Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: gallentegirl on 02 May 2011, 15:59
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I keep seeing wierd abbreviations used in Gallente RP, it seems like it's based on French, so I figured I'd post this little chart of forms of address in French to help.
M. = Monsieur : Sir / plural: MM. = Messieurs
Mme = Madame : Madam / plural: Mmes = Mesdames
Mlle = Mademoiselle : Miss / plural: Mlles = Mesdemoiselles
Hope this helps, hasn't been posted before and I hope this is the right place on the forums. If not then just beat me with the noob stick... though I'll probably like it.
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Speaking only for myself (well, ICly anyway), I call everyone "Pilot <Surname>" until I'm comfortable enough to use their first names or a nickname. I know that the Gallente RP community seems to favor the "space French" concept, but I personally prefer not to be so explicit about it. Also, since my character (Iurnan Mileghere) is a Gallente citizen raised in part by his Minmatar immigrant mother, it makes sense to me that he might have slightly different mannerisms than others.
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I never used those when speaking to others. I always assume it is generally used by haughty luminaire types that are conscious of their status.
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if you're a rude caldari, address them as "Oppressor"
if you're a rude minmatar, address them as "Meddler"
if you're a rude amarr, address them as "Deviant"
:)
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I think using the French language adds an interesting twist to a futuristic, hi-tech society based around democracy, corporations and automation (or whatever). People go "surrendermonkeys" as a reaction to French, but the Gallente are far from that.
It gives me an idea however. How about making a Gallentean language based off of Western European languages? There could be more than one. And using the NPC and ship names, there are a few foundations to go from. The Gallentean fighter "Firbolg" is Celtic. I don't know if it would appear alien enough to appear attractive though, unlike Intaki or Caldari, or maybe just because I'm not a linguist.
For example, instead of just using Monsieur, and the abbreviation, create something similar but not so explicit. I literally have no idea what to type in its replacement. Monseer? :S
The RP community is adamant about saying "it's the future, lots have changed since their original routes" but are happy to do the Gallente=French thing. Consider France now, then consider France in 8000 when they settled...they are going to include...
French, British, German, Dutch, Danes, Belgians, Italians, Swiss.......
Seriously, it's not like "French are French". Pulling out British influences is hardly going to be a stretch.
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I'm certainly not downplaying anyone who wants to treat the Gallente as "space French", though personally I think that (just like a lot of other things) danger lies in oversimplification. As Silver frequently and correctly notes, "it's a big cluster".
And my personal avoidance doesn't have anything to do with the unfortunate characterization of the real French as "cheese-eating surrender monkeys", a stereotype to which I don't subscribe. I just like a slightly different texture, so to speak, and I also assume that the language translators (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=apr02) should cover all those sorts of things for me.
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When RPing my Gallente characters I generally use the above honourifics.
Mammal, however, just refers to everyone by their first name.
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F1
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F1
L-O-L
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It's worth noting that in the modern day, there are 17 million people of French origin living in the United States, 7 million in Argentina and 6 million in the UK. Likely overanalyzing it, when CCP first made it, I'm pretty sure they meant "French" adamantly, but there's no reason to not bend it.
Making a Gallentean language though, it would be so close to a Latin-based language of today that it might be pointless wasting the effort on it.
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Personally I'd be more interested in seeing differences in social customs of cultures rather than language.
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/thread
:lol:
I don't use these much on Morwen, to be honest - though the usual exception is when she wants to be snarky towards those "haughty luminaire types that are conscious of their status" as Kaleigh put it. Or when she's attempting to at least appear polite to those she views as being those same types. (Sorry Ammentio! :oops:)
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if you're a rude caldari, address them as "Oppressor"
if you're a rude minmatar, address them as "Meddler"
if you're a rude amarr, address them as "Deviant"
:)
LOL
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On makeshift Romance languages, there's always the western conlangs / international auxiliary languages, most notably Interlingua and Ido (possibly Esperanto, which is very near to Ido - Occidental/Interlingue would be the hipster choice).
Interlingua (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua)
...in Interlingua (http://ia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua)
Occidental (http://ie.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingue)
(Admitted, Interlingua's use of senior/seniora for "mister" and "missus" isn't exactly French-sounding.)
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Keeping to honorific titles like monsieur/madame/mademoiselle is quite fine for me, much like the amarrians have sir/lord, caldari have haan/haani, etc.
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Greetings Targets!
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I keep seeing wierd abbreviations used in Gallente RP, it seems like it's based on French, so I figured I'd post this little chart of forms of address in French to help.
M. = Monsieur : Sir / plural: MM. = Messieurs
Mme = Madame : Madam / plural: Mmes = Mesdames
Mlle = Mademoiselle : Miss / plural: Mlles = Mesdemoiselles
This chart will be very useful, there's no doubt about that. So far I've been employing Msr. (http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/570356/merci-beaucoup-msr-sarkozy.thtml) or Mssr. for Monsieur, because with simple "M. Colcer" A. Colcer might think that I'm addressing one of his numerous cousins. The double s comes probably from analogy to the double l in Mlle. Anyhow, now when you pointed it out, the IC misunderstanding potential of the shorter acronym is very attractive, and probably offers more RP avenues than the long version, with the additional benefit of being faster to write.
Usually the official, original Gallente language has been provided for me by the google translate tool, but I certainly wouldn't mind if players who have more expertise in linguistics would come up with some principles or suggestions on how to do it better.
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Well if you need french advices, I am a native.
By the way the chart adressed above is correct. Msr. does not exist to my knowledge.
I woud also suggest using www.wordreference.com (http://www.wordreference.com), way more accurate and rich than google (but it is not a text translator). Though it is sadly not going to help in grammar, which is probably a nightmare for a neophyte.
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While using French titles in addressing Gallente characters makes fine sense, I would rather see a new set of titles dreamed up that is EVE-specific, like the Raata titles used by the Caldari.
For example, 'monsieur' literally means 'my lord', which I think is a bit archaic for a progressive society like the Gallentean one. I would expect popular titles to be re-inventions of the historic titles that reflect a liberal democracy, such as citoyen, monégal, etc. Even something like copain or collègue in a less formal setting.
I leave it to the Francophones to mess around with the language.
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So how do these IC language projects (and speaking alternate languages in-pod) view things like language translators (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=apr02)?
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So how do these IC language projects (and speaking alternate languages in-pod) view things like language translators (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=apr02)?
At the 100% risk of quoting myself...
Vieve Tisserand got out of bed, picked up Jake Farrow's white dress shirt from the floor, and slopped it on, fastening its front until she got to the sticky note she'd applied last night. She tugged that off and carried it into the bathroom. The house lighting accompanied her, dimming behind her and brightening in advance of her steps.
She slapped the note to the wall beneath the pair of small ceramic hooks mounted beside the sink. The thin square of film, red when it had been attached to the shirt and transparent in Vieve's hand, turned dark blue to contrast with the pale yellow tiles. Its gold Achuran glyphs, now silver, blinked at her.
Hisayo-haani, please no have wash shirt.
Vieve tapped the lower right corner of the note. "Update. Text only." The text cleared, leaving a tiny blinking line. "Caldari."
She smiled at it when she slipped her engagement ring off and hung it on one of the two hooks. "Hope you had a good day at work, sweetheart."
The text spread across the note in a reasonable approximation of her words, or at least a near-decade of schooling in the language suggested they were reasonable. The Achuran she damn well knew was pidgin.
Vieve tapped the note's corner again, and the blinking stopped.
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Vieve Tisserand got out of bed, picked up Jake Farrow's white dress shirt from the floor, and slopped it on, fastening its front until she got to the sticky note she'd applied last night. She tugged that off and carried it into the bathroom. The house lighting accompanied her, dimming behind her and brightening in advance of her steps.
She slapped the note to the wall beneath the pair of small ceramic hooks mounted beside the sink. The thin square of film, red when it had been attached to the shirt and transparent in Vieve's hand, turned dark blue to contrast with the pale yellow tiles. Its gold Achuran glyphs, now silver, blinked at her.
Hisayo-haani, please no have wash shirt.
Vieve tapped the lower right corner of the note. "Update. Text only." The text cleared, leaving a tiny blinking line. "Caldari."
She smiled at it when she slipped her engagement ring off and hung it on one of the two hooks. "Hope you had a good day at work, sweetheart."
The text spread across the note in a reasonable approximation of her words, or at least a near-decade of schooling in the language suggested they were reasonable. The Achuran she damn well knew was pidgin.
Vieve tapped the note's corner again, and the blinking stopped.
I loved this. Machine translation (any translation, really) brings a lot of interesting problems into focus: What do you do about proper nouns? Idioms? Grammar differences that affect the sorts of sentences that can actually be constructed?
I've toyed with the proper noun issue to explain my poor choice of a Japanese name for Shin. She's a member of a pocket culture who speak a language otherwise only found among a minority of Tierijevi which Ly'sol and I worked out as a Polynesian language. To explain her name, I decided that the only good translation software for this language is Achuran (making the common assumption that Achurans are based on the Japanese in the same way that Gallenteans are based on the French). Since some of the phonemes of her language don't exist in Achuran, the translation software would have to "Achur-ize" them to make them pronounceable to Achurans.
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There is probably still local cultural customs that has to be followed so that everyone is politically correct and whatnot.
Like the old noble families of the Gallente monarchies, the Reborn spiritual leaders etc.
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/me will happily continue to hack "ancient Gallentean" in her interactions with Gallente.
I note that while the variations and contractions might be annoying if someone would prefer to see Gallente titles handled according to modern French, they're quite appropriate in terms of either historic English or language variation over time and place.
What I do find little strange is the idea that Gallentean language might have retained or redeveloped gendered honorifics (different for women and men), and marriageabilty-marker honorifics (different for unmarried and married) in normal use. While I can imagine all sorts of forms of address being adopted while someone is specifically interacting in a highly-sexualised culture of flirting/courtship/hook-ups, in general and official use I wonder about:
- not having honorifics at all (the Icelandic approach: use the given name), or
- using a generic term that translates as "freeperson", or
- having titles based on whether on not a person is eligible to vote (maybe something in the "citizen" line, but with more flair).
Given the Gallente emphasis on the individual as opposed to the dynasty or clan I wouldn't be surprised if the primary form of address was the given name, even if honorifics were used, so we might see a more stylish version of "Citizen Tristan" rather than "Monsieur Broussard".
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Limp-wristed cheese-eating surrender monkeys!
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While using French titles in addressing Gallente characters makes fine sense, I would rather see a new set of titles dreamed up that is EVE-specific, like the Raata titles used by the Caldari.
For example, 'monsieur' literally means 'my lord', which I think is a bit archaic for a progressive society like the Gallentean one. I would expect popular titles to be re-inventions of the historic titles that reflect a liberal democracy, such as citoyen, monégal, etc. Even something like copain or collègue in a less formal setting.
I leave it to the Francophones to mess around with the language.
Citoyen is a nice idea, it sounds quite well. Though 'copain' sounds weird, a little childish. You usually use this word to speak of the boyfriend of someone (or girlfriend in the case of 'copine') : son copain, sa copine. I would rather use "mon pote" (in "hey, mon pote"). Very familiar, can be translated into "mate" or "buddy", especially "pal".
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While using French titles in addressing Gallente characters makes fine sense, I would rather see a new set of titles dreamed up that is EVE-specific, like the Raata titles used by the Caldari.
For example, 'monsieur' literally means 'my lord', which I think is a bit archaic for a progressive society like the Gallentean one. I would expect popular titles to be re-inventions of the historic titles that reflect a liberal democracy, such as citoyen, monégal, etc. Even something like copain or collègue in a less formal setting.
I leave it to the Francophones to mess around with the language.
Citoyen is a nice idea, it sounds quite well. Though 'copain' sounds weird, a little childish. You usually use this word to speak of the boyfriend of someone (or girlfriend in the case of 'copine') : son copain, sa copine. I would rather use "mon pote" (in "hey, mon pote"). Very familiar, can be translated into "mate" or "buddy", especially "pal".
I have used Monsieur and Madmoiselle for a long time, and althought it seems wrong in every way, it was a tool in chat to express i was using "Gallentean" terms, which of course the translator expressed as these 2 words.
However i would very much like to have other alternatives, but we need to take into account that "modern" Gallentean language would have originated around the Garoun era....and that WAS a monarchy, so Monsieur (as my lord), doesnt seem so far fetched.