Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Esna Pitoojee on 28 Sep 2010, 15:48
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So, I was struck by Ulphus' reply to a post in the "Why is IC prostitution bad?" thread.
Everybody is fine with me being a slaver, but if I start to haunt channels while constantly torturing, whipping and beating up slaves in gory explicit scenes, then yeah, I will certainly expect me from being asked to leave many channels.
TBH, The slavers were one of the reasons I stopped going to the Last Gate.
And the whips bother me less than the compliant slaves that think that it's right that they be a slave. Especially when the slave owner tries to tell me that there's nothing wrong with it, cos their slave is happy.
The psychological chains disturb me OOC, and I'm not allowed to shoot them in the face IC. So I avoid them.
This got me thinking: Has anyone else here ever encountered something in character that truly disturbed you OOC? I'm not just saying "er, I have an OOC issue with your RP breaking PF/forcing my hand ICly/etc", I'm saying you just had to leave the situation ICly out of disgust (possibly because you couldn't break some faces ICly)?
I'll start - I personally, find genocide to be horrifying. I am well aware of the fact that Esna has the blood of millions, if not tens of millions of dead crews' lives on his hands; however, when someone suggests the "We should kill everyone who isn't us" route, I simply have to leave/not enter the discussion, because nothing productive would come of it (Esna, and by proxy myself, really doesn't have much to say to that sort of thing).
A note here: I am extremely aware of the possibility this discussion has to devolve into "X did Y, and that was horrifying." Please, for the love of Chribba, keep it to "I can't be involved in RP where people are doing Z, because it's to much for me" and if you absolutely have to provide examples, make it as abstract as posssible (i.e., "I found myself in a bar where people were discussing killing all of the ___ and I had to walk out.").
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As I referenced in the thread from which you've spun this off (and thank you for doing so), I can't deal with slavery RP in any sort of detail. It's one thing to shout "death to the slavers!" and maybe transport some freedmen / refugees. It's quite another to RP anything related to it on a personal level. As it personally offends me on a deeply emotional level, I just avoid it in all its forms.
In EVE, I've been able to avoid it completely. In SWG, I had to leave scenes with good OOC friends because I could not deal with the IC implications. It just wouldn't have worked for my character to go all "white knight" on someone, and I didn't want to disrupt things. (That last is a common issue in Star Wars RP for thematic reasons, one which would deserve its own thread here as well, rather than derail this one.)
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Honestly? No. Nothing I have ever seen in Eve RP, or any other RP, has ever disturbed me.
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EVE PF contains prostitution, blood drinking, murder, genocide, terror bombings, cannibalism, torture, drugs, involuntary psychosurgery, mining, forced labor, human sacrifice and all manner of atrocity.
Not really much left that we as players can do that goes any farther over the line.
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I'm pretty fine with whatever. If it starts to really bug me (or if it gets really boring) I'll IzzyTroll till the topic changes.
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Usually I get irritated by really stupid shit, like the more failure-prone internet spaceship vampire types, and I'll either rage so hard I earn a new piece of hatemail or block or I'll just go away because fuck, that's stupid.
ALSO if you think ships don't have crews and don't roll with the evidence after a couple of us give you informative links. And one time someone pretended to be from the Order in Theodicy and I just about blew a gasket.
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EVE PF contains prostitution, blood drinking, murder, genocide, terror bombings, cannibalism, torture, drugs, involuntary psychosurgery, mining, forced labor, human sacrifice and all manner of atrocity.
Not really much left that we as players can do that goes any farther over the line.
:eek: Ok....i can find mining boring/souldestroying but being included among all those other things :o
Personally i have so far not seen much that have made disturbed me OOC. Been a few occasions where people have totally ignored clearcut PF in major ways and such annoys me. Perhaps if i was deeper into Eve rp it would disturb me more but truth is that so far its been mostly contained to rp bar rp.
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Maybe I'm just a delicate flower, but I've been OOC disturbed by IC conversations with a nearly nine-year-old to the point of having to leave.
Ok, so it appeared to be an almost sociopathic nearly-nine-year-old contemplating killing everyone in the cluster that she couldn't have fitted with TCMCs, but still...
Edit: don't get me wrong, it was very good, intense RP, with intense emotions, but they weren't very nice emotions.
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I find some IC treatment of stalking and rape themes too disturbing OOC to engage with the storyline IC. While I don't find them incongruous with the grimdark of Eve, and I understand that people want to play out a story and then move on, I can't cope with storylines that treat them as falling somewhere on the scale between a hangnail and a minor car-crash.
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ERP that involves this weird "killing fetish". The fuck.
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:eek: Ok....i can find mining boring/souldestroying but being included among all those other things :o
Mining is the source of all evil
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Just that the stupidity of the rest of the world is mirrored in EVE, if to a slightly lesser extent.
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Just that the stupidity of the rest of the world is mirrored in EVE, if to a slightly lesser extent.
This.
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I find some IC treatment of stalking and rape themes too disturbing OOC to engage with the storyline IC.
This, pretty much.
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Random thought ...
You are walking along in a public park, in real life, and come across two children, 16 year olds, playing a game of "pretend" where they are acting out killing eachother, or engaging in fettish sex and/or snuff, or talking about killing people and drinking thier blood, or enslaving and torturing people.
How do you react?
Now, you get home and log into Eve and enter a public channel, and see the same situation.
how do you react now?
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Yes... I do get OoC disturbed by some things. Willing slavery is one of them, as it's hitting far too close to the ultimate taboo in D/s. Breaking someone mentally until the point they believe this is right. This is how it should be. Sure, they might enjoy it, but it's a sin tantamount to murder as far as I'm concerned... because a human mind being destroyed to the point of enjoying being just property and having no freedom... that's murdering a mind. And that's all that we humans are, as far as I'm concerned.
Yes, it disturbs me. It hits too close to home. Rape RP does the same.
Gran here pretty much hit the nail on the head... why should this be 'oh it's just RP and just fine' in Eve, but unthinkable in real life? Somewhere there's a disconnect that needs to be mended.
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RP for sake of RP disturbs and annoys me. Too many times I've had my happy killed by somebody asking "can I RP with you?"
Slavery obviously to those who know me does not bother me at all on either OOC/IC levels (those who are married will agree with me that there is a place for slavery in this world) However some people think they can use roleplay to justify anything and everything about how they play regardless of implications.
"It's just a game" or "It's all in character bud" has been used too many times to justify shitty things done and when so many of us pour so much of our time and effort into eve, this is clearly not just a game.
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(those who are married will agree with me that there is a place for slavery in this world)
No, we won't.
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(those who are married will agree with me that there is a place for slavery in this world)
No, we won't.
Hurr durr no sense of humor.
You are walking along in a public park, in real life, and come across two children, 16 year olds, playing a game of "pretend" where they are acting out killing eachother, or engaging in fettish sex and/or snuff, or talking about killing people and drinking thier blood, or enslaving and torturing people.
How do you react?
Summon nuns, tell them about this, see what happens. Probably mind my own business unless I actually think they're plotting murder, which is, you know, problematic to the point that it might damage their prospects down the road and is therefore scaring them away from. Consider giving them tips on how to fetish sex (which is spelled with only a single 't') without damaging partner and telling them that blood tastes like crap, and that they should upgrade from twilight to oWoD.
Sixteen year olds often have active and safe enough sex lives. They'd be in some danger of breaking the law what with their exhibitionism, but that could be the fetish in question in this vague situation.
Now, you get home and log into Eve and enter a public channel, and see the same situation.
how do you react now?
If has modrights, ban everyone. Then leave.
If no modrights, file EULA complaints, sit back and wait for the fireworks to start.
People disturbing other people? In MY EVE Online?
Inexcusable.
Hey, let's smacktalk. Is me calling your mother a whore a hundred times in a row better or worse than me cybering in public?
You live in the West. It's an open society, most places have free speech. Get used to the fact that sometimes you're going to feel offended, insulted, degraded, et cetera just by listening to members of government, let alone your fellow citizens. It's on the internet we can let our inner lawyer censorship nazi out.
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The fact that anyone has an inner lawyer censorship nazi, in any medium, scares the fucking shit out of me.
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The fact that anyone has an inner lawyer censorship nazi, in any medium, scares the fucking shit out of me.
What?
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The Gallente epic arc with its story of child labor and prostitution and the inhuman ways these children are treated within the Federation has actually made me reluctant to do the arc as I OOC find abuse of children one of the greatest sins ever.
The Gallente got nothing on the Amarr.
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I find some IC treatment of stalking and rape themes too disturbing OOC to engage with the storyline IC.
This, pretty much.
This.
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The fact that anyone has an inner lawyer censorship nazi, in any medium, scares the fucking shit out of me.
Inner censorship nazi lawyer is probably better.
Look, it's that urge to say 'No, that shit isn't right! It's not fit for human consumption! Think of the children.' that such phrasing applies to. I don't go for it like I don't help elect conservatives in the US.
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Having an inner censor doesn't make you a Nazi. It makes you an adult.
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Having an inner censor doesn't make you a Nazi. It makes you an adult.
Which I why I am not yet and adult. :P
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Having an inner censor doesn't make you a Nazi. It makes you an adult.
You don't understand the phrasing. The key noun is 'nazi,' 'censorship' is not the same as 'censor,' and now I want to see your voting record.
The defining characteristic of adulthood isn't the capacity to display appropriate degrees of formality or a lack of subversiveness in public, or showing a face of inoffensiveness of one's interactions with the world at large. That's being good at the kind of social interaction that greases one's way towards societal optimization, or 'presentableness' to an employer, an adoption agency, a seller of real estate, or a voting demographic. Very different from being an adult.
In fact, I think it's accurate to say that people who lack the kind of internal censor you're describing usually have inhibited mental functioning in areas relating to social interaction. Which isn't to say they can't come to adulthood.
'But that's different! That's physiological!' Yeah? You're getting the same stimulus. You're choosing to contextualize it differently, though, because of some circumstantial shit. Which we could talk about, in another thread, for pages and pages. But that would be off topic, as has been the whole discussion since Graanvlokkie inaugurated it.
Mind you, this isn't a split request. I think it's germane here. I think there are enough thread-splits on the forum as it is.
And, again, you are too easily offended if you think this way. But the trouble seems to be that I don't think you do, and yet you CLAIM to espouse these standards.
The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.
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Grr! :heart:
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I think you're overthinking this, Ashar. :) My point is that, as humans mature, we (theoretically) reach a point where occasionally we have the thought, "hmm, maybe I shouldn't say out loud what I'm thinking." That might only be momentary, such as due to the social context, but we do it.
And frankly, not that it's any of your business, but I choose not to vote.
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It's my business that you choose to vote, if I say it is. And I usually do, 'cause I volunteer.
A filter is not a censor; one of those words applies to 'what's bad for society.' It matters what you call things, and it matters how things are defined.
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One of the benefits of living in a free society is that, no, it isn't.
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Disturbed? Very rarely, at least in the last decade. I occasionally encounter something that makes me wince, but that's more for "oh, no, you're going to regret that later" reasons (as in, someone's doing something WAY over the top).
What live-action Vampire: the Masquerade (yes, I was one of those) didn't inoculate me against, the freaking Giovanni Chronicles certainly did (especially the fourth. Anyone who thinks the nastier sorts of White Wolf vampire are twisted should try playing an eager-to-please ghoul).
And yet, people do still find ways to surprise me once in a while. Situations where someone's aim is to humiliate and degrade tend to produce stuff like that most often. It's not something that's happened in Eve that I can remember, though. I'll spare you the details.
Actually, the fact that I come up with such things myself from time to time is one of the reasons I hold the IC/OOC divide so dear and insist so strongly that, while my character is someone I can imagine, she is also someone I emphatically am not.
I can imagine an ancient, reptilian vampire whose favored pastime is abducting people and using fleshcrafting powers to disassemble them, still living, into a chest full of wax-bottomed dissection trays. I can imagine him mounting the face up on the underside of the lid, so that the victim can look down any time the chest is open and see his or her organs all spread out. I can imagine his obsession with observing every tick and twitch of the victim's facial expressions as he experiments to see how long he can keep his subjects alive in this state.
One at a time, mind you, the better to dedicate himself fully to each. He's spent centuries working on his technique.
I can imagine that, but I hope you can understand if I want a very nice clear line between me and Prospero (the vampire in question). Back when my wife and I were first dating, a friend of hers tried to get her ex-boyfriend to come back from Japan and "rescue" her from me because said friend couldn't distinguish between me and my characters. That friend thought I really was as twisted as the characters I play.
Best to keep that sort of incident to a minimum.