Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => The Summit (IG Channel Discussion) => Topic started by: Leopold Caine on 17 Oct 2012, 16:56
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I'd just like to know what is the reason that Leopold Caine suddenly got kicked out of the Summit moderation team with no IC or OOC message attached and an important news event was moved from the MOTD, but I'll let Silas be mad about that instead I suppose.
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I did it.
So ask me.
I have pleeenty of answers for you.
PS: didn't notice the news piece missing, we should fix that
PPS: Flamebait and the ensuing incoming flames don't get to be on Backstage. The rules still apply here. I've used the axe instead of the scalpel in this case.
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Leopold, when you're stuck in a ditch the appropriate response is not to keep digging.
Oh look, I was banned from the OOC. Cute. :bear:
This banning was for 12 hours from OOC, and was done in response to this:
[ 2012.10.16 23:16:30 ] Morwen Lagann > ... lol, I think we just had a minor earthquake
[ 2012.10.16 23:17:15 ] Halete > When Britain had a minor earth-quake, it was horrifying.
[ 2012.10.16 23:17:33 ] Halete > Living in a post-industrial region known for mining, I thought "Well, that's it, the street is going under."
[ 2012.10.16 23:21:14 ] Morwen Lagann > So there was a 4.5 about 15 miles away from the cabin in maine. looool >_>
[ 2012.10.16 23:21:31 ] Morwen Lagann > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/at00mc0dsp#summary
[ 2012.10.16 23:26:23 ] Leopold Caine > www.noonegivesafuckmorwen.com
This was fairly self-explanatory. You would've bitched your head off if I or someone else had done that to you - instead of doing that myself, I spoke to the other online moderators and was told a 12-hour ban was appropriate. It was put in, with the expectation you would not do something like that again.
Oh look, randomly banned from OOC again. Cute.
Again, like Tib said, it was anything but random, and entirely warranted, even according to Graelyn. I logged in this morning, spoke with some folks in Red's, and on my way out to the store figured I'd check OOC to see if anything was going on since it was blinking. I was greeted with this, without having said anything in the channel:
[ 2012.10.17 13:48:02 ] Shino Gekai > So wheres that cunt morwen? Still crying because shes a shit logi?
[ 2012.10.17 13:48:25 ] Leopold Caine > Incursions are srs bznsss, Shino.
[ 2012.10.17 13:48:35 ] Shino Gekai > You're joking
[ 2012.10.17 13:48:37 ] Salena Ashera > Especially the amount of time you've been doing them
[ 2012.10.17 13:48:45 ] Salena Ashera > thats especially srs bsns
[ 2012.10.17 13:48:48 ] Shino Gekai > I had no idea
[ 2012.10.17 13:48:57 ] Shino Gekai > Clearly im doing it wrong
[ 2012.10.17 13:49:15 ] Leopold Caine > Yeah, I've been doing srs bznss before you started playing Salena, so vOv
[ 2012.10.17 13:49:30 ] Salena Ashera > Yep, clearly I have no right to try srsbsns
[ 2012.10.17 13:49:47 ] Leopold Caine > srsbznss.
[ 2012.10.17 13:49:53 ] Leopold Caine > is srs
If you genuinely do not see what is wrong with your behavior there, then it's no surprise you don't understand why you lost your position on the Summit's moderator team. It's a prime example of un-moderatorlike behavior: instead of chastising the inexcusably out of line - and unwarranted - comments from Shino as befits a moderator, you and Salena (Anxiang) joined in and played along. It became quite clear that you had not learned the lesson from the previous night, and I conferred with the only other moderator around, and was told the following:
Permanent ban for Shino.
24 hours for you and Salena.
I put in the bans, then I forwarded the logs along to the moderators whose email addresses I had handy - Tib and Esna - and multiple people reported Shino's behavior as well as yours and Salena's to Graelyn directly. You want to know why you lost your moderator position in the Summit? That right there is why.
A final word of advice for you and Anxiang, as neither of you were permanently banned and will be allowed back in the channel as of approximately 14:00 EVE time: Sort your shit out, and don't continue down this path. It won't be tolerated.
(Edit: Removed segment responding to deleted posts.)
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I went ahead and fixed the issue with the newspiece missing. I got rid of it yesterday during the mess with updating the MOTD because we suspected length was causing the MOTD to mess up.
If you'd like it to say something different, please let me know.
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"Still, I'm glad you care about the fate of the channel. I really am always looking for ways to improve." ~Graelyn
"If you don't like the rules, you can leave the channel. It's really really easy to do." ~Morwen
I'm starting to see why so many people have issues with you, Morwen. I'm honestly disappointed.
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The thing is, the Summit/OOC isn't some RPers Right. It, like everything else, is a privilege that can be revoked for poor behavior. Shino, Leo, and Salena broke the rules in OOC and got temp bans for it, and the fact that Leopold was involved in that obviously contributed to his loss of mod status. I don't see how the moderators acted poorly in this situation. Stillwater is not being victimized or politicized, however much certain people within Stillwater seem to be trying to play the victim. They received the exact same treatment as everyone else, and if any of you think that calling someone a cunt is appropriate channel behavior then try it and see what happens.
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"Still, I'm glad you care about the fate of the channel. I really am always looking for ways to improve." ~Graelyn
"If you don't like the rules, you can leave the channel. It's really really easy to do." ~Morwen
I'm starting to see why so many people have issues with you, Morwen. I'm honestly disappointed.
Your only post on this board is to complain about Morwen.
You've sent mails to me. They have all been about how you don't like Morwen (and requesting to be a mod?). Every one happens to coincide with Leo here getting into some trouble.
How seriously should I take your complaints and suggestions?
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I was called an asshole in there not that long ago by some nameless crazy, with mods around, but nothing happened. I can brush that off, but it's important to show consistency when penalising users, otherwise you end up looking like an idiot, and lose their respect. I was also banned from the summit on the whim of someone I'd never said a word to, having remained silent in there for the best part of a quarter, not that long ago. Moderation of summit/ooc has always been fueled by personal grievance, from what I've experienced. I think that's maybe why we're seeing things like this happen. I've written to Graelyn about it frequently, but despite his reassurances, nothing seems to change. Since the consensus appears to be "deal with it or leave", I'd expect to see alternative channels (and forums, since posts are being deleted) surface, if they haven't already. Shame.
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You've sent mails to me. They have all been about how you don't like Morwen (and requesting to be a mod?). Every one happens to coincide with Leo here getting into some trouble.
I've never once said I don't like Morwen. I think he's alright, we haven't really spoken much, but I've had issues with his moderation. I'm quite able to seperate the moderator from the person, things aren't always black and white.
I've request to be a mod because your current mods haven't been doing a good job in my and others' opinion.
My latest mail to you coincided with Leo getting into trouble. I didn't really know him until a couple of weeks ago.
How seriously should I take your complaints and suggestions?
That's up to you, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent them as you've done here.
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I was called an asshole in there not that long ago by some nameless crazy, with mods around, but nothing happened. I can brush that off, but it's important to show consistency when penalising users, otherwise you end up looking like an idiot, and lose their respect. I was also banned from the summit on the whim of someone I'd never said a word to, having remained silent in there for the best part of a quarter, not that long ago. Moderation of summit/ooc has always been fueled by personal grievance, from what I've experienced. I think that's maybe why we're seeing things like this happen. I've written to Graelyn about it frequently, but despite his reassurances, nothing seems to change. Since the consensus appears to be "deal with it or leave", I'd expect to see alternative channels (and forums, since posts are being deleted) surface, if they haven't already. Shame.
I don't think anyone else wants to put up with the bullshit we do.
I've been told for years, almost always by banned parties, that 'THIS IS IT, We're Gonna Go Make Something Where Your Rules Don't Mean Shit'
I still await word of such an endeavor.
I can assure you I would be among the first of it's hopeful userbase.
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That's up to you, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent them as you've done here.
>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.
Separating the real from the bullshit is such an enjoyable activity.
If I'm lumping you in with the others unfairly, then I apologize, but you see what this looks like from here, yes?
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>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.
Still waiting to hear what Leo did to cause such a complaint.
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Did you consider that may be because some of the staff have grudges themselves? I'm told this is the case by some, and while I lack the information necessary to form a solid opinion myself, I imagine it would seem worthy of consideration to you.
I can see why you might assume I have a grudge with Tib if you know my history with TS-F (god damn you all <3), which certainly isn't the case. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you'd have reason to assume that my complaints are bullshit. If you thought so, you could've told me, and I'd have stopped wasting my time.
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>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.
Still waiting to hear what Leo did to cause such a complaint.
No one complained this time, actually.
I got 4 mails going
"OMG Morwen just kicked Leo! Here are the logs! See? That's nothing! Fuck Morwen!"
My response after reading said 'defenses' was "Uhh, that's not nothing, and I sure won't have mods behaving that way."
I got another copy of the logs from the other mods. They matched. Welp.
I checked with myself to make sure I agreed. Yup.
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"Still, I'm glad you care about the fate of the channel. I really am always looking for ways to improve." ~Graelyn
"If you don't like the rules, you can leave the channel. It's really really easy to do." ~Morwen
I'm starting to see why so many people have issues with you, Morwen. I'm honestly disappointed.
I honestly don't give a shit whether you're "disappointed" or not. Here's why:
Your reaction to the moderator response to two displays of clearly inappropriate behavior was "omg they did nothing wrong" (they did) and "but it was actually funny" (it wasn't) and "the mods are humourless dicks," (we aren't) rather than "dude, not cool" (it wasn't) and "reporting the problem to Graelyn" (I'm guessing you didn't).
Your reaction to a rule that has been in place for almost (over?) a year that has helped reduce senseless, stupid drama and pointless work for the moderation team, is that it is "retarded", when in fact it is not. It is a rule against a particular behavior, not against the discussion subject. People can discuss slavery all they like, and the moderators only step in when people start going for blood. Bringing slaves on screen has always caused more of a ruckus, and oddly enough the majority of people who spent inordinate amounts of time complaining about (or breaking) the rule are precisely the people who have an affinity for creating pointless drama.
You are constantly giving Tiberious shit for no reason other than his membership in a corporation that you have bad history with that he was never involved in, even when he tries to help you. It was over a year ago and if you haven't figured out by now that nobody cares anymore then there's really nothing we can do.
In short:
- Don't like a particular rule? Ask nicely and provide a good reason for it to be removed rather than calling it retarded. We can't promise we'll actually change the rule just because one person asks, but you'll get past the "no, you're retarded" entry barrier at least.
- We aren't going to tolerate that kind of behavior from anyone in either channel. It doesn't matter if you think it's funny, and it doesn't matter if you don't like the mods. If you call someone a cunt, expect to be kicked in yours. End of story.
- If you can't or won't play by the rules, the door is over there. You can choose whether to be a productive member of the channel or not. But if you choose not to, you're going to end up going through that door eventually anyway - either under your own power or ours. We don't really care which.
Addressing the posts missed while I've been typing:
- Typically, when someone is misbehaving and breaking rules in a repeated fashion, moderator action against that individual tends to ramp up as well. This does not make it personal. It makes it in response to misbehavior and rule-breaking. Don't like it? Don't misbehave.
- You can say you could do a better job all you want, but your actions the last few days really don't indicate that.
- Having a grudge, and actually acting on it, are two wholly different things. Are there people who use the channel that various moderators don't like? Hell yes - there always have been. Do we single them out for moderation on that alone? Never. Why then, do some of those people find themselves being moderated anyway? Because they break rules.
Leo: You have your explanation in my first post above. You can take it or leave it - but don't pretend people haven't given you an explanation.
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>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.
Still waiting to hear what Leo did to cause such a complaint.
No one complained this time, actually.
I got 4 mails going
"OMG Morwen just kicked Leo! Here are the logs! See? That's nothing! Fuck Morwen!"
My response after reading said 'defenses' was "Uhh, that's not nothing, and I sure won't have mods behaving that way."
I got another copy of the logs from the other mods. They matched. Welp.
I checked with myself to make sure I agreed. Yup.
I'm sorry, Morwen never kicked Leo from The Summit.
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I can see why you might assume I have a grudge with Tib if you know my history with TS-F (god damn you all <3), which certainly isn't the case. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you'd have reason to assume that my complaints are bullshit. If you thought so, you could've told me, and I'd have stopped wasting my time.
No, not till I saw your only ever posts suddenly weighing in on the same thing your mail did.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
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>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.
Still waiting to hear what Leo did to cause such a complaint.
No one complained this time, actually.
I got 4 mails going
"OMG Morwen just kicked Leo! Here are the logs! See? That's nothing! Fuck Morwen!"
My response after reading said 'defenses' was "Uhh, that's not nothing, and I sure won't have mods behaving that way."
I got another copy of the logs from the other mods. They matched. Welp.
I checked with myself to make sure I agreed. Yup.
I'm sorry, Morwen never kicked Leo from The Summit.
You're right, I never kicked you from the Summit. [Edited - Hey, cut that out. -g]
What I did do however, was kick you - twice in the space of 24 hours - from OOC. Your moderator position in the Summit was removed separately, and it was done by Graelyn. I had nothing to do with it, and neither did any of the other moderators.
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I was called an asshole in there not that long ago by some nameless crazy, with mods around, but nothing happened. I can brush that off, but it's important to show consistency when penalising users, otherwise you end up looking like an idiot, and lose their respect. I was also banned from the summit on the whim of someone I'd never said a word to, having remained silent in there for the best part of a quarter, not that long ago. Moderation of summit/ooc has always been fueled by personal grievance, from what I've experienced. I think that's maybe why we're seeing things like this happen. I've written to Graelyn about it frequently, but despite his reassurances, nothing seems to change. Since the consensus appears to be "deal with it or leave", I'd expect to see alternative channels (and forums, since posts are being deleted) surface, if they haven't already. Shame.
Hi, what? I dealt with that issue myself, the second I got back from work. Do you happen to remember that conversation? It was prefaced with a lot of people saying "Talk to Tib", and you saying "Pfft, like he's going to be unbiased".
Then I talked with you and sorted out the issue.
Short memory?
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You're right, I never kicked you from the Summit. It's also probably the first bit of actual genuine truth that I've heard out of your mouth in months, so good job on that.
I'll just leave that there and giggle.
What I did do however, was kick you - twice in the space of 24 hours - from OOC. Your moderator position in the Summit was removed separately, and it was done by Graelyn. I had nothing to do with it, and neither did any of the other moderators.
I think this is what you are all missing. I was never a moderator of OOC, I got my roles in Summit revoked. I'd like to understand the IC explanation behind it, that's all.
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I'm pretty sure Leo there isn't an IC explaination. Actually im almost positive there isnt since you havent been IC in the summit for a little while. It could be about "your slaves are showing" haha
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In the entire time you have been a moderator in the Summit, I and other mods can only remember you actually doing your job once, and that was within the last month. The rest of the time you're pushing your luck and trying to piss people off.
Call it failure to meet the terms of your contract.
The two channels are paired companions. You should have had moderator access in OOC, and in fact did at one point. Things you do as a moderator in one can (and will) affect your status in the other channel as a moderator, and that's how it's been since Graelyn decided to unify the two mod lists. There are only two reasons you wouldn't be on the list in OOC but on it in the Summit: someone removed you from the list (Graelyn, if anyone) or you removed yourself.
Given a perceived lack of noise on Graelyn's end for a good while regarding moderation, the assumption that you had done it yourself was a reasonable one, and so we didn't feel like "correcting" it. If you felt you should've had access in there, the onus was on you to do something about it. You certainly didn't seem to, and that really only made it seem even more like the right guess.
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Ya'll need hug this out, post haste.
Quit cooking up these Hater-Tots
No more washing down with gallons of hator-aide.
I see this as a great case of everyone on all sides needing to chill the hell out.
I've found private conversations with rule-breakers tends to work really well before implementing kicks/bans as well.
While not as satisfying as dispensing immediate justice, it often saves the issue of people getting their appearances hurt with a public kicking, and generally lets people diffuse a situation far from the peanut gallery of opinions.
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You should have had moderator access in OOC, and in fact did at one point.
No, I was never given any rights regarding OOC.
Given a perceived lack of noise on Graelyn's end for a good while regarding moderation, the assumption that you had done it yourself was a reasonable one, and so we didn't feel like "correcting" it. If you felt you should've had access in there, the onus was on you to do something about it. You certainly didn't seem to, and that really only made it seem even more like the right guess.
Ok, let me get this straight. Are you know trying to faux things to make it look like I resigned as a Summit Mod?
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Who's to say that i wouldnt have apologized for my comments on OOC if someone said they werent comfortable with the things i said? Never hurts to convo people when they break the rules IMO.
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First: The quoted segment refers to your moderator position in OOC, not the Summit.
Second: Not in the slightest. Failure to meet the terms of your contract has the implication that you were fired. Which, as it happens, you were. Try to spin it all you want by quoting things and responding to them with incorrect context, but it won't change anything.
Shino: I had already warned you the day before to watch the words you use. You pretty clearly didn't pick up on it, and I wasn't the one who made the decision to make your ban permanent. All I did was send logs to another moderator, and then dish out the responses they suggested. As I told you before you were banned, you need to take it up with Tib (or Graelyn) if you want it reversed, because I'm not going to.
The idea of you apologizing - and actually meaning it - for that stunt yesterday is pretty laughable, really, given the timing and content.
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Hi, what? I dealt with that issue myself, the second I got back from work. Do you happen to remember that conversation? It was prefaced with a lot of people saying "Talk to Tib", and you saying "Pfft, like he's going to be unbiased".
Then I talked with you and sorted out the issue.
Short memory?
Which event are you referring to?
If the former, I remember you showing up and asking us to stop shitting up the channel in your cute authoritative way. Unless you think calling someone a cunt is worse than calling someone an asshole, there's room for improvement in the channel moderation's consistency, don't you think?
The latter.. I don't recall saying that, though it would've been in jest if I did, and hopefully worded so that it would've been clearly interpreted so.
"Short memory?" - this is why I don't like you. You come across as arrogant and unpersonable most of the time. That's useful in some areas, but not when it comes to internet spaceship community moderation.
I honestly don't give a shit whether you're "disappointed" or not.
I know that. Just saying :)
You are constantly giving Tiberious shit for no reason other than his membership in a corporation that you have bad history with that he was never involved in, even when he tries to help you. It was over a year ago and if you haven't figured out by now that nobody cares anymore then there's really nothing we can do.
It's a stretch to say I'm constantly giving him shit. This is about as delusional as the rest of the quote. See my last post for clarification. People will like you more if you don't assume you know everything about the intentions of others, especially others you've spent about 5 minutes talking to over a year or more.
- If you can't or won't play by the rules, the door is over there.
Does this mean that discussing or commenting on the rules is forbidden? Or that you just don't like it when it happens because you think your word should be final?
- You can say you could do a better job all you want, but your actions the last few days really don't indicate that.
Because I'm questioning whether you're doing a good job or not?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I appreciate that, even though it seems like Morwen won't.
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Who's to say that i wouldnt have apologized for my comments on OOC if someone said they werent comfortable with the things i said? Never hurts to convo people when they break the rules IMO.
For the record, calling someone what you did, especially in an aggressive way, is going to make the person you are calling a name uncomfortable. You should expect that this sort of thing will be dealt with in the future. So, are you apologizing?
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Well thats your opinion. I am ok staying out of OOC. I don't believe in staying where people dont want you. I do think there should be a channel where other people new to RP can learn and ask questions that will get answered about how to get into RP especially for people like me and other Japanese that will be instantly banned for our poor understanding of english whimsical comments, inuendos, and whatever that other word i called. It's pretty clear i cant mesh with this westerner group of people.
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Hi Shino,
You should contact me so I can let you know that, no, calling people things such as you did is not acceptable. Then you can apologize to the offended, and we can get your permaban sorted out.
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First: The quoted segment refers to your moderator position in OOC, not the Summit.
I was never a moderator in the OOC.
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Well now i know it isnt acceptable :D I dont need to be unbanned i already understand your message. I will try and find another group for me and my friends.
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Shino mad, bro. :|
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I do think there should be a channel where other people new to RP can learn and ask questions that will get answered about how to get into RP
There is something I had hammered into me the first time I was in EM.
There is no such thing as 'someone should'. There is only 'I will' or 'I won't'.
If you think another channel is needed, make one.
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:D Well i can't make a channel to ask questions in and have them answered if i myself do not know and am new to rp :oops:
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:D Well i can't make a channel to ask questions in and have them answered if i myself do not know and am new to rp :oops:
Best way to learn is to teach ;)
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This line of thinking is very strange to me. How can you teach something you know nothing about ? Wouldnt that be the same as me teaching people how to use Russian when i dont know any russian ? :s
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This line of thinking is very strange to me. How can you teach something you know nothing about ? Wouldnt that be the same as me teaching people how to use Russian when i dont know any russian ? :s
It's the same idea as 'practice makes perfect'. By RPing a lot, you will get better at RP over time.
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Rp'ng and getting better i agree with but that requires an understanding of RP to initiate not to mention other people asking me questions i could never answer until i had done it and ofc gotten banned from somewhere else :oops:
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First: The quoted segment refers to your moderator position in OOC, not the Summit.
I was never a moderator in the OOC.
That's irrelevant, and I have little reason to believe it is true. There's no reason you should've been an exception given that every other moderator was an op in both channels when Graelyn added all of us. The onus was on you to have it corrected, and because you never seemed to bother trying to do so, it was expected that you didn't care - given that it's common knowledge that the mod lists were intended to be the same for both channels, you can't claim you didn't know. It was your responsibility to ask Graelyn to fix it. Not ours to fix it for you - or for us to care.
Your moderator privileges were removed in the Summit as a result of your behavior in OOC, the sister/companion channel. What you do in one channel affects your status as a moderator in the other, regardless of whether or not you're a mod in both channels.
Shino: English not being your first language is no excuse. You'd spent a little under a week in the channel as far as I could tell, and not only had I answered some of your questions, I had also politely informed you that calling someone "impotent" for no reason was inappropriate and that you should take more care with the words you use. You've also been in Stillwater for two months, and it is no secret that Leo and the other moderators do not get along at all. If I travel to a foreign country and break a bunch of social rules, I'm not going to get a ton of wiggle room from the locals. The internet is no different.
So exactly what am I supposed to think when I'm presented with the situation from yesterday? I logged in, and hadn't said anything at all before I saw you calling me a cunt, followed by your two corpmates - Leo included - joining in instead of telling you that it was inappropriate. That it was all in good fun? No. Too much adding up to say it was deliberate and meant to be insulting, even with language barriers.
Even in the unlikely situation that you were told to say that and genuinely didn't know what it meant, you still had the option of saying "No" and not doing it. But you did it anyway, and your actions had consequences.
I do understand the catch-22 situation with the channel stuff. There aren't any other large discussion channels for the RP community where you can ask other people with experience to give you advice to practice, and it is silly to try starting a channel to help teach about things you don't have any experience with. That's probably why Tib is offering to speak with you. Of all the options you have available to you right now, that one is probably the most likely to get you somewhere. I would suggest taking it.
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Rp'ng and getting better i agree with but that requires an understanding of RP to initiate not to mention other people asking me questions i could never answer until i had done it and ofc gotten banned from somewhere else :oops:
You will only get banned if you misbehave. And by that, I mean blatantly break the rules. If you are unsure of the rules, just ask. The moderators are not there to ban every single person who makes a mistake, they are there to keep the channel civil and on topic.
As Tib said on the last page, you can absolutely contact him or any of the other moderators about your banning, and talk it through with them. Unless you are completely unrepentant, or are just out to be a nuisance I sincerely doubt you will have any trouble getting back into the channel (I'm not overly sure if you were banned from the summit or OOC).
All you really need to do is just remain civil, and there won't be any reason for you to be banned. This will hold true in more or less any channel you ever join.
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Regarding the bans from OOC:
A line of profanity was spewed at a mod that someone was apparently upset with. Two other people joined in on the mocking.
In case this isn't blatantly obvious, insulting a mod - let alone with the kind of language used here - is one of the fastest ways to earn yourself a ban.
It is our job as moderators to keep OOC and the Summit a calm, reasonable place where players new and old can interact without fear of being flamed, cursed at, or otherwise. We are not suppressing anyone who disagrees with a cabal of elitist mods - even in the bannings discussed here, people openly questioned the bans and were not muted, banned, or anything of the sort. Why not? Because they did so without involving pointless mocking of the mods, insults, or bursts of crude language.
[more explanations to come as I sift through some logs]
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- If you can't or won't play by the rules, the door is over there. You can choose whether to be a productive member of the channel or not. But if you choose not to, you're going to end up going through that door eventually anyway - either under your own power or ours. We don't really care which.
:roll:
So the RP Civil War has begun. Its about time.
I think Morwen (aka Miss Chatlog 2010), has fairly well summed up the attitude of the whole “Summit / Backstage” system.
You do it our way by our rules or piss off. Now it is their channel, notice the.. THEIR. So they can do what they please. I left Summit / OOC channels a long time ago so no loss to me.
Oh yes and while I am at it, SUPPRISE Boss Man "G", your moderators are human and they have their own little personal grudges.
Now I do appreciate the effort it takes to run a channel and a forum such as this. But RP requires a community and to be honest I just don’t think that’s “your” motivation.
Morwen invited us to leave; personally I think we should take her advice. :idea:
It’s a damned shame. I actually liked this forum.
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Ya'll need hug this out, post haste.
Quit cooking up these Hater-Tots
No more washing down with gallons of hator-aide.
I see this as a great case of everyone on all sides needing to chill the hell out.
I've found private conversations with rule-breakers tends to work really well before implementing kicks/bans as well.
While not as satisfying as dispensing immediate justice, it often saves the issue of people getting their appearances hurt with a public kicking, and generally lets people diffuse a situation far from the peanut gallery of opinions.
I have an internet crush on you now Silas.
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So the RP Civil War has begun.
lol
Edit:
I don't think I made myself clear enough the first time, so I'm adding this
(http://i.imgur.com/0MkY8.jpg)
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First: The quoted segment refers to your moderator position in OOC, not the Summit.
I was never a moderator in the OOC.
That's irrelevant, and I have little reason to believe it is true.
Uhm, if I was ever a moderator in OOC, you wouldn't be able to ban me. Also, let's play with the paradox there.
Leopold Caine was banned from OOC whilst being a mod (somehow) for being afk whilst his corpmate called an OOC moderator thngs they weren't happy to hear. Like for example:
You're right, I never kicked you from the Summit. It's also probably the first bit of actual genuine truth that I've heard out of your mouth in months, so good job on that.
At the same time, Leopold Caine was removed from the Summit moderation because for some reason OOC = IC, or it should be and if you ask any questions about it, you will get banned to *end quote*
Now let's get back to page 1 of the topic if I'm wrong and someone please answer my question without morwen's tautological plot hole ridden bullshit, sil vous plait?
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Don't even try that.
If you were a moderator in OOC at one point, you either removed yourself or were removed by Graelyn. You haven't been one for a while, but because YOU did not ask to have it fixed, nothing was done.
You weren't AFK in the slightest. You actively contributed. You responded to the original comment by Shino within twenty seconds of him saying so and proceeded to do so for two minutes, along with Salena.
You were removed from Summit moderation many hours later by Graelyn after HE had reviewed logs and reports from that morning. I had nothing to do with that, nor did I even know about it until afterwards when Tib was having trouble getting the MOTD to work right - in fact I had been out for dinner and was coming home when it happened.
You have your answer to the question, multiple times from me and Tib. You even have it from Graelyn:
>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.
Still waiting to hear what Leo did to cause such a complaint.
No one complained this time, actually.
I got 4 mails going
"OMG Morwen just kicked Leo! Here are the logs! See? That's nothing! Fuck Morwen!"
My response after reading said 'defenses' was "Uhh, that's not nothing, and I sure won't have mods behaving that way."
I got another copy of the logs from the other mods. They matched. Welp.
I checked with myself to make sure I agreed. Yup.
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Perhaps everyone who is pissed at each other can take this shit elsewhere? I know we all got points to make but I don't see any of the statements or responses bringing any resolution to anything. A few more pages of tit-for-tat circle jerking isn't going to mend any fences here. Do it behind closed doors.
But:
1. Let's not antagonize despite when we feel we've justification to do so.
2. Let's HTFU just a smidge on all sides.
I think I'm friendly with most involved here so:
Leo has some cause to be pissed, but probably didn't go about his response in the most productive manor.
Morwen got called some names, might have been better to handle it immediately but privately and stave off public drama
It's all good though.
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This thread needs to be sterilized.
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That's not because that place it dedicated to the Summit/OOC that it has to level down to its standards. I think we are still on backstage and mudslinging contests are not welcome last I remember.
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Sticking my head in to just neutrally confirm that yes, mods can de-mod (and then ban) other mods.
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1. Let's not antagonize despite when we feel we've justification to do so.
2. Let's HTFU just a smidge on all sides.
Prettymuch exactly what I've been thinking as I read this thread.
e; I'm not going to be contributing much to this thread—most know who my friends in game are and I'm not here to be biased—but I can't help but take this as a sign that the community as a whole needs thicker skins.
Just my opinion though, make what you will of it.
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At the same time, Leopold Caine was removed from the Summit moderation because for some reason OOC = IC, or it should be and if you ask any questions about it, you will get banned to *end quote*
Now let's get back to page 1 of the topic if I'm wrong and someone please answer my question without morwen's tautological plot hole ridden bullshit, sil vous plait?
Facepalm.
Your actions in OOC reflect on your privilege to be a moderator at all. If I was a channel mod, and I saw someone behaving like you did, even in a completely unrelated channel, I would take issue with it, because it is just not the sort of behavior that is acceptable for a moderator to display. Your actions in OOC represented a gross lack of conduct. Period. IC never came into it because in this case IC does not matter. Summit moderation is both IC and OOC. You messed up OOCly and face the consequences of it. The fact that your character didn't do anything ICly to warrant demodding doesn't matter in the slightest. You were demodded for OOC reasons, based on your OOC actions. Attacking morwen, and attacking Tiberious, and attacking Graelyn, doesn't change the facts. There is no loophole or technicality to fit through, you are not going to argue your moderator status back, and the fact that you refuse to even see what you did wrong reflects extremely poorly on your character, and if anything, is hurting your chances of ever being a moderator again.
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If leo broke rules and gots to go, then so be it. However Moderators will appear to have cleaner hands in the matter by not speaking in such sanctimonious tones.
A few of the dispensers of justice in these proceedings will engender more love and less friction by toning it down.
The person executing the sentence should not necessarily take joy in executing the sentence; it should be seen as a failure to speak reason to someone breaking the rules, not as vindictive behavior.
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[mod]Generally moderation of this sub-forum is mostly left to actual moderators of the Summit (Graelyn, largely). However, given how far off the rails it is, I'm going to lock it. He can review and unlock it if he would like.[/mod]
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Good by me.