Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Myyona on 03 Jun 2010, 04:06
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Am I supporting slavery?
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The most extreme views I think will say that doing any business in Amarrian stations is supporting slavery.
One could argue who they have operating production lines, in this instance. Opponents might say "Carthum production lines? Slaver!", which I could counter by saying "My personal staff are attending the production line, not Carthum slaves".
So on, so forth.
I would think if you don't want it to be, there is easy handwaving to solve the problem. Mind you, opponents tend to ignore your handwaving if they're deadset on harassing you.
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SLLLLLAAAAAVER!
:D
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I would never use slaves for my manufacturing!!!
Slaves must after all be housed, feed and generally decently taken care of, medically etc, to get a decent return on investment.
Employes on the other hand you can get at minimum wages, pretrained, then when workday is over they can starve for all that you need to care about....
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Well, you pay Carthum, and Carthum uses slaves. So, yes is a supportable view.
You might not employ slaves yourself. So No is supportable too.
I mean, it's easy - character wise - to rationalize it either way. Spending money on nearly anything in Amarr space could be considered supporting slavery, ultimately. Or spending money on anything that wasn't slaves, or that doesn't directly use slaves, and so on might be considered not supporting it.
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You are supporting an infrastructure and financial system that in turn supports and upkeeps Slavery in it's financial model. This means you are supporting slavery. And for that, you need to die.
/Du'uma Fiisi 0
No, you're not directly supporting slavery. But any anti-slaver can say you do, with good backing of their words, and would thus be justified in taking action.
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Slippery slope reasoning. If you buy equipment or sell on the open market you support slavery,terrorism,piracy,and anything else you hate.
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What if you support terrorism?
My point is simply this: Everything can be made to look like you're supporting or being anti-something. It's simply the way of Eve. That's how it is, and that's the risk I take every time I do anything at all in this game. I'm prepared to face the consequences of it too.
Isn't that the beauty of Eve?
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the Only place that is black and white in EVE, is some characters opinions.
Just the way I like it.
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If you are an anti-Amarrian terrorist, and Carthum lets you manufacture weapons in their station to use against the Empire, who is really at fault here?
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CONCORD!
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Apparently common sense is a Terran racial trait and New Eden has yet to unlock these secrets from the wormholes. :s
Allow me to elaborate. Terrorists aren't retarded. They can see the flaw in their own logic. If they were that fanatical they wouldn't buy from the open market either and only buy from manufacturers sympathetic to their cause. How many really do that, I wonder?
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No, seriously, as I understand it, they have to let all capsuleers have access to their stations and such due to CONCORD regs.
Then again, they signed up to CONCORD. Who's more the fool -- the fool, or the fool who follows him?
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There's one way of taking care of the ones that go as far as 'if you buy Amarrian, you support slavery!'.
Simply in a covert manner, replace the fittings and modules they have in their hangar, with exact replicas that were manufactured by slaves. Then you can nonchalantly tell them, "Say... you know that shield power relay you're using there..."
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We've secretly replaced Havohej's own 800mm armor plates with identical plates fabricated in the Empire by Viziam slave laborers. Let's see if he notices!
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We've secretly replaced Havohej's own 800mm armor plates with identical plates fabricated in the Empire by Viziam slave laborers. Let's see if he notices!
T2 800mm Armor plates are based on Amarrian Encryption, quiet possibly encoded by slaves. If you armor tank, you support slavery!
LSEIIs for ~1m isk for sale at your local Lai Dai retailers :D
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the Only place that is black and white in EVE, is some characters opinions.
Just the way I like it.
I don't know. Discounting explosions, there's not a lot of white in EVE, granted, but there's plenty of black. :D
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If you have anything to do with any economy in EVE you are supporting slavery.
It's like the wikipedia game where you try to get to Jesus with six clicks, you can probably get to Amarrian slave produced goods in some way or another by following the money trails...
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I believe the EVE market isn't complex enough to deal with this issue. You can't refuse to sell items to certain people of low standing, it's a general market that everyone has access to, even your enemies.
As far as who makes what, if a terrorist shoots Americans with an American made M-16, he's still a terrorist :p
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I disagree entirely. It certainly takes more effort to buy from trusted industrialists, and limits your options,but if you're playing a radical that should be a small price to pay.
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That's why we have a contract market and an "open" market (not to mention in-station player-to-player trade). Right on, Kaleigh.
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Yeah the contract system and open trades are just as user friendly as the market :P
If the average pvper didn't use the open market, they wouldn't have time to play eve.
"Hold on, I need to go to Dodixie to pick up a damage control on contract, then I need to run to Rens to get the AC's I need from a trusted person. The fleet will still be up in an hour right?
But if your level of immersion demands that you play contracts online instead of EVE online, more power to you.
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In larger organizations, there is often enough internal manufacturing to meet the needs of most members.
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Yeah the contract system and open trades are just as user friendly as the market :P
If the average pvper didn't use the open market, they wouldn't have time to play eve.
"Hold on, I need to go to Dodixie to pick up a damage control on contract, then I need to run to Rens to get the AC's I need from a trusted person. The fleet will still be up in an hour right?
But if your level of immersion demands that you play contracts online instead of EVE online, more power to you.
I think that's the point im trying to make. Calling out your own hypocrisy (ur supporting slavery using the open market while doing so yourself) isn't really all that wise to begin with.
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If your RP revolves around immersive trade, then I think that's a reasonable way to go.
If you're just trying to get back into space for (IC) pew pew, then you may need to compromise, sure.
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One of the things I've realized in Eve and in real life is that people will always be able to throw mud at you and have it stick, whether or not it should.
The key to surviving is being too powerful for those who throw mud to oppose.
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Yeah the contract system and open trades are just as user friendly as the market :P
If the average pvper didn't use the open market, they wouldn't have time to play eve.
"Hold on, I need to go to Dodixie to pick up a damage control on contract, then I need to run to Rens to get the AC's I need from a trusted person. The fleet will still be up in an hour right?
But if your level of immersion demands that you play contracts online instead of EVE online, more power to you.
Then you blow up an amarrian ship crewed my matari slaves and later run a mission for the republic which pays taxes to CONCORD. CONCORD then uses those taxes to defend the borders of the Amarrian Empire. Any one who has ever run a mission for any Empire or bought anything from the SCC market is a slaver.
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the Empires agri worlds also exported to the rest of the cluster, heavily enough that there were reports of shortages or even famines when the empyrean age war started and this trade was reduced.
Ealur, home of possibly the most sidelined and oppressed race in EVE, has a Gallente commercial station in it. "Genuine Handmade Sports Shoes!!!" :eek:
All the powers are part of the CONCORD treaties, which are supposed to keep humanity from wasting each other (again).
Selling anything in an Amarr station, or renting an office, or using any facilities, gives ISK to that Amarr corporation.
Purchasing datacores from Amarr agents, or blueprints for things too. Missions for Amarr corporations.
There's a whole lot of things that are indirectly benefitting from slavery.
Selling slaves, or purchasing them, however, directly supports slave trading and slavery.
That might be the only line that can be drawn.
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Even the Republic Security Services supposedly has secret dealings with the Angel Cartel. It 'can' be perfectly IC to have backroom dealings with enemy agents depending on your character's mindset and morality.
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Good points made by many here.
Allow me to take your conclusions one step further. 8)
Anything you do for CONCORD or any Empire can be connected to eventually supporting the Amarr Empire. Fine. True enough.
The only way I can see around this is to conclude that supporting the Amarr Empire is not the same as supporting slavery.
However, by that logic, opposing the Amarr Empire is not the same as opposing slavery...and that sort of thinking probably doesn't roll too well with BloodyFists or the like very well, eh?
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Good points made by many here.
Allow me to take your conclusions one step further. 8)
Anything you do for CONCORD or any Empire can be connected to eventually supporting the Amarr Empire. Fine. True enough.
The only way I can see around this is to conclude that supporting the Amarr Empire is not the same as supporting slavery.
However, by that logic, opposing the Amarr Empire is not the same as opposing slavery...and that sort of thinking probably doesn't roll too well with BloodyFists or the like very well, eh?
Religious Reformers.
Oppose slavery, Support Empire.
Glared at disapprovingly by all \o/
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So fight CONCORD. Join the pirate factions....
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I'd just like to take the time here to thank all the Imperialists who have supported my past terrorist actions by selling me weapons on the open market. :lol:
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I'd just like to take the time here to thank all the Imperialists who have supported my past terrorist actions by selling me weapons on the open market. :lol:
You know, it still makes me giggle that Kaz turned terrorist.
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Hell, when he did, I wanted EM to set U'K red for it.
Fortunately, nobody listened to me.
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Good times, I still miss getting shot at by you guys. :D