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[Arvash]

Is there any PF or generally accepted truth around how the Gallente run their elections? How they gather the votes, tally or confirm them, what positions are elected vs appointed, whether anything physical is collected or it is entirely virtual/digital, etc. I want to write something about a Gallente election gone wrong and so am looking for the exploitable holes without overstepping into things that are generally agreed to be "not possible" or "not generally accepted". Links to PF especially appreciated. Thanks!

[Katrina Oniseki]

Okay. Posts deleted. Y'all win. I don't care enough about this topic to argue it.

[Seriphyn]

Keep in mind the Fed is a "true" democracy (whatever that is) and doesn't have an impenetrable two-party system or electoral college system like the US. I doubt it could sustain itself if its very elections were "corrupt", either.  The Fed is going to be a far superior democracy to anything we have irl, but that is in no way an automatic good thing nor does it make the Fed any less susceptible to tyranny than the other factions (might make it worse in fact; imagine if you had a non-consensus opinion on GalNet, like a Republican on Reddit).

Don't really know why the Fed has to be consistently compared to the US when there's loads of other democracies to use as examples. Even then that's comparing land-based entities to a space one, descended from at least one civilization that has been democratic far longer than any contemporary Western country. Seems lazy and unoriginal, and a great way to cheapen the faction and send us running for the other empires (which I hope aren't perceived as magically noncorrupt btw). It just denies the opportunity to explore how democracy survives in space with technology.

To answer your question though, there's no PF on it. Even with the Fed being the cluster leader on tech alongside the Caldari, they are apparently unable to have their very own Senate meet in an emergency despite having both having invented FTL comms and holopresence. Hate to be bitter, but you can assume CCP ineptitude in being unable to write a futuristic democracy in any compelling way.

I'd pick a small planet or Fed country and write whatever you want. I'd talk to Shaalira D'arc, who is very good at writing how democracy is facilitated with future tech.

[lallara zhuul]

There is PF on the mechanics on it just a tiny bit.

Back in the infamous Gallente Federation election days the ballots were actual items to be transported by the characters.

Which would suggest that the actual voting is not very high-tech and to prevent tampering the votes are actually put into a permanent uncorruptable medium that would be transported to the central location where they would be tallied. Of course the capsuleers made the mess of things by not having all the ballots delivered, which meant that since then capsuleers were not trusted to be part of the election process even as volunteer labourers.

Also, there does not seem to be that many parties within the Federation. Which would suggest that 'real' democracy does not exist in the Federation and the people choose their representatives according to arcane rules that are not shared with the capsuleer population. Who at the moment cannot vote.

If I would start building a template for the democracy of the Federation then it would be closer to the British one than the American one. Both the Federation and the British Empire used to be monarchies and empires spanning vast areas, both are thoroughly corrupted by the fact that the democracy is built on the economy of the old empire when the democracy makes its decision based on economical wellbeing it serves the old elite.

[Seriphyn]

Gonna be a broken record here now, but I do not understand why the Fed must consistently be handed the shortest straw with regards to how effectively it stands by its founding principles. By the players, every attempt is made to cheapen the literary value of the faction be reducing it to a giant sham and apparently on par with an Earth-based democracy that the Fed shares very little similarities with outside of similar names for its top level branches.

There is an assumption made that the possibility the Fed is a superior democracy means it is superior to all the other factions, because we as players from the West are thoroughly indoctrinated that democracy is always superior. And we can't have that in a grimdark universe. If the Caldari State can be an effective meritocracy, there is no reason why the Fed cannot be an effective democracy.

Of course, what does effective democracy mean? Daily elections, referendums, crazy levels of accountability and scrutiny that ousts politicians for the slightest mishaps at a drop of a hat. And what does THAT mean? The chronic inability to act decisively when it is needed most. It is all over the references to the Gallente.

Point is, you can have a perfect democracy that breeds an imperfect society. Every effort is made to tear Fed democracy down to a sham because if it was perfect, it  would be the "best" faction. And we can't have that.

[lallara zhuul]

Dude, I recognize a faction fanboi because I am one.

I used to think that the Amarr were the infallible, uncorrupted, The Only Best Faction There Is.

Then I stopped projecting my wishes and dreams into EVE and saw it for what it really was.

A medium for storytelling by the original creators of the backstory.

They made all the factions fallible and all of them corrupted.

Starting with the Jovians, going through the Big Four and all the pirate factions.

They all suck.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Okay. Posts deleted. Y'all win. I don't care enough about this topic to argue it.

[Silas Vitalia]

I'm in ur boothz, hackin' ur votez.     

[Seriphyn]

You both completely misread what I said in my post.

[Lyn Farel]

Keep in mind the Fed is a "true" democracy (whatever that is) and doesn't have an impenetrable two-party system or electoral college system like the US. I doubt it could sustain itself if its very elections were "corrupt", either.  The Fed is going to be a far superior democracy to anything we have irl, but that is in no way an automatic good thing nor does it make the Fed any less susceptible to tyranny than the other factions (might make it worse in fact; imagine if you had a non-consensus opinion on GalNet, like a Republican on Reddit).

Don't really know why the Fed has to be consistently compared to the US when there's loads of other democracies to use as examples. Even then that's comparing land-based entities to a space one, descended from at least one civilization that has been democratic far longer than any contemporary Western country. Seems lazy and unoriginal, and a great way to cheapen the faction and send us running for the other empires (which I hope aren't perceived as magically noncorrupt btw). It just denies the opportunity to explore how democracy survives in space with technology.

To answer your question though, there's no PF on it. Even with the Fed being the cluster leader on tech alongside the Caldari, they are apparently unable to have their very own Senate meet in an emergency despite having both having invented FTL comms and holopresence. Hate to be bitter, but you can assume CCP ineptitude in being unable to write a futuristic democracy in any compelling way.

I'd pick a small planet or Fed country and write whatever you want. I'd talk to Shaalira D'arc, who is very good at writing how democracy is facilitated with future tech.

I want to emphasize on the fact that there are no hints of an electoral college or a censitary suffrage of any sort in the gallente PF to my knowledge. Elections in the Federation seem to be mostly of equal/universal suffrage for every citizen.

The elections just after Empyrean Age had several different parties, the hawkish one (the military dude iirc), the ostrich one (the old squishy dude), the borderlands one (the Jin Mei female senator I don't remember the name), and the Liberal Party candidacy (Foiritain). And probably some others I don't remember well, maybe an U-nat one but not sure.

The funny thing is that in the PF we only know 3 major political parties, which are the Liberal progressive party (right wing, Foiritain), the Sociocrats (left wing, Mentas Blaque), and the U-Nats (extreme right), and maybe a fourth one which might be the minmatar labor party (the minmatar minorities). All the candidates in that election were from no know party and actually all the news never linked any of them to any political official party of any sort, Foiritain excepted. We did not even have a sociocrat candidacy iirc ?

That's just a guess but maybe a lot of the candidates are actually famous citizens or citizens possessing a lot of wits and charisma that are not always able to get in these positions through their respective political parties, but either by their already acquired position (senator, etc) or their celebrity. In our RL world democracies, it's not really often we see that kind of things.

[Seriphyn]

Those 'voter blocs' were not parties, which goes on to what I mean. Jacus Roden simply submitted his application to the Federal Administration and they went "Sure, you're a candidate". An ex-admiral submitted his application and he too got "Sure, you're a candidate". Same with Governor Aguard and a Senator. Aguard had no party and the Senator was formerly a party member and now an independent. It means anyone can become President if they want. Governor Aguard was a serious contender off of pure popular appeal. There was NO mention of any private backers. AFAIK, it's unheard of for an individual to become President without having ties to legislative parties.

Sorry Seriphyn, but the Fed isn't a perfect 'true democracy'. That doesn't exist, and cannot exist. Unless you have some fairytale way of suggesting how it could work so perfectly (in a grimdark universe, no less), I'm inclined to believe it is exactly how I described.

To expound on suggesting you misread what I said, I did NOT say the perfect democracy created the perfect society. What I did say is that the Federation is a superior democracy to any model we have RL, but it does NOT automatically mean it creates a perfect society, and in some ways allows tyranny to take place easier than current democratic models.

It's bulky, corrupted, sensationalized... but it still works. PF about the Federation does not at all suggest to me that it is free from any of those concepts.

Citation needed. AFAIK, the last two elections were not corrupt at all, outside of disenfranchising a region of space annexed by an enemy nation (effectively meaning they were disenfranchised anyway).

Also, the Caldari meritocracy doesn't work perfectly either... hence the whole reason Heth's rise even happened. It's okay to say that the Federation's ideals are so high and mighty, but it's pretty ridiculous to suggest it's actually that way.

So now that Heth is in power, the Caldari meritocracy is perfect?

Go back and read what I said, particularly...

Of course, what does effective democracy mean? Daily elections, referendums, crazy levels of accountability and scrutiny that ousts politicians for the slightest mishaps at a drop of a hat. And what does THAT mean? The chronic inability to act decisively when it is needed most. It is all over the references to the Gallente.

Some stuff from PF...

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Power_Politics_%28Chronicle%29

The democracy exercised by the Gallenteans is a very open one - it is common for major issues to go to a public vote instead of being solely decided by the senate or the President.

How common is that IRL? Does the US do it? No, so comparing them directly to the US's system doesn't work.

Founders of the only true democracy of New Eden

True democracy rings out when you consider that all Jacus Roden did was submit an application form and became President.

Does being a "true" democracy mean the Federation is perfect? No. My post NEVER said that. Even if it's not a true democracy, it's going to be far superior to anything we have IRL. Please do not read 'superior democracy' meaning 'superior empire'. The Amarr Empire slowed expansion after meeting the Gallente, and they wouldn't have done it if it was a corrupted democracy (thus making it easier to conquer).

[Alain Colcer]

actually there is plenty of information about political factions within the Fed and election mechanics, the problem resides on finding it buried on news snippets from 2005 onwards or something like that....

progressists, nationalists and some other were the 3 most prominent political parties....

try "eman autrech"+candidate on google, here an example

edit: found a nice lump here

[Alain Colcer]

Dude, I recognize a faction fanboi because I am one.

I used to think that the Amarr were the infallible, uncorrupted, The Only Best Faction There Is.

Then I stopped projecting my wishes and dreams into EVE and saw it for what it really was.

A medium for storytelling by the original creators of the backstory.

They made all the factions fallible and all of them corrupted.

Starting with the Jovians, going through the Big Four and all the pirate factions.

They all suck.

just wanted to say the above made me chuckle 

its probably the most realistic and truthful view of any faction.....and that makes it liberating

[Seriphyn]

Mentas Blaque was a lawyer in that arc and a former admiral in 'The Paths They Chose' /o\

Also, here's a thought. If a 'true democracy' means that power truly rests with the people, can you imagine how chaotic that will be? Like the Internet Incarnate. Sheer populism, the shunning of people with dissenting views, terrible legislation enacted by citizens who think they know what they're talking about in the mass noise of self-entitlement.

But still. A true democracy. The people are happy with it and don't perceive it as corrupt (which is relative) despite whatever the Fed can be assessed on. Again, we're taught from an early age that democracy is superior to all other models. Not true.

[orange]

Mentas Blaque was a lawyer in that arc and a former admiral in 'The Paths They Chose' /o\

Oh no! Can't have someone be both a lawyer and an experienced military veteran, that never happens!  Heavens forbid if they should run for President!