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General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Aria Jenneth on 03 Dec 2010, 12:56

Title: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Aria Jenneth on 03 Dec 2010, 12:56
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1413344&page=10#299 (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1413344&page=10#299)

It looks like this thing is being set up to be a particularly terrifying fighter-bomber carrier, capable of fielding the equivalent of 32 bombers (16 double damage, double HP bombers) when fully outfitted with drone control units.

It also seems to be the only unit in the game where loading its high slots with drone control units might be a wholly rational decision, since it gets effectively double benefit from each.

This is all of a sudden looking like a worthy ship. Mind you, I'm no expert.

Actually, I kinda want one.

Thoughts?

P.S.: also, since it has four fifths of a standard supercarrier's drone capacity, it can also launch more waves.

(Thanks for the reminder, Kyoko)
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha mothership doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: John Revenent on 03 Dec 2010, 13:08
It has a awesome name! But Im no Sansha (I think  :eek: ). Looking it over, this is one scary piece of equipment.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha mothership doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Ken on 03 Dec 2010, 14:33
Ooh, shiney! :D  But, man... long way to go...

/me queues up Caldari Frigate I...
 
8)
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha mothership doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Kyoko Sakoda on 03 Dec 2010, 15:06
Much, much better than it was (before it was worse than T1). I would like one for each pirate faction!

I like the fact that this makes the Chimera/Wyvern more useful on the battlefield by way of simply being another shield tanking capital boat.

edit: Aria, it is a supercarrier. The decreased bay compensates for the crazy drone damage.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha mothership doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Ken on 03 Dec 2010, 15:08
I would like some pirate faction BCs or T2 variants first, honestly.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha mothership doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Kyoko Sakoda on 03 Dec 2010, 15:10
On the contrary I don't think T2 capitals ever should happen simply because there are other ships that need redefined roles before capitals do.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha mothership doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Ken on 03 Dec 2010, 15:13
Agreed.  Sorry, I was unclear.  Meant T2 pirate faction frigs/cruisers/BS.  Dominations Dramiel plz?
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha mothership doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Kyoko Sakoda on 03 Dec 2010, 15:15
Unlikely to happen. You can already "make" a Domi Dramiel by fitting Gistii gear to it. Like I said, there are a few ship types that need their roles revisited before anything new crops up.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha mothership doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Aria Jenneth on 03 Dec 2010, 15:37
edit: Aria, it is a supercarrier. The decreased bay compensates for the crazy drone damage.

Heh-- thanks for the poke. I keep forgetting the rename.

About the bay: the decreased drone bay only compensates for the damage partially. A Nyx gets 250,000 cubic meters. A Revenant gets 200,000. However, every fighter or fighter-bomber it carries counts double. So-- total drone bay size goes down 20%, but the result is (if my arithmetic is right) drones worth 160% of the Nyx's primary offensive load.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Kyoko Sakoda on 03 Dec 2010, 15:40
Yeah, your arithmetic is sound. The idea is though that more damage = less backup damage if you lose a wing of fighters to smartbombs etc.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Esna Pitoojee on 03 Dec 2010, 16:19
Ho-leee shite. This thing just grew teeth.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Z.Sinraali on 03 Dec 2010, 16:52
Ho-leee shite. This thing just grew teeth.

So this whole incursion thing is just teething pains?
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Alain Colcer on 03 Dec 2010, 20:50
Ho-leee shite. This thing just grew teeth.

it lack spikey look though  :lol:, still looks like a turd.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Amann Karris on 03 Dec 2010, 21:22
it lack spikey look though  :lol:, still looks like a turd.
They put their strength in the one place no one would dare look for it; a huge pile of [CONCORD Censor applied.]  ;)
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Senn Typhos on 03 Dec 2010, 21:37

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_justice

<3
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Vlad Cetes on 04 Dec 2010, 13:09
This is the fucking shit for ganking jump freighters/carriers.
Assuming all level 5
Mom w/ 0 DCU = 8000
Nyx w/ 0 DCU = 10000
Mom w/ 5x DCU = 10000
Nyx w/ 5x DCU = 12500
Revenant w/ 0 DCU = 8000
Revenant w/ 5x DCU = 12000
Revenant w/ 6x DCU = 12,800

So Revenat needs 3x DCU to outdamage a 0x DCU Nyx.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Ken on 04 Dec 2010, 15:12
Ho-leee shite. This thing just grew teeth.
:lol:, still looks like a turd.
Par (http://evepics.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/epdomi.png) for (http://izlin.free.fr/eve/ships/typhoon.jpg) the (http://www.ravestats.com/public/fen/caldari-moa-2.jpg) course (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3435/3704237746_a347709fce.jpg).
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Mathra Hiede on 22 Dec 2010, 07:39
Ho-leee shite. This thing just grew teeth.
:lol:, still looks like a turd.
Par (http://evepics.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/epdomi.png) for (http://izlin.free.fr/eve/ships/typhoon.jpg) the (http://www.ravestats.com/public/fen/caldari-moa-2.jpg) course (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3435/3704237746_a347709fce.jpg).

...But I LIKE the Bestower! D:

...I do!

q_q

Still, Sansha carrier looks like something Kuvakei had a really hard time passing, all the gristle included.
It must have burnt so badly he made a ship out of it so all would simply run from looking than actually having to fight a turd that hits harder than all but a Ban-Hammer!
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Kazzzi on 25 Dec 2010, 13:43
I don't want one, I just want to kill one.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Ken on 25 Dec 2010, 15:11
Waiting (and training) for the Angel supercarrier. :D
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Saede Riordan on 25 Dec 2010, 15:23
Waiting (and training) for the Angel supercarrier. :D

Pretty much this
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Boma Airaken on 20 Jan 2011, 22:24
Had a slugfest with one on Sisi. Me and two buddies. Nyx and two dreads fitted with the new named cap mods. It ate us for breakfast. Its damage is insane and it fields a wicked tank.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Bacchanalian on 20 Jan 2011, 23:34
Had a slugfest with one on Sisi. Me and two buddies. Nyx and two dreads fitted with the new named cap mods. It ate us for breakfast. Its damage is insane and it fields a wicked tank.

What am I missing?  How is its DPS any higher than a Nyx if fit properly?  How is its buffer any better?

I'm just not seeing it.

(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/5601/nyxrigtest.jpg)

There's my Nyx fit. 

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9894/revenanttest.jpg)

There's a similar Revenant fit, with slightly more pimped cap recharge modules.  Note that I fit PDS instead of CPRs because I was trying to maximize buffer.  Same principle with the Slaves.

The Revenant is a good 15% weaker in terms of overall buffer.  It does 600 DPS less as well.  And it's getting an extra DCU over a standard Nyx kit.  The only difference I'm seeing is a substantially lower cap recharge time for the Rev, but if you drop the Chelm's to Tairei's (besides losing another million in buffer), the cap recharge time doubles to 24 minutes (the Nyx is 17 minutes, the Chelm's Rev is 13). 

And it absolutely pales next to an Aeon.  The DPS is higher, for certain, but the Aeon crushes it in terms of EHP.

(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6722/aeontest.jpg)

It's also worth noting that when you're doing 9k-11k DPS per ship and you have several of them on the field, your target is going to melt regardless.  For things as small as carriers and dreads, in fact, you'll see Hels and Aeons out damaging Nyxes simply because the carriers melt so fast that it comes down to how many volleys the fighter bombers get off.  I suppose when you're starting to talk about killing titans it might be another story, but if you're in the business of doing that you're doing it with 2 dozen or more supercarriers, most of which will be armor tanked as will their support fleet. 

I guess I just don't see the attraction outside of "shiny".  Considering it's certain to cost 1.5-2x what any other super does right now (hell, for a while it'll probably be more like triple), I'm not sure why anyone would want one. 
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Boma Airaken on 21 Jan 2011, 01:00
Keep in mind Bach, this was on test and a while ago, right as the changes hit Sisi. Dreads were fit for maximum damage and cleared off the field relatively quickly. Regardless, and eft-warrioring aside, all I said was the thing is fucking impressive in player hands, and it is.

ETA: During that mirror the only thing anybody had was T2 or the new CONCORD mods available for fits, and the guy flying the Revenant had the Sansha bombers. There was no faction anything available or speshul bombers available at the time while the Nyx had none.

Also, it will be interesting to see what the LP costs are on TQ for the CONCORD cap mods, as frankly I wasn't really impressed.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Bacchanalian on 21 Jan 2011, 04:05
A supercarrier is going to chase a dread off incredibly quickly.  3 supercarriers can drop a carrier in less time than it takes for it to deaggress and dock, so that's not really all that impressive.  What I'm wondering is how the Revenant beat the Nyx.  Toe to toe the Nyx should win.  With the added dps from the dreads if they were in siege (figure 2-3 minutes of their DPS at the start of the fight), it should have melted the Rev. 

I guess I just don't see it.  Did the Nyx pilot have carrier 5 and fighterbomber 5?  The Rev?

In any case, it's not useless like it was when it was first released.  I just don't see the attraction when the conventional supers are as good or better.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Boma Airaken on 21 Jan 2011, 06:07
Nyx wasn't rocking any DCU's as it wasn't really a planned sisi style fight just a hurr durr lets do this kind of engagement, and he wasn't able to SB bombers as the dreads were fit for close range and he went for them first. Dreads were in s-mode. One thing I noticed was that the rev could really move for a supercap, but like I said, test server. Also, he was obviously active tanked, which made it even more perplexing.

Either way, just my observations on test. If I got one would I field one instead of a normal supercap? Fuck no. Sell it to a rich retard. But my experience with it so far was kind of skeery. I made it 3 minutes as first primary. Maybe 2. I drink too much.
Title: Re: So suddenly the Sansha supercarrier doesn't bite rocks.
Post by: Bacchanalian on 21 Jan 2011, 14:57
3 minutes as primary sounds about right for a mothership vs dread.  Figure in this instance, we had been shooting the Revelation (out of siege) for over 10 minutes (they had 2xArchons repping it and hugging station).  When we finally dropped the Nyx...well you can see below how long it took to kill it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihIE_6f4jTk

But yeah, sounds like the kits were suboptimal--you don't active tank a mom.  You just don't do it because there are no circumstances under which you should be deploying said supercarrier without support, and as such, you'll get far more from RR if you maximize buffer than you will trying to fit a 2k DPS local tank.

Bottom line is, I think we'll see people in PL/IT/Goons etc flying these right away, but won't see too many of them filter down to the "common folk" for a while.