Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: kalaratiri on 08 Apr 2013, 10:30
-
Merged all 4 dev posts into one super thread :D Links to original threads can be found in the faction headings. Enjoy.
Welcome to the Tech 1 Battleship rebalance, fasten your seatbelts!
Some of the changes herein are significant, so I'm going to lay out our overall tiericide and balance principles at the top of each race's thread, and also provide ship-by-ship explanation. I encourage you to read both before hitting the caps lock key, you may find answers to some of your questions and concerns.
Tiericide -
Our effort to destroy ship tiers continues. With battleships, the tiers were most evident in HP amounts and price. All variations had an equal allocation of slots already (19), except drone bonused hulls or disruption hulls, which won’t change. As usual, we will be dividing battleships into roles rather than tiers. The distribution will be as follows: One 'Attack' Battleship for each race, and two 'Combat' Battleships for each race (except Caldari, who will retain the only 'Disruption' Battleship for the time being). With these new roles in mind, we will be adjusting hitpoint amounts for all combat battleships near the former tier 3 hitpoint numbers, while the attack hulls will sit closer to the former tier 2s. As with other ship classes, attack battleships will be faster, more agile, and will focus more on damage application and projection than their combat counterparts. Cost of production will be adjusted to reflect tiericide, but so far we have not settled on exact numbers.
Exciting roles for every ship and every race -
One of our main goals during this balance pass is to see that each battleship has a lot to offer, and that each race has access to all of Eve's environments. Formerly, the battleship line had strange overlaps and gaps which left certain races excluded from certain styles of play and other races with more than one option for a certain role. This new distribution should hopefully provide new options and excitement for players of all races.
I am breaking the post into four, by race, with the hope of isolating feedback. We look forward to hearing what you all have to say.
Without further ado:
GALLENTE (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2852997#post2852997)
Hyperion: Changed
Here's the new and improved Hyperion. Based off of your feedback, this new version goes from 8 turrets to 6, while doubling its damage bonus from 5% per level to 10%. It also gains a larger drone bandwidth and bay, a utility high, and keeps its much-needed mid slot.
If anything, I'm worried this is too strong, but it should be an extremely fun ship to use. Hope you guys approve.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Large Hybrid Turret damage
+7.5% Armor Repair amount
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M, 7L(+1); 6 turrets , 1 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG(+250), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 7500 / 8000 / 8500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125(+25) / 175(+75)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 485
Megathron: Changed
With the Hyperion moving to more of a combat/utility ship via its drones, heavy mid-slot allocation, and spare high, we felt the mega could now afford to move towards a completely dedicated gun boat. Instead of the former 8/5/6 utility focused set up, we now have a 7/4/8 hybrid damage machine that has sacrificed its utility high (which was often unused) to gain another low - giving it more access to damage, damage application/projection, or tank. It stays in its attack role and therefor retains the previously described increases to speed and agility. This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M, 8L(+1); 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 15500 PWG, 570 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 122(+7) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-50) / 75(-50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)
Dominix:
With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones) and moved it to a fully dedicated drone ship by adding a drone optimal and tracking bonus. We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones. It will of course also be stronger at short range using heavy drones. As a combat battleship, its received increased hitpoints across the board, increased mass (it got its mass lowered during the hybrid buff), increased cap pool, and increased sig.
We believe this is a very exciting direction for the Dominix, and hope you will too!
I also want to mention here that while the drone system overall needs looking at, we here on the balance team have some short term ideas for helping the usability of sentry drones – no timeframe on them as of yet, but its something we have in mind.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 9000 PWG, 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)
MINMATAR (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2853002#post2853002)
Maelstrom:
Like most of the other former tier 3s, the Maelstrom is very healthy in its current form and will not be changing.
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+7.5% bonus to Shield Boost Amount
Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 5L; 8 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 21000 PWG, 640 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000 / 7500 / 700
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .136 / 103600000 / 19.53s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Ladar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 460
Tempest: Changed
Updated based on feedback to make the Tempest Minmatar's second attack battleship. This keeps its sig down, lowers its mass slightly, at the cost of lower hp.
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 6L; 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG(+500), 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(+46) / 7300(+1089) / 6800(+259)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400(+87.5) / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .12 / 101050000(-2250000) / 16.81s(-.37s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km(+5k) / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength(+1)
Signature radius: 360(+20)
Typhoon: Changed
The flying garbage can is a very special ship. It seems to be very fondly regarded by most eve pilots, despite prohibitive skill point demands and minimal rewards. Our redesign here aims to honor the spirit of the typhoon while also providing a more focused base that will hopefully lead to more actual application.
It will lose the split weapon bonus (as all tech 1 ships have as part of the tiericide initiative) and will replace the projectile bonus with a missile explosion velocity bonus. Along with the addition of 6th launcher, the Typhoon will now be a very formidable damage dealer. Utility has always been one of the Typhoon's strong points, and it will be sacrificing some of this utility to take on such a strong attack role – this is a point for which we are paying close attention to your feedback.
While we are agreed that this version looks extremely fun and powerful, we also expect this to be sensitive for many players, especially those have heavily invested in making use of all three weapons platforms. If you’re one of those that has cherished access to projectiles, missiles, and drones, we would encourage you to remember that the Navy battleships, which will get looked at soon, will likely be able to fill some spaces created by the tech 1 rebalance.
It should also be mentioned that we hope to have a look at cruise missiles and torpedos in time for the summer expansion as well.
UPDATE: Based on feedback we are lowering the Typhoon's signature radius a bit, and also giving back its turrets(though they will not be bonused) to offer some more flexibility.
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 5 turrets , 6 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU(+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500(+289) / 6000(+531) / 6000(-211)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400(+400) / 1087s / 4.97 (+.3)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .11(-.006) / 103600000(-2000000) / 15.8s(-1.16s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 100(-75)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+5k) / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 19 Ladar Sensor Strength(+1)
Signature radius: 330(+10)
CALDARI (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2852991#post2852991)
Rokh:
The Rokh, like most of the former tier 3 battleships, is in a very healthy place currently. It hasn't been changed, except for a tweak to the resist bonus. This change is significant, and we are going to dedicate an entire thread to discussing the power of resistance bonuses later in the day. If you want to talk about this bonus here, in relation to the Rokh specifically, feel free. The general idea from our end is that the current bonus to resistance is one of the most powerful ship bonuses in the game. It adds to the power of local tanks (active and passive) as well as remote tanks, which has consistently positioned ships with this bonus at the center of some of the most powerful gameplay available. We feel that the Rokh is a good example of this powerful gameplay, and expect it to thrive despite this change.
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to large Hybrid Turret optimal range
+4% Shield resistances per level (-1% per level)
Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 5L; 8 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 15000 PWG, 780 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8500 / 7000 / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 6000 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 89 / .136 / 105300000 / 19.85s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 75 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 500
Raven: Changed (slightly)
The (cavalry)Raven is becoming the Caldari attack battleship. Its bonuses were a natural fit already, and although its giving up some base hitpoints, the substantial increase to speed and added mid should open up plenty of new opportunities for Caldari missile pilots without hurting anyone who was already happy using it.
Its also gaining power grid and CPU output so that torp focused fits and fits that want to use propulsion mods are more easily accessible. Keep in mind that we will be taking a more detailed look at battleship sized missile systems in the near future.
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(-500) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)
Scorpion: Changed
The Scorpion, while being an oddity in the battleship line up, seems fairly happy. We have adjusted its hitpoints slightly, so they would roughly match the attack set, but otherwise there are no changes.
UPDATE: Based on player feedback we are going to let the Scorpion trade one of its high slots for another low slot.
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
25% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal and falloff range
25% bonus to ECM Burst range
Slot layout: 5H(-1), 8M, 5L(+1); 4 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 9000 PWG, 750 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(+359) / 5500 / 6500(+1031)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1087s / 5.06
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .116 / 103600000 / 16.66s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 480
AMARR (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2852982#post2852982)
A preface for Amarr: This ship line presented a special sort of obstacle. There were three ships with a heavy amount of overlap, all focusing on armor tanks and energy weapon damage. With the prices associated with tiers being removed, that overlap would be even more obvious, and likely, the apoc and geddon would fall into further disuse. That said, both of them are among eve's most iconic ships. We have decided to make big changes to them both, while hopefully preserving access to any use an Amarr pilot had prior.
Abaddon:
The Abaddon, price aside, was clearly the most dominant of the Amarr line-up. We've left it totally in-tact as your go-to laser brawler, except for the resist bonus tweak. This change is significant, and we are going to dedicate an entire thread to discussing the power of resistance bonuses later in the day. If you want to talk about this bonus here, in relation to the Abaddon specifically, feel free. The general idea from our end is that the current bonus to resistance is one of the most powerful ship bonuses in the game. It adds to the power of local tanks (active and passive) as well as remote tanks, which has consistently positioned ships with this bonus at the center of some of the most powerful gameplay available to combat pilots. We feel that the Abaddon is strong enough to perform perfectly well with the slight loss in resist.
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Large Energy Turret damage
+4% Armor resistances (-1% per level)
Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 7L; 8 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 21000 PWG, 560 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000 / 8500 / 8000
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 6375 / 1250s / 5.1
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 89 / .14 / 125000000 / 20.03s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Radar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 470
Apocalypse: Changed
We decided to use the Apocalypse as the secondary laser platform, rather than the Armageddon for two main reasons. Firstly, one had to have drones, and the Armageddon already did. Secondly, the Apocalypse's optimal range bonus was unique and was already providing a niche (albeit small) and we didn't want to destroy that. After a few iterations we've decided to remove the cap use bonus and add a tracking bonus to the Apocalypse, making it a king for damage application. It will also be Amarr's Attack battleship, meaning it has received increased base speed, agility, lowered signature resolution, and slightly lowered hitpoints. It is also getting an increase to power grid and CPU so that beams are a more viable option in the future.
There is some concern that the new Apoc will have a significant cap weakness, which will make it too similar to the Abaddon. We've lowered the base cap, but raised the recharge rate some too compensate. We're hoping that this ship will be exciting enough to offset any cap-based difficulty, but will be paying close attention to feedback.
UPDATE: Based on feedback concerns about Apocalypse cap I've given back a bit of its total cap pool, bringing its cap recharge up to almost 7cap/sec. Its also gained just a bit of armor hp. We will keep on eye on the cap situation throughout testing.
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret optimal range
+7.5% Large Energy Turret tracking speed (replaced large energy turret cap use)
Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 7L; 8 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 21000 PWG(+500), 540 CPU(+35)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6000(-211) / 7000(-500) / 7000(+359)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 7000(-500) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .119(-.017) / 97100000 / 16.02s (-2.29s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 73km(+5.5k) / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Radar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)
Armageddon: Changed (slightly)
This is a fun one. Bet you guys didn't think my first two projects would be to slow down the Talos and throw the old Armageddon out the window! But! I think its the best thing for the race line overall. What we've done here is make the Armageddon an echo to the new dragoon destroyer. It makes sense for Amarr to have a battleship variation that rewards players who've trained for dragoon -> arbitrator -> prophecy, and with the neut range bonus, the Armageddon should be a huge payoff. As the Armageddon is falling under 'combat' it will receive a substantial hitpoint boost, sensor strength boost, sig increase, and speed decrease.
While we understand that this is a very powerful ship, it should not be oppressive. Hopefully it will offer a new type of challenge to fly and fly against. To anyone who is very sad to see the old Armageddon go, I encourage to you consider that if left the same, it would have been even more crowded by the Abaddon as a result of the price adjustment than it already was. Again, we look forward to your feedback.
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to Drone damage and Hit Points (replaced large energy turret rate of fire)
+10% Energy Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range (replaced large energy turret cap use)
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M(+1), 7L(-1); 5 turrets(-2) , 5 launchers(+5)
Fittings: 13500 PWG(-3000), 550 CPU(+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(+1331) / 8500(+1859) / 8000(+1789)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6200(+887.5) / 1087s / 5.7
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 100(-5) / .13(+.002) / 105200000 / 18.96s (+.29)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375(+250)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Radar Sensor Strength (+4)
Signature radius: 450 (+80)
-
All of my Rage at the changed to the Armageddon :bash:
-
It's a bhaalgorn + phoon + dominix. Inb4 instalocking neut camps.
-
New phoon and pest look awesome. Not sure about the geddon just yet, but I like the ideas I'm having about it. :D
EDIT: almost forgot to mention \o/ at the new mega
-
Dat miniBhaal.
Also, inb4 slowcat Domis.
-
TBH, one of the biggest winners is the Raven. That 7th mid is a serious bonus.
-
I'm a laser 'geddon addict, too, so I'm a little upset at what they've done to my favorite glass cannon. On the other hand, I like the idea of it being a little more like a Bhaalgorn. On the gripping hand, they also didn't mention if the changes will also be applied to the faction versions of the ships. Might be a good time to buy up navy 'geddons...
-
They did mention under the Phoon changes that the Navy editions will be different to the T1, and they may use them to fill any gaps in the meta :)
-
Urgh. I didn't notice the "navy ships will be looked at soon" part. I don't have high hopes for the poor navy 'geddon...
-
The Navy Geddon is honestly rather cool where ti is, so they may decide to leave it as a laser boat.
-
Jesus God start stockpiling Armageddons.
Geddon will be ridiculously OP.
My Bhaal is going to be gathering dust with such a cheap alternative. You can field what, 4 or 5 of these for the cost of one decently fit bhaal?
These things are going to dominate so hard. Extra mid slot? MJD, neut you shit, drone insanity.
This ship will be -mean- as currently bonused.
-
Jesus God start stockpiling Armageddons.
Geddon will be ridiculously OP.
My Bhaal is going to be gathering dust with such a cheap alternative. You can field what, 4 or 5 of these for the cost of one decently fit bhaal?
These things are going to dominate so hard. Extra mid slot? MJD, neut you shit, drone insanity.
This ship will be -mean- as currently bonused.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/TristanZR105/austin-powers-4-more-about-dr-evil.jpg)
Amarr Victor!
-
Direct crosspost from FHC, where people are calling the death of triage.
Neut range buff on the Geddon just makes it very strong vs enemy logi, recons and general kiters. Don't get how it corresponds to a triage nerf when
1) Neut amount hasn't been increased compared to a regular neuting Abaddon
2) In fact it's actually decreased as it only has 7 high slots now compared to 8 for the Abaddon
Don't need neut range to neut a triage carrier as it's hardly going to move away before you can close in those extra 13km (~25 currently, ~38 after changes).
-
they are going to have to kill that 4th mid slot and give it cpu issues again for real, it just looks too too nasty as currently proposed.
Overall though these changes are pretty solid!
Yay for Torp/Cruise updates.
Yay for most ship tweaks.
The -1% resist bonus bothers me for Rokh/Abaddon but meh.
-
Yes this will absolutely replace the current neut-apoc capital capacitor muncher setups.
Also the neut apocs aren't adding DPS to fights. These new geddons will do that work and have drone damage bonuses. It's foul-foul and scary good.
T1 fits for this with gatecamps and sentry blobs in mind.... oh the horror.
-
Ehh. I'm hopeful. Don't like the resist bonus change though.
-
Oh, and the vagabond just got royally screwed. You can't kite with no cap.
-
As much as I love flying a Vagabond... *giggle*...
-
So, the geddon looks like the new phoon, I guess? Not sure how I feel about that, lots of good memories with the old laser geddon.
On the other hand, could be lots of good memories with this. Not sure about the rest, been out of the game too long.
-
I think the phoon is the new phoon. Better tank, 6th launcher and can still have 2 heavy neuts of it's own (fitting three was always a pain). The explosion velocity bonus also means that torps will be hitting for far better damage. And in a direct phoon v geddon, I would take the phoon.
-
Goodbye split weapon ships, an under appreciated style of design ... :<
-
Goodbye split weapon ships, an under appreciated style of design ... :<
Nope thats what the Geddon is now
-
Goodbye split weapon ships, an under appreciated style of design ... :<
Nope thats what the Geddon is now
Split weapon in the context of having one bonus for each weapon system. The Geddon is basically a drone boat with a neutralizer bonus, not a laser/missile hybrid/projectile projectile/laser hybrid/laser etcetra system. Essentially previous split hulls may have the split weapon slots still, but the crushing difference in not having both bonuses breaks the split setups in half.
-
Goodbye split weapon ships, an under appreciated style of design ... :<
Nope thats what the Geddon is now
Split weapon in the context of having one bonus for each weapon system. The Geddon is basically a drone boat with a neutralizer bonus, not a laser/missile hybrid/projectile projectile/laser hybrid/laser etcetra system. Essentially previous split hulls may have the split weapon slots still, but the crushing difference in not having both bonuses breaks the split setups in half.
Scythe Fleet Issue. heh.
(I shouldn't laugh, it's actually pretty great. 90m sig radius *drool*)
-
Torpneut geddons (or AC/neut geddons) honestly sound like a bunch of fun.
-
I think Geddon gangs will munch phoon gangs all day long; too versatile with fitting options now. So many top slot to play with between RR / Neuting / Projectiles / Missiles and then the full drone damage.
The new phoons are nice don't get me wrong but unless they are all torp/smartbomb fit specifically for anti-geddon work they are going to melt.
-
So the new Geddon is going to replace the old Typhoon, but with a neut bonus ?
-
I'm just going to nano my phoons and put cruise missiles on them \o/
-
I'm just going to nano my phoons and put cruise missiles on them \o/
I think Phoon wolfpacks will be quite scary depending how the speed fits work out. Torps are going to get a huge buff, I can feel it.
-
Lyn: It seems more like the Typhoon is being cemented into its current standard (?) role of torps and neuts, while the Geddon is being made into a cheaper Bhaalgorn.
You can put guns or missiles on the new Geddon, but even with drones I'm not sure if it'll get more DPS than an equivalent Typhoon.
-
Lyn: It seems more like the Typhoon is being cemented into its current standard (?) role of torps and neuts, while the Geddon is being made into a cheaper Bhaalgorn.
You can put guns or missiles on the new Geddon, but even with drones I'm not sure if it'll get more DPS than an equivalent Typhoon.
I think you are correct here the DPS will be a good deal lower, but we are assuming the utility flexibility will make up for it. Going to be a lot of fitting-fu to get cap xfers and RR xfers worked out to the right levels but you are going to be looking at some awfully nasty spider setups with huge survivability but lowered dps. But with the neuts it's not like targets are going to be going anywhere, and half of the weapons you'll be facing will be neuted out.
-
That was the idea I was getting at. If you want DPS-with-neuts, you go with Typhoon gangs.
If you want to make cap-hungry fleets shit their pants, you use Armageddons instead.
-
Okay.
-
Domi changes ok-ish
Mega changes ok-ish
Hype changes wth are you trying to achieve.
Cause domi "might" be a sniping platform, but at TiDi >30% deploying and engaing with drones is a pain.
-
Um.. I'm going to need to wait for Namamai's EFT fu to confirm this, but I think the raven is going to be.. fast. Like, MWD'ing BC kind of fast.
THE RETURN OF THE CAVALRY RAVEN (hopefully)
-
Too bad that the missiles are faster too, so no torpball. Still, kinda like it.
-
I think one of the big takeaways is we will be seeing a LOT more torps and maybe cruise missiles in PVP, as opposed to...zero now.
This means Defender missiles and the suggested missile disruption ewar need to be implemented as a counter. Otherwise... gonna be painful.
-
Smartbombs still work against missiles?
-
Yes they do.
Also, cap batteries. Reduce neut amount. Expect more of them.
-
I am not sure how I feel about the Disruption Battleship (Scorpion) being the same HP as Attack Battleships without the maneuverability of an ABS.
-
I'd personally love to see defender missiles come back into use.
-
I like the Geddon and Phoon changes. The Geddon might get some use now rather than playing second fiddle to the Baddon.
I think the Gallente changes are bad. Mostly the Hyperion.
-
Originally for T3 battleships the Amarrians were expecting something akin to the new Geddon instead of the Abaddon.
But :psyccp:
-
Torp geddon is not particularly OP actually. It has some rather major cpu problems.
(http://www.bittervet.com/eve/torpgeddon.png)
-
I think one of the big takeaways is we will be seeing a LOT more torps and maybe cruise missiles in PVP, as opposed to...zero now.
This means Defender missiles and the suggested missile disruption ewar need to be implemented as a counter. Otherwise... gonna be painful.
I've tried using torpedoes in PvP. They can't hit anything under a dreadnought at full stop for full damage. Unless CCP buffs torps, there is never a reason, EVER, to fly a Raven if you can fly a Megathron or, with this change, an Apocalypse.
Also, the resist change? Utterly fucking stupid, and looks like it's the brainchild of someone who has never tried using one of the resist BS's. The Abaddon does less damage than the Megathron or Armageddon, and runs out of cap faster than the Armageddon or Apoc. There's almost no reason to fly it now, after this, there will be no reason to fly it at all, ever. The Rokh is also a complete piece of crap compared with its competitors right now, with the Megathron, Armageddon, and Abaddon being better at close-up than it is, and the Maelstrom, Tempest, and Apocalypse being better at sniping. With this nerf, you might as well delete it from the game.
As for the Typhoon, well, it's about time. :P Not sure how I feel about the Armageddon being completely made over, will need to see how that turns out. Dominix was already really powerful, it will probably be OP now, but that's ok, since I have one or two. :twisted: Seriously, Domi will ruin small gangs if done right after this. As for the Megathron, I don't know why they are trying to break what's just fine, but CCP does that.
Overall, I think this patch is largely a nerf to the areas where battleships shine (reliable damage dealing and tanking) and a buff to areas where a T2 or pirate ship is already better, and will continue to be better. IOW, battleships will remain largely irrelevant.
-
So as far as I can tell, so far, Gallente have been utterly shafted, Caldari have gotten slapped pretty hard, Amarrians aren't looking too pretty and the Minmatar are pretty much the only ones who came out of this with any improvements.
-
So as far as I can tell, so far, Gallente have been utterly shafted, Caldari have gotten slapped pretty hard, Amarrians aren't looking too pretty and the Minmatar are pretty much the only ones who came out of this with any improvements.
Not really, Domi change is awesome. Hope they drop the utility High on the Mega for for a mid so it becomes 7/5/7. Hype I dunno, I want 5 mids but I think it might'll cope. Just less viable solo.
Not sure how the Amarr aren't looking pretty from this change. Tracking bonus on that Apoc ftw, Abaddon hardly touched and the geddon becoming a beast.
Caldari; Rokh, again untouched. Raven; more fittings 7th mid and faster. Scorpion; more HP.
Matari; Nano-Pest might not be viable anymore against the Phoon which comes awesome and less SP intensive. Maelstrom like all old tier 3s isn't changed.
On the whole loving the early ideas they have brought to Battleships.
-Deadie
-
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2858150#post2858150
Hi again Gallente friends!
We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.
Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.
Thanks again for the input!
Hyperion and Megathron stats have been removed from the OP and replaced with "Coming Soon...", will do the same here and update when the new stats are out.
-
Also, a look into Rise's thoughts on the original Hyp/Mega changes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2856020#post2856020
I must say, you guys do have a theatrical flair.
Look its 10pm and I'm trying to keep caught up on this, but I promise tomorrow we will go back through this Gal lineup and see if we can resolve some of the frustration.
I know I tried to lay out our intentions in the OP, but I want to lay it out again, just to make sure we're on the same page. I understand that many of you here aren't satisfied so we'll go back over it tomorrow and look at our options. In the mean time maybe this will help.
In the Megathron and the Hyperion, we had two ships that more or less shared some space. They were both armor focused blaster brawlers. The mega was armor focused because of its slot layout - but it had increased utility from one extra high slot and a larger drone bay, and also had an easier time applying damage because of the tracking bonus. Then we had the Hyperion which was bonused to look more like a heavy brawler - focused completely on damage and tank, because of having no utility high, less drones, and a tank focused bonus instead of tracking.
In my personal experience, I felt both ships came up short because they didn't play to their strengths enough. The mega seemed like it wanted to be more like a tempest, less concerned with tank, more focused on utility. A heavy tackler, a hit and run ship (MJD), a ship that could move fast and gank if supported. People tended to run light armor tanks (2 plates 2eanms 1dcu 2 mag stab) as the basic setup, but sometimes tried active setups which usually used more lows for tank. The hyp on the other hand always had almost all lows dedicated to tanking because of only having 6, and so its damage struggled to compete (unless it was some kind of shield fit).
The plan here was to fill in both ships' strength. The hyp would provide more power in pure tank and dps by having an extra low for mag stab or TE or resists, and it would sacrifice some utility. The mega would have more utility, again, playing to its strength - and the increased damage from turrets would make up for the lost low somewhat.
I can see many of you don't agree, and thats fine. I want you guys to love these ships so we're going to spend some time going over feedback and see what looks like a good direction to go.
I think if at all possible, we'd like to keep the armor rep bonus on the Hyperion. Its just too late in the ship line to toss out Gallente's signature tank bonus, despite the fact that many of you might want us to.
We are willing to consider many of the suggestions so far. Rolling another bonus into the rep bonus (like rep cap use) could be possible, changing the slot allocation, and adjusting fittings to give it more room are all on the table.
Thanks for the feedback, it won't be ignored.
-
And a response to the Minmatar feedback: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2859548#post2859548
Hey guys
We're going to post a few tweaks tomorrow based on feedback from all the threads, minmatar included.
To answer a couple things though -
I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.
As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.
Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.
Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)
-
Caldari; Rokh, again untouched. Raven; more fittings 7th mid and faster. Scorpion; more HP.
Did I miss something? I'm pretty sure the Rokh loses some resists, the Raven loses a huge chunk of EHP, and Scorpions are only bait anymore anyway.
After this patch, the only reason to fly any Caldari battleship will be if you haven't trained anything else. But that's no real change.
-
Caldari; Rokh, again untouched. Raven; more fittings 7th mid and faster. Scorpion; more HP.
Did I miss something? I'm pretty sure the Rokh loses some resists, the Raven loses a huge chunk of EHP, and Scorpions are only bait anymore anyway.
After this patch, the only reason to fly any Caldari battleship will be if you haven't trained anything else. But that's no real change.
Rokh fleets with rails continue to be completely boss. Just wait until the Torp / Cruise buff comes in you'll see this very differently. Ravens.... everywhere.
-
Did I miss something? I'm pretty sure the Rokh loses some resists, the Raven loses a huge chunk of EHP, and Scorpions are only bait anymore anyway.
After this patch, the only reason to fly any Caldari battleship will be if you haven't trained anything else. But that's no real change.
Correct, I should have said hardly touched. I doubt when the numbers come in the -1% isn't going to have much of an affect. Didn't actually see the HP decrease for the Raven first time around, will have to play with a modded EFT to see how badly it affects it.
-
The 1% resist reduction on the Abaddon and Rokh turn out (unsurprisingly) to be a 5% reduction in ehp. So still lots.
-
Ridiculous nerf for Abaddon / Rokh.
-
Ridiculous nerf for Abaddon / Rokh.
The 1% resist reduction on the Abaddon and Rokh turn out (unsurprisingly) to be a 5% reduction in ehp. So still lots.
While the EHP loss isn't trivial, I don't think it's a deal breaker. They're still good ships in their own right (I know the Rokh get the short end of the stick, but I've always liked it). I think given their uses, at least when I was playing, I don't think much will change except maybe seeing more of the other boats floating around now.
-
Honestly, considering the incredible potency of reps under high resists, I think this is a good move. Yes, it reduces the ehp slightly (220k down to 209k on the Abaddon, the end is nigh) but they're still going to be battleships with the highest resists (and therefore large fleet survivability) and biggest logi tanks of anything non-T2.
-
All of my Rage at the changed to the Armageddon :bash:
My lovely laser boat!
YOU MOTHERFUCKERS :bash: :psyccp:
I like that they change things around to have more use out of different ships - after all Amarr basically had 3 different flavors of laser boats and nothing else going for it in the battleship range.
But why not the Apoc for the missile/Drone/Neut boat? The Armageddon is the epitome, iconic lazor-beast.
-
All of my Rage at the changed to the Armageddon :bash:
My lovely laser boat!
YOU MOTHERFUCKERS :bash: :psyccp:
I like that they change things around to have more use out of different ships - after all Amarr basically had 3 different flavors of laser boats and nothing else going for it in the battleship range.
But why not the Apoc for the missile/Drone/Neut boat? The Armageddon is the epitome, iconic lazor-beast.
Because the geddon can already field 5 heavies and it's bhaalgorn cousin has a neut bonus is my guess.
-
To my eyes, the huge golden hulls firing lazors with their mighty presence have always been apocalypses. The apocalypse is the epitome of Amarr supremacy and golden fleets.
Seeing it turned into a drone/neuting platform... Too blood raider to my tastes.
-
To my eyes, the huge golden hulls firing lazors with their mighty presence have always been apocalypses. The apocalypse is the epitome of Amarr supremacy and golden fleets.
Seeing it turned into a drone/neuting platform... Too blood raider to my tastes.
Just as well it's the 'Geddon that's becoming the neut boat then ;)
-
(http://i.imgur.com/04aF9tN.jpg?1)
heh heh heh
-
To my eyes, the huge golden hulls firing lazors with their mighty presence have always been apocalypses. The apocalypse is the epitome of Amarr supremacy and golden fleets.
Seeing it turned into a drone/neuting platform... Too blood raider to my tastes.
Just as well it's the 'Geddon that's becoming the neut boat then ;)
We already have the Bhaalgorn, so... It sounds more natural. vOv
-
Eh.
The changes to the Armageddon as listed are going to require buffs to the Bhaalgorn to make it worth flying.
A single Armageddon may have less neuting power than a single Bhaalgorn, but it will have more range to do its thing and be far cheaper - cheaper to the point that it will still be cheaper to field the number of Armageddons equivalent to a single Bhaalgorn (two or three, if I've done my math right).
The web range bonus that the Bhaalgorn has doesn't really outweigh the utility of a neut/nos range bonus.
-
Bhaalgorn won't be worth spit now.
Why pay billions when you can do the same thing for 1/5 the price?
-
Bhaalgorn won't be worth spit now.
Why pay billions when you can do the same thing for 1/5 the price?
You can't.
Bhaalgorn with BS 5 neuts as much as 12.5 neuts.
Geddon with BS 5 neuts as much as 7 neuts, at longer range. For killing triage/capitals you're considerably better off with the bhaalgorn. For putting the hurt on kiters and logi, the geddon will have a role.
Sure, you can blob geddons to neut out caps, but hell, you used to be able to do that with hurricanes.
-
Bhaalgorn won't be worth spit now.
Why pay billions when you can do the same thing for 1/5 the price?
Because it doesn't do the same? Bhaal has 12.25 effective neuts compared to the geddon's 7. Geddon is great if you want a cheap neuting ship but it won't compare to the Bhaalgorn.
fakeedit: sniped by kala
-
Have you guys seen the raven?
*drool*
(http://i.imgur.com/MAIxYWM.jpg)
Look how fast it is!
-
Two Geddons is still less than half the price of a single Bhaalgorn, guys. That is the disparity Silas and I are talking about.
There's no reason to field a Bhaalgorn when you can just throw two Geddons at the problem for less than half the price.
-
Oh, also: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?11380-Odyssey-Changes-Rebalanced-Navy-Cruisers-T1-Cruisers-%28and-EFT-files%29&p=748288&viewfull=1#post748288
For those of you who like EFT as much as I do :D
-
Neut range ridiculously more important than amount in 90% of pvp, unless you are sitting still on a capital trying to suck them dry.
Yes the Bhaal sucks more cap, but it doesn't suck 10x more cap.
For what I currently pay for a decently fit bhaal I'll fit up 3 new geddons and an ashimmu and eat your lunch every day of the week.
-
For a similarly fit geddon (DB Neuts, faction tank, etc.) You'll be lucky to fit two geddons for the price of one bhaalgorn. Note that mineral requirements might be heading upwards for current tier 1 hulls.
-
For a similarly fit geddon (DB Neuts, faction tank, etc.) You'll be lucky to fit two geddons for the price of one bhaalgorn. Note that mineral requirements might be heading upwards for current tier 1 hulls.
I think you are missing my point in that I don't need to similarly fit it.
I can fit many of them cheaply for less money in total and outperform the fancy ship.
As someone who currently uses the fancy ship in pvp it makes me sadface. It's not so special anymore.
-
For a similarly fit geddon (DB Neuts, faction tank, etc.) You'll be lucky to fit two geddons for the price of one bhaalgorn. Note that mineral requirements might be heading upwards for current tier 1 hulls.
I think you are missing my point in that I don't need to similarly fit it.
I can fit many of them cheaply for less money in total and outperform the fancy ship.
As someone who currently uses the fancy ship in pvp it makes me sadface. It's not so special anymore.
I'm not missing the point at all, I think you're just falling for the hyperbole. You don't gain that much range from the Bhaalgorn unless you do faction fit it. 8km is rather trival considering you'll get an extra 5 neuts worth of cap warfare onto your target.
I also think that a range bonus really isn't that overpowered. Take Kala's two neut setup; no one really bats an eyelid at two neuts these days. And kiting gangs can operate well past that range. (lol rapier/huginn and Arazu/lachesis keeping you webbed/pointed from 60km).
It's a nice bonus to the Geddon, for real. But it isn't taking the Bhaalgorn's place as neut king.
-
Not dethroning on a 1v1 comparison by any means but these ships for the price scale to laughable overpowered effectiveness. Whereas before you would see small numbers of a specialized / expensive ship for that kind of work now you are going to see cheap BS gangs flooded with extremely effective and long ranged neuting.
It's going to be horribad for people on the other side of these things. If this goes through as currently planned I promise the tears will fill oceans.
-
I'm just not seeing it but time will tell. Your small numbered gangs are still going to need the specialised / expensive ships to remain effective and kitchen sink fleets and still going to have a ton of shitfit geddons thinking they are OP.
-
A few things:
The Rokh is the #1 ship in the game this week on Eve Kill and it is generally thereabouts in the top ten. It is an awesome battleship. It will continue to be an awesome battleship. All is not doom and gloom for the Rokh.
The Amarr changes are rad and each battleship gets a defined role instead of treading on each other's toes. I love the new Geddon to death.
It will invalidate the Bhaalgorn for a while, but faction ships are next up for balance so that will change eventually as well. The metagame keeps changing but that's what makes things interesting.
They only race to not get much love is the Gallente, but mostly the Hyp. I don't mind the Domi changes.
-
If this change is going to lower the demand for Bhaalgorns, hence bringing the price of them down, and you fly Bhaalgorns in PVP, how is that bad?
It seems to me that those who build and sell Bhaalgorns have more to worry about than those who buy and fly them. vOv
-
I'm sure they'll be redoing the pirate faction BS's soon anyway.
-
I wait now only for news on the Megathron changes, I understand they were pretty shit earlier so they are re-doing the ideas.
The Geddon was to me always the epitome laser-boat, and however awesome it may be I will always miss it. As far as PVP went I always saw the Geddon upping the Apoc in damage and being similar in tank, the Apoc however had the range to be awesome fleet ships. Honestly if they had changed the Geddon for the Abbadon, the latter even have the drone-bay looking openings in front and the size to suggest large drone-bays.
In all however I'm not to keen on the Domi either. Ideas are good, I think, but it just seems to have to many possible weaknesses to it and losing some of it's versatility. I'm guessing however we will have to wait for the drone fixes to see how it will develop and what the final results on these ships will be.
-
In all however I'm not to keen on the Domi either. Ideas are good, I think, but it just seems to have to many possible weaknesses to it and losing some of it's versatility. I'm guessing however we will have to wait for the drone fixes to see how it will develop and what the final results on these ships will be.
See I don't get this either. What versatility have you lost? You can still fit neuts on it, you can still RR medic it, you can still fill all your EW. I'm with Prom on this in the official thread. It is a very rare sight you see a Domi pilot use it's Large Hybrid bonus. It's either medium blasters or neuts. I won't miss the loss of that bonus and I'm the one of the few who used it!
-
See, I consider the fact you lose the option of using large guns a 'loss of versatility' among other things, because now you have no excuse not to fit medium guns or neuts on it. Ofc this also builds into the issue I have where they did not change the domi to actually make using it's large gun bonuses a more viable option. First time I used the domi with no large guns intentionally I though it was a great idea to focus it on other things as the large-gun approach was lackluster, then to find out it's basically the de-facto standard approach and I was seriously :cry: about the whole thing.
I had hoped they would fix the domi to have better reasons to use the large gun approach, I guess I'm simply depressed that it's not going to happen.
Ever.
-
Most of my rage over the Geddon is the fact that I will have to re fit all of them which is a pain in the ass AND it basicly maked my Bhaal useless other than that the changes are fine
-
As an Amarr pilot that had already skipped lasers for drones, I think I'm okay with the new Geddon.
-
I've been coming to terms with it, too. It does make the 'geddon more in line with the Curse and Pilgrim.
-
In all however I'm not to keen on the Domi either. Ideas are good, I think, but it just seems to have to many possible weaknesses to it and losing some of it's versatility. I'm guessing however we will have to wait for the drone fixes to see how it will develop and what the final results on these ships will be.
See I don't get this either. What versatility have you lost? You can still fit neuts on it, you can still RR medic it, you can still fill all your EW. I'm with Prom on this in the official thread. It is a very rare sight you see a Domi pilot use it's Large Hybrid bonus. It's either medium blasters or neuts. I won't miss the loss of that bonus and I'm the one of the few who used it!
I think I've flown a non-Large Blaster Dominix once in the last three years. I fly the Domi probably more than any other BS.
The Geddon will mostly obsolete the Bhaalgorn, and in a lot of situations the Curse--my corp is already coming up with nano-shield versions that are reasonably and scarily viable in slower shield gangs. It doesn't have the webs that the Bhaal has, but lately the Bhaal is mostly used as an anti-triage platform, and the Geddon will do that for much less now. It lacks the TD bonus of the Curse, but I think I'm the only person in EVE Online who runs a dual TD shield setup on the Curse (nevermind not fitting something retarded like HMLs on it), so that won't factor into most people's calculations either. Not sure how I feel about that.
I liked the Hyperion changes, but the qq on the forums took those back, so who knows. As it is the Hyperion is a ship with an impressive local tank for taking on small gangs by itself, but anemic damage that results in the small gang getting backup while you slowly run yourself out of cap charges and fail to kill anything. Adding a low opened up more options for damage output that may have addressed that issue.
The Apocalypse is unfortunate in that it does not replace the Armageddon effectively (or the Abaddon for that matter). It's a sub-par laser platform that has extreme capacitor issues (without the fitting for a heavy injector) and is unable to fit Tachyons.
I think in theory the ideas are good, but in practice they leave something to be desired. Have spent most of the day tinkering in a hacked EFT client with the updated stats and am overall unimpressed.
That said, the new Dominix can be rather insane. Already have a fit with over 1k DPS at 40ish km and 110k EHP give or take.
EDIT: I take it back, I've flown the Megathron and Machariel slightly more than the Dominix: http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=165044004&view=ships_weapons
-
In all however I'm not to keen on the Domi either. Ideas are good, I think, but it just seems to have to many possible weaknesses to it and losing some of it's versatility. I'm guessing however we will have to wait for the drone fixes to see how it will develop and what the final results on these ships will be.
See I don't get this either. What versatility have you lost? You can still fit neuts on it, you can still RR medic it, you can still fill all your EW. I'm with Prom on this in the official thread. It is a very rare sight you see a Domi pilot use it's Large Hybrid bonus. It's either medium blasters or neuts. I won't miss the loss of that bonus and I'm the one of the few who used it!
Spot on. If 90% of people using the ship aren't using it's bonus, bonus needs be changed perhaps.
-
Apoc... meh.
I'm going to go ahead and say it; Amarr need their jet-black, armor tanking, torp lobbing KHANID ABADDON.
5% Torp Damage per level
5% Armor Resist or 10% Armor HP per level.
I'd be super ok if the Apoc became the sole dedicated laser BS and the Abaddon switched to missiles honestly.
Just wait for the torp buff.
-
They updated the Gallente and Minmatar lineups.
Not a fan of the new set of changes for the Megathron. I really liked what they had planned for it with the first iteration.
Letting the Typhoon have its unbonused turrets back confuses me, tbh.
-
OP updated.
-
Additional post for the updated EFT files for those who like these things: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1304/031013d_Odyssey.zip
-
My pants are wet from the new hype.
-
Proof enough forum bitching to CCP by the masses grants great rewards.
They'll have to tone that Hyp down.
What's the DPS math on large blasters + drones on these two ships?
-
(http://i.imgur.com/q6aUFfX.jpg)
and the mega
(http://i.imgur.com/cqza6ZN.jpg)
-
(http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/DeadRow/Hype.png)
Dat CPU
-
Dude, your cap boosters ;)
-
pffft cap booster 25s ftw.
-
Why would you not run an Ancillary Armor Rep on a Hype? I can't think of a single reason not to.
-
Why would you not run an Ancillary Armor Rep on a Hype? I can't think of a single reason not to.
^
-
Even after you are back to reduced effectiveness when charges are out the overall math I think still gives you a significant edge.
-
And frankly, if you're not winning the fight by the time you're back to reduced effectiveness, you're probably not going to. In my experience in a Hyperion, you win the fight before you have to reload your injectors or you don't win the fight. Not necessarily because you cap out, but because by the time that happens, backup has landed to kill you.
-
And frankly, if you're not winning the fight by the time you're back to reduced effectiveness, you're probably not going to. In my experience in a Hyperion, you win the fight before you have to reload your injectors or you don't win the fight. Not necessarily because you cap out, but because by the time that happens, backup has landed to kill you.
Troof.
Also with active tanks its always more of a 'die instantly' or 'never going to die'
-
Well I was tossing up using an AAR. I haven't been sold on them as a module myself but would consider giving it ago.
-
Large Ancillary Armour Repairer. It's at the top of the list of reppers in EFT.
-
Large Ancillary Armour Repairer. It's at the top of the list of reppers in EFT.
I read Bacc's comment wrong and have since corrected myself D:
-
this new version goes from 8 turrets to 6
http://youtu.be/f6QBqCNuB3g
Fuck that fucking fucker fuck shit FUCK.
I am so sick of seeing 8 visual weapon hardpoints but only X number of actual fitting points.
-
this new version goes from 8 turrets to 6
http://youtu.be/f6QBqCNuB3g
Fuck that fucking fucker fuck shit FUCK.
I am so sick of seeing 8 visual weapon hardpoints but only X number of actual fitting points.
I have had similar feelings for a long time, one of the first instances I can recall actually being aware of was the artwork for the Harbinger - EIGHT FUCKING GUNS.
And it was modeled to have room for them too. Despite the fact that you could get 7 turrets on it my Harbinger fits almost exclusively only had 6 because the last, miss-matched turret was so fucking ugly to look at, universally making nearly all my Harbinger fittings a strange combination of 6 of the largest caliber guns combined with a good tank or awesome weapons upgrading.
When the Harbinger was changed to only being able to use 6 guns I was actually very happy for the above reason.
So let me join in the echo here: FUUUUUUUUUU- :bash: :psyccp:
-
I too am excited for the possbily-OP NewGeddon, and have made a fit. With the option of simply being able to neut off any close-range people warp scrambling you, the MJD makes a perfect escape tool. Unleash some carnage with all that DPS and buffer and then blink out! Thoughts?
Da fit:
[spoiler](http://i.imgur.com/tWaIoEA.jpg)[/spoiler]
-
Why are the Amarrians using missiles in Battleships when the only other T1 ship that used to have them was the Inquisitor?
Is there some initiative within the Navies of the factions to turn all the ships of all the factions into similar ships with racial 'flavor' in them instead of having a faction fleet dogma that the ships follow?
Pretty much meaning that in the end there will be just generic ship piloting skills instead of anything race related.
Fake EDIT: Arbie had a missile point as well.
-
Why are the Amarrians using drones?
Or neuts. I mean, there's not even a t1 ship with a neut bonus prior to the dragoon. :roll:
-
Amarrians have, fluffwise and mechanically, been the second most prolific drone users for quite a while now (Arbitrator for example).
As for the rest. Yeeeaaaaaaah. Sloppy initial design starting to show through the cracks during this rennovation job - the fact they have to radically redesign to make tiericide work is showing the rather anemic decision making made all those years ago.
-
Amarr is an oddball when it comes to drones. They have the shittest drones of all, their dronebays come in 3rd place after Gallente and Minmatar, but they have a few dedicated droneboats like the arbitrator and a few T2 hulls.
-
Sloppy initial design starting to show through the cracks during this rennovation job - the fact they have to radically redesign to make tiericide work is showing the rather anemic decision making made all those years ago.
+9000
What CCP fozzie and CCP rise are doing is nothing short of a miracle.....and sometimes you need to compromise a bit.
However, i am scared to death about the new geddon, being on the receiving end of that monster while being a gallente pilot is gonna be hell.
-
The old designs worked with the old mechanics.
Since 2004 pretty much everything has changed mechanics wise.
With the old mechanics you could have a fleet dogma behind the design of the different factions and their ships.
You could also have counters within those fleet dogmas of the other factions with your own.
PIE was a shining example of overcoming and prospering in that situation.
It is just weird that the cross pollination and training that the capsuleers have culturally and ship wise is actually affecting the factions themselves.
Which is kind of a derail at this point... are the ship changes actually happening IC or are they completely OOC?
How about the game mechanic changes?
-
Ship changes have been presented IC.
For example, see the description of the Tormentor (http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=591); it was once a mining frigate, but it is now a gunship.
The other ship descriptions on that site are outdated (Inferno 1.1.5, we're on Retribution 1.1.something now), but the descriptions of ships ingame have been updated as ships have been tweaked with an IC tone.
-
However, i am scared to death about the new geddon, being on the receiving end of that monster while being a gallente pilot is gonna be hell.
It's not too late to train Amarrian. C'mon, Bruno! Life is fun on the Gallente-flying-a-geddon side of things! :D
-
So in the interest of going completely overboard if you spent lots of money, the Raven is now ridiculous.
(http://i.imgur.com/tmzgEiJ.jpg)
However, if you spend even more money it becomes downright scary.
(http://i.imgur.com/RweYdYx.jpg)
Whoo, Caldari! :yar:
-
Why not just get a couple HAM drakes for more tank and less cost, or a Maelstrom/Abaddon for more tank, more damage (by a good deal), cheaper fitting, and better damage projection (Scorch and Barrage, after all, can easily hit 40 km)? Oh, and those battleships don't pack a weapons system that only does 1/2 to 3/4 of its EFT stats. Remember, CCP has only stated that they want to improve cruise missiles, so far.
Sorry, there is no way to fit the Raven where another battleship will not outperform it...by miles. It's a worthless ship, and anyone who flies it in PvP will probably die horribly. It's not even a good PvE ship, comparatively.
-
Vik, even if it can be outperformed by any other, you now can ponder with mild reason the choice to bring a couple of ravens in close quarter combat and not suck.
To me thats enough to say it opens new tactics and strategies in pvp.
-
That is some serious bitter you have there Vikarion.
CCP have stated they will be looking at Torps as well as cruise missiles.
This new Raven will outperform the Tempest. It is as fast, deals more damage to BC/BS, has more ehp and is easier to fit.
The Raven is a great PvE ship and has been the staple Caldari mission boat for years because of it.
"Dying horribly" is one of the staples of PvP no matter what ship you fly.
A couple of Ham drakes will cost about the same.
Maelstrom/Abaddon I will accept, but they are also two of the slowest subcaps in the game.
Currently, torps will deal close to full damage to a double webbed mwd'ing BC. They will deal full damage to an mwd'ing BS. They will deal around 1/2 damage to mwd'ing, double webbed cruisers.
There are plenty of ways to fit Ravens that outperform other battleships, but as a torp/shield boat it is shoehorned into a 30km engagement range with particular tanking types. (By the way, torp range on a phoon is 18km.)
-
Agreed, Kala. I can imagine you'll see more tacklers fitting painters specifically to aid the Raven's ability to lay down the smack.
-
Agreed, Kala. I can imagine you'll see more tacklers fitting painters specifically to aid the Raven's ability to lay down the smack.
It just so happens that the bellicose is a pretty great heavy tackler, with a rather particular bonus ;)
-
That is some serious bitter you have there Vikarion.
I'm ::bittervet::, sure, but this isn't personal. I trained Gallente, Amarr, and Minmatar, and can fly them with pretty much all skills at V. I can also fly Caldari with nearly perfect SP, so whatever happens, I'm going to be fine.
CCP have stated they will be looking at Torps as well as cruise missiles.
Really? I missed that. Then again, CCP has a horrible record with missiles, so we're almost just as likely to see them declaring torps and cruise in need of a nerf as we are to have them buffed. As far as I can tell, no one in CCP even tries flying larger Caldari ships in PvP.
This new Raven will outperform the Tempest. It is as fast, deals more damage to BC/BS, has more ehp and is easier to fit.
It will outperform the tempest at...what? Close range DPS? Sure, fine, if you pack a bunch of target painters on it. In which case, the Tempest will have more tank, and more utility slots, and will probably kill your Raven easily. But the Tempest is an alpha damage boat anyway, and it does that job far better than the Raven.
So, perhaps I am wrong that every other battleship in the game performs better than the Raven at a particular role. It might be more accurate to put it this way: for any situation in which a Raven might be used, two or three other ships will be far superior at performing the same task.
The Raven is a great PvE ship and has been the staple Caldari mission boat for years because of it.
It's a horrible PvE ship. It has only a "meh" tank, and its mission DPS is outperformed by a well-fit Dominix, Maelstrom, Abaddon, Apocalypse, Tengu, or many others, most of whom have at least equivalent or much better tanks. Now, the CNR has a bit more of a claim to usefulness in the mission department, but in terms of the best mission ship, the Raven sits well below many other non-faction or tech 2 ships.
"Dying horribly" is one of the staples of PvP no matter what ship you fly.
Yeah, but most pilots try to minimize that part. The Raven isn't very good at minimizing that part.
A couple of Ham drakes will cost about the same.
And will have about double the EHP, and a good bit more DPS. Better yet, get a couple Talos's: not only will you do tons more damage per ship for only slightly less tank per ship, but you'll also be really, really fast, and cheaper to boot than a couple Ravens.
Maelstrom/Abaddon I will accept, but they are also two of the slowest subcaps in the game.
Why be fast when you can hit them from here?
Seriously, if you are soloing in a BS, you are usually...going to die horribly. We're talking small gang warfare. Maybe you have the idea that the Raven is going to kite, or something, or maybe you're thinking that the speed will allow it to get into range quickly, I'm not sure.
What I am sure of is that you won't be kiting Maelstroms - among others - in your Raven. They'll just sit there and shoot you, and they'll start shooting you before you even get into range, and they'll have a much better tank than you. And when they attack, they don't need speed, because they can hit from farther than the Raven can. Any situation where these longer ranged ships are outclassed is a situation in which the Raven is already completely irrelevant, because even at high speed you won't be able to close fast enough.
Currently, torps will deal close to full damage to a double webbed mwd'ing BC. They will deal full damage to an mwd'ing BS. They will deal around 1/2 damage to mwd'ing, double webbed cruisers.
Good luck getting a MWD'ing target double webbed without getting into range of blasters. If you do, why aren't you in a Megathron/Talos, which is miles better at melting targets? If you aren't in that ~10 km golden range, why aren't you in a autocannon-based or laser-based ship, which can start melting around 40km, and need not worry about webbing their targets nearly as much?
Trust me, I used to think torps were awesome too. Then I tried using them in PvP.
There are plenty of ways to fit Ravens that outperform other battleships, but as a torp/shield boat it is shoehorned into a 30km engagement range with particular tanking types. (By the way, torp range on a phoon is 18km.)
Raven also sucks as a sniping ship with cruise. And I didn't say that the Typhoon was awesome, either, but at least the Typhoon bonus is a nod to one of the big problems with torpedoes. Still, I'm not planning on flying a Typhoon, either. To be quite honest, after this patch, almost all of the battleships will be less useful than a battlecruiser.
Just as it is right now.
-
Than a battlecruiser navy issue maybe ?
-
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3043755#post3043755
Hi guys
We're making a couple small changes for the Tempest and the Typhoon, I'm telling you about them!
For the Tempest, when we said it was going to be Minmatar's second attack ship instead of combat, we moved the stats to somewhere inbetween for some reason. So now I'm going to finish the job.
Tempest:
127 Max velocity (+7)
.119 Agility (-.001)
6800 Shield hp (-200)
7000 Amor hp (-300)
This means the Tempest will still have more base hitpoints than it does currently on TQ, and it will also have slightly above average hp for an attack battleship, which we feel is warranted by being a little weaker in some other respects. In trade, it now goes much faster. With one nano and no implants or links, it goes 1251m/sec. It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes. I hope this direction is fun and rewarding and makes the ship stand out.
For the Typhoon, we are making smaller changes.
6 Turret slots (+1)
100600000 mass, (-3000000)
It didn't make a lot of sense to have 5 turrets and 6 launchers, especially when the Navy version is 6/6. The mass change is minor but it brings the mass a little closer to its attack BS bretheren.
Thanks for the feedback!
-
Hi guys
It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes.
I have always maintained that the Tempest is best Minmatar battlecruiser. Good to see CCP agrees. :D :cube:
-
Hi guys
It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes.
I have always maintained that the Tempest is best Minmatar battlecruiser. Good to see CCP agrees. :D :cube:
Unfortunately, it is still more massive than both the Apoc and the Raven. ._.
-
Hi guys
It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes.
I have always maintained that the Tempest is best Minmatar battlecruiser. Good to see CCP agrees. :D :cube:
Unfortunately, it is still more massive than both the Apoc and the Raven. ._.
And now they've sorted that (mostly).
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3072298#post3072298
Aww you guys spotted it so quick!
I kind of finalized it right before I left the office today so I figured I would post tomorrow =P But yes, as you can see in the OP we adjusted the mass of the Tempest down to 99500000 and the agility down to .116. This is actually a small change that resulted from a fairly detailed talk with Fozzie about the state of the Tempest heading for Odyssey. We both feel that this version looks solid for this release, and so there shouldn't be any more tweaks until after we've seen the aftermath of the entire battleship rebalance.
Thanks for the help, we'll talk again after release =)
To make that more obvious: Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 127(+7) / .116(-.004) / 99500000(-3800000) / 16.00s
-
I'm gonna stand by my prediction of -massive- cruise missile / torp buff, and Raven Spam the likes of which we haven't seen since Drake OP days.
Cruises and Torps have been shit for too long, with limited uses. We have an EVE pattern of whatever weapon system is at the bottom of the totem pole for a few years to get massive buff into overuse then nerfed back to normal.
Torps / Cruises are due for their time in the sun.
-
I'm gonna stand by my prediction of -massive- cruise missile / torp buff, and Raven Spam the likes of which we haven't seen since Drake OP days.
Cruises and Torps have been shit for too long, with limited uses. We have an EVE pattern of whatever weapon system is at the bottom of the totem pole for a few years to get massive buff into overuse then nerfed back to normal.
Torps / Cruises are due for their time in the sun.
So, lasors get rebuffed next again?
-
Of course. That's how it works with CCP, full gamedesign escalation. Making obsolete things no more obsolete, thus rendering the next close to obsolete thing completely obsolete. And then making that obsolete thing up to date, thus making something else obsolete.... :psyccp:
-
I have a couple of serious issues with the people CCP have put on this project. They seem to be able to understand criticism on a basic level but they don't really seem to grasp the reasons people are criticising them.
-
What are those reasons ?