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The Lai Dai megacorporation has far ranging interests, is one of the foremost research companies in the cluster, and has strong links to the Khanid Kingdom?

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Author Topic: Strange question...  (Read 9233 times)

Casiella

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #30 on: 20 Jul 2012, 18:17 »

I'd rather see the ability for us to remake our clones entirely: in game mechanics terms, this means a racial/bloodline/gender respect, but for balance, you lose all your existing cybernetic upgrades (as they have already been implanted in your old clones).
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #31 on: 22 Jul 2012, 08:24 »

The problem with changing bloodlines is that according to old PF each and every bloodline had their own brain template.

...and you can't mess with your DNA, not with the clone tech of today...
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Rodj Blake

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #32 on: 23 Jul 2012, 10:13 »



If everyone can be perfect... I think comics with Judge Dredd had a good series about this.
The pendulum swung the other way, being ugly became cool, having warts got people hot, you got cosmetics for that and surgeries.
It was pretty hilarious.



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Anyanka Funk

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #33 on: 15 Nov 2014, 11:24 »

To answer the OP. I thought that before becoming a capsuleer there was an initial body scan to make a clone look like. If the subject does not have a hymen at the initial body scan then their clone would not have one in recreation of their body.

Also, I cannot find the "Addiction" chronicle. It sounds like an interesting read.

As for circumcision in New Eden cultures. I believe members of the Blood Raider Covenant would also practice ritual subincision, for the same reason that some cultures have done so, for ritual bloodletting.
« Last Edit: 15 Nov 2014, 11:41 by Anyanka Funk »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #34 on: 15 Nov 2014, 13:40 »

The PF is iffy on a lot of this. 

If the societies in New Eden have such a high level of DNA manipulation available on hand, then they world's your oyster when it comes to made-to-order genetics, and we certainly wouldn't be seeing or limited to the standard binary gender or generic physical templates that are the results of evolutionary biology. 

You could make your clones with 4 eyes, and 400 pounds with 6 breasts from the outset, as well as manipulating the corresponding genes for attraction and repulsion to include being extremely interested in 400 pound, 6 breasted people for procreation.

I imagine some clever amarr family scheming where a rival family gets into the dna-writing for a vowed enemy and has their next baked clone come out having an irresistible public fetish for matari boot leather or something *shrug*

As for circumcision and hymens, that just goes a bit too far down the RP rabbit hole for my personal internet spaceship interests :P
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Samira Kernher

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #35 on: 15 Nov 2014, 15:16 »

I imagine some clever amarr family scheming where a rival family gets into the dna-writing for a vowed enemy and has their next baked clone come out having an irresistible public fetish for matari boot leather or something *shrug*

Except that the Amarrian religion is against any genetic modifications. :P
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Mizhara

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #36 on: 15 Nov 2014, 15:30 »

I imagine some clever amarr family scheming where a rival family gets into the dna-writing for a vowed enemy and has their next baked clone come out having an irresistible public fetish for matari boot leather or something *shrug*

Except that the Amarrian religion is against any genetic modifications. :P

In public. What happens behind closed doors has in pretty much every religious society been an entirely different matter.
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Samira Kernher

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #37 on: 15 Nov 2014, 15:35 »

I imagine some clever amarr family scheming where a rival family gets into the dna-writing for a vowed enemy and has their next baked clone come out having an irresistible public fetish for matari boot leather or something *shrug*

Except that the Amarrian religion is against any genetic modifications. :P

In public. What happens behind closed doors has in pretty much every religious society been an entirely different matter.

Fixed that for you. Hypocracy is hardly unique to religious societies.
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Jace

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #38 on: 15 Nov 2014, 20:14 »

From a practical perspective, things like drastic genetic manipulation isn't all that feasible for roleplaying for the simple reason that it requires too much effort of those around you.

"Please, remember my character has six eyes, a transparent abdomen, and the strength of thirty Vulcans."

"What. No, you look like you look in your portrait because I can't be arsed to deal with all that nonsense."

It really isn't a PF thing. The Burning Life has plenty of mentions of baseliner modification and engineering, let alone what those as wealthy as capsuleers could achieve. But it's just too annoying to be around and handle in RP settings. It's the same reason many of us ignore android characters. We just can't be arsed.
« Last Edit: 15 Nov 2014, 20:16 by Jace »
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Silver Night

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #39 on: 15 Nov 2014, 20:46 »

There was in PF, at least originally, a prohibition cluster-wide against excessive genetic modification, because that was the road the Jovians went down and it essentially ended their civilization. I don't know if that has been wholly retconned or what, but that was the reason why there was (at least back in the day) no wide-spread heavy-duty genetic mods.

Jikahr

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #40 on: 16 Nov 2014, 12:49 »

I think if we were to go by actual real life biology, and your clone was grown from a stem cell, then yes your hymen would regrow with every new clone.

They are not hard to cut though. There is probably some kind of cup that fits over the genitals and the anus while we are in pod. I can't imagine we would excrete and urinate into the same pod goo we would be breathing and presumably ingesting. I would imagine this cup contains some sort of device to cut through the hymen.

In EVE clones of course, these 'clones' are made out of animal parts and corpses. So, whether or not your clone had a hymen would be dependent on whether the corpse they used had one or not.
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Samira Kernher

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #41 on: 16 Nov 2014, 13:28 »

In EVE clones of course, these 'clones' are made out of animal parts and corpses. So, whether or not your clone had a hymen would be dependent on whether the corpse they used had one or not.

They're made out of biomass, not corpses. Big difference. Biomass is a generic organic substance that can be grown into whatever is needed. It's closer to replicators in Star Trek, but obviously not quite so instantaneous. The biomass is used to grow the clone to precise specifications in a lab with all the parts desired. Whether this includes a hymen would be up to those specifications.
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Halcyon

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #42 on: 17 Nov 2014, 07:28 »

Not sure if it's been mentioned but when I read through source it mentioned people modifying their clones appearance and even changing gender...

Jikahr

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #43 on: 17 Nov 2014, 08:54 »

In EVE clones of course, these 'clones' are made out of animal parts and corpses. So, whether or not your clone had a hymen would be dependent on whether the corpse they used had one or not.

They're made out of biomass, not corpses. Big difference. Biomass is a generic organic substance that can be grown into whatever is needed. It's closer to replicators in Star Trek, but obviously not quite so instantaneous. The biomass is used to grow the clone to precise specifications in a lab with all the parts desired. Whether this includes a hymen would be up to those specifications.

Possibly, but why does this biomass need to be made from ground up corpses and animals? Even plant material. such as easy to grow algae, would do. Vegetarians are still able to digest plant based organic compounds, and transform them into human/ animal tissue. You don't need smelly, messy animal based materials as a nutrient source.

Also, a clone is one of your own cells which has been cultivated into a genetically identical copy of you. It would be like your son or daughter, that is physically identical to you. Those cells would replicate into a zygote, etc. until it became a fetus. That fetus would develop from any nutrient material. Animal corpses would be too complex to digest, and feeding human corpses to a clone fetus would mean that every capsuleer is a cannibal. Even assuming accelerated growth, there is simply no need to use animal proteins or human flesh as a nutrient.

It's not just the 'yuck' factor either. Animals have to be fed, housed, shipped, slaughtered and processed, then frozen. Human corpses? Even more problematic. On the other hand, Algae is omnipresent, even in microscopic spore form. Edible blue-green algae can be easily and cheaply cultivated, and used to make food, plastics, fuel, and so on. It's much easier to handle, cultivate, deliver, harvest, transport, etc. algae, than animal based proteins, yet it contains ALL of the same organic materials (carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, minerals, vitamins, etc.)

Wood is rare in space. There are no fields of grass in space stations. What would the animals eat? True, you could raise them on a planet, slaughter them all, and haul them up to a space station, but that's an awful lot of weight to send into orbit just to end up as a meal.

Seeds on the other hand, especially microscopic spores, weigh a lot less but provide the same nutrients as meat. Eating human corpses, which is a privilege available only to those that can afford higher grade clones, has the biological effect of causing sickness and insanity. An example of this would be 'Mad cow' disease in bovines, and 'kukuri' or 'laughing sickness' in humans.

How is it that the Blood Raiders can be considered as heretics for eating human flesh, when in fact each and every capsuleer has done so from their very first day of artificial conception? Is this the reason why so many capsuleers are insane? Is this why the Amarrian religion hates clones so much?

The whole thing is just full of holes. I grit my teeth when I hear that clones are made up of 'biomass' animal parts (low grade), or human corpses (high grade). It makes me think of the Tom and Jerry cartoons where Tom would be sliced in half with a knife, and he was just all full of red stuff inside.

It makes as much sense to me as Wile E. Coyote running off a cliff and not starting to fall until he looks down and realizes where he is.

I didn't really have as much problem with the story of Chancellor Karsoth as I do with the explanation of how cloning works in EVE. Cloning, as it is explained in EVE, is unscientific, illogical, impractical, and economically unsound.

I am especially concerned with how it is spreading scientific illiteracy to anyone who is already unfamiliar with the scientific process of cloning. You just don't jam a can full of Spam into a human shaped mold, add some handwavium, flip a switch and watch a clone pop out. There might be a good explanation for how our spaceships act more like submarines, but there is zero excuse for this ludicrous explanation for how the cloning procedure in EVE works.

It's bad enough that there are people trying to say that the planet was intelligently designed, that evolution is a hoax, and that the world is only 10,000 years old. Why make up a completely different explanation for what a clone is other than the way it really works in the real world, as we have evidence for today?
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Valadeus

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Re: Strange question...
« Reply #44 on: 17 Nov 2014, 09:24 »

It's bad enough that there are people trying to say that the planet was intelligently designed, that evolution is a hoax, and that the world is only 10,000 years old. Why make up a completely different explanation for what a clone is other than the way it really works in the real world, as we have evidence for today?

I understand your rant, but putting a jab against people who believe differently than you was completely unnecessary.

To your questions; I could be wrong but I think EVE's prime fiction regarding cloning was written before cloning was actually anything resembling scientifically possible in today's world. Rather than retcon the fiction, they've simply stuck with what was originally written.
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