Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Mithfindel on 05 Apr 2011, 02:35
-
IIRC there's some rumours around that the original Incursion faction would have been the EoM, later change to Sansha.
-
^ Looking at the previous fanfest it appears the Incursion enemies were going to be Jovians at some stage.
-
Confirming that I have heard two different devs say that they originally planned for EoM to be the Big Bads of Incursion, but the player response to the Sansha live events changed their mind.
-
Confirming that I have heard two different devs say that they originally planned for EoM to be the Big Bads of Incursion, but the player response to the Sansha live events changed their mind.
I can confirm it was said during the live dev chat a few weeks back.
-
How retarded is that?
Seriously.
EoM? Mobilizing thousands upon thousands of ships and followers?
A lot of folks still believe that the plots of EVE are written down and kept in a vault somewhere. Things like this firmly convince me that they''re mostly made up a week before during week-long whiskey benders.
-
How retarded is that?
Seriously.
EoM? Mobilizing thousands upon thousands of ships and followers?
A lot of folks still believe that the plots of EVE are written down and kept in a vault somewhere. Things like this firmly convince me that they''re mostly made up a week before during week-long whiskey benders.
Well I know they don't have a region of their own like the Sansha. But they do turn up as mission targets quite a lot and I guess they must get the resources for those comedy-fit Imperial hulls somewhere.
-
But they do turn up as mission targets quite a lot and I guess they must get the resources for those comedy-fit Imperial hulls somewhere.
They have one mission (unless I'm forgetting another one).
They have no bases of operations.
Even in the missions, they have no infrastructure of any kind.
They have a philosophy that does not appeal to all that many people, as compared even to the message of Sansha. EoM relies on a very twisted view of the Amarrian religion, just like the Blood Raiders, and even with their region and stations, the BRC doesn't come close to having enough ships and personnel to take on the entire cluster.
It is literally the single most unsuitable group to propose. And it was the plan. It's extremely disheartening to find out how little CCP understand their own game world sometimes.
-
It is literally the single most unsuitable group to propose. And it was the plan. It's extremely disheartening to find out how little CCP understand their own game world sometimes.
I agree that the EoM make less sense from a logistical standpoint, definitely, in gathering up the resources that'd be needed to undertake the Incursions.
I can't help but shake the feeling that story and the established game world was secondary to the Incursion mechanic, though: if memory serves, one of the videos released in the lead-up to Incursion's deployment said pretty much "we picked the Sansha because they're scary". I think it was Ken (could have been someone else; memory's not quite working today) who summarised my feelings best. To paraphrase, it was something like:
"Right, we need a new group PvE mechanic."
"What about big NPC attacks on constellations?"
"Cool!"
"Yeah, we need someone scary, like the EoM, or the Sansha."
"Let's use the Sansha, they make a little more sense -- and wormholes are scary, right? Let's put wormholes into it."
Irrespective of what faction it is doing the incursing, for want of a better term, the entire mechanic just seems clunky to me. A handwaved 'we want to do something with group PvE' with story jammed in as an afterthought. That may or may not change with the mutterings about increasing the story element to them that we heard on the live devblog a few weeks back. If it was TonyG who said that, though (again, memory being a little dodgy), I guess you can refer back to much of this thread to guess my feelings on that. :U
-
They have one mission (unless I'm forgetting another one).
And this is bad how? Do the old Sansha missions make sense without the new AI? Not really.
They have no bases of operations.
That we know of. "attacking from a location which remains yet a mystery to CONCORD" makes more sense to me than "attacking from that area of space, let's not go there".
Even in the missions, they have no infrastructure of any kind.
That we know of.
They have a philosophy that does not appeal to all that many people, as compared even to the message of Sansha. EoM relies on a very twisted view of the Amarrian religion, just like the Blood Raiders, and even with their region and stations, the BRC doesn't come close to having enough ships and personnel to take on the entire cluster.
They are maniacal terrorists, looking to destroy. How does that not work in an Incursions setting?
It is literally the single most unsuitable group to propose.
After having Sansha for the live events, I found the choice of having them do Incursions to be a bit unimaginative. And it makes the old missions and the fact they hold territory without a massive CONCORD-led invasion to be illogical to me.
And it was the plan. It's extremely disheartening to find out how little CCP understand their own game world sometimes.
In conclusion, it would have been nice to have a mysterious entity fleshed along with the expansion.
Oh well, got any EM ammo?
-
Do the old Sansha missions make sense without the new AI? Not really.
Yes, they do. The Sansha we've seen for so long were stated to be remnants of the Old Nation, automatonic fleets simply following the last set of orders given. The New Sansha fleets are freshly built fleets, full of new tech that has been in development all this time, crewed by the victims of the Initial Incursion planets, and commanded by Sansha himself. Of course they behave differently.
The 'old' Nation remnant is still out there doing it's thing. Sansha just hasn't switched it off. Then again, maybe he can't? :yar:
"Attacking from a location which remains yet a mystery to CONCORD" makes more sense to me than "attacking from that area of space, let's not go there".
This makes no sense. Having an imagined, off the map origin is better than one that is explained? I vehemently disagree. In this case, Graelyn commands a force of 70 titans in an unexplored system, surely.
They are maniacal terrorists, looking to destroy. How does that not work in an Incursions setting?
The basis of the massive amount of personnel Sansha deploys is explained, both in the activities of the Remnant forces working all this time to harvest what they can, to the mass abductions in Empire space, and even a constant trickle of consensual followers trickling in from the Empires, people who believe in Kuvakei's dream. You have a massive slave force augmented by implantation, and devout followers.
Small extremist cults like the EoM remain small due to the outlandishness of their goals. It's hard to fathom a more extremist cause than the one they follow (Kill all life! Period! Arrgh!). There would be no massive influx of men or materiel. Hardly anyone would join them on purpose, and there is nothing in their background that points to an ability to force a population into serving them. As such, any attempt to shoehorn any of the above into their story would be completely pulled out of someone's ass with no supporting data. That's the sort of thing that no believable story should allow.
There is no basis for anything EoM related in an incursion setting. An argument that 'well, nothing says we can't' is not just a slippery slope, but a sheer cliff into a rocky ravine of doom.
After having Sansha for the live events, I found the choice of having them do Incursions to be a bit unimaginative.
Perhaps you wanted a group less likely to invade the cluster to go ahead and do so. In my view, a group that seems likely to do something should be the ones to....do it. Things making sense should be occasionally encouraged.
And it makes the old missions and the fact they hold territory without a massive CONCORD-led invasion to be illogical to me.
Here you have a point.
(Edit: Mods, this thread may need a split)
-
It would have been possible to make EoM the incursionners, but with a lot of radical changes and explanations. And well, it would definitly have been rubbish/cheesy/unrealistic.
-
EoM could have been the Incursion force if they had somehow gotten the Rogue Drones to ally with them. To the Rogue Drones, a human society dedicated to purging all human life in the cluster might be worth an ally. That is presuming the Rogue Drones have such a extreme goal as part of their agenda. That would have made the Rogue Drones the main incursion force, however, with EoM in supporting details (still). I am having trouble seeing how their organization would recruit effectively.
Unless they would have taken the whole rebirth/mass cloning schtick from the Sansha, and simply replicated their existing members endlessly to generate a clone army. That, would in theory, correct their membership issues. As for their space based infrastructure? No idea on that still.
Did TonyG give away much info about the selection / building process for Incursion during the Fanfest at all? Or does he just work on Novels?
-
In this area, I think the criticism has gotten off-base.
So they had an initial concept and modified what may or may not have been a good idea into something bigger based on enthusiastic player response. This is a problem... why?
Look, nobody's "first idea" is always good. If you generate a lot of ideas, some of them will be bad, by definition. They realized early on that there was a better option and went with that. Shouldn't we be celebrating the fact that CCP reacted to what players liked and went with that?
-
In this area, I think the criticism has gotten off-base.
So they had an initial concept and modified what may or may not have been a good idea into something bigger based on enthusiastic player response. This is a problem... why?
Look, nobody's "first idea" is always good. If you generate a lot of ideas, some of them will be bad, by definition. They realized early on that there was a better option and went with that. Shouldn't we be celebrating the fact that CCP reacted to what players liked and went with that?
Opportunity lost, in some respects, I suppose. I can understand that some people will lament about EoM not getting any love since the abrupt death of that planet burn event arc. On the flipside, the Nation has also experienced very little progression until the live events reboot. Now one of the most mysterious factions is starting to get fleshed out a bit.
It's possible EoM will get involved in the Sleeper Arc, since the event team seems to want to move the Nation away from being intimately involved with that. The exact origins of the wormhole generator are a mystery, but Omune (Fed Actor) did divulge the device was of pure Sansha origin - Not a Sleeper relic stolen.
-
Sure, I'd like to see EoM fleshed out as well. A little part of me wishes they'd stuck with it.
But I think it's counterproductive to criticize CCP for altering plans in response to what players seem to like, including the sub-community that gravitates to Backstage and all the other tools we often share in common.
-
Could we split the EoM discussion off into a topic that can argue the pros and cons of micro factions in world shaping events? EoM, The Seven, etc. It would seem more appropriate than in a TonyG topic.
-
Rogue drones being the incursioners would have definitly made a lot of sense to me. Even more than Sansha. A new kind of infestation, or maybe a renegade hive ?
-
[mod]Split as requested.[/mod]
-
A lot of folks still believe that the plots of EVE are written down and kept in a vault somewhere. Things like this firmly convince me that they''re mostly made up a week before during week-long whiskey benders.
Sadly i thought the same
-
Onto the topic of incursion factions, pros and cons, etc...
I know I've heard this, but I cannot quite find the source. There have been talks about CCP reusing Incursion mechanics (or its theme) for other factions, yes?
We may see an Incursion theme from every faction at one point or another, not necessarily with wormholes and shenanigans. Sansha incursion, for instance, big promo release, iconic villain, etc, as CCP have talked about in interviews. Sansha incursions end at some point, others step in with more localized incursions. Sansha may retain the unique ability to attack across the galaxy as they please, where as other factions cannot.
Rogue Drone outbreak from the Drone regions, for instance. North eastern frontiers of Empire space (notably Minmatar space) come under Rogue Drone incursions. Or the Drone Hives across the cluster go nuts and start an exponential expansion (a plausible method of a pan-galactic incursion for them). These are the most logical stop point for the Big Bad after Sansha.
Then there are smaller scale incursion methods, such as EoM flipping their shit and going on a rampage in Genesis/where ever. The full system debilitating effects we see with the Sansha wouldn't exist across the region, but EoM's presence would be felt everywhere instead of just one constellation. Conversely, they probably wouldn't show up for a long time afterward due to being a small player in the galactic market.
A flexible Incursion model would, I think, allow the various factions to get their due Incursions (Empires too maybe?), while not completely shattering the suspension of disbelief. Empires may do Incursions to support the efforts of their people in FW, for instance, after a certain number of objectives are met. Alternatively, they do their own counter Incursions in their bordering Nullsec systems to fight the pirate menace, etc... They wouldn't do them in other areas of empire space because of CONCORD.
Or I'm blowing smoke out my ass by hoping about what could be done with these mechanics :P
-
Whats more likely though Ghost, is that CCP won't touch the Incursions storyline with a 10 foot pole and will try to force the story in yet another, completely unrelated direction. Sansha will continue being the odd duck out of the pirate nations, and the other groups will be made to look less awesome as a result >_<
I want to believe CCP won't completely abandon this element of the story...but lets be honest with ourselves here. Do we really think its going to go anywhere?
-
Whats more likely though Ghost, is that CCP won't touch the Incursions storyline with a 10 foot pole and will try to force the story in yet another, completely unrelated direction. Sansha will continue being the odd duck out of the pirate nations, and the other groups will be made to look less awesome as a result >_<
I want to believe CCP won't completely abandon this element of the story...but lets be honest with ourselves here. Do we really think its going to go anywhere?
I STILL BELIEVE ... IN A WORLD WHERE CHANGE CAN HAPPEN.
Well, before the Obama administ-USER WAS CENSORED FOR THIS POST
[spoiler]But no seriously, if cliche story telling is to be expected the Nation will probably get irreparably crippled at the end of their Incursions to pass the torch onto the next big bad. It depends on how off the wall they are willing to get, but I imagine things will change a bit, even if it's just the face of the enemy you're shooting and not the mechanics.[/spoiler]
-
I agree with the Sansha above.
Yes I do.
-
And this is why sometimes, I'm not pissed that CCP hasn't dealt with the Serpentis faction much.
But I have faith in the toaster loyalists. Despite CCP's plot writing, they've still managed to keep at it for their faction. I'm sure they'll still be doing neato stuff long after the incursion buzz ends.
-
And this is why sometimes, I'm not pissed that CCP hasn't dealt with the Serpentis faction much.
But I have faith in the toaster loyalists. Despite CCP's plot writing, they've still managed to keep at it for their faction. I'm sure they'll still be doing neato stuff long after the incursion buzz ends.
♥
I am hoping they avoid the deadly pit fall this precedent could set up. Of the five major pirate factions, three have world altering ambitions. The Covenant dreams of the Great Harvest, the Nation is currently going under its revenge phase, and the Guristas mostly want to see ordered society (caldari) broken down. The Angels themselves may have world dominations (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Dominations_%28NPC_corporation%29) aspirations, but that agenda is as shady as the Nation pre-Incursion stuff.
Serpentis I have no idea about, they seem to be honest to god black market profiteers. Might be on board with the Angels for conquest, if that is the case, though.
In the end, if each of the major outlaw factions receive their own due attention like the Sansha did, I am afraid if they go the "you're big! now you're slapped down again" for the status quo. Beefing up a faction is not necessarily bad, so long as the circumstances that would send them over the edge is never reached. The Nation is a good example right now, because they have two horrifying super weapons.
The first is their wormhole generator technology, which essentially allows them unrestricted access anywhere they please. The second is the Kyonoke speck, an unspeakably deadly substance that could wipe out all life it comes into contact with. Combine the two and you have a world ending scenario right at your finger tips, pretty much. Understandably, for the sake of story telling, this I Win scenario should probably be removed or locked up.
Super weapons help prevent full war scenarios (or instigate them), but so does Mutually Assured Destruction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction). I'm pretty ok with the notion of the Kyonoke speck being put out of the way (maybe given off to the next Big Bad as their kicker). The Nation's wormhole technology I'm a bit leery about. Some appropriate plot device could in theory kick them out of highsec, but allow them the use of it else where still. I'm mostly ok with the Nation having it because it's not a world ender weapon on its own: it needs to be combined. Unless you open a wormhole in the middle of a planet to make it implode, or something. I don't think that's possible, though. By far and large, I don't think the Nation's wormhole capabilities has seen its fullest use yet.
That's just the Nation. Then there's the other factions and their own colorful mega weapons. [spoiler=The Burning Life]The Guristas have literally built an entirely artificial planet, CCP only knows what kind of doomsday weapon you could build at that point.[/spoiler] The Covenant has some kind of super viral weapon from way back in the day during the Bleak Lands arc, not sure if they still have that. The Angels have Jovian technology to some extent, they could probably reverse engineer a doom ray out of it. Serpentis have their mastery of narcotics, they could probably make a super poison or something. They definitely have mind control/manipulation drugs, I run into those all the bloody time. This does not even take into account 3 work together, and the other 2 work together as well. If anything, the situation is so heavily slanted against the Empires because they're fighting against each other right now it's not even funny.[spoiler]Jovians to save the day![/spoiler]
tl;dr
I am afraid that in the name of keeping things 'stable', CCP will beef up a faction for Incursions/World events, and then promptly cripple the fuck out of them again. The closest we have gotten to is the Amarr losing Jamyl's superweapon, but they are still a relatively powerful faction without it. Contrast with the Nation, who would lose an enormous military equalizer if their wormhole technology was stricken out. The second closest faction that would face a Nation-esque wipe out is probably the Covenant, since they are quite universally hated. Angels, Serpentis, and Guristas seem to be strictly faction linked.
[spoiler]rabble rabble rabble[/spoiler]
-
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. The guristas don’t strike me as having the kind of centralized control necessary to coordinate a clusterwide invasion of any kind… I guess I’m too used to looking at them like a street gang in space rather than the kind of criminal organization that could undertake such shenanigans. I could be wrong.
Don’t know a ton about the Angels, I could see them taking a swing at Republic space but don’t see them going after everyone. Serps sure as hell don’t make sense – just a bunch of scientists and researchers that are only outlaws because the law decided to frown on their work, at least originally. Since them they’ve evolved to take advantage of their position, but I don’t see them having any sort of ambitions for conquest. If CCP decides to change that and doesn’t come up with a very very good reason why, I’ll be more than a little annoyed.
Blooders I guess make some sense – sufficiently insane to consider the attempt at a clusterwide clusterfuck, probably have the resources to pull off something big even if they aren’t Nation, and universally despised.
Rogue drones would be the other faction that makes any sense for the next Big Bad of incursions. They’ve got the numbers, the resources, and the advanced tech to do all those nasty little things that happen to our ships when Papa Sansha farts up a system.
Regardless, any faction that CCP tries to use is going to need some very careful, thoughtful working through to have it make any sense. Otherwise it’s just going to feel like another rectal extraction that makes the RP community facepalm until it bleeds.
:bash:
-
I'm sure I'm gonna step on someone's toes here, but, that's half of what I do already, so. Herewuhgo.
I'm wildly opposed to CCP's current representation of the Sansha, among other pirate factions, and I know some people share the sentiment. The problem is that when you basically make a character or faction, raise them up to the status of a superpower with unimaginably powerful weapons, set them against the entirety of the cluster, and openly declare that they're the obvious black-and-white antagonists, what you've made isn't the deep, politically and socially complex, mostly-grey and infinitely interesting world of EVE.
You've made the plot from Harry Potter.
I can't speak for everyone obviously. But the idea of world-killer weapons, superpowerful antagonists, clear-cut discrepancies between good and evil... it's just fucking boring, and childish.
-
Is it just me, or do I remember Sansha always wanting to conquer the universe? Evanda Char has more notes on these things than I do, but there were data files, old Aurora live events, various thing indicating a desire for the remnants to make a New Nation and bring Sansha's light to all, etc etc.
Why is it that people get angry that the Sansha are doing what they always claimed they were going to do? It wasn't that much of a secret, was it?
-
Jules, I think the issue isn't the motive so much as it is the means, to use the old murder mystery elements.
That said, I think the Sansha roleplayers have done a better than decent job of creating moral ambiguity and shades of gray for that faction. Reasonable people can disagree on whether CCP has done so as well, but Kybernetes and GH have really reduced the contrast there.
-
I'm confused. People want the Amarrian Roleplayers to go more GLORIOUS CRUSADE ENSLAVE THE HEATHENS because it makes for a fun counterpoint in roleplay, while the moderate Amarrians are derided. Meanwhile, the menagerie of Sansha players are concerned the mind-slave-conquest race is getting too grimdark.
Is it just me that sees this contradiction?
-
I'm sure I'm gonna step on someone's toes here, but, that's half of what I do already, so. Herewuhgo.
I'm wildly opposed to CCP's current representation of the Sansha, among other pirate factions, and I know some people share the sentiment. The problem is that when you basically make a character or faction, raise them up to the status of a superpower with unimaginably powerful weapons, set them against the entirety of the cluster, and openly declare that they're the obvious black-and-white antagonists, what you've made isn't the deep, politically and socially complex, mostly-grey and infinitely interesting world of EVE.
You've made the plot from Harry Potter.
I can't speak for everyone obviously. But the idea of world-killer weapons, superpowerful antagonists, clear-cut discrepancies between good and evil... it's just fucking boring, and childish.
In simplest terms I agree with you, some points aside (I love superweapons, not necessarily antagonists).
Would you think an exit strategy for the Sansha in this storyline would be for Kuvakei, after his nose has been bloodied a bit perhaps, has the Nation formally withdraw back to its traditional territories for internal affairs? I rather like the idea of Kuvakei caving into his messiah complex for his people and starts rebuilding the home worlds of the Nation back to glory. It shows he can go off the deep end for vengeance, but he is not solely defined by his hate/revenge emotions. Ergo, fulfills the part of the Sansha chronicle where he truly believes himself a messiah. You know, in a twisted, fucked up way, but he loves us all the same.
Jules, I think the issue isn't the motive so much as it is the means, to use the old murder mystery elements.
That said, I think the Sansha roleplayers have done a better than decent job of creating moral ambiguity and shades of gray for that faction. Reasonable people can disagree on whether CCP has done so as well, but Kybernetes and GH have really reduced the contrast there.
♥
I agree with the means over the motive, as it were. The motive for galactic conquest is all fine and dandy, but the means to get there is what builds the character. The Nation has the characteristics of a massive shadow entity who probably rivals the Jovians in terms of intelligence warfare. I mean, they can pull the information right out of your skull. Kinda serious.
A sudden resurgence on a galactic 'look at me scale' seems to go against their master mind way of behaving. Why draw attention when it can still be stopped, versus it's too late for them now, basically. I dunno, it seems like an artistic conflict because CCP wanted them to be the main villain of the Incursions. It works, it's a bit of a leap, but it works to a degree.
-
Did Sansha give a fuck about the 'method', ie, use 'sekrit' approaches to galactic conquest, his last time around? As I recall, he rather publicly assembled a massive fleet/army of slaves in Stain, which the nations then responded to and crushed. Are we sure that he would've learned from this lesson, being the massive egomaniac that he is?
-
Did Sansha give a fuck about the 'method', ie, use 'sekrit' approaches to galactic conquest, his last time around? As I recall, he rather publicly assembled a massive fleet/army of slaves in Stain, which the nations then responded to and crushed. Are we sure that he would've learned from this lesson, being the massive egomaniac that he is?
No. That's really not what happened at all. He was mostly minding his own business and the other empires didn't like his style.
-
Minding his business like. . . abducting people and making mind-slaves out of them, perhaps.
-
Did Sansha give a fuck about the 'method', ie, use 'sekrit' approaches to galactic conquest, his last time around? As I recall, he rather publicly assembled a massive fleet/army of slaves in Stain, which the nations then responded to and crushed. Are we sure that he would've learned from this lesson, being the massive egomaniac that he is?
What happened a century ago is still somewhat murky. We know from the Sansha Nation's chronicle that the Empires saw him visibly mass a great slave army, but I do not recall any declarations on his part of announcing galactic conquest. The Empires crushed him in a preemptive strike, and the closest thing from that time period I can think of is the Audio Fragment where he declares himself 'the answer'.
Logic dictates he probably very well intended galactic conquest at that time period, because the Nation was at the height of its glory and expansion was a good choice for the massive military. Whether or not he intends to presumably continue that assumed goal, I do not know. This may seem dodgy, but until Kuvakei outright states something along the lines of 'I will rule the universe', best not to get hunkered down in one assumption. Keep our options open, and all that.
He might've just intended to kick the shit out of the Amarrians, for instance. Or the fledgling Angel Cartel that was on the borders of Nation space. Wouldn't want any criminal scourge tainting the edges of the great promised land, and all that jazz. One could easily look at the COSMOS for the Sansha where they are attempting to expand into Angel territory for credibility to either theory, honestly.
Edit: I'm also pretty sure at the time Delve, Querious, and Period Basis were unpopulated by anything more than extreme frontiersmen. It wasn't until EVE's launch and the Bleak Lands arc when the Covenant got kicked out did they make those regions their formal home. Might be wrong though, some old timers will have to check in on that. Expanding the military in order to guard those three new regions for the Nation would be a sensible choice as well.
-
@ Business Kitty aka. Ghost
Looking over your former points, I can see how Sansha himself has a few, for lack of better terms, excuses for the superweapon field. Among those is the fact that he was a Caldari entrepreneur, and so probably lives by the indoctrination of the patriots - being a weapons manufacturer - in that a bigass weapon is a valid tactic. For that matter, it might be an interesting point that Kuvakei might consider it worthwhile to say,open up a wormhole on a planet, to prove his messiah-ness to any followers disillusioned by the incursions.
Personally, I could see Kuvakei being defeated by his own complex, so to speak. Some kind of, Die Hard-style standoff against his personal carrier, which the close-orbiting CONCORD, navy and capsuleer pilots don't know carries a self-destructing supermassive wormhole generator on-board...
More likely, I expect CCP to continue with their mustache-twirling interpretation of Sansha, and have him disappear back into the void to collect his strength after sneering at the empires and saying "nyeahhh, foiled again!" But, at least in that interpretation, your glorious leader gets to live. :D
I'm eager to see what the player loyalists do, moreover. CCP might keep the incursions running for a time, but I have to figure eventually they'll let them end. At that point it'll be up to the players to decide what the faction's direction will be, which is what I think we're far more interested in.
As per Serps, we're purely black market. We're not doing anything else.
I'm serial about that. We're not doing anything. Just drugs.
Serial.