Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Katrina Oniseki on 13 May 2013, 19:42
-
So, let's say our TonyG concerns are finally addressed.
Heth is eliminated, megacorporate control restored. Jamyl is exorcised, becomes a stable leader again. You know the drill. Whatever it is you'd like to see 'fixed' and such. Your chosen faction is returned to a status of credibility and capability. No more derp. No more herp.
What then? What, after all is said and done... would you like to see next? What can you reasonably expect after the removal of deus ex machina, jovian nanite superweapons, lesbian orgy posessed crazies and forklift drivers? What news events can you consider worthy of driving the EVE story forward?
For all our whining we do about TonyG, what else is there to push the story forward? This isn't a challenge to you, mind you. I dislike his lore as much as many of you... but I wonder what will come next? Would my faction be defined by boring stock reports and occasional product releases? What would be our big story hook?
-
Political tensions, conflicts, wars,... there are thousands of plotlines possible that don't need anything of the shit Tony G introduced. Hell, you could probably tell the full TEA without using almost any deus ex.
So, Houses fighting in the Empire, corporations spying and cutting eachother, sabik holding rituals, election frauds in the Federation, balkanization along tribe lines of the Republic... you name it! I'm in for it, as long as it remains logical, plausible and without all the shit the lore suddenly received.
-
Sleeper Mysteries, Arek'Jalaan things (yeah, I never took part in it while it happened, but I LOVED what it produced), Sansha continued, SoE vs SoCT (because this never gets old, and intrigue is awesome), some Angel/Serp/'Rista/Raider storylines.
Megacorp political machinations (NOH/Ishuk/Suvee vs the others?).
Tribal machinations (let's get a better picture of the Vherok/Krusual politicitians, and see what the Starkies/integrated Thukkers bring to the mix).
AMMATAR/Khanid/Empire intrigues (seriously, intrigues are awesome, and we need moar Ammatar shit).
Gallente intrigues! Moar Intaki vs Fed intrigues, flesh out the Jin-Mei/Mannar/etc.
Inter-faction intrigues — money issues are always boss, and if the Fed and Republic part ways, will the RSS team up with the Cartel and Serps to spy on the Fed?(spoiler:they probably already do!)
All the Games of Thrones+SpaiMovieTitleHere shit that actually happens IRL without asspulls and space soap opera dramatic twists and mystical terran artifacts.
Seriously, I want more hilarious Quafe+ sidestories, more ohshit, the Rista's kidnapped another Ambassador and are holding him/her for ransom, more Angels+Thukker Outriders Vs Thukker Chiefs+Republic Fleet(going after Martokar Alash and Krullefor for starters), more creepy sentience from the Rogue Drones(please to hotdrop Capsuleers with DroneDreads+DroneBS/BC Support Fleets! It will be hilarious), more Sleepers appearing in KSpace.
We have an absolute wealth of available potential-for-exciting-shit just sitting around. There are unused staging areas in Nullsec which are staffed by the Empires but aren't used even for missions (as far as I know). There are all kinds of hints and tidbits in region descriptions about cool stories we don't know anything about, but could be awesome. And if you're really struggling for some kind of Intrigues and Mystery: Intaki Syndicate.
-
My 'empire of choice' is the Kingdoms, so a bit more visibility would be nice.
I'd like a bunch of nice reasons for members of all factions to hate, like, or tolerate each of the other factions. The current antagonism between the Republic and the Federation is a nice start. A bit of bridge building between the Empire and Federation would be good.
Intra-factional rivalries would be nice. Sebbie vs Brutor. Sarum vs Tash-Murkon. Isukone vs Suuv.
-
Disbanding the alliances between nations and introduce a sort of 'stable' cold-war again. Render FW into 4 separate wars as all the empires seek to clean up their internal BS (and all the drama and politicking this leads to) while dealing with foreign issues that has plagued them for a long time. The militias as a result splits and the 4 separate wars are Empire vs Blooders, Fed vs Serpentis etc. with the occasional war-period between enemies as different sides take turns trying to exploit chances offered by different enemies when they present themselves, for instance the Angel vs Republic fighting might lead the Empire to try a major raid of a constellation for slaves etc. forcing the Empire FW players to invade to try for the objective (lured by dangling booty if successful) and their opponents to defend. If the Empire manage this the Rep wants pay-back and counter attacks an Imperial constellation for instance, leading to dynamic results of these 'events' (more like campaigns tbh.)
Pirate militias meanwhile has set goals and different exploitable events of their own that crop up from time to time. May even tie this into a bit of a null-trip by having pirates that don't like each other hit each other's back-yards possibly. (would likely need some serious work and organization due to null-bear infestations etc.)
In short, disband the alliances and introduce a believable new twist to FW that leads to more space being fought over and more players involved. STOP the distinction of FW as a 'stepping stone to null' and integrate it into an equal part of the low-sec/null balance. Many FW alliances are superior to many of their null-counterparts anyway. Who knows, something like this might sprite up both low-sec, FW and null-space all in one go.
-
If we could get the faction wars to grind to a halt, then I can bet that there'll be a lot more internecine struggle internal to factions.
Right now there are probably a lot of Sebiestor who are thinking Shakor is being a dick, and the Brutor need to be taken down a level, but that's not like to happen while they're all still worried about the Amarr.
Likewise the corporate struggles in the state (although they seem less constrained by the fact that they're also in a shooting war with the Fed)
The Federation have their own arguments to resolve (Hello Mr Blaque) although I'm not sure that they'll rise to the level of internal shooting, they could.
As for the Amarr, I think that there is lots of room for power struggles between the various factions, although I'm not sure if they will suppress them as long as the Empress seems to have her act together.
That's what I'd like to see, but honestly, I'm not sure how much fun it would be from a game perspective. Halt FW, and a lot of players are going to be upset for losing their gravy train, and their frequent PvP. I'm not sure what CCP could replace it with that would keep those players interested. OTOH, a war that stretches off interminably, and which appears to have no particular victory possibility for any of the sides, seems to burn out pilots fairly frequently so at might even be better for the game. Who knows.
-
That's assuming that FW has to be halted. FW is a mechanism to avoid 'real' war between the factions, and if they look at it, and see that's working as intended, we might see them start up with more rivalry close to home.
On the Empire specifically, I think even with Jamyl having her act together, there is potential for conflict. She is the Empress, her word is law, etc. At the same time, she might not come down on conflicts between houses as long as they are conducted properly - not making the Empire look weak, etc - and with an eye toward keeping the major factions focused on each-other so that she doesn't need to worry about one of them pulling a Khanid, or trying to undermine her.
-
Our alliance does FW because it is, for the most part, a stable source of targets that generate enough iskies to pay for the cost of the ships we use to hunt them.
All you need to do is find new ways to bring in lots of frigates/destroyers/cruisers into the same place so that they can be duelled/prosecuted/ganked whilst, at the same time, provide enough revenue to match the losses. That's what makes FW popular and successful.
Can it REALLY be hard to do that?
-
Grinding FW to a halt would be bad, IMO.
Escalating it would be fine, tweaking it regarding things like alliances also fine. But the war has no reason to end on the Matari/Amarr side at least.
-
Well, let's put it simple.
If everything "TonyG-ish" is removed and EVE is returned to pre-TonyG status quo, then... then we all die out of boredom and CCP can put big red cross on the whole project.
Any changes, be them bad or good, mean development and growing of projects. If they are pulled back, especially after quite long time, this means nothing good for the project. As for "After TonyG", I would prefer to see further advance, whatever it will be, whatever it will bring, good or bad, will players like it or not.
Any advance will be just better than to stop here and enjoy what we have now or than returning to "past".
Be it another big war, new alliances between empires, new enemies from dunnowhere, incursion of empires into nullsecs, new leaders, new politics, new Jamyls and Heiderans, revolutions, titans, new empires (like... gurista sovereignty?) , epic battles, lost planets, catastrophic events, new heroes and new traitors...
goddam CCP, if you can do SOMETHING,
JUST BRING IT!
-
I'd like to see a press release after a nice long story arc that looks something like this...
BLAQUE ARRESTED, PROSECUTION INVESTIGATION UNDERWAY IN FOILED ANTI-REFUGEE SCHEME
Caille - 30 May, YC 116 - Mentas Blaque, former Commanding Officer of the Black Eagles, has been confirmed by the AP as formally charged with conspiracy and treason after an accounting leak by an unknown individual came to light mid-May YC 115, implicating him and others under his command in an anti-refugee scheme. Blaque is currently under house arrest while his implicated subordinates undergo interrogation by a joint team of Federation Navy and CONCORD investigators.
The accounting leak had originally been leaked within the GalNet by an untraceable source last May, sparking wild debate for the seven minutes that the document was available before SDII Data Manipulation Services removed it from the net and distributed C&D Notices. One month later, the document reappeared on the GalNet, as well as the personal digital and physical inbox of multiple Scope reporters in a tiny seed storage device. No one has stepped forward to claim responsibility for the leak and distribution as of yet.
The accounting logs confirm an attempt to hide fund transfers from the FIO to a third-party banking service. Upon further investigation, said banking services only existed on paper and lacked a physical or GalNet office. However, pre-programmed nodes containing distribution algorithms were discovered hidden throughout areas of the net known for financial information flow. The nodes were small and broadly distributed enough to remain hidden as they transmitted funds to organizations tasked with inciting anti-Minmatar refugee sentiment across the Federation, with each group acting as seemingly independent organizations with no ties to each other save for the anti-refugee actions they took. AP sources are working to confirm that these groups consisted partially of SDII operatives.
Further research from the Prosecution confirms that encrypted message caches contain detailed instructions from individuals on plans and security schedules around the city of Caille to allow the aforementioned groups to act. This data was provided by falsified individuals through data manipulation directly by Blaque. While no formal statement has been made, it appears that Blaque attempted to spur the Minmatar refugees to start a war of defense against ethnic Gallente in hopes of sparking a civil war to justify refugee removal with the assistance of a yet to be identified partner organization or government.
The distribution of this information one year ago preceded multiple acts of non-violent domestic terrorism including a forced change of all terminal backgrounds in an FIO office in Dodixie to a cartoon like black eagle, shaped vaguely like the Federal Eagle, seemingly rubbing its wings together while cackling. This logo continued to be the calling card of the unknown hacker responsible for the leak as it appeared on the side of an FIO building at night, where the building light system was hacked to form an outline of the same cartoon eagle.
The Scope will keep you updated via the Live Feed as information is obtained.
-
Why ya'll brothers always gotta be hatin' on the Blaque-man?
-
Why ya'll brothers always gotta be hatin' on the Blaque-man?
Because he sucks.
-
Pick up a few back issues of the New York Times over the last two decades. Read the International section. Consider how thematic elements could crop up in New Eden. According to Wikipedia, there are ten "major" wars or war-like conflicts ongoing on earth at this very moment (defined as 1000+ deaths per year). There are a couple dozen minor ones.
There's plenty we can do without reaching for Tony G melodrama. Here's one off the top of my head:
With the Empire on its heels in the Emyprean War, traditionalist Matari militants fearing Federal influence in their lives begin to attack Gallentean aid workers in poor areas of the Republic or even launch terrorist strikes in the Federation itself. Naturally, the Federation is outraged, both officially and publicly, and demands that the Republic either take action against the militants or stand aside and let the Federation military handle them.
Several factors prevent such an easy approach, however. Firstly, the Republic government has been building these people up as heroes to the public for, literally, decades as a means of producing a weapon against the Amarr. Many have deep political connections, and their resources are extensive. What's more, their elevated status makes them powerful-- they hold positions of moral authority in Matari society and tend to be listened to. Not all Matari agree that violent measures against the Gallente are appropriate, but only a minority feels that long-term Federal involvement in the Republic is sustainable or desirable. Public consensus favors increasing isolationism, and an overt move against the militants could potentially result in civil war.
The Republic government hems and haws and eventually lets the Federation in to "deal with" the militants and launches some half-hearted raids of its own while continuing to provide financial aid and intelligence to the Matari militants through its own intelligence services. Meanwhile, Federal efforts to uproot the militants are hampered by sometimes contradictory intel, an increasingly hostile local population, imperfect understanding of tribal culture, and a new and maddening discovery that the Matari militants are receiving further funding and support from intelligence services based in the Caldari State.
The frustrating quagmire and a sense of profound betrayal leads to a hardening of nationalist sentiment in the Federation that is reflected in its leadership, with increasingly hard-line diplomacy and tactics adding to the already combustible situation. Meanwhile, the Empire's discovery (from intel provided by the Federation) that Caldari elements have been funding Matari "freedom fighters" results in yet another zone of escalating diplomatic tensions.
With positions hardening on all sides and diplomacy disintegrating into grandstanding and sloganeering, the voices crying out for patience and compromise are all but drowned out. Battle lines are drawn, fleets are mobilizing, and although 11th-hour diplomatic efforts continue the only question seems to be who is going to fire the first shot.
Muck Raker publishes a statement of general approval from The Equilibrium of Mankind.
Essence of today's headlines, sprinkled with vinegar.
-
Why ya'll brothers always gotta be hatin' on the Blaque-man?
Because he sucks.
Anslo, puns are lost on thee.
-
* More fracturing within the Federation along racial lines.
Not just Gallente vs. Matari or Gallente vs. Intaki (though I would love to see a ruling against the practice of the Reborn process within Federation space and the fallout from same), but Jin-Mei vs. everybody, including themselves.
And what grounds would the Jin-Mei have to get up in arms? Why, their precious caste system. Has it grown stronger over the years, or has it broken down/begun to break down outside of Lirsautton? Are there those who believe it can now be abolished entirely?
* More fracturing within the Republic along tribal/clan lines.
If the Sebbies and the Brutors go after one another, time might be ripe for a Krusual/Vherkie coalition to take the Republic's lunch money.
* Ardi Freaking Shapur and the Kingdom of "We're More Holy Than Thou" Ammatar.
-
I can't really see something like your ruling against the practice of the Reborn, considering how integrated Intaki are within the Federation. There are simply too many high ranking Intaki in the Federation government to see something like that happen.
What I can imagine (and would love to see) would be something more of a "World's Rights" movement. The Federation isn't the most "federal" of republics, and individual planets have far more relative power than modern U.S. states do, for instance. You saw (bizarrely amplified) versions of this in the Intaki development auctions. It would be interesting to see more of this. It could lead to some pretty grimdark in-game effects, as well: Mission runners for Creodron might be given missions to disrupt industrial operations of Roden in Placid, for instance.
-
I can't really see something like your ruling against the practice of the Reborn, considering how integrated Intaki are within the Federation. There are simply too many high ranking Intaki in the Federation government to see something like that happen.
What I can imagine (and would love to see) would be something more of a "World's Rights" movement. The Federation isn't the most "federal" of republics, and individual planets have far more relative power than modern U.S. states do, for instance. You saw (bizarrely amplified) versions of this in the Intaki development auctions. It would be interesting to see more of this. It could lead to some pretty grimdark in-game effects, as well: Mission runners for Creodron might be given missions to disrupt industrial operations of Roden in Placid, for instance.
YES. This is exactly what I'd want to see. Less racial stuff which plays to stereotypes (and which we already have in great abundance), more ideology and philosophy of power!
-
I'm throwing my weight behind the "FW needs to be ended/significantly altered" argument as well. The de-TonyGification of the political scene would either leave the Big 4 having accomplished their primary goals or be entirely unable to do so:
- The Amarr cannot exactly strike at the Elder Fleet or any of the various freedom figher groups outside of the warzone without a full-on invasion of the Republic. Conversely, the Minmatar are probably not freeing many slaves as the warzone is almost certainly scorched to a wasteland by now; the largest slave populations also lay far beyond the militia's reach.
- The Gallente will have actually achieved one of their major goals - the removal of Heth - and unless something major shifts will probably still be solidly in control of their border as well. The Caldari, in contrast, will likely have realized by then that the Federation really isn't that interested in trying another bloody invasion of Caldari Prime, leaving them solidly in control of their primary goal while the continuing border war proves both unsuccessful and unprofitable.
- I do not favor turning FW into a full-on war due to the same difficulties that were faced by Incursions and the current incarnation of FW: If it gets implemented, we can expect to see an utterly unchanging and boring mechanic for the next several years, with some minor tweaks but ultimately no significant shifts - because lets face it, CCP can't radically redesign a mechanic that large, that quickly.
So, what DO I want?
- Relations between the Big 4 turn to a shaky, cold peace as all four acknowledge that the border conflicts have essentially netted them nothing and cost an uncountable volume of lives. As the years go on, we could see articles about the restoration of trade, diplomatic cross-contact efforts, etc.
- The Empire turns inward, leading an internal reclaiming aimed at purging infestations of Blood Raider and Nation sympathetics. This soon expands to those who dealt with the Cartel, Serpentis, and other smaller pirate operations as the true extent of the corruption the extended war had fostered becomes clear. This leads to some conflict between the houses that feel they are "purer" and those they feel are "more contaminated". At the same time, the bulk of the Empire's forces are redeployed to handle engagements against the Raiders or Nation to the far edge of the Empire.
- The State is still handling the turmoil from Heth's departure, but things seem shaky as old debts between megacorps and rising postwar unemployment shake at the foundations of the megacorps' power. Looking for both a solution to the legions of unemployed workers and the raids by Guristas seeking to take advantage of the chaos, the State declares a no-tolerance policy and makes its first objective halting the attacks by its most annoying foe - all the while hoping the policy holds them over long enough to flatten out the debts.
- The Federation finds itself in a militarily strong position, but continues to be shaken by tensions between ethic groups - not just Matari-Gallente, but also by Jin-Mei and some Intaki groups, who view the recent anti-immigrant upswing with deep concern. Along with the continued political ramifications of the Black Eagles' actions, Roden desperately searches for a uniting force to paper over the differences - and finds it in the Serpentis, who he can blame for the wartime PR catastrophe of drugged-up Federation soldiers murdering innocents. A "policing task force" is quickly destroyed by Serpentis and Guardian Angel assets, leaving Roden forced to send a full force to avoid appearing weak to "mere pirates".
- The Republic finds itself embroiled in tribal tensions as well, but even these cannot hold back a tidal wave of previously-repressed Matar rage when the Cartel attempts a second annexation of a Republic border world. Facing the first open attack on a protected Republic system in years, the tribes turn their full might against the Cartel - perhaps to the concern of the Thukkers, who still have some contacts there.
Your guys' thoughts?
-
'Boy Anslo your press release sure was good, you're such a great writer!'
Oh thanks! Eeeh I'm not so good, just practiced. Ho ho ho~
...ho.
-
Ardishapur grip on the Mandate shattering to cinders, and the Mandate becoming for the first time of its existence something else than the cluster apathetic laughing stock. Or anything else that fixes that, but always "Ardishapur this Ardishapur that" in lieu of Mandate news is hardly the way to make the Mandate interesting at all, quite the contrary actually.
-
Yeah, so done with the economic powerhouse of New Eden being economically incompetent, thanks. If the State has problems, let them be internal and political.
-
I'm throwing my weight behind the "FW needs to be ended/significantly altered" argument as well. The de-TonyGification of the political scene would either leave the Big 4 having accomplished their primary goals or be entirely unable to do so:
- The Amarr cannot exactly strike at the Elder Fleet or any of the various freedom figher groups outside of the warzone without a full-on invasion of the Republic. Conversely, the Minmatar are probably not freeing many slaves as the warzone is almost certainly scorched to a wasteland by now; the largest slave populations also lay far beyond the militia's reach.
- The Gallente will have actually achieved one of their major goals - the removal of Heth - and unless something major shifts will probably still be solidly in control of their border as well. The Caldari, in contrast, will likely have realized by then that the Federation really isn't that interested in trying another bloody invasion of Caldari Prime, leaving them solidly in control of their primary goal while the continuing border war proves both unsuccessful and unprofitable.
- I do not favor turning FW into a full-on war due to the same difficulties that were faced by Incursions and the current incarnation of FW: If it gets implemented, we can expect to see an utterly unchanging and boring mechanic for the next several years, with some minor tweaks but ultimately no significant shifts - because lets face it, CCP can't radically redesign a mechanic that large, that quickly.
So, what DO I want?
- Relations between the Big 4 turn to a shaky, cold peace as all four acknowledge that the border conflicts have essentially netted them nothing and cost an uncountable volume of lives. As the years go on, we could see articles about the restoration of trade, diplomatic cross-contact efforts, etc.
- The Empire turns inward, leading an internal reclaiming aimed at purging infestations of Blood Raider and Nation sympathetics. This soon expands to those who dealt with the Cartel, Serpentis, and other smaller pirate operations as the true extent of the corruption the extended war had fostered becomes clear. This leads to some conflict between the houses that feel they are "purer" and those they feel are "more contaminated". At the same time, the bulk of the Empire's forces are redeployed to handle engagements against the Raiders or Nation to the far edge of the Empire.
- The State is still handling the turmoil from Heth's departure, but things seem shaky as old debts between megacorps and rising postwar unemployment shake at the foundations of the megacorps' power. Looking for both a solution to the legions of unemployed workers and the raids by Guristas seeking to take advantage of the chaos, the State declares a no-tolerance policy and makes its first objective halting the attacks by its most annoying foe - all the while hoping the policy holds them over long enough to flatten out the debts.
- The Federation finds itself in a militarily strong position, but continues to be shaken by tensions between ethic groups - not just Matari-Gallente, but also by Jin-Mei and some Intaki groups, who view the recent anti-immigrant upswing with deep concern. Along with the continued political ramifications of the Black Eagles' actions, Roden desperately searches for a uniting force to paper over the differences - and finds it in the Serpentis, who he can blame for the wartime PR catastrophe of drugged-up Federation soldiers murdering innocents. A "policing task force" is quickly destroyed by Serpentis and Guardian Angel assets, leaving Roden forced to send a full force to avoid appearing weak to "mere pirates".
- The Republic finds itself embroiled in tribal tensions as well, but even these cannot hold back a tidal wave of previously-repressed Matar rage when the Cartel attempts a second annexation of a Republic border world. Facing the first open attack on a protected Republic system in years, the tribes turn their full might against the Cartel - perhaps to the concern of the Thukkers, who still have some contacts there.
Your guys' thoughts?
I...actually fucking love this. Pirate Militia opportunities, PLUS giving the FacWar groups a new outlet, PLUS a smoothly transitioning storyline.
You wouldn't even have to deal with NPC Null becoming NPC Low (or vice versa), either, because you're not suggesting an Empire-led invasion of Nullspace. (Also, Deployable/Destroyable Sentry Guns are a terrible idea for both NPC Null and Lowsec).
You COULD make Syndicate a battle-ground (Gallente recolonization/Long Arm of the Law), but I suspect that the Cat's current inhabitants may not appreciate a sudden influx of the MilitiaBlob. What WOULD be cool would be set a battleground in Outer Ring, since it's currently pretty damn useless. Those interested in reclaiming ORE from Serpentis (and harvesting whatever new goodies would be planted there), versus those who are interested in Serpentis' money faucet padding their wallets. That would give the Nullsec-Interested FacWar groups an outlet, while maintaining the original Lowsec dynamic for the most part.
-
I like the idea of developing the npc null regions, but maybe something a bit more gradual? Perhaps constellations of lowsec within the regions. These could potentially be hubs for both industry and big 4 vs pirate "faction war." You could even make it more interesting by having those pockets be several jumps through npc-controlled null.
This would shakeup the endless back and forth between the current factions and fit with CCP's plan to keep nudging people in the direction of nullsec.
-
I'm throwing my weight behind the "FW needs to be ended/significantly altered" argument as well. The de-TonyGification of the political scene would either leave the Big 4 having accomplished their primary goals or be entirely unable to do so:
- The Amarr cannot exactly strike at the Elder Fleet or any of the various freedom figher groups outside of the warzone without a full-on invasion of the Republic. Conversely, the Minmatar are probably not freeing many slaves as the warzone is almost certainly scorched to a wasteland by now; the largest slave populations also lay far beyond the militia's reach.
- The Gallente will have actually achieved one of their major goals - the removal of Heth - and unless something major shifts will probably still be solidly in control of their border as well. The Caldari, in contrast, will likely have realized by then that the Federation really isn't that interested in trying another bloody invasion of Caldari Prime, leaving them solidly in control of their primary goal while the continuing border war proves both unsuccessful and unprofitable.
- I do not favor turning FW into a full-on war due to the same difficulties that were faced by Incursions and the current incarnation of FW: If it gets implemented, we can expect to see an utterly unchanging and boring mechanic for the next several years, with some minor tweaks but ultimately no significant shifts - because lets face it, CCP can't radically redesign a mechanic that large, that quickly.
So, what DO I want?
- Relations between the Big 4 turn to a shaky, cold peace as all four acknowledge that the border conflicts have essentially netted them nothing and cost an uncountable volume of lives. As the years go on, we could see articles about the restoration of trade, diplomatic cross-contact efforts, etc.
- The Empire turns inward, leading an internal reclaiming aimed at purging infestations of Blood Raider and Nation sympathetics. This soon expands to those who dealt with the Cartel, Serpentis, and other smaller pirate operations as the true extent of the corruption the extended war had fostered becomes clear. This leads to some conflict between the houses that feel they are "purer" and those they feel are "more contaminated". At the same time, the bulk of the Empire's forces are redeployed to handle engagements against the Raiders or Nation to the far edge of the Empire.
- The State is still handling the turmoil from Heth's departure, but things seem shaky as old debts between megacorps and rising postwar unemployment shake at the foundations of the megacorps' power. Looking for both a solution to the legions of unemployed workers and the raids by Guristas seeking to take advantage of the chaos, the State declares a no-tolerance policy and makes its first objective halting the attacks by its most annoying foe - all the while hoping the policy holds them over long enough to flatten out the debts.
- The Federation finds itself in a militarily strong position, but continues to be shaken by tensions between ethic groups - not just Matari-Gallente, but also by Jin-Mei and some Intaki groups, who view the recent anti-immigrant upswing with deep concern. Along with the continued political ramifications of the Black Eagles' actions, Roden desperately searches for a uniting force to paper over the differences - and finds it in the Serpentis, who he can blame for the wartime PR catastrophe of drugged-up Federation soldiers murdering innocents. A "policing task force" is quickly destroyed by Serpentis and Guardian Angel assets, leaving Roden forced to send a full force to avoid appearing weak to "mere pirates".
- The Republic finds itself embroiled in tribal tensions as well, but even these cannot hold back a tidal wave of previously-repressed Matar rage when the Cartel attempts a second annexation of a Republic border world. Facing the first open attack on a protected Republic system in years, the tribes turn their full might against the Cartel - perhaps to the concern of the Thukkers, who still have some contacts there.
Your guys' thoughts?
I...actually fucking love this. Pirate Militia opportunities, PLUS giving the FacWar groups a new outlet, PLUS a smoothly transitioning storyline.
THIS, DAMN IT. It's pretty much what I want too. :cube:
-
Suggestion: Amarr Matari war continues. Caldari and Gallente pair off with pirates.
I can see arguments for the Caldari-Gallente war dying down. I cannot see arguments for the Amarr-Matari one dying down short of an actual victory.
-
There would have to be a threat grave enough to force the Minmatar and Amarr to band together. I don't know what that threat might be. I mean, we've already got the Nation popping into random systems and snatching planetary populations wholesale...
-
The concept of pirate militia gameplay scares the shit out of me in general, but alas.
I'm hoping they'll cold war the galaxy again so internal faction conflict can happen more openly. Covert tensions aren't necessarily making for an interesting story.
-
I don't think it necessarily demands them "banding together". As I said, I'm looking for a shaky, cold peace and not the Amarr and Minmatar suddenly going out for drinks and patting each others' backs.
As for a reason - well, let's face it: What has the war accomplished? In the past few years, what significant, national gains have the Matari or Amarrians made toward their greater goals? What is the point of continuing, even?
-
The concept of pirate militia gameplay scares the shit out of me in general, but alas.
I'm hoping they'll cold war the galaxy again so internal faction conflict can happen more openly. Covert tensions aren't necessarily making for an interesting story.
Not up the challenge, eh? :yar:
No, I get you. I remember hearing rumours during Fanfest that CCP was going to open ALL of Lowsec to FacWar, and thinking "well, shit, that's the end of all the small Pirate corps, and time for me to go live in GW". The blob is just so fucking big.
-
The concept of pirate militia gameplay scares the shit out of me in general, but alas.
I'm hoping they'll cold war the galaxy again so internal faction conflict can happen more openly. Covert tensions aren't necessarily making for an interesting story.
Not up the challenge, eh? :yar:
No, I get you. I remember hearing rumours during Fanfest that CCP was going to open ALL of Lowsec to FacWar, and thinking "well, shit, that's the end of all the small Pirate corps, and time for me to go live in GW". The blob is just so fucking big.
I'm fairly certain we have a topic somewhere on pirate militia that we can necro ... I don't recall if I was in favor for it at the time or not, but I am certainly against it now.
-
A slow plodding story, where the empires and CONCORD are slow in their ability to act.
Demonstrate the decline of the empires by changing what low-sec and factional warfare mean. The reason for the lines shift is not because the opposing empires (who share low-sec borders) are necessarily at war, but because they hand over operation, policing, etc of low-sec to their infomorphs.
So, instead of being a war between the core empires, it is a war between their proxies over resources.
-
TBH, I want to see a storyline where, at the end of a long and arduous plot arc which has left the zealous exhausted and the loyal slain, out of the smoke and carnage emerges the well-dressed and unscathed silhouette of Caldari powerbroker Istvaan Shogaatsu, calmly and carefully stepping over the bodies of the dead, at which point he reveals that all of it has happened in a convoluted scheme to get him a date with the Empress(+Other), and that we can all go home now.
Is that really so much to ask? He's had years.
-
Does that count as a threesome?
-
Does that count as a threesome?
No but it does include a voyeur with front-row seats on the action.
Guess some people will approve of that idea.
-
I'm getting a feeling of all is not lost then from this. That things will recover once all the TonyG stuff is done.
-
Does that count as a threesome?
No but it does include a voyeur with front-row seats on the action.
Guess some people will approve of that idea.
It's a step up from Royal Lesbian Space Orgies.
-
Pirate Factions in open assault of Empires.
Yes please. Nao.
Turn all lowsec into festering pirate faction battlegrounds. Let us declare loyalty and cause destruction.
Your loyalist tears will taste of sweet honey... your lamentations a soothing music to our ears as we paint the stars with the blood of your weak and innocent.
We're in ur lowsex, ruinin' ur empirez.
-
Pirate Factions in open assault of Empires.
Yes please. Nao.
Turn all lowsec into festering pirate faction battlegrounds. Let us declare loyalty and cause destruction.
Your loyalist tears will taste of sweet honey... your lamentations a soothing music to our ears as we paint the stars with the blood of your weak and innocent.
We're in ur lowsex, ruinin' ur empirez.
Looking forward to the utter annihilation of any will to fight or RP in general from pirate factions. Share the joy, eh?
-
Pirate Factions in open assault of Empires.
Yes please. Nao.
Turn all lowsec into festering pirate faction battlegrounds. Let us declare loyalty and cause destruction.
Your loyalist tears will taste of sweet honey... your lamentations a soothing music to our ears as we paint the stars with the blood of your weak and innocent.
We're in ur lowsex, ruinin' ur empirez.
Looking forward to the utter annihilation of any will to fight or RP in general from pirate factions. Share the joy, eh?
Eh? Run that by me again?
-
Pirate Factions in open assault of Empires.
Yes please. Nao.
Turn all lowsec into festering pirate faction battlegrounds. Let us declare loyalty and cause destruction.
Your loyalist tears will taste of sweet honey... your lamentations a soothing music to our ears as we paint the stars with the blood of your weak and innocent.
We're in ur lowsex, ruinin' ur empirez.
Looking forward to the utter annihilation of any will to fight or RP in general from pirate factions. Share the joy, eh?
Eh? Run that by me again?
If the system stays the same. I think having to run around buttans will sap the intrest to pirate loyalty soon enough. Aside from iskies, but ofcourse!
More farmland, with near zero impact. Aside from the fact that the Highsec factions will be just one more step to useless and worthless IC.
-
There has been a proposal for a long time for security status to 'degrade'. Highsec systems near lowsec systems with large amounts of pirate activity, ship/pod kills, or in an FW case, lots of plexes run, should slowly become lower security status. I imagine tying this to a pirate FW would not be overly difficult, as long as there was a counter balance. Maybe lowsec systems with very little activity should slowly raise in sec status?
-
I really like the idea of dynamic security, and having to 'work' at it to have an area reflect the gameplay you desire.
Gives anti-pirates a reason to work, gives pirates a reason to work.
How awesome would some of the loyalist groups feel if they could move into an area, secure the borders, and watch as the sec status rises? With higher sec comes perhaps more damage for sentry guns, police assistance, etc.
With more pirating comes better bonuses for low sec people (reduces sentry damage, etc)
-
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3033259&#post3033259
go forth!
-
Pirate Factions in open assault of Empires.
Yes please. Nao.
Turn all lowsec into festering pirate faction battlegrounds. Let us declare loyalty and cause destruction.
Your loyalist tears will taste of sweet honey... your lamentations a soothing music to our ears as we paint the stars with the blood of your weak and innocent.
We're in ur lowsex, ruinin' ur empirez.
Except, as both Ghost Hunter and Chell point out, this will devolve from our treasured Yarring into button-orbiting, and the Militia Blobs that we know and despise (and thus stay the hell away from). The only reason I've ever gone into a FW plex is to feast upon the plexers within (or those seeking to gank the cloaky plexers, as the case may be).
Besides which, the established empire Militias would probably stay primarily the same as they are now, with all their organization and decent/poor strategy, while those who do switch sides and those who come from Hisec to join the pirates would just bring a new influx of terribad blobbers intent on inexpertly camping gates, docking up the moment a decent yarring gang showed up, and waiting for overwhelming numbers while spewing awful smack in local.
This is not the way to fun RP combat.
-
Remove ship size restrictions from plexes, or remove plexes and change the capture system entirely.
Porting over the existing FW mechanics would be horribad IMO. There should be a range of activity. Perhaps keep the existing system for the Empires' proxy war, and make it scary and terrible for the pirate invasion border conflicts.
I'd prefer it if any new pirate FW system maintained the current lowsec ship types (generally BCs and up), instead of downgrading.
-
Why not all of them ?
-
Remove ship size restrictions from plexes, or remove plexes and change the capture system entirely...
...I'd prefer it if any new pirate FW system maintained the current lowsec ship types (generally BCs and up), instead of downgrading.
Translation - you want to keep your cozy well-tanked BC pirate gangs with low-chance of ship losses instead of risking your necks in something smaller and more squishy, and removing any use for anything smaller for anyone else. Who needs cruisers or frigates for the smaller plexes/whatever when all you need is a huge fleet of battlecruisers?
No thanks. The size-limits on plexes was one of the major bonuses of FW when I played it. T3 cruiser in local, with known booster? He's not getting into your cruiser or below plex in that thing, don't worry. He has to engage you on more equal terms than bringing the biggest and baddest.
-
If people would want to avoid "mandatory" limited complex running, then you could always make them optional for system status, instead tying captures to affect the system in other ways, like giving bonuses or penalties. This would allow to keep (and possibly even expand) the "terrain in space" function the complexes have.
-
Remove ship size restrictions from plexes, or remove plexes and change the capture system entirely...
...I'd prefer it if any new pirate FW system maintained the current lowsec ship types (generally BCs and up), instead of downgrading.
Translation - you want to keep your cozy well-tanked BC pirate gangs with low-chance of ship losses instead of risking your necks in something smaller and more squishy, and removing any use for anything smaller for anyone else. Who needs cruisers or frigates for the smaller plexes/whatever when all you need is a huge fleet of battlecruisers?
No thanks. The size-limits on plexes was one of the major bonuses of FW when I played it. T3 cruiser in local, with known booster? He's not getting into your cruiser or below plex in that thing, don't worry. He has to engage you on more equal terms than bringing the biggest and baddest.
This, basically, is the point of Faction Warfare. Removing it would basically be making low-sec indistinguishable from null and wormhole space. If you want to play 'the price is right' then there are LOTS of available venues.
-
I believe the intent of FW was to provide a nice place for new pilots to try PvP.
I don't know if they succeeded but I still think that's good thing. Allowing larger ships would certainly not align with that goal.
-
Remove ship size restrictions from plexes, or remove plexes and change the capture system entirely.
Porting over the existing FW mechanics would be horribad IMO. There should be a range of activity. Perhaps keep the existing system for the Empires' proxy war, and make it scary and terrible for the pirate invasion border conflicts.
I'd prefer it if any new pirate FW system maintained the current lowsec ship types (generally BCs and up), instead of downgrading.
I want to see your lossboard if you think opening up plexes to larger boats with Snuff/SC/et all around will bring gudfites. Hotdrop the ALL the buttans!
-
The current FW areas provide gameplay to satisfy pvp within certain restricted shiptypes and allows for capturing mechanics and bonuses for the victors.
Null sec provides gameplay with unrestricted ship types and allows for capturing mechanics and bonuses for the victors.
All other lowsec does neither of these things. My proposal is that this should be filled with a middle ground version of Fac Warfare which basically restricts some capital warfare.
My proposal does not suggest changing the current FW systems or gameplay. I think there should be, and should continue to be, small-ship specific pvp locations. The current FW systems provide this and aside from capture mechanics, etc it's great that this is a thing. More of that.
My proposal was for NEW FW locations to have different gameplay.
Bloodbird you have some nerve. You are bitter and aggressive, kindly chill out. You know exactly squat about my gameplay, who I'm shooting at, who is shooting at me, and the gameplay that goes on in my area. I put more ISK and assets at risk nearly every time I PVP than most people on this board do in a six months ship losses. There's nothing cozy about it, so you can shut right up with your judgments.
Unlike plenty of people in these parts, I try not to knock people for their chosen gameplay. If you like pvping in frigates, that's super. If you like shooting people in Titans, also super.
-
Right. I see I misunderstood you. Sorry for that. I'd like them to add stuff to normal low-sec as well.
-
Its fine, I just think we should be adding more types of gameplay. Its a big galaxy with lots of different things to do!
-
The current FW areas provide gameplay to satisfy pvp within certain restricted shiptypes and allows for capturing mechanics and bonuses for the victors.
Null sec provides gameplay with unrestricted ship types and allows for capturing mechanics and bonuses for the victors.
All other lowsec does neither of these things. My proposal is that this should be filled with a middle ground version of Fac Warfare which basically restricts some capital warfare.
My proposal does not suggest changing the current FW systems or gameplay. I think there should be, and should continue to be, small-ship specific pvp locations. The current FW systems provide this and aside from capture mechanics, etc it's great that this is a thing. More of that.
My proposal was for NEW FW locations to have different gameplay.
Bloodbird you have some nerve. You are bitter and aggressive, kindly chill out. You know exactly squat about my gameplay, who I'm shooting at, who is shooting at me, and the gameplay that goes on in my area. I put more ISK and assets at risk nearly every time I PVP than most people on this board do in a six months ship losses. There's nothing cozy about it, so you can shut right up with your judgments.
Unlike plenty of people in these parts, I try not to knock people for their chosen gameplay. If you like pvping in frigates, that's super. If you like shooting people in Titans, also super.
O...Kay. Still not onboard with Lowsec supers taking part, but w/e.
I still disagree strongly with your suggestion that all of Lowsec should become vulnerable in this. If the FacWar militias and the YarrWar militias have split lowsec between them, it still means that the mighty MilBlob will squat on what has previously been small gang and (yes, it's real) solo pirate turf, and effectively strangle them, as we have seen happen in FacWar regions. FacWar has shown us that even if you place all manner of limitations on plexes, the blob still blobs. We'd still need regions free of the war, where the commerce-raiding, missioner-tackling, and neighborly solo/small-gang-warring could thrive.
-
Bloodbird you have some nerve.
As do you, though in your defense you may not be aware and your not the only one. I am way to sleepy tonight but I'll be around later to elaborate.
Look to an edit of this post some time later, assuming the involved topic has not been cata'ed by then.
*EDIT*
I'll try and make this short as it will be a bit of a de-rail.
1) You Silas and Creep specifically has over the last few days given me the impression, in this tread and elsewhere, that your specific opinion on piracy, anti-piracy, FW etc. are along the lines of "Pirates are good/skilled/daring, anti-pies/FW players are blobbers/unskilled/generally bad" - a legitimate opinion to hold, if actual, but very condemning and likely biased by your experiences and beliefs.
2) When you propose then (as it seemed at the time) to alter FW to cater to bigger and more easily tanked hulls exclusively it seemed to me you wanted to cater FW to your own (supposed) ways by means of ships somewhat less likely to die to often. You can likely see how this would be taken as a bad thing, coming from someone that - apparently - thinks very little of FW players and non-pirates in general.
3) How often you PVP, with who, where, in what and losing whatever is completely irrelevant to my statement in the previous post. You try not to "knock people for their chosen gameplay"? That's great, except to me that's what your doing, though as stated perhaps not consciously. My own experience with pirates from years back when I was anti-pie'in in low-sec and more recently in FW has left me the impression pirates don't shy away from the 'blobby' game-style of large numbers of large ships either, pretty much pulling the rug from under any arguments you can make to the contrary - ergo, I am too biased by my experiences in this field.
Finally, with this bit of post out of the way I'll end this with the statement that having now read your clarification on desires (adding your proposal as a new and different thing to a new FW system as opposed to totally altering everything) things are indeed more clear, even if I think the biggest, unrestricted plexes give what you propose already. If there is anything more you want to say to me, consider mail or having a mod split our particular inputs to a new tread, I try not to de-rail to much these days ;)
-
I want someone to leak an CN/IW/CPF file(s) on Gariushi & Reppola to the Scope.
-
If they've done their thing right, there are no Ishukone Watch records on Otro Gariushi (at least before "became the CEO of Ishukone") and Menenden Reppola's records are probably at most uninteresting until participating on a daring raid to kill the rogue admiral Bane deep in Pure Blind, and then transferring to command the Ishukone Watch. Admitted, while Mens's history probably keeps mostly water, Gariushi's one has holes in it. That 25 million ISK bounty he had would have been noticed by quite a few bounty hunters, many of which would probably remember.
Similarly, the editor mentioned in The Better Part of Valor (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Better_Part_of_Valor_%28Chronicle%29) is listed as a Practical. So there is a chance that at some point, the old Home Guard records for one T. Heth will leak. And man, he was placed on station duty - which is the Caldari equivalent for being stationed to Greenland, with the added bonus of extremely cramped quarters - and was then thrown out.
-
1) You Silas and Creep specifically has over the last few days given me the impression, in this tread and elsewhere, that your specific opinion on piracy, anti-piracy, FW etc. are along the lines of "Pirates are good/skilled/daring, anti-pies/FW players are blobbers/unskilled/generally bad" - a legitimate opinion to hold, if actual, but very condemning and likely biased by your experiences and beliefs.
Correction: Most Pirates are — by and large — ganky, mediocre, or, at best, risk-averse.
My entire line of argument is: Pirates tend to fly small gang because there are few of them, while militias blob because there are a shitload of them. Militias and pirates do not co-exist well, because one is always able to swamp the other with sheer numbers, regardless of the skill-level of either side.
I suspect Silas will agree with me to some degree on this.
EDIT: I would also love for scrutiny to be placed upon Gariushi. I'm constantly amused by the "he was a man of peace, a hero, and a humanitarian!" stuff that gets thrown around, with the OOC knowledge of his piracy, presumed use of slave labor during the Crielere Project, and his general shady way of operating.
Besides, he is by far one of the cooler characters in the EVE universe.
-
Remove ship size restrictions from plexes, or remove plexes and change the capture system entirely.
Porting over the existing FW mechanics would be horribad IMO. There should be a range of activity. Perhaps keep the existing system for the Empires' proxy war, and make it scary and terrible for the pirate invasion border conflicts.
I'd prefer it if any new pirate FW system maintained the current lowsec ship types (generally BCs and up), instead of downgrading.
Silas, while I don't share Bloodbird's feelings, I do not think that "opening" the complexes in this way is a good idea. The highest levels of complex are already open to all comers, and they're not even all that uncommon.
The ship class filter has been responsible for some of the best fights I've ever been in. The PRETA versus Heretic Army destroyer fight was a frikkin' blast (32 versus 34 or so, five or six survivors), and none of us would have been flying those things if we hadn't been out to raid Minor sites. The filter provides diversity and gives smaller ships a role beyond tackling. For those of us who like the smaller, more maneuverable craft (and especially like to be able to indulge a dogfight without fearing a hotdrop or a sudden swarm of battlecruisers), the scaling sites are a godsend.
Just having "bring everything you like" fleets fight over everything would lead to a pretty monotonous war zone, methinks. At best, it's too closely analogous to other, existing conflict types. Nullsec tower wars, for example.
Now, one thing that I -do- think would be interesting would be making at least some pirate faction war complexes more ... complex. Multiple rooms, perhaps-- the equivalent of an actual mission zone, with a procedurally-generated maze of gates leading to the capture point, making both attack and defense trickier. I'm not sure it would work (it might just prove a massive boon to the defenders), but perhaps there could be hacking points that would allow an attacker to flip the loyalties of any static defenses (turrets, etc.), thereby slowing or halting a defender's pursuit.
-
O...Kay. Still not onboard with Lowsec supers taking part, but w/e.
I still disagree strongly with your suggestion that all of Lowsec should become vulnerable in this. If the FacWar militias and the YarrWar militias have split lowsec between them, it still means that the mighty MilBlob will squat on what has previously been small gang and (yes, it's real) solo pirate turf, and effectively strangle them, as we have seen happen in FacWar regions. FacWar has shown us that even if you place all manner of limitations on plexes, the blob still blobs. We'd still need regions free of the war, where the commerce-raiding, missioner-tackling, and neighborly solo/small-gang-warring could thrive.
I'd be super (hah) ok with no capitals in lowsec, actually. Bridging limited to black ops would be an interesting curve ball I'd definitely support.
Good points, and you are right that there needs to be a multiplicity of things going on in different areas. They should shotgun a bunch of different mechanics in different regions and see which ones work and the players enjoy :)
-
Silas, while I don't share Bloodbird's feelings, I do not think that "opening" the complexes in this way is a good idea. The highest levels of complex are already open to all comers, and they're not even all that uncommon.
The ship class filter has been responsible for some of the best fights I've ever been in. The PRETA versus Heretic Army destroyer fight was a frikkin' blast (32 versus 34 or so, five or six survivors), and none of us would have been flying those things if we hadn't been out to raid Minor sites. The filter provides diversity and gives smaller ships a role beyond tackling. For those of us who like the smaller, more maneuverable craft (and especially like to be able to indulge a dogfight without fearing a hotdrop or a sudden swarm of battlecruisers), the scaling sites are a godsend.
Just having "bring everything you like" fleets fight over everything would lead to a pretty monotonous war zone, methinks. At best, it's too closely analogous to other, existing conflict types. Nullsec tower wars, for example.
Now, one thing that I -do- think would be interesting would be making at least some pirate faction war complexes more ... complex. Multiple rooms, perhaps-- the equivalent of an actual mission zone, with a procedurally-generated maze of gates leading to the capture point, making both attack and defense trickier. I'm not sure it would work (it might just prove a massive boon to the defenders), but perhaps there could be hacking points that would allow an attacker to flip the loyalties of any static defenses (turrets, etc.), thereby slowing or halting a defender's pursuit.
Agree for the most part. My FW experience is limited but as you state it seems to tilt towards fast small ships (which is fine). I'm looking for a similar dynamic that tilts towards the common lowsec ships (BC/BS), but still perhaps a step down from omg cap ship fleets of doom, that's not flooded with the small stuff.
A mythical and elusive beast that shant be found perhaps :)
-
Agree for the most part. My FW experience is limited but as you state it seems to tilt towards fast small ships (which is fine). I'm looking for a similar dynamic that tilts towards the common lowsec ships (BC/BS), but still perhaps a step down from omg cap ship fleets of doom, that's not flooded with the small stuff.
A mythical and elusive beast that shant be found perhaps :)
Hrrm. Actually, the FW experience I had was a bit more diverse. I was involved in FW over a fair period, either as participant or meddler. I don't know whether this is still the case, but Amarr/Matari FW seemed to tend toward swarms of little stuff eating heavy ships, while the Gal/Cal FW tended towards heavier fleets with the little stuff scrambling to stay out of the way.
Everybody had everything, to some extent, but my recollection is that each "zone" developed its own culture, and, from that, its own strategies, tactics, and combat protocols. Interesting stuff.
(As a pirate, you mostly wanted a frigate or dessie squad to hit Amarr/Minnie space; for Gal/Cal, you wanted at least a cruiser. Pilgrims fared well. That's just my recollection, but PRETA had specific orders not to bring heavy ships into the Amarr/Minnie conflict because they would die horribly.)
-
RE: No capitals in Low sec: I think cyno's in low sec should take much, much longer than nulsec. Would cut down on the viability of hot dropping lone Hurricanes,nulsec logistics lines through low sec would still exist, albeit a bit more time consuming, but not crippling.
-
Silas, while I don't share Bloodbird's feelings, I do not think that "opening" the complexes in this way is a good idea. The highest levels of complex are already open to all comers, and they're not even all that uncommon.
The ship class filter has been responsible for some of the best fights I've ever been in. The PRETA versus Heretic Army destroyer fight was a frikkin' blast (32 versus 34 or so, five or six survivors), and none of us would have been flying those things if we hadn't been out to raid Minor sites. The filter provides diversity and gives smaller ships a role beyond tackling. For those of us who like the smaller, more maneuverable craft (and especially like to be able to indulge a dogfight without fearing a hotdrop or a sudden swarm of battlecruisers), the scaling sites are a godsend.
Just having "bring everything you like" fleets fight over everything would lead to a pretty monotonous war zone, methinks. At best, it's too closely analogous to other, existing conflict types. Nullsec tower wars, for example.
Now, one thing that I -do- think would be interesting would be making at least some pirate faction war complexes more ... complex. Multiple rooms, perhaps-- the equivalent of an actual mission zone, with a procedurally-generated maze of gates leading to the capture point, making both attack and defense trickier. I'm not sure it would work (it might just prove a massive boon to the defenders), but perhaps there could be hacking points that would allow an attacker to flip the loyalties of any static defenses (turrets, etc.), thereby slowing or halting a defender's pursuit.
Agree for the most part. My FW experience is limited but as you state it seems to tilt towards fast small ships (which is fine). I'm looking for a similar dynamic that tilts towards the common lowsec ships (BC/BS), but still perhaps a step down from omg cap ship fleets of doom, that's not flooded with the small stuff.
A mythical and elusive beast that shant be found perhaps :)
I have done FW for 3 years, and I had an equal chance of getting frigate/cruiser fights as getting BC/BS fights, and the latter in major complexes especially, so places with no restrictions actually have been there since the beginning.
Of course, it is a little more common to find frig/cruisers when no fleets are around. Who wants to solo in BSes anyway ?
-
This thread has exploded with activity. :lol:
I hope CCP is reading it.
-
Some of you may be miscalculating.
Tony G didn't come up with the idea of a possessed Empress. He just wrote about it.
How did I know Jamyl would return, before she returned?
-
[spoiler]Istvaan is The Other.[/spoiler]
-
[spoiler]No... merely one of its previous suits.[/spoiler]
-
Correction: Most Pirates are — by and large — ganky, mediocre, or, at best, risk-averse.
My entire line of argument is: Pirates tend to fly small gang because there are few of them, while militias blob because there are a shitload of them. Militias and pirates do not co-exist well, because one is always able to swamp the other with sheer numbers, regardless of the skill-level of either side.
I suspect Silas will agree with me to some degree on this.
This has been my experience. Although in reality it seems to me (again, from my limited experience as a "pirate" in TS-F) that we tend to outnumber to solo-plexers and random militia dues we get on gates, until we inevitably run into the Gallente Militia Hoard of 80+ ships which then proceeds to wipe our faces across the muddy, scrubby ground.
We blog the singles, and then get blobbed by the militia in turn, where blob = (My Fleet +1).
As to an earlier point you made, Bloodbird, the vast majority of pirates are not running around in battle cruisers. That was the old way of doing things before cruisers became fun. Frigates are bad choices for the low-sec non-militia-aligned pirate for the simple fact that you will never have the initiative on gates.
Please don't say that catching people inside of plexes is a reasonable option for making a living in low-sec, because it isn't.
-
Silas, while I don't share Bloodbird's feelings, I do not think that "opening" the complexes in this way is a good idea. The highest levels of complex are already open to all comers, and they're not even all that uncommon.
The ship class filter has been responsible for some of the best fights I've ever been in. The PRETA versus Heretic Army destroyer fight was a frikkin' blast (32 versus 34 or so, five or six survivors), and none of us would have been flying those things if we hadn't been out to raid Minor sites. The filter provides diversity and gives smaller ships a role beyond tackling. For those of us who like the smaller, more maneuverable craft (and especially like to be able to indulge a dogfight without fearing a hotdrop or a sudden swarm of battlecruisers), the scaling sites are a godsend.
Just having "bring everything you like" fleets fight over everything would lead to a pretty monotonous war zone, methinks. At best, it's too closely analogous to other, existing conflict types. Nullsec tower wars, for example.
Now, one thing that I -do- think would be interesting would be making at least some pirate faction war complexes more ... complex. Multiple rooms, perhaps-- the equivalent of an actual mission zone, with a procedurally-generated maze of gates leading to the capture point, making both attack and defense trickier. I'm not sure it would work (it might just prove a massive boon to the defenders), but perhaps there could be hacking points that would allow an attacker to flip the loyalties of any static defenses (turrets, etc.), thereby slowing or halting a defender's pursuit.
Agree for the most part. My FW experience is limited but as you state it seems to tilt towards fast small ships (which is fine). I'm looking for a similar dynamic that tilts towards the common lowsec ships (BC/BS), but still perhaps a step down from omg cap ship fleets of doom, that's not flooded with the small stuff.
A mythical and elusive beast that shant be found perhaps :)
Where are you flying around where BS's are the low-sec ship of choice? Please direct me to them!
-
Silas, while I don't share Bloodbird's feelings, I do not think that "opening" the complexes in this way is a good idea. The highest levels of complex are already open to all comers, and they're not even all that uncommon.
The ship class filter has been responsible for some of the best fights I've ever been in. The PRETA versus Heretic Army destroyer fight was a frikkin' blast (32 versus 34 or so, five or six survivors), and none of us would have been flying those things if we hadn't been out to raid Minor sites. The filter provides diversity and gives smaller ships a role beyond tackling. For those of us who like the smaller, more maneuverable craft (and especially like to be able to indulge a dogfight without fearing a hotdrop or a sudden swarm of battlecruisers), the scaling sites are a godsend.
Just having "bring everything you like" fleets fight over everything would lead to a pretty monotonous war zone, methinks. At best, it's too closely analogous to other, existing conflict types. Nullsec tower wars, for example.
Now, one thing that I -do- think would be interesting would be making at least some pirate faction war complexes more ... complex. Multiple rooms, perhaps-- the equivalent of an actual mission zone, with a procedurally-generated maze of gates leading to the capture point, making both attack and defense trickier. I'm not sure it would work (it might just prove a massive boon to the defenders), but perhaps there could be hacking points that would allow an attacker to flip the loyalties of any static defenses (turrets, etc.), thereby slowing or halting a defender's pursuit.
Agree for the most part. My FW experience is limited but as you state it seems to tilt towards fast small ships (which is fine). I'm looking for a similar dynamic that tilts towards the common lowsec ships (BC/BS), but still perhaps a step down from omg cap ship fleets of doom, that's not flooded with the small stuff.
A mythical and elusive beast that shant be found perhaps :)
Where are you flying around where BS's are the low-sec ship of choice? Please direct me to them!
I see about 10% of ships we shoot or are shot at by that are cruisers in our ass end of the universe the Khanid Region. It's BC/BS/T3
-
I did actually one day read certain person's fiction stuff from beta era and went like "where have I heard this bef--- actually later".
Beats barbeque planning.
-
I'd like to see factional warfare, both as a storyline and as a mechanic, end.
It's gotten the Empires nowhere and once Heth and Jamyl are gone there's really no reason for it to continue.
-
I'd like to see factional warfare, both as a storyline and as a mechanic, end.
It's gotten the Empires nowhere and once Heth and Jamyl are gone there's really no reason for it to continue.
Sure there is.
Roden and Blaque are not exactly peaceniks. Roden is a corporate weapons dealer, who benefits immensely (economically and politically) from Fed Navy re-armament contracts to support (/reintegrate) "friendly" Caldari corporations like Ishukone. Blaque is a Gallente supremacist, a U-Nat in all but name, who would like to see the State relegated to a third tier power. Instead of having the State be the aggressor, the Federation is the aggressor.
The Minmatar are not interested in peace with the Empire and so long as the Federation continues to support their war effort, will gladly kill those who follow the Amarrian faith in a cultural war of revenge.