of events was.....
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They were completely eradicated.
When did this happen? They were around as recently as Jamyl taking power.
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I got the impression that they were eradicated completely when the storyline that they were a part of was scrapped back in the day.
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I think I recall a few AURORA events that had some pilots tracking them down in the Kingdom or something to that effect, but they did release a 'congratulations' to Jamyl when she took the throne, making me think they are still skulking about in the Kingdom. Wanted to do some more research on them, was contemplating giving them some attention.
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I am working on some background for this cult. I'll give some solid details when I have everything fleshed out, but I will say that I have the character made and a corp established now.