Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Silas Vitalia on 09 Feb 2012, 13:09
-
Spinning off some of Publius' comments on the 'templar one' thread:
What happened to the broad strokes of the Gallente faction as more 'cyberpunk?' I'm referring to the first few years of EVE, where the imagery associated with the Gallente was extremely slick, Neo-Tokyo, Gibson-ian 'future' aesthetic. (see all the gallente ship designs as well)
My Gallente PF is of course quite weak, but from an outsider perspective it seems the faction has morphed quite a bit since those days. We see much more 'federal' and 'senate' sorts of focus these days.
Can any of the Gallente RPers share thoughts on this?
It seems the other factions haven't strayed nearly as far with their general 'feel' from the early days. Although the State imagery seems far far less focused on high powered mega-corp sorts of things.
-
Grittiness in late 2000s media is what happened, that's what.
But yeah, I'm not very clued in on classical sci-fi (books etc.), but Gallente do have a very "technology integrated with lifestyle" feel (like domestic drones), versus the Caldari who have it integrated into military weapons and industrial systems instead.
But remember, EVE is real. Your EVE avatar is YOU, so We Will Make EVE Fashion As Close to Real Fashion As Possible.
I don't know if I'm getting the definition of cyberpunk right, though.
-
Gallente used to have plastic dresses with holo projectory doodad things on them and stuff.
-
Spinning off some of Publius' comments on the 'templar one' thread:
What happened to the broad strokes of the Gallente faction as more 'cyberpunk?' I'm referring to the first few years of EVE, where the imagery associated with the Gallente was extremely slick, Neo-Tokyo, Gibson-ian 'future' aesthetic. (see all the gallente ship designs as well)
My Gallente PF is of course quite weak, but from an outsider perspective it seems the faction has morphed quite a bit since those days. We see much more 'federal' and 'senate' sorts of focus these days.
Can any of the Gallente RPers share thoughts on this?
It seems the other factions haven't strayed nearly as far with their general 'feel' from the early days. Although the State imagery seems far far less focused on high powered mega-corp sorts of things.
I have actually the same feeling....
But yeah, I'm not very clued in on classical sci-fi (books etc.), but Gallente do have a very "technology integrated with lifestyle" feel (like domestic drones), versus the Caldari who have it integrated into military weapons and industrial systems instead.
I will try to make than movie exampels.... ehm....
- The Gallente Fed was for me in the beginning the "cyberpunk" faction.... but it was just a general feeling... I had not any backround infos... just the old intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T84nrp08MWo&list=PLF614A7A6461E61E1&index=24&feature=plpp_video); and I havent read so many chrons on the start. But generaly I had the same feeling like Silas: A mix out Neo-Tokyo, Blade Runner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_saUN4j7Gw), Strange Days (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epJKjZHXzYU&feature=related) and Nar Shaddaa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9wrh3lJCZM).
- The Caldari on the other hand were in my book... the "sci fi technokraten"... ehm there isnt really a translation... it is the style mix out Equilibrium (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlqpfV9marA) (for the corp part) and Pandorum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMEhkTxs3_E) (for the military part), with small part of Kraftwerk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltuRUFTtp7A&feature=related).
- The Amarr of course "Sci fi fantasy" plus "epic fantasy" (from Star Wars over A Game of Thrones to A Clash of Kings), with a horror elment in the Blood Raiders and Sani Sabik (http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/05/19/eve-lore-blends-sci-fi-with-horror-in-blood-raiders-pirate-facti/).
- The Minmatar... I dont know... It looks like the scum in one of the Star Wars bars. :P
- The Khanid Kingdom... was and is for me a mix out "Sci fi fantasy" and "Sci fi technokraten". It means you have some cold steel elements... from the caldari site... like colors are more in a gunmetal silver-grey (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/images/d/d3/Khanid_Kingdom_%28transparent%29.png) and the mod is more in a dark blue (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Khanid_Kingdom). Form the amarr site comes the aesthetics the round forms with a mix out Art Déco and Star Wars the Hutt-Faction (http://images.wikia.com/swtor/images/0/04/Huttpalacelarge.jpg). The last part can be seen even in this pic (http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=16-06-08) (the character of the old Chamberlain and than the pic and you have a nice fat hutt:P )
This was my first impression... after a week or two in the game it gets a little waterdown.
By the way.. can some write for me a hate comment on the EVE Forum :lol: I havent a activ account... it is just two little things here (http://www.eveonline.com/universe/the-world-of-eve/#amarr-empire-tab) and here (http://www.eveonline.com/creations/screenshots/3202/khanid-prime-khanid-region). I would like a change from "autonomous realm" to "independent realm", thats it; but dont forget me the hate :P.
-
Gallente used to have plastic dresses with holo projectory doodad things on them and stuff.
I already forgot it... that stuff looked awesome.... it was so cyperpunk... plus the house backround (this silver, glas monster, which looks like a mix out factory and office), this was my old gallente "jita trade price check bitch". And always when I loged in.. I though why I dont play this guy.... today it looks like a abercrombie shopper :mad:
-
A cyberpunk feel for the Gallente may be part of the aesthetic, but a cyberpunk culture the Gallente are not (at least portrayed as such from my experience).
In the cyberpunk genre there usually is monolithic entities (corporate/criminal/governmental) that actively oppress the subcultures that search for freedom within the confines of the society that survive by living on the cutting edge. Smugglers, hackers, strange personality cults, its the Frontier of the Wild West brought into a dystopian future. Where True Grit and Attitude means more than creds.
There are clear aspects of the Gallentean society that hint at this possibility, the party line of the culture of 'freedom' where the 'freedom' is expressed only in the culturally accepted way. Clear controlling of the masses with media and funneling their interests into trivial ways of expressing themselves through consumerism.
There is the downtrodden who live in an economic prison who find that only way to keep sane is to be brainwashed by the media and be turned into something that does not have a personal identity anymore, this aspect is probably strongest among the Minmatar immigrants.
I could go on with the examples on how a player could interpret the Gallente culture as cyberpunk, to me, it has always seemed that the roleplayers that portrayed the Gallentean culture rejected this.
The frivolous 'feelgood' aspects of the media have been in the spotlight of the IGS (Glamour Bunnies for example).
The party line of the culture of 'freedom' has been the dominant view expressed by those criticizing other cultures.
The corruption of the whole Gallentean system has been swept under the rug through the actions of the roleplayers and the CCP.
Personally I would welcome a new aspect to the Gallentean RP.
But you would need bad guys for it.
And it seems like even the Amarrians do not want to be bad.
/end blergh.
-
A cyberpunk feel for the Gallente may be part of the aesthetic, but a cyberpunk culture the Gallente are not (at least portrayed as such from my experience).
In the cyberpunk genre there usually is monolithic entities (corporate/criminal/governmental) that actively oppress the subcultures that search for freedom within the confines of the society that survive by living on the cutting edge. Smugglers, hackers, strange personality cults, its the Frontier of the Wild West brought into a dystopian future. Where True Grit and Attitude means more than creds.
There are clear aspects of the Gallentean society that hint at this possibility, the party line of the culture of 'freedom' where the 'freedom' is expressed only in the culturally accepted way. Clear controlling of the masses with media and funneling their interests into trivial ways of expressing themselves through consumerism.
There is the downtrodden who live in an economic prison who find that only way to keep sane is to be brainwashed by the media and be turned into something that does not have a personal identity anymore, this aspect is probably strongest among the Minmatar immigrants.
I could go on with the examples on how a player could interpret the Gallente culture as cyberpunk, to me, it has always seemed that the roleplayers that portrayed the Gallentean culture rejected this.
The frivolous 'feelgood' aspects of the media have been in the spotlight of the IGS (Glamour Bunnies for example).
The party line of the culture of 'freedom' has been the dominant view expressed by those criticizing other cultures.
The corruption of the whole Gallentean system has been swept under the rug through the actions of the roleplayers and the CCP.
Personally I would welcome a new aspect to the Gallentean RP.
But you would need bad guys for it.
And it seems like even the Amarrians do not want to be bad.
/end blergh.
Sure you are right... ehm it was just my first impression about the differnt factions... and Im a guy which looks first, than try to dig deeper :P But of course you right. They where even as I started so 2009ish... no more cyberpunk... it was just my first impression, thats why I have style the char this way.
About "Amarrians do not want to be bad." I have not the feeling that it is actually a good or bad thing (even when it is always the story-plot, at least in the Novels). But I think, I know what you mean.... "But you would need bad guys for it." something bad in the Faction or Roleplayer which are bad, but in their own traditions and code of conduct etc... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglass_North#Institutions_.281991.29). If this is the case I can show one :P here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63804&find=unread). I for myself has plan to get a story done (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Publius_Valerius_%28Character%29)... it is time... something like Strange Days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Days_%28film%29) but with Transcranial Microcontrollers (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Transcranial_Microcontrollers) and a little more politics, to be precisely, with a network of intrigues in the nobles of the Empire and Kingdom... etc... I hope I will start some day :P
-
Mm, as per Lallara said, I think aesthetic over politics.
Though I assume there are plenty of places in the Fed planetside where the local government is weak, and the corporations are stronger.
-
And it seems like even the Amarrians do not want to be bad.
We like being bad, but we like balance.
Every piece of new PF, news, novel, and nearly every single post on the IGS (that isn't from one of us) is obsessed over the utter sick putridity of Amarr.
Every single one.
-
Maybe it's because I'm freaking ancient1, but when I looked at the old art for the Gallente, I didn't think 'influenced by cyberpunk', I thought 'influenced by 2001, Space:1999, Logan's Run, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century and Aeon Flux'.
1To hear it suggested that cyberpunk is 'classic sci-fi' makes me twitch: 'cause Neuromancer dropped when I was a freshman in high school, y'all.
-
And it seems like even the Amarrians do not want to be bad.
We like being bad, but we like balance.
Every piece of new PF, news, novel, and nearly every single post on the IGS (that isn't from one of us) is obsessed over the utter sick putridity of Amarr.
Every single one.
I feel you.
Just read the flawless, new introduction to the Caldari State (http://www.eveonline.com/universe/the-world-of-eve/#caldari-state-tab), as well as the Minmatar Republic. No mention of societal flaws such as, I dunno, in the Caldari's case, authoritarianism, and maybe leaving millions of those who fell off the bottom rung of the corporate ladder (as well as their children) to become nothing.
While the Caldari are subtitled as "Megacorporations and Militarism" (by far a very popular attraction to new players), the Gallente get stuck with "The Paradox of Democracy", because yakno...democracy is the worst form of government because of human nature and what have you (no mention of sectarianism in the Minmatar Republic)...the good second-half of that intro is pretty negative. Gosh-darned Gallente don't know how to behave.
But that's just me q_qing again.
-
All of those seem to be written as if it was 2008...
-
Maybe it's because I'm freaking ancient1, but when I looked at the old art for the Gallente, I didn't think 'influenced by cyberpunk', I thought 'influenced by 2001, Space:1999, Logan's Run, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century and Aeon Flux'.
This. I've tended to think of it as bold, clean, Courrèges-influenced space fashion, but some of your examples there are even better. It seems to have been "the look" of space fiction through the late '60s and '70s.
Ridley Scott's "dirty spaceship" approach in Alien in 1979 brought a huge and influential aesthetic change. Then he made the neo-noir Bladerunner, and Gibson and Sterling et al brought us more of the hi-tech/low-life blend that became labelled cyberpunk, and the previous aesthetic seemed... very well-lit and tidy in comparison.
1To hear it suggested that cyberpunk is 'classic sci-fi' makes me twitch: 'cause Neuromancer dropped when I was a freshman in high school, y'all.
That sounds about right. :)
-
All of those seem to be written as if it was 2008...
Before the May 2009 Matari-weren't-all-enslaved retcon, anyway:
These raids ended when the Amarr Empire, acting on the religious imperative of their Reclaiming doctrine, launched a full-scale invasion and conquered all the Minmatar worlds, enslaving the entire race in the process.
-
Moving off from the slight derail for a moment - yes, I think Gallente definitely used to have a much more cyberpunk-ey feel to them.
I mean, let's look at the Crystal Boulevard even - they needed a way to protect their home base. This could have been written as the Gallente harnessing national popularity to build some complex layered defense out of unobtanium, with advanced self-repair droes and lots of technical info, etc etc...
Instead, CCP had them build several city blocks out of solid diamond.
Why? Not because it is the single most effective defense ever described in science fiction, but also because there's an undeniably shiny-cool-future feel to having your city made out of solid diamond. It's not just practical democracy, it's hedonistic, it-looks-cool-let's-do-it, near-future aesthetic design.
-
When I think of Cyberpunk in EVE, I actually think of the State, specifically the Guristas.
Outcasts from a grinding, domineering, and cutthroat state utterly controlled by corporations, a large and sharp gulf between the rich and the poor, the emphasis on technology, all of it, it seemed like the State could serve as a solid backdrop for a lot of Gibsony themes.
-
Oh, certainly - like was said, the Gallente aren't neccesarily the best examples of Cyberpunk themes in their PF. However, aesthetically, they did seem to have something of cyberpunkish thing going for a while.
-
Serpentis?
Whenever Serpentis have had a cameo in my story arcs, it typically means something batshit is about to happen. The sort of people who'll make something freaky just because they can, and will then sell it or use it to the best of their ability. It's not quite cyberpunk in the classic sense, but it's not a million miles off.
Of course, actual Serp RPers might disagree :P
-
All of eve had a cyberpunk aesthetic for a while.
-
Maybe it's because I'm freaking ancient1, but when I looked at the old art for the Gallente, I didn't think 'influenced by cyberpunk', I thought 'influenced by 2001, Space:1999, Logan's Run, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century and Aeon Flux'.
1To hear it suggested that cyberpunk is 'classic sci-fi' makes me twitch: 'cause Neuromancer dropped when I was a freshman in high school, y'all.
Logan's Run, Space:1999, to many straight linies; the clothes arent funky enough (http://bestgamewallpapers.com/files/eve-online/gallente.jpg) (but how ever with the current clothing option they come closer again)
Aeon Flux and Buck Rogers in the 25th Century; I can see both of them... ehm I would say they are closer to the mood.
Now to 2001. Nothing comes closes to 2001. Nothing... end of discussion for me. :P
P.S. And yes; you are to old :P
P.P.S Can someone write for me a hate comment on the EVE Forum :lol: I havent a activ account... it is just two little things here (http://www.eveonline.com/universe/the-world-of-eve/#amarr-empire-tab) and here (http://www.eveonline.com/creations/screenshots/3202/khanid-prime-khanid-region). I would like a change from "autonomous realm" to "independent realm", and "together with satellite states the Ammatar Mandate and Khanid Kingdom," to "together with satellite states the Ammatar Mandate and the independent Khanid Kingdom," thats it; but dont forget me the hate :P. Maybe add the comment here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68100&find=unread).
When I think of Cyberpunk in EVE, I actually think of the State, specifically the Guristas.
Outcasts from a grinding, domineering, and cutthroat state utterly controlled by corporations, a large and sharp gulf between the rich and the poor, the emphasis on technology, all of it, it seemed like the State could serve as a solid backdrop for a lot of Gibsony themes.
So true... from the story outline, it would fit nicely, like Lallara said: "In the cyberpunk genre there usually is monolithic entities (corporate/criminal/governmental) that actively oppress the subcultures that search for freedom within the confines of the society that survive by living on the cutting edge." But aesthetics of the old character creator hasnt give that mood for the Caldari, and like I said... It was just a general feeling on the first sight, with minium amount of information. With that on the backround their where the "Sci fi technokraten".
-
Firstly, it's not true that cyberpunk themes are not being explored in the Federal context, there are for instance bounty hunters, self-acclaimed police forces and many others who are doing interesting role-playing out there.
I see the Gallente PF pretty much the same way as Lallara. It's all about corruption, manipulation, secret deals and misdirection. One aspect of how Caldari State's cyberpunk/capitalism might differ from that of the Federation, is how much things seem to be out of control. For me the State feels the ultimate pinnacle of state monopoly, perhaps with flavors from Half-life 2, 1984 or Gattaca/In Time. I tend to associate works like Deus ex, Brave New World or Blade Runner more strongly with the Federation.
Besides player preferences, there are practical considerations that drive people away from darker themes. When you start a new character or project, you are literally easy to shoot down and the community will ignore you because you are most likely doing something 'wrong' and it is not clear whether you will be worth of anyone's time. Easiest way to get rid of these obstacles is to be nice, amusing and stand for nothing. I don't think there's much that can be done to address this issue, it's just the way it works.
-
Hmm, I'd always felt the State was cyberpunk, and the Gallente were biopunk - Poteque and most other cloning megas come from there, organic-looking ships, rogue drones having biological bits sometimes, "cellular immolation used by the Federation to put to death the traitor Eturrer" (from Evelopedia), etc.
-
Good points everyone.
I think my claim was entirely limited to the 'visual' realms. The Gallente PF just seems to be of a very different flavor than the first few years of 'artwork' we saw related to the Federation.
That's given me an idea though, I think we should have a capsuleer detective agency ;) Gallente-run capsuleer private investigators. Neo-future noire! :) Now to see about getting an appropriate hat and jacket for the character creation screen...
http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/1920x1200/2011/Games_Detective_LA_Noire_029933_.jpg
:P
-
There have been several times when my PC could have used a PI. I approve of that idea.
-
Good points everyone.
I think my claim was entirely limited to the 'visual' realms. The Gallente PF just seems to be of a very different flavor than the first few years of 'artwork' we saw related to the Federation.
That's given me an idea though, I think we should have a capsuleer detective agency ;) Gallente-run capsuleer private investigators. Neo-future noire! :) Now to see about getting an appropriate hat and jacket for the character creation screen...
http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/1920x1200/2011/Games_Detective_LA_Noire_029933_.jpg
:P
From me too I mean... from the 'visual' and 'aesthetic' of the old character creator (http://www.danielschurter.net/mainsite/wp-content/gallery/eve-online/laaylaa.jpg).
About the noire style detective.... looks nice....I like it^^...
Besides player preferences, there are practical considerations that drive people away from darker themes. When you start a new character or project, you are literally easy to shoot down and the community will ignore you because you are most likely doing something 'wrong' and it is not clear whether you will be worth of anyone's time. Easiest way to get rid of these obstacles is to be nice, amusing and stand for nothing. I don't think there's much that can be done to address this issue, it's just the way it works.
I think one way out is: You can be nice and dont mean it :P
Silas can you or someone else write for me a hate comment on the EVE Forum :lol: I havent a activ account... it is just two little things here (http://www.eveonline.com/universe/the-world-of-eve/#amarr-empire-tab) and here (http://www.eveonline.com/creations/screenshots/3202/khanid-prime-khanid-region). I would like a change from "autonomous realm" to "independent realm", and "together with satellite states the Ammatar Mandate and Khanid Kingdom," to "together with satellite state the Ammatar Mandate and the independent Khanid Kingdom," thats it; but dont forget me the hate :P. Maybe add the comment here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68100&find=unread). It would be really nice.
-
Publius, if CCP says its an autonomous realm, it's an autonomous realm.
-
Publius, if CCP says its an autonomous realm, it's an autonomous realm.
I know.... I know they are with their...B-Sh*t... worst than any army... I know... they will before change the main page.... change anything else.... what mean... since the change.. my Charakter is for shit. :cry:...And it isnt even like a little baseling problem... because before Abraxes we had no infos.. thast why I wasnt going to far with my char....
But that the Kingdom is independent was canon before:
"While acknowledging the rightful reign of Jamyl I as Empress of Amarr, the Khanid Kingdom will remain an independent nation." khanid kingdom granted privy council seat (http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3084&tid=4)
or implied here:
amarr empress announces massive investment package for caldari state (http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2658)
The Khanid Kingdom (Chronicle) (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Khanid_Kingdom_%28Chronicle%29)
So thats I have style my char this way... so annoying... plz add least: Someone write a comment... so that it is in the forum....
It would be really nice..
-Fly save PV
-
Good points everyone.
I think my claim was entirely limited to the 'visual' realms. The Gallente PF just seems to be of a very different flavor than the first few years of 'artwork' we saw related to the Federation.
That's given me an idea though, I think we should have a capsuleer detective agency ;) Gallente-run capsuleer private investigators. Neo-future noire! :) Now to see about getting an appropriate hat and jacket for the character creation screen...
http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/1920x1200/2011/Games_Detective_LA_Noire_029933_.jpg (http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/1920x1200/2011/Games_Detective_LA_Noire_029933_.jpg)
:P
Psst.
*points at Silver's Syndicate Files* http://silvernight-fiction.blogspot.com/ (http://silvernight-fiction.blogspot.com/)
-
I know this prolly isn't what you meant but has anyone here played the pen and paper RPG Cyberpunk by R.Talsorian? It's a great system. I am going to run a campaign using those rules set in the Federation once my current DnD game finishes.
-
I know this prolly isn't what you meant but has anyone here played the pen and paper RPG Cyberpunk by R.Talsorian? It's a great system. I am going to run a campaign using those rules set in the Federation once my current DnD game finishes.
I have, quite a bit.
Love the gameworld and the source books. Amazingly well done, very intricate.
Loathed the system. At a certain level, your character would do one of two things, succeed or utter critical failure. That said, their empathy/cyberpsychosis rules were brilliant.
My favorite RPG campaign of all time was a Cyberpink campaign actually, playing cops of all things.
-
I know this prolly isn't what you meant but has anyone here played the pen and paper RPG Cyberpunk by R.Talsorian? It's a great system. I am going to run a campaign using those rules set in the Federation once my current DnD game finishes.
I've played in it & run it. As a matter of fact I'm getting ready to run a game right now. A Nomad construction pack on the outskirts of Night City as the 4th corporate war starts to get underway.
I thought the "UK turns into a military dictatorship" bit of the original Euro sourcepack was a bit off. But they made a good recovery by hiring locals to write "Rough Guide to The UK." Best Cyberpunk Regional guide Ever!
-
Isn't that funny? I loved the clarity of the rules - except for netrunning, that was incomprehensible.
That being said, my group still plays heavily modified 2nd Ed DnD with a massive emphasis on RP, so we're a little odd.
-
Isn't that funny? I loved the clarity of the rules - except for netrunning, that was incomprehensible.
That being said, my group still plays heavily modified 2nd Ed DnD with a massive emphasis on RP, so we're a little odd.
Netrunning is the one thing I did a major overhaul of.
In my games the runner writes a one-off icebreaker to perform the task they want it to do. The difficulty is based on how secure the target is & how complex or difficult a task is desired. Then the runner makes a straight contest of stat+interface+program strength vs the target system's defences. That also made it possible for the rest of the team to get involved in the intelligence gathering stage prior to a run. Basically what I had in mind was Case's run on SenseNet from Neuromancer, or the Straylight run from the end of the book. Days, if not weeks, of prep followed by a few hours of action and a system assault that either works perfectly, or goes horribly wrong.
I also gave netrunners a secondary role as drone & interfaced vehicle operators, as per riggers from Shadowrun. In general I tried not to use too many of the new character classes that where added as the game developed.
Oh, I also use the dual class system from Interface. In the game I am about to run there will be straight Nomads as well as a Nomad/Techies a Nomad/Netrunner and most likely a Nomad/Solo. The idea is that a specialist gets the full benefit of the Nomad "family" skill within their own speciality. But they have less pull outside it than an ordinary Nomad does. The principle extended to the other social character classes (Corporates and Cops) with a notional "Street" class that had no special skill for unaffiliated specialists.