Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Silas Vitalia on 08 Jan 2013, 08:58
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A few items up for debate or if you know of PF rulings please share!
1. Many of us keep a good number of baseliner troops for various RP purposes. Sometimes our own plots or interactions with other characters require some 'on the ground' action or 'in ship' fighting, etc. Mostly these take the form of marines, etc, but of course plenty of us have special lackeys (Cyberknights, or True Slave sorts of troops, etc).
How does DUST tech fit in here? Is anyone using DUST tech bound by CONCORD? If that's the case we likely couldn't keep our own personal caches of dusties for our own uses, right? Are dusties limited to combat only in facwar areas, etc? What's the PF here?
2 Capsuleers and DUST: Portable consciousness xfer out of the pod seems awfully enticing... Capsuleer immortals might be extremely interested in closing the loophole on their major vulnerability (dying outside of the pod is permadeath for that instance of the consciousness)... Do we get access? Are any of you going to go this route? What's the PF?
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I should add my inclination is the tech is likely quite overpowered for RP purposes. All of us having our own immortal little shock troops...
Guess we'll see where the PF goes and how many of them there are...
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At work and cant remember the exact PF, but I distinctly remember that capsuleer and Dust trooper tech are mutually exclusive. Have to be one or the other.
Ill try to find it later if you want.
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2 Capsuleers and DUST: Portable consciousness xfer out of the pod seems awfully enticing... Capsuleer immortals might be extremely interested in closing the loophole on their major vulnerability (dying outside of the pod is permadeath for that instance of the consciousness)... Do we get access? Are any of you going to go this route? What's the PF?
The way I RP it, even death in the pod is permadeath for that instance of consciousness. So it really wouldn't matter.
And yeah, I don't think the two technologies are remotely compatible.
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The way I RP it, even death in the pod is permadeath for that instance of consciousness. So it really wouldn't matter.
Really?
So every time you clone jump you are suiciding?
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The problem is likely that you would clone twice when you die inside the pod if you had both implants. Your pod would scan you out, and your sleeper tech would also clone you out... and having two clones at the same time is something CONCORD really hates. The Empires may not have the technology to 'turn off' the sleeper tech while inside the Capsule, thus preventing us from being allowed to use it.
As for having your own DUST troops... I think it's fairly legitimate to operate our own DUST troops. We can, after all, hire them to attack planetary installations. What's stopping us from hiring them to simply protect us?
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The way I RP it, even death in the pod is permadeath for that instance of consciousness. So it really wouldn't matter.
Really?
So every time you clone jump you are suiciding?
pod-jump, wherein you self destruct your pod for travel yes. I don't buy that thing about how when you clone jump they carefully destroy your body and pick the implants out, because if that's the case, they should be able to not reintegrate the implants so we can resell them or somesuch.
But yeah, my character's kind of a nihilist, and is casually suicidal a lot of the time.
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As for having your own DUST troops... I think it's fairly legitimate to operate our own DUST troops. We can, after all, hire them to attack planetary installations. What's stopping us from hiring them to simply protect us?
I don't know. Feels a bit funny; DUST troops are important enough to be PCs. Nobody I know is going around claiming to have a personal contingent of NPC capsuleers to follow them around either.
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As for having your own DUST troops... I think it's fairly legitimate to operate our own DUST troops. We can, after all, hire them to attack planetary installations. What's stopping us from hiring them to simply protect us?
I don't know. Feels a bit funny; DUST troops are important enough to be PCs. Nobody I know is going around claiming to have a personal contingent of NPC capsuleers to follow them around either.
Exactly, we don't go around claiming to have capsuleer bodyguards as those are generally player characters
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As for having your own DUST troops... I think it's fairly legitimate to operate our own DUST troops. We can, after all, hire them to attack planetary installations. What's stopping us from hiring them to simply protect us?
I don't know. Feels a bit funny; DUST troops are important enough to be PCs. Nobody I know is going around claiming to have a personal contingent of NPC capsuleers to follow them around either.
Exactly, we don't go around claiming to have capsuleer bodyguards as those are generally player characters
Just because we don't do it with Capsuleers does not mean it can't be done. Capsuleer servants are of limited utility to most of us anyways, being a bit redundant. A DUST soldier would not be.
What is stopping us from creating our own DUST soldiers, or an entire DUST soldier corporation, and dedicating them to our capsuleer's protection?
I'll be frank. I intend to do this with one of my NPCs, and he will eventually be reflected inside Dust 514 once I get a Ps3 (or the game releases on PC). If people have a problem with it, tough tinsel. It's not like any of you were planning to make a serious go at my character's life anyways, so what does it matter if she has a private DUST bodyguard?
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What is stopping us from creating our own DUST soldiers, or an entire DUST soldier corporation, and dedicating them to our capsuleer's protection?
The same thing that, say, keeps me from claiming Anshar Incorporated is a mighty corporation capable of fielding large fleets of capsuleers; the need to actually produce that fleet of capsuleers when the chips are down. DUSTies are PC entities that will have significant pull in the game world. I expect that making them up by the dozen will not go over well with the RP public at large.
I'll be frank. I intend to do this with one of my NPCs, and he will eventually be reflected inside Dust 514 once I get a Ps3 (or the game releases on PC). If people have a problem with it, tough tinsel. It's not like any of you were planning to make a serious go at my character's life anyways, so what does it matter if she has a private DUST bodyguard?
Well, one guy's a lot more legit, especially if he is / will be one of your own alts.
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Right, if they are PCs I'd want to see them represented in game if claimed, just like I can only claim as many capsuleers in my corp as is verifiable for the most part.
My other question is more with the tech and CONCORD restrictions.
Do they control the respawning? If a DUST soldier opens fire in the middle of a street on a highsec planet does CONCORD revoke their respawn?
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Because if CONCORD does NOT regulate this, you better believe we'd all have a few hundred of these guys strapped with suicide bombs on a conveyer belt of respawn attacking highsec interests.
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As far as I understand, DUST cloning is much shorter range and is provided by an on-site 'respawn' location. Either an APC with vats inside, like in the book, or on an overhead War Barge, I guess. So, It's not quite as strongly regulated as Capsuleers, I would assume.
If you can get that APC near said city, you can still respawn. But that's my guess.
What is stopping us from creating our own DUST soldiers, or an entire DUST soldier corporation, and dedicating them to our capsuleer's protection?
The same thing that, say, keeps me from claiming Anshar Incorporated is a mighty corporation capable of fielding large fleets of capsuleers; the need to actually produce that fleet of capsuleers when the chips are down. DUSTies are PC entities that will have significant pull in the game world. I expect that making them up by the dozen will not go over well with the RP public at large.
Ahh, see I was misunderstanding. I thought you were saying we can't dedicate DUST soldiers to our Capsuleers, because there aren't any Capsuleers dedicated to protecting other Capsuleers. Or something.
I was not justifying creating a phantom DUST corp that "attacks your captains quarters, hitting for 63,254 damage." that would be silly.
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It's a good conversation, I'm just seeing where people are at before we get some see-re-us 'urdoingitwrong' from left and right when so and so claims to have 100 dust soldiers doing their every bidding, etc. and so and so says 'no way not possible!'
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A good point to keep in mind is that while they are probably OP for player-NPC use by the hundreds, CCP has made it quite clear that these guys will initially start out as little more than tools for our bidding. I think it would be a mistake to assume that every DUST soldier would need a gameworld represented alt to be legitimate. NPC Dust soldiers exist, just as NPC capsuleers do.
But like I mentioned before, the reason we don't see NPC capsuleers show up in our RP a lot is because they are of very limited utility to us. Everything they do, we can do ourselves. So, you will likely see a lot more NPC DUSTies in EVE RP... because they are very very useful to our kind. I would not begrudge a DUST player roleplaying having an NPC Capsuleer supporting him with cash (perhaps to explain how he got all his ISK he bought with cash).
I do not think we should be restricted to requiring an alt in a game we may not have access to (PS3s are still very expensive), but rather could make use of a sliding scale. Is it okay to have a team of DUST soldiers for your private RP? Yes. Is it okay to wield a phantom DUST corp against other EVE roleplayers? Not really, no.
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IRED has a lot of cash at their disposal, I don't think that would be a problem.
Interesting topic though, I'm wondering what sorts of plots we will be seing
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I think I'd prefer someone actually putting in the time, effort, and ISK to organize say, a 100 man DUST corp at the beck and call of their capsuleer overlord which would actually have a tangible, in-space impact on any RP created than someone saying, "I have a full mechanized division of DUST troopers available to me because I'm a super awesome capsuleer," that doesn't actually exist. It sort of ends up in that area of irrelevancy where the fiction doesn't match "reality" because then the question will have to be asked: Why don't you deploy that supposed DUST Division then?
To which the response just ends up as silence.
Fluff fiction and soft RP can be great, but not at the expense of just being emperor's with no clothes.
Anyway, if you really want to have that DUST Trooper bodyguard prestige item, it only takes a few minutes to roll a DUST alt.
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Anyway, if you really want to have that DUST Trooper bodyguard prestige item, it only takes a few minutes to roll a DUST alt.
Assuming you own a Playstation 3.
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Probably repeating a few of these points from earlier:
- DUST implants and capsuleer implants are mutually exclusive. You are either a capsuleer, or you are a DUST soldier. Not both.
- DUST and EVE players will be sharing the same namespace in the Tranquility database. This means that you will not be seeing any DUST characters named "Morwen Lagann" or "Seriphyn Inhonores" or "Katrina Oniseki" or so on. Likewise, if someone in DUST takes the name "Toro Kaneda" (one of the aforementioned bodyguards belonging to Kat), you will not see that name attached to an EVE character. As a result, if you want to RP with that character, you're either going to have to do it from DUST (hooray for kb/mouse support?), or create a secondary character for them in EVE with a similar name (and god forbid you ever undock and lose a ship).
Otherwise, I'm kinda in Gesa's camp - shooting at each other (among other means of interaction) is part of the game, and having a set of DUST soldiers at your command really should translate to actually having DUST characters available to do tangible things for you ingame that can be interfered with by other people. "Yes, and" is a lot more fun to work with than "No". :)
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Why are both mutually exclusive btw?
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"Because CCP said so," more or less.
Whether that means lore being bent to fit gameplay (shared namespace) or not is anyone's guess but there's also the fact that the two use entirely different cloning/reanimation systems. DUST cloning is short-range; capsuleer cloning is not.
And someone else touched on the "god forbid you have both and get podded, what happens then" scenario already.
Then there's the possible issue of 'shared space' in the body with the implants. We know that the implants used by DUST soldiers are basically a chunk added directly onto the brainstem - but we know very little about how capsuleer implants are installed, and where exactly they are in the body aside from on the spinal column. It's very possible than one would interfere with the other either in function or location.
I can think of more reasons why they are or would be mutually exclusive, but none that don't go "OMG YES MARY SUE TIME" for why they wouldn't.
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Personally I think it will be great for EVE RP to have DUST troopers around. Will focus on character concepts and actions above and beyond "Space Marine" type tropes.
Capsuleers are the thinkers, the power-brokers, the mega-wealthy, gods of war and trade and science. Basically, way more Sovereign than Shepard.
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Personally I think it will be great for EVE RP to have DUST troopers around. Will focus on character concepts and actions above and beyond "Space Marine" type tropes.
Capsuleers are the thinkers, the power-brokers, the mega-wealthy, gods of war and trade and science. Basically, way more Sovereign than Shepard.
I was thinking more along the lines of The Illusive Man.
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My character is Shepard-like but is capsuleer :(
Wonder if there is a possibility of a one-time conversion operation.
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My character is Shepard-like but is capsuleer :(
Wonder if there is a possibility of a one-time conversion operation.
Yes. It's called biomass your eve character and then create dust character with same name.
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My character is Shepard-like but is capsuleer :(
Wonder if there is a possibility of a one-time conversion operation.
Yes. It's called biomass your eve character and then create dust character with same name.
This. But even then, I imagine the genetic mutual-exclusivity would make it a big wall banger.
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Not to mention EXTREMELY wasteful.
Must your DUST guy have to be the same as your EVE toon? Because that would be hard to explain due to PF fluff, and as mentioned, a great waste to EVE on the Capsuleer stage. There is a lot of progress, skills and most importantly reputation and name-recognition you will be flushing down for this.
Better and simpler IMHO, would be to have your DUST guy work directly for, and with the backing of, Seriphyn. Might even have been a family member (if it was not for the condition of your family) or a friend of the family so that your EVE Capsuleer and DUST toons know each other directly and face-to-face.
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I was going to suggest biomassing, but then thought better not. Since that's suggested, anyway, then I'll note my other suggestion: Convince a GM that your name is obscene, and once you're renamed to "(empire) Citizen date()", make a DUST toon. And then ask the original character to be renamed as something more sensible.
And no, this would not make any sense fiction-wise. I know multiple player characters are supposed to be ex-marines/spec ops/etc., but DUST soldiers, I think, are yet another type.
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Better and simpler IMHO, would be to have your DUST guy work directly for, and with the backing of, Seriphyn. Might even have been a family member (if it was not for the condition of your family) or a friend of the family so that your EVE Capsuleer and DUST toons know each other directly and face-to-face.
This.
Seriphyn can be the Anderson to your DUST character's Shepard, I think. Rather than Seriphyn being the Shepard.
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I think all of you lot have seen at least the first Starship Troopers movie.
Did you notice how ridiculous and feeble the flyboys seemed to be even when holding the same guns that the groundpounders used?
Did you notice how impotent they were?
Compared to the ease and efficiency they had when they were flying their ships that was truly enviable and special.
Horses for courses.
Respect your character and don't use him/her to massage your ego.
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Decisions, decisons....there is ofc the question if dust has the same retention factor as eve
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How customisable are the DUST clones facial features, etc? The idea I got from Templar One and some of the DUST chronicles that were released last year was 'not very' - basically that the ISK all goes into DUST clone function and not aesthetics. My take on it was that DUST clones are supposed to be much more expendable than capsuleer clones for a number of reasons. Fitting with this, the only screenies I've ever seen of them have the face covered by masks/headgear/etc. It might sound trivial, but having a bloated pile of putty for your special DUST NPC might take the shine off the RP.
Also, anyone got source on the claim that CCP is initially portraying capsuleers as above and beyond the DUST soldiers? I can't recall anything like this, unless it was a reference to Templar One which basically details the stage from prototype to first real test of the technology.
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Dust sometimes looks like a Halo spin off.
Maybe master chief helmets are mandatory.
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Kaztropolis is vulnerable to DUST things. I do not own a PS3, am unlikely to either. Were someone to claim to have had some DUST people invade Kaztropol, I would be unable to oppose this, or even to claim it as false.
I'm not sure how viable people's claims to planetary estates ownership can be now.
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Kaztropolis is vulnerable to DUST things. I do not own a PS3, am unlikely to either. Were someone to claim to have had some DUST people invade Kaztropol, I would be unable to oppose this, or even to claim it as false.
I'm not sure how viable people's claims to planetary estates ownership can be now.
One need only finish waiting until the game bombs and the servers run empty and desolate.
Shouldn't be long.
8)
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Not all planets will be battlegrounds in this sense, iirc. If your holdings are in lowsec or nullsec, you might theoretically have problems, but in highsec, not too likely.
At the moment, I think only FW space is affected.
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Celeste has a whole small cadre of lackeys who could be candidates for running off and going DUST bunny ... or getting shanghaied and conscripted into service. In either case, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want anything to do with her or her family.