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[Silas Vitalia]

Finite resources.

Re-seed all systems and all belts with say 100x what they have now, or enough for say, two years at current depletion rates.  No mineral respawns. Ship wrecks leave salvageable minerals up to say 25% of what went into the ship.

Watch the conflicts and reap the real-politik of dealing with a world of finite resources.

[Saede Riordan]

welp, try this

[Esna Pitoojee]

There are several remaining extreme differences between RL natural resources and EVE resources:

First, while it is extremely difficult to run off with a country's worth of natural resource, a well-placed spy could steal enough to literally end the game for one alliance - or equip another for a full campaign. Conversely, since it is impossible access resources in EVE once someone else has mined them, the main point in invasions-for-resources - to bring enough control over a region to actually harvest those resources - becomes moot.

Second, once secured in a private hangar, EVE's resources are literally impossible to embezzle/steal/etc. Consequently, important assets would rapidly become tied up in the private hangars of a handful of awesomely powerful moguls, with the current trends of ship replacement by nullsec alliances being moved into full-on "ship issuing".


So, tl;dr - invading for resources rapidly becomes pointless. Instead there will be a brief golden era of spymanship and sabotage as various groups attempt to grab as much of each others' stuff as they can before everyone wakes up and it is all moved to CEOs' private hangars/alts. From this point on, those CEOs and moguls run alliances by issuing ships, but even this would largely be moot - the most damage that could be done would still be through spymanship and sabotage, via having spies steal individual ships until the number add up.

And, if nothing else changes, we'll soon see rookie ship blobs again - because loosing 300 rookie ships will still be less damaging than loosing 10 BCs.

[Merdaneth]

I prefer my idea of destroyable resources.

Resources regenerate/can be rediscovered, but player actions can make them (temporarily) unavailable.

[Saede Riordan]

I prefer my idea of destroyable resources.

Resources regenerate/can be rediscovered, but player actions can make them (temporarily) unavailable.

you mind posting that idea in my thread in the Jita Park Speakers Corner? I'm trying to get a discussion going.

[Lyn Farel]

Hehehe, that would be quite awesome in an experimental game I think, but I hardly think that eve is really suited for such a thing. Though it would be really fun as an experiment with more and more scarcity and desperation for players to witness. I mean, the whole idea of starting in an opulent environnement full of resources where they almost do not matter at all, to progressively fall in a harsher and harsher world where even basic needs are not met for everyone is quite genius (and quite the opposite of any MMO economy by the way, where everyone starts with nothing and gather resources, creates inflation, etc).

But yes anyway, Eve does not fit since people play for fun, and fun often means progressing, being able to pilot what you want with a little work, etc.

There are several remaining extreme differences between RL natural resources and EVE resources:

First, while it is extremely difficult to run off with a country's worth of natural resource, a well-placed spy could steal enough to literally end the game for one alliance - or equip another for a full campaign. Conversely, since it is impossible access resources in EVE once someone else has mined them, the main point in invasions-for-resources - to bring enough control over a region to actually harvest those resources - becomes moot.

Second, once secured in a private hangar, EVE's resources are literally impossible to embezzle/steal/etc. Consequently, important assets would rapidly become tied up in the private hangars of a handful of awesomely powerful moguls, with the current trends of ship replacement by nullsec alliances being moved into full-on "ship issuing".


So, tl;dr - invading for resources rapidly becomes pointless. Instead there will be a brief golden era of spymanship and sabotage as various groups attempt to grab as much of each others' stuff as they can before everyone wakes up and it is all moved to CEOs' private hangars/alts. From this point on, those CEOs and moguls run alliances by issuing ships, but even this would largely be moot - the most damage that could be done would still be through spymanship and sabotage, via having spies steal individual ships until the number add up.

And, if nothing else changes, we'll soon see rookie ship blobs again - because loosing 300 rookie ships will still be less damaging than loosing 10 BCs.

Esna, your tl;dr is actually almost longer than the rest of your post... 

Anyway I agree with all the expected "exploits" of the system. To avoid that they would also have to make your hangars actual warehouses that can be pillaged like everything else.

[Nmaro Makari]

Marry me, Silas?

[Silas Vitalia]

Since this is a thought-experiment, I'll hand-wave some other game mechanic changes to make it more fun : P

I just really, really like the idea of things getting a bit more 'post apocalyptic' with roving bands of marauders happening upon a circle of wagons and fighting for what scraps of resources remain.


Esna is right in that this would require a lot of redesign for things like hangars and how these resources are saved, collected, and managed, but the 'idea' of scarcity would be neat.

The game needs to change from 'sitting in my castle making money' and 'its easy and there's no penalty to quickly launch an invasion of an area since all war assets can easily traverse regions in a few minutes'

to

'my castle moves with me as we go fight over valuable things that change locations' and 'committing ships and resources takes time, effort, and leaves my back door undefended'

We need more 'caravan' style gameplay.

[Saede Riordan]

Completely agree, and this is the sort of game direction change CCP needs to hear from a lot of players and probably the CSM about. They need to be told that we would consider this a good option.

[Silas Vitalia]

This will never fly because the current 'ATM Machine' setup is easy.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Esna, your tl;dr is actually almost longer than the rest of your post... 

Welp. I just kept typing until my thoughts felt expressed, then hit the post button... xD



Another thought: What if limited discoverable resources were available in scan-able sites, but the sites appeared in local FW-style once someone warped in? What if they were viewable on the universe map?

And, what if you could choose to attempt to scorch the site of actual resources instead of mining it yourself? Scorched earth campaigns?


Also, just a weird thought: Wouldn't Amarr ships become universal in time due to total lack of T1 ammo use? <_<

[orange]

So, instead of the radical "resources eventually go away" create different ways of getting new resources.

In Eve II (TM Wanoh), 0.0/WH could be resource rich, but the bitch part is that there aren't any stargates.  You can build them, but they are huge investments.   Give multiple ways to get to 0.0 space as well, wormholes, expeditions, etc.

Low-Sec is Empire 0.0; it is not built-up, stargates don't always work, the empires are at war competing for resources. Etc

High-sec becomes all about recycling.  The way to destroy a ship is to self-destruct (but your pod can't escape that), otherwise ships become hulks and the pilots who hold the field mine the loses.

Hersey: Maybe we should all quit eve and build a competitor...

[Saede Riordan]

Or not quit eve and still start a competitor. I mean, the crew that made eve in the first place went there from Ultima right?

[Akrasjel Lanate]

I would say, maby not "Finite resources"(such would end eventualy and the game would die ) but rather limited so that they matter more.

[Lyn Farel]

Also, just a weird thought: Wouldn't Amarr ships become universal in time due to total lack of T1 ammo use? <_<

Until you turn completely hardcore and implement fuel for subcaps as well, and energy to fuel your capacitor (kekekeke Amarr ships).

derp