Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 29 Apr 2011, 16:36
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So, obviously, it's the future, and things have developed...it is a safe bet that the Gallenteans likely have something that resembles the Latin alphabet at least, while Caldari may have that Napaani script that the players have scribbled amongst each other (possibly like in this chronart (http://www.eveonline.com/bitmaps/img/weekly/TheMercenaries01.jpg)) and then the Amarrians might have an Arabic sort of typeset (like in this chronart (http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/chronicle/img/SignsOfFaith.jpg)). Very rough anyway.
That aside, I was thinking what the Minmatar might have? Do they have one language, or seven languages for each "distinct civilization"? I came across these things in-game, visible on a Minmatar Service Station and Fighter-Bomber.
(http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/Seriphyn/minmatarscript.png?t=1304116485)
What do people bet?
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:roll: Please. Everbody knows Minmatar can neither read nor write.
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But seriously, I'd say it's something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_alphabet).
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I heavily doubt that any of the empires has a single language, honestly. Each one might end up adopting a particular form as the 'general' language (the State bastardising the old Raata language to form Napanii, for example, if memory serves), but that there'd just be the one in each empire seems kinda unlikely given their scale. At a guess -- and this is nothing more than conjecture -- that the various distinct tribes would have a linguistic group to themselves, which would vary internally into whatever dialectal forms evolved. Then, of course, the assorted hybridisations or entirely new constructs that might emerge with time.
Those two pictures seem to suggest a vaguely runic or ideographic system, though? I've no idea where you've gotten the likelihood of the Gallenteans having a Latin-style alphabet from, though.
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Seri, do you have a source on the Gallente use of a Latin alphabet?
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Why wouldn't they, and what basis would they use otherwise? Numerous sources have them speaking French outright (Chasing Shadows, The Science of Never Again), so they likely have some distant, derivative version of it...
Mm...making a futuristic Latin alphabet sounds like an interesting project. Anyway, topic is on the Minmatar script, with what we see on those two in-game objects being the only display of an in-game script.
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Worth noting that the Bestower hull used to have Latin letters on it, and I don't believe it was the only Amarr ship to have this either.
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Worth noting that the Bestower hull used to have Latin letters on it, and I don't believe it was the only Amarr ship to have this either.
It used to have greek letters on it, and I'm pretty certain it was the only one with them.
Unless I'm mistaken though there are plenty of ships, stations and other in-game assets that have English words or latin alphabet signage on them. That doesn't mean they can be taken as PF sources for use of English or modern glyphs.
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It used to have greek letters on it, and I'm pretty certain it was the only one with them.
Yeah, Greek. (http://evepics.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/epoldbestower.png) Capital psi, sigma (backwards, for some reason) and theta -- 'ps', 's' and 'th' sounds, more or less.
Unless I'm mistaken though there are plenty of ships, stations and other in-game assets that have English words or latin alphabet signage on them. That doesn't mean they can be taken as PF sources for use of English or modern glyphs.
I'm almost certain that I docked at a Caldari station design that had a Latin character sequence on the hull, so I suppose this has some merit, yeah.
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There's good chances of there being multiple scripts used by Matari. One Rune style script that's mostly used in symbolic and traditional events/occasions, while a more 'normal' alphabet would be the general use script between the various tribes.
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Education system determines the script and the language.
Not the people.
The Minmatar have the Amarrian influence, being utilitarian in nature, you know.
State probably has the Gallente script, you know, been part of the Federation.
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I wonder if the Minmatar might not have a bit of a mess on their hands. I could imagine a scenario in which the teaching of Amarr (spoken and the alphabet) was discouraged or outright banned, but it may be the primary language for many new returnees - plus they might be actively recreating or researching languages from before the DoD (possibly along tribal lines, maybe lower down than that, like at the level of larger clans).
So you might end up with, for example, newly returned kids who don't speak or write a word of 'Minmatar' (or the local version thereof) stuck in schools that only teach and teach in that language.
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I wonder if the Minmatar might not have a bit of a mess on their hands. I could imagine a scenario in which the teaching of Amarr (spoken and the alphabet) was discouraged or outright banned, but it may be the primary language for many new returnees - plus they might be actively recreating or researching languages from before the DoD (possibly along tribal lines, maybe lower down than that, like at the level of larger clans).
So you might end up with, for example, newly returned kids who don't speak or write a word of 'Minmatar' (or the local version thereof) stuck in schools that only teach and teach in that language.
I sort of agree, although I suspect that there will be quite a few Amarrian words that are standard use. Probably insults.
My imagining of the returnee process involves quite a lot of trying to teach them Matari language (or one of them, whichever is local) and that the teachers have at least some Amarrian.
I also think there will be a large Gallente influence, with a lot of Minmatar living in the Federation, or returning from there, or foreign workers sending funds home to the clan. Again, probably single words or phrases used for things that Matari doesn't have exact translations for, or that the Gallente holos make popular because the cool actors use them.
"Hasta la Vista" is pretty understood in New Zealand, despite no history of Spanish use here, and I blame Terminator two.
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I'm thinking that in many cases, it might be a political issue. Teachers being forbidden to teach using Amarrian (outside of classes where they are specifically teaching children who speak that language to speak local Minmatar - which is very little help in, say, history class). 'Preserving culture' etc.
We've had all kinds of political kerfluffle here in Southern California over Spanish in schools, and we were never, you know. Enslaved by Mexico.
Obviously in the case of adults, where the main thing they are being taught is the language, it might be different - and it also might be different if the education system for returnees is explicitly separate from the 'regular' system.
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We've had all kinds of political kerfluffle here in Southern California over Spanish in schools, and we were never, you know. Enslaved by Mexico.
But the defacto offical language of Liberia is English (although there are about 30 local languages), and they do have a significant proportion of the population descended from slaves. I do thought experiments about Liberia as a sanity check for Matari stuff - not because I think it Minmatar be exactly like Liberians, but because it's on the range of possibility.
I don't really understand all the issues with Spanish in schools in California, but I suspect that it's complicated politics stuff. It might be generalisable to Matari stuff, but I really don't know.
Actually, on reflection, it might be more generalisable than Liberia, since Liberia isn't really worried about being invaded by the US, whereas California might have reason to worry about incoming Mexicans. *shrug* I really don't know enough about it.
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Well, where I see the major parallel would be the idea of cultural influence through language.
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California used to be Spanish?
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California, used to be Spanish, then it was part of Mexico, then its own Republic, and then a state in the US. Kinda fun reading actually.
On the topic, I could see just about every language in the cluster being spoken by some group in the Republic. A better example might be the native american tribes after contact with the european powers. Each tribe probably had their own language, and they might have developed a trade language if the other tribes around them had something radically different. When the europeans (Amarrians and Gallente) came they picked up those languages through necessity (due to slavery or cooperation). Later, when the Republic was around, I am sure there was some attempt at a common tongue and if history is any indicator that attempt probably failed to gain any real hold (see Esperanto IRL). And now with a return to the tribes, all the individual languages are probably coming back, though there is probably a specilized common tongue that is used in certain work groups and such (like ASD Simplified Technical English being used in the aerospace industry).
So all that to say that you could make any pictographic style a Minmatar tongue, just not a major one.
Also, I know that Ravens and I think some other Caldari ships had English style letters and numbers on them, but I haven't looked at a one in game recently.
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I think we need to come up with a Matari language to go along with Napaanii and Amarrad
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Talk to the old U'K folk, they have some race specific non-translatable by the neocomm terms somewhere.
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Talk to the old U'K folk, they have some race specific non-translatable by the neocomm terms somewhere.
Interesting point! Why doesn't my NEOCOM translate all those Caldari greetings and insults that seem to go around? It confused the hell out of me the first few times I went to some Caldari channels :P
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This is digressing a bit from the thread.
There is pretty much a few camps out there about fan created languages.
Two of the major ones from my experience seem to be:
1. People that feel that they restrict peoples roleplay by creating pre-existing cliques that can look down upon people that do not have the 'right' way of using the 'language'.
2. People that feel that all flowers should bloom, and all kinds of fan created content is a good thing and it 'enriches' the roleplay.
My personal view is that people just like to be insufferable prats.
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Talk to the old U'K folk, they have some race specific non-translatable by the neocomm terms somewhere.
Interesting point! Why doesn't my NEOCOM translate all those Caldari greetings and insults that seem to go around? It confused the hell out of me the first few times I went to some Caldari channels :P
That's the point I was making. And I'm in camp #1 from Lallara's post, basically.