Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 23 Jun 2011, 20:00
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536126
Latest development. FW is shit, we did our best, and I'm not surprised IPI/I-RED don't want to participate in the mechanic, but hey-ho. I will say there is still stupendously epic (and extremely challenging) fights to be had in FW plexes. No station to redock at, no gate to jump through, no escape.
It can be said to be a metagame of DUST 514, which infers a ground war on Intaki, but it's really not a stretch in-character to say "Hm, the Caldari are occupying the system and are probably going to invade the planet", as happened with other Gallente worlds. It's more of a "rally the troops", and "paint the Caldari militia as black as possible". There has always been a difficult Gallente hard platform to go off of, and invading Caldari has never been a better platform.
Anyway, I can't really see how it goes as, as 6 hours from now, I'll be gone to Norway with the RN. Will be interested to see what I come back to.
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(http://oddees.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/wpid-picard1.jpg)
I'm explaining these things to you OOC, because I know it's not just an IC propaganda thing for you.
- No Caldari Navy were ever in Intaki
- The Intaki Assembly's message was addressed only to the FDU, and it's contents were a request to stop shooting the Mordu's Legion and unarmed Ishukone civilians and was not a request to a ceasefire between the two militias.
- The Auction was about business rights, not selling of conquered assets.
- Damar is not a FC
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536126
Latest development. FW is shit, we did our best, and I'm not surprised IPI/I-RED don't want to participate in the mechanic, but hey-ho. I will say there is still stupendously epic (and extremely challenging) fights to be had in FW plexes. No station to redock at, no gate to jump through, no escape.
I-RED fights the Caldari Militia daily in Intaki, they are one of the main reasons I have to buy a new ship everyday (Damar engaging our pilots while blue was awesome.). While it is not helping the Gallente Militia (Being Ishukone aligned probably wont ever see us trying to secure sites on either side.) we do have our hands full as well since the Protectorate hates us about as much as the Gallente.
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[mod]Tread carefully and don't go pear shaped. [/mod]
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To clarify, are you (IC) calling on us to support the FDU militarily against the STPRO forces?
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Mammal - IC, sorta kinda yes, but OOC, as I pointed out here, it's a bleh mechanic so I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't want to :)
Hamish -
- No Caldari Navy were ever in Intaki
Every single PF resource points them out to be Caldari Navy (here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3097&tid=6), here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3277&tid=4), here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3346&tid=5), here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3610&tid=4), and here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3514&tid=11)) including the fact that they are the same NPCs that appear in pirate missions as "Caldari Navy". They have the tags and so forth. I'm afraid you're going to have to point out where it says they are NOT Caldari Navy? The consensus is there.
- The Intaki Assembly's message was addressed only to the FDU, and it's contents were a request to stop shooting the Mordu's Legion and unarmed Ishukone civilians and was not a request to a ceasefire between the two militias.
Mm, yes. Although the ILF have spun it as a general ceasefire back in January, I figured I'd follow that route.
- The Auction was about business rights, not selling of conquered assets.
Well, from a timeline written by CCP Ginger (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC111_December)..."State Executor Tibus Heth emphasised that 'any attempt to intrude upon the sovereign territory of the Caldari State will be met with an immediate nd overwhelming response.' This was seen as a warning that Roden's campaign promises regarding recovery of Caldari Prime and the occupied Gallente systems. Certainly, Heth's use of the term 'sovereign territory' indicated very clearly the Caldari attitude to both Caldari Prime and the territories they had gained in the State Protectorate offensive"
- Damar is not a FC
The fact he can assemble pilots to outnumber us is more than both IC and OOC grounds to label him as a "commander", though we never said FC. A leader certainly, mm, a "tactical commander" at least.
Anyway, this time around it may be more interesting. The first time, there was little detail about how Intaki was controlled. It took the occupation and liberation to reveal how the Intaki system has authority over its own interests, and the Ishukone/Mordu both negotiated with the Assembly for peaceful franchise, as opposed to strongarming themselves in. With that in mind, it may produce a different result this time.
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Mammal - IC, sorta kinda yes, but OOC, as I pointed out here, it's a bleh mechanic so I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't want to :)
Yeah, that's cool. The mechanic probably wouldn't end up being a deciding factor in our involvement. The only way we would get involved would be for RP reasons. Whether we want to take that step remains to be seen.
Mm, yes. Although the ILF have spun it as a general ceasefire back in January, I figured I'd follow that route.
This is true in all fairness, and we continue to spin it this way. We don't want militia in Intaki, not of any sort. IC of course. OOC, I love you all.
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- No Caldari Navy were ever in Intaki
Every single PF resource points them out to be Caldari Navy (here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3097&tid=6), here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3277&tid=4), here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3346&tid=5), here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3610&tid=4), and here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3514&tid=11)) including the fact that they are the same NPCs that appear in pirate missions as "Caldari Navy". They have the tags and so forth. I'm afraid you're going to have to point out where it says they are NOT Caldari Navy? The consensus is there.
Multiple players have done so before for you and you refuse to accept the logic presented. Why should they continue to do so?
At the end of the day, every Caldari character can say, "The Feds just don't get it. They can't tell the difference between Caldari Navy, State Protectorate, Home Guard, Ishukone Watch, Peace Corps, etc ship or squadron. They will believe whatever their precious Scope tells them and can't think outside their own self-inflated world view."
- The Auction was about business rights, not selling of conquered assets.
Well, from a timeline written by CCP Ginger (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC111_December)..."State Executor Tibus Heth emphasised that 'any attempt to intrude upon the sovereign territory of the Caldari State will be met with an immediate nd overwhelming response.' This was seen as a warning that Roden's campaign promises regarding recovery of Caldari Prime and the occupied Gallente systems. Certainly, Heth's use of the term 'sovereign territory' indicated very clearly the Caldari attitude to both Caldari Prime and the territories they had gained in the State Protectorate offensive"
And we can disagree with CCP Ginger's interpretation of presented news article. Caldari Prime is one thing, while FW occupied territory may be another. An attack on Caldari Prime is likely to result in a DD being used in high-sec. We have seen the result of the intrusion on the occupied territory. I argue that the CONCORD militia act does not allow the territory to change sovreignty (because it does not :o).
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Well hold on, if you choose to disagree with a CCP employee, then that basically sets the precedent that you can pick-and-choose whatever piece of fiction you want that conforms to your view of the EVE world, believing some and ignoring others that may contradict it. I'm sure the CONCORD militia act doesn't allow this either (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=27-07-09), but it's pretty clear that CCP are taking the limited war between the Gallente and Caldari to another level. Ground warfare, allegedly, also takes place between the empires "off-screen".
Take a rookie player. He joins Factional Warfare on any side, and sees NPCs in Caldari plexes. He notices that these NPCs carry Caldari Navy tags, and are the same to appear in Pirate or enemy faction missions that are against the Caldari Navy. He will come to the conclusion "These are Caldari Navy vessels". Fishing out some obscure PF reference that doesn't even directly state it to tell him he's wrong doesn't seem reasonable, as hard evidence is before him that tells him otherwise. There are also numerous news items and so forth that refer to the Federation Navy as present, so the logic is simple enough; the capsuleers lead the charge, and the faction navies follow in their wake as an occupying force.
I mean, it's CCP's material versus player interpretation. It's not exactly criminal to go with the former. It can't be expected to adhere to the logic of a couple of Caldari RPers when the game itself (and CCP's fiction leaders) have a completely different story to tell.
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Just wanted to say, if you haven't been in FREEINTAKI lately, you've missed out on some really good RP.
I know EVE is supposed to be going to hell in a handcart, but I'm having some of he most fun I've had in a long time with Seri.
After sitting in silence and reading my Eve mails, I made one comment in FREEINTAKI and bam, it was almost two hours of RP. Of course, having Damar in the channel made it really interesting.
Fun times, no monocle required.
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Well hold on, if you choose to disagree with a CCP employee, then that basically sets the precedent that you can pick-and-choose whatever piece of fiction you want that conforms to your view of the EVE world, believing some and ignoring others that may contradict it.
Andreus has already suggested that.
But more importantly - original Scope article (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3610&tid=4).
And other than CCP Ginger being the only one to put anything on an unmoderated page, there is nothing else to say it is "clear" what Heth meant. It begs the question, is the timeline an IC source and what role is CCP Ginger assuming there.
I'm sure the CONCORD militia act doesn't allow this either (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=27-07-09), but it's pretty clear that CCP are taking the limited war between the Gallente and Caldari to another level. Ground warfare, allegedly, also takes place between the empires "off-screen".
Go search the text and find one reference to "Caldari Navy" or "Caldari Army" or even "State Protectorate"; there isn't one. Those might be Home Guard, Peace & Order Corps or any other Caldari paramilitary organization's troops. The story does not distinguish who they are.
Take a rookie player. He joins Factional Warfare on any side, and sees NPCs in Caldari plexes. He notices that these NPCs carry Caldari Navy tags, and are the same to appear in Pirate or enemy faction missions that are against the Caldari Navy. He will come to the conclusion "These are Caldari Navy vessels". Fishing out some obscure PF reference that doesn't even directly state it to tell him he's wrong doesn't seem reasonable, as hard evidence is before him that tells him otherwise. There are also numerous news items and so forth that refer to the Federation Navy as present, so the logic is simple enough; the capsuleers lead the charge, and the faction navies follow in their wake as an occupying force.
You are right, he will think "these must be Caldari Navy vessels" based on the presence of Caldari Navy tags. I am tired of :bash:, so I will go play in my corner of the sandbox and not bother with you unless you decide to kick over my sand castles.
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Dex, what you must understand is that this situation is about as liquid and untangible as the Caldari Prime genocide claims; the PF and other relevant sources aimed at the issue is so broad any argument can be raised from it and any player will jump on any conclusion that benefits them.
Seriphyn wants to think all State military forces involved in FW are Navy elements and not a newly raised militia force? Let him. You will have to deal with that just as Fed. RP'ers will have to deal with the 'you want(ed) us all dead and Caldari Prime bombings prove this' argument. In reality there is not one thing proving any argument truer than the next either IC or OOC.
Fucking annoying, yes, but a fact we have to deal with.
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You are right, he will think "these must be Caldari Navy vessels" based on the presence of Caldari Navy tags. I am tired of :bash:, so I will go play in my corner of the sandbox and not bother with you unless you decide to kick over my sand castles.
This is my stance as well, accept there is zero chance of you kicking over my sand castle. Or Dex's really.
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Is this a case of the Caldari Navy being portrayed as "bad guys" and "tyrannical invaders" instead of "heroic defenders against the meddling Gallente"? Because there's not going to be any difference if they are Caldari Navy or Home Guard, as they're both still State military. I mean, there's also a set of news item that refers to the Gallentean FW NPCs as Federation Navy, so I'd be unsurprised if the reverse also applies. Other than you two (Dex and Hamish), the general consensus amongst FWers is that the NPCs represent the factional navies. Lvl1 storyline missions that sent players to lowsec Fislipesnes against the NOH occupation explicitly have NPCs prefixed with "Nugoeihuvi".
If I made a mistake, I retract it, but from this end, it appears as if you don't like the idea of the Caldari Navy being portrayed as aggressors and invaders. This is a war, and the shades of grey are everywhere. At least they don't rape prisoners-of-war (http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=30980) like those evil Gallente, right? ;) I mean, I could say "Actually, as 'Gallente' is not an ethnic term, they are actually of Caldari origin that became Federation citizens", but we all know that would be pushing it quite a bit.
It's not really a case of kicking people's sandcastles over, but following what CCP says. Sure, it might offend my perception of the Gallente that they treat prisoners poorly (at least, far outside Federation borders), but I've got to HTFU and accept that as apart of the reality, the same way there are Caldari Navy vessels participating in FW, and the same way there are Federation Navy, Republic Fleet and Imperial Navy warship doing the same.
EDIT - What you're basically saying is that the news items are not reliable sources of prime fiction, and that the Scope ("the most reliable news service in the world") is lying, as is the Caldari Providence Directorate in the quote "However, the CPD makes it clear that no additional national resources are to be allocated to protect mega-corporate activities from Federation militia counterattacks "unless directed as part of strategic Caldari naval operations in the vicinity."". Are the Provists lying then?
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It is not about the Caldari Navy being the "bad guys" or "tyrannical invaders."
A core concept about the Caldari Navy in my opinion is (underline mine):
The Caldari Navy is smaller in personnel and total ships than both the Federation Navy and the Amarr Navy, yet they have more battleships than any other fleet and the average age of the Caldari ships is considerably less.
A disproportional number of battleships and smaller size indicates to me the Caldari Navy does not serve the same roles as the Federation Navy. The Caldari Navy is not geared to hold space. Its doctrine does not involve long patrols along the borders. Its forces are not committed to light action or even lightly committed to large actions. The Caldari Navy is committed when a Corporate PMC is being overwhelmed and more than one Corporation's assets are at risk.
The Corporate PMCs hold space / defend property. The Corporate PMCs defend or do not defend their AoRs.
The Caldari Navy has another role; centralized command system of State, CEP operations. But it cannot do large undertakings (like invading Luminaire, defending Black Rise, or occupying capture space) on its own. It must rely on the PMCs and corporations to secure and defend space once the Caldari Navy (with support) has defeated the bulk of the enemy's Navy.
The State's navy, the factional navy of the State, consist of no fewer than 11 different NPC corporations. These include the Caldari Navy, 8 Megacorporate Security Corporations, Mordu's Legion, and the State Protectorate.
Lvl1 storyline missions that sent players to lowsec Fislipesnes against the NOH occupation explicitly have NPCs prefixed with "Nugoeihuvi".
I know, I have some from the Caldari cosmos. I picked them up working for Lai Dai. If NOH wants to keep an operation from the other megacorporations, it is unlikely to operate using outdated Caldari Navy "tags".
What you're basically saying is that the news items are not reliable sources of prime fiction, and that the Scope ("the most reliable news service in the world") is lying, as is the Caldari Providence Directorate in the quote "However, the CPD makes it clear that no additional national resources are to be allocated to protect mega-corporate activities from Federation militia counterattacks "unless directed as part of strategic Caldari naval operations in the vicinity."". Are the Provists lying then?
You are trying to get me to commit to a position that all the Scope says is a lie - it isn't - and therefore the quote from the CPD is also a lie. It is open to interpretation just like reporting from CNN, BBC, or Al-Jazeera.
We are saying that the Scope can be played as having a Gallente-aligned bias. It throws the 11 corporations all in one bucket because its writers & readers are not particularly familiar with the concept of coalition warfare.
Also, it would seem that quote, supports my above position with the Caldari Navy being a national resource.
However, the CPD makes it clear that no additional national resources are to be allocated to protect mega-corporate activities from Federation militia counterattacks "unless directed as part of strategic Caldari naval operations in the vicinity."
I have once again tried to impart my opinion and frame of reference :bash:. If you take nothing else away from this post, take the bold sentence.
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Why people can't just have fun in the game without getting all butt-hurt talking about it is beyond me.
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Why people can't just have fun in the game without getting all butt-hurt talking about it is beyond me.
I have plenty of fun in the game. Most of the time I have little to no interaction with many players' characters in the game. The place we interact IC is IGS most often and most of the time we aren't actually interacting, but rather trying to convince those not taking part in the conversation of our message.
The problem arises that many of us have delved into the world's fiction and come to conclusions that a cursory review does not provide.
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Why people can't just have fun in the game without getting all butt-hurt talking about it is beyond me.
Because the same people ignore the same in-depth conversational points about the same topics.
Did anyone who signed up for a Caldari character look through their lore and such and think they were going to be playing an "evil" character from a tyrannical civilization?
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Well, from a timeline written by CCP Ginger[/url (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC111_December)
Having observed CCP, and CCP's publishing of PF being a specific interest of mine, for almost eight years I have come to the conclusion there the is not a PF bible. I believe that CCP ginger has the exact same access to PF that you and I do.
The quotes below provide insight into the general culture of CCP, and while some will certainly disagree with me, I am of the opinion that the senior management of CCP cares very little about the nuances of the back-story. I am of the opinion that it’s maintenance is regulated to very junior staff who show interest in such things and even then only as collateral duty. I believe that it is the lowest possible priority at CCP and as such the problems in communication, documentation and guidance will be expressed most strongly in it.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Games-Reviews-E159347.htm
Communication and knowledge sharing is a disaster, there is little or no documentation for older areas of development and documentation is still considered optional by many. There are multiple braking points in communication
CCP struggles severely with internal and external communications. The senior management preaches corporate values which are unfortunately never reflected in actions...It is simply not possible to have a good balance between communication at the coffee machine and a proper paper trail to make sure that things actually get understood and acted on.
This is highlighted by less than capable management with poor communication skills.
The lack of communication and transparency can be quite frustrating...There exists no employee handbook or procedural handbook to help codify the systems of all three offices.
Factional warfare was not created to enhance the back-story, it was created to enhance the PVP experience of new players and they tied it into the pre-existing LP system which used Navy tags as currency. Rather than rework the entire LP system, the programmers just had the new NPCs drop Navy tags. This is at odds with the news articles that stated very clearly that Navy personnel would not be involved in the Faction war. The reason for this error is because communication at CCP is poor and because consistency in PF is the lowest of any priority at the company.
this a case of the Caldari Navy being portrayed as "bad guys" and "tyrannical invaders"…it appears as if you don't like the idea of the Caldari Navy being portrayed as aggressors and invaders.
This presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are bad guys or tyrannical invaders, which is a fallacy to start with.
To counter your ad hominem attack on our argument ( which makes me question my sanity for attempting discourse with you yet again); What this is really about is two players who have developed their characters around the nuances within the Caldari state attempting to explain these nuances and our frustration at your campaign to obscure them.
Not that any of this matters anyhow. The PF changes with every new junior staffer assigned to throw something up for the next feature.
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This presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are bad guys or tyrannical invaders, which is a fallacy to start with.
:bash:
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This presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are bad guys or tyrannical invaders, which is a fallacy to start with.
:bash:
Is it really that frustrating that not everyone agrees with the one interpretation you've developed? :roll:
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Both Hamish and Dex make quite some sense here.
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I rember from the Caldari epic arc that in the mission where you liberate the Caldari POWs each of the prisons are tagged with one of the Caldari mega corporations and a single are tagged as containing Caldari Navy personel.
At least the Caldari Navy is conducting enough business in the war zones to have their people getting caught by the Gallente once in while.
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This presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are bad guys or tyrannical invaders, which is a fallacy to start with.
:bash:
Is it really that frustrating that not everyone agrees with the one interpretation you've developed? :roll:
IMHO his annoyance with the above is likely that it appears Hamish makes a mistake; he summarises that Seri claims the State FW NPC's *are* "bad guys or tyrannical invaders" - he did not. Seri presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are PORTRAYED AS bad guys or tyrannical invaders with their occupation of Federation space, not that they were by default. The FN is in a simmilar light when they hold State space taken by the FDU.
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I rember from the Caldari epic arc that in the mission where you liberate the Caldari POWs each of the prisons are tagged with one of the Caldari mega corporations and a single are tagged as containing Caldari Navy personel.
At least the Caldari Navy is conducting enough business in the war zones to have their people getting caught by the Gallente once in while.
I do not have problem with the Caldari Navy having a presence in the warzones; they have stations in Black Rise. In my above description they would necessarily have a part to play - coordination and reaction. But the Caldari Navy is not alone in the effort to defend Black Rise & the Citadel.
If a FDU pilot is plexing in Black Rise, the opposing ships could be Caldari Navy, State Protectorate, Home Guard, Lai Dai Protection Service, or Wirykomi Peace Corps.
Do they drop Caldari Navy tags? Yes, but
Factional warfare was not created to enhance the back-story, it was created to enhance the PVP experience of new players and they tied it into the pre-existing LP system which used Navy tags as currency. Rather than rework the entire LP system, the programmers just had the new NPCs drop Navy tags.
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Re: IGS post
I love it. Any RP stuff going on in and around where we are flying about is welcome fun. 8)
Re: CalNavy in Intaki
I just chalk it up to an inconsistency in programming and leave it up to individual interpretation. If you follow the Blind Auction chronicle's logic, it should only be Mordu's Legion in Intaki in any military capacity.
Also, by showing FDU pilots that they are battling enemy Navy ships instead of enemy Militia ships goes against the PF around FW, does it not? My understanding has always been that the Militia's are the only ones 'legally' condoned to fight each other by Concord (nullsec and war decs excluded). Then again, other NPC stuff (e.g. missions) doesn't fit into the 'player experience' perfectly, so there you go.
Re: Possibility of an invasion.
Again looking back at Blind Auction, you'd think there was a no-soldiers agreement in place at least for the Caldari, since Mordu's is the 'muscle' making the deal work. But, then again, who knows what lengths Heth would go to? ;)
To sum it up:
I think we can all agree that PF inconsistencies or hazy information can be frustrating. Heck, my RP panties are still in a bit of a bunch over our difference in interpretation with STPRO over piracy, war rights, etc. However! It can also be a source of fun - just last night, after a scrum with STPRO, all our guys are having a great time, and one of the STPRO guys posts in local, "wow epic fight, good one!"... was nice to see that it was good times for all.
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Re: IGS post
I love it. Any RP stuff going on in and around where we are flying about is welcome fun. 8)
I too am enjoying this immensly. I never have been much of an IGS poster, but this is pretty fun.
Would like to point out though that while I may be giving you guys a hard time IC. I have nothing but respect OOC. ILF and I-RED were two places I looked at as possible homes for Simca before I settled on the militia.
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EDIT - What you're basically saying is that the news items are not reliable sources of prime fiction, and that the Scope ("the most reliable news service in the world") is lying, as is the Caldari Providence Directorate in the quote "However, the CPD makes it clear that no additional national resources are to be allocated to protect mega-corporate activities from Federation militia counterattacks "unless directed as part of strategic Caldari naval operations in the vicinity."". Are the Provists lying then?
Keep in mind that even though Scope articles have been been the best window to the EVE world outside of the game itself, they are still news article. Some news stories can be cold, hard fact. Others, the sources in the articles are making point of view distortions or flat out lying. Then there's the possibility the reporter has their own agenda and adapts the article to fit their world view.
The contradictions in EVE PF are compounded by this, making it impossible for the player to figure out what is and what is not. There is an answer because there can only be one actual truth, but I don't think anyone (even CCP employees) know it 100%. When they finish that PF publication Tony G was talking about months back, we can rezero a lot more. Maybe not totally agree, but have a much better idea as that will be the superior knowledge source.
Until then, this all painfully reminds me of nuclear plant drill briefs on my ship that went on for 3-4 hours a day. There was always something in the mountainous amount of references that raised the possibility what we were about to do was wrong. I didn't like sitting through those, and some of the arguing here is just like the circular arguments I'd hear ad nauseam.
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Since my last post got gestapo-ified.
Is this an event that involves discharging ammunition into the ship hulls of other players in space or does it merely entail emoting and talking in local chat?
(that better?)
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http://combat.ishukone-raata.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=16052
Ammo into hulls. For I-RED at least =P
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Bless.
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Trust me John dies alot "For the State"
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Is this an event that involves discharging ammunition into the ship hulls of other players in space or does it merely entail emoting and talking in local chat?
I don't understand why some people feel these have to be mutually exclusive. Pew Pew with no context is like sex with no orgasm: It's stimulating but not very satisfying.
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Is this an event that involves discharging ammunition into the ship hulls of other players in space or does it merely entail emoting and talking in local chat?
I don't understand why some people feel these have to be mutually exclusive. Pew Pew with no context is like sex with no orgasm: It's stimulating but not very satisfying.
Because my recent experiences with PvP events more often than not involved cloaked ships claiming to do something that had some sort of impact while sitting cloaked.
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Trust me John dies alot "For the State"
^^ True... alot. btw love the sig ;)
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I don't understand why some people feel these have to be mutually exclusive. Pew Pew with no context is like sex with no orgasm: It's stimulating but not very satisfying.
After my first fleet fight, I felt embarrassed and inadequate. Exactly like sex. I've also felt giddy and dizzy after amazing fleet fights. Again, just like sex.
On another note, Incursion in Intaki. That should be fun.
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I don't understand why some people feel these have to be mutually exclusive. Pew Pew with no context is like sex with no orgasm: It's stimulating but not very satisfying.
After my first fleet fight, I felt embarrassed and inadequate. Exactly like sex. I've also felt giddy and dizzy after amazing fleet fights. Again, just like sex.
On another note, Incursion in Intaki. That should be fun.
Yep, and the first time you lead a bigger group into pew pew and blast your load, you feel pretty boss. Just like group sex.