Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Benjamin Shepherd on 31 Jul 2010, 19:45
-
Your thoughts on creating an new "Summit" that may offer alternative pros and cons. A place that isn't pirate-centric.
I'm being limited in words b/c I'd like to see what people think about the idea.
-
What do you mean by 'pirate-centric'?
I'm actually a mod in the Summit. It's open to everyone.
OFC, since quite a few RPers play for pirate factions, you do get a good number in there. It might not be a bad idea to have a place that was more focused on Empire factions for those who want it. I'm just not sure how you would implement that, unless you excluded people who worked for non-empire factions? (Which may well work, ofc. There is precedent for successful channels based on certain membership prerequisites.)
-
Hmm. My experience from the days when I actually used that channel did not indicate it was pirate centric, and the recent controversies regarding the Sansha invasion response lead me to believe that it hasn't moved too much in that direction.
Regardless, the reasons I stopped going there had little to do with the factional representation.
-
This was tried once before; the channel is called "The Conference". For whatever reason (lack of 'advertising', issues prevalent in the channel, lack of activity period... I wasn't on there for long) the channel is now completely dead. As an interesting side note, the MOTD has been changed from something rather more... colorful to a more or less identical copy of The Summit's MOTD.
Another try would be interesting - perhaps a "learn from your mistakes" thing?
-
Perhaps a more heavily moderated alternative?
There would need to be decisions made about what sort of moderation would be appropriate, ofc.
-
Another channel with elevator music for people to say hello to each other, then stare balefully for hours on end? What can go wrong?
-
Best of luck to you.
-
It is more so the nature of the people who frequent The Summit tend to be extroverts. In my experience, the vast majority of loyalists I see stick to their own circles and never stick their neck out.
If anything, I consider The Summit a stepping stone when the people don't have a circle to be reclusive in. I could hazard to say maybe most pirates in The Summit don't have a circle, which may be backed up by my complete lack of knowledge past a handful of entities.
Consequentially I am not sure what an Empire-centric new 'summit' will achieve aside from excluding a brand of extroverts.
-
Well, if someone creates an alternative, it isn't automatically going to be exclusionary. My bad for using the word 'excluding' before, but I think we should see what the ideas are.
-
Well, if someone creates an alternative, it isn't automatically going to be exclusionary. My bad for using the word 'excluding' before, but I think we should see what the ideas are.
Well that's my impression when he mentions 'not pirate centric'. If it's not going to exclude pirates, then what is he going to say when pirates 'take over' the channel?
-
I think one reason the Loyalists stay out of the Summit, is given their internal dialogue and RP, there are very few realistic reason why they would want to interact and converse with people that their characters would see as criminals and undesirables. It breaks their immersion and their story arc.
I try to take Gottii out to the occasional pirate bar, just because I like interacting with the greater EVE RP community and Ive got a lot of non-EM friends I like to RP with.
But, to do so, Ive had to work in some (rather reaching) RP reasons why a guy who spends his life supporting a Faction and fighting criminals and pirates would want to converse and drink with the very same people he views as enemies.
Its not really about being extroverted or introverted, I think, its just differing brands of RP and storylines.
-
Its not really about being extroverted or introverted, I think, its just differing brands of RP and storylines.
This. Also, I didn't mean to say "pirate-centric"; that's not true at all. I was referring to the only alternatives other than the Summit: The Last Gate, The Skyhook. I think there's a pro-Federation one as well that Seriphyn has.
-
There may well be quite a few alternatives that simply aren't well publicized too.
-
what is "the summit" for?
Motd said "diplomacy and debate". I've recently used it in diplomacy (of a sort). Debate less so.
Mostly ,it tends towards soapboxing and mudslinging.
What would the alternative things be for?
-
I tend to see the same few characters actively use the Summit for (usually) personal conversations. Imagine 40 holograms in a circle, and two on either side were chatting about their love life. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's just not appropriate for the Summit imo.
What I was thinking about is this place that also has holograms, but encourages and (to a point) enforces actual debates. It would be a weekly thing, during the time most people are online, and well-advertised on the IGS a week in advance, with updates about it to encourage people. These discussions could run for an hour, and be wide and varied. The difference between this FTL channel and the Summit is that debates would be conducted in a professional setting.
It seems like it would compete with the Summit, but that's not my plan. In fact, I'm not even sure if I or someone else will make the channel.
-
A Summit excluding the Sansha bandwagon would have me joining... Or an Empire centric Summit or something like that. I'm just a little leery about joining a channel which has a 99% chance of containing the kind of people my character would consider mortal enemies. Not conducive to non-RAEG RP.
-
I think one reason the Loyalists stay out of the Summit, is given their internal dialogue and RP, there are very few realistic reason why they would want to interact and converse with people that their characters would see as criminals and undesirables. It breaks their immersion and their story arc.
I try to take Gottii out to the occasional pirate bar, just because I like interacting with the greater EVE RP community and Ive got a lot of non-EM friends I like to RP with.
But, to do so, Ive had to work in some (rather reaching) RP reasons why a guy who spends his life supporting a Faction and fighting criminals and pirates would want to converse and drink with the very same people he views as enemies.
Its not really about being extroverted or introverted, I think, its just differing brands of RP and storylines.
Well, why not use the block function?
In public fluid router locations like The Summit, if entities that you consider your character would have no reason to talk to shows up you can simply block them. Out of sight, out of mind.
Not to say you should but I'm interested in your thoughts on that approach.
-
Well, why not use the block function?
You mean, go to a channel full of people you don't want to talk with, and block most of them?
And blocking isn't a good solution in my view.
I've only got one person blocked at the moment, and the reason I've unblocked others is that conversations can get really surreal when someone is replying to comments you can't see interspersed amongst the ones you can.
-
Wait, you're recommending to block people so you can use a 'public discussion' channel without constant propaganda/spam?
What?
-
A Summit excluding the Sansha bandwagon would have me joining...
You over-estimate the numbers there. I'd be of the mindset that for a "bandwagon" there needs to be more than 4-6 people involved.
what is "the summit" for?
Key question. Right there. No one ever wants to answer it. They want to dance around it and complain about factor "x" being the cause why The Summit has issues, and no matter how many times people point out that no one has ever given a solid answer to this question is the core problem with the Summit and that until it is resolved there will continue to be problems, no one answers it.
So.
What's it for?
-
A Summit excluding the Sansha bandwagon would have me joining...
You over-estimate the numbers there. I'd be of the mindset that for a "bandwagon" there needs to be more than 4-6 people involved.
what is "the summit" for?
Key question. Right there. No one ever wants to answer it. They want to dance around it and complain about factor "x" being the cause why The Summit has issues, and no matter how many times people point out that no one has ever given a solid answer to this question is the core problem with the Summit and that until it is resolved there will continue to be problems, no one answers it.
So.
What's it for?
As far as I'm concerned, the Summit is for 'general RP' and discussion. I'm not sure how to be clearer. It's also a tool for people's characters to meet IC, even if those connections are often extended further elsewhere. A sort of central place for people from different parts of the community, or who are new to it, to run into people they might be interested in interacting with.
This is probably a discussion for the other thread, if you want to revive it. This thread is about a potential alternative to the Summit, rather than about The Summit.
-
Check the forums tomorrow afternoon (evening for Europeans) for something I've been working on about this.
-
I think one reason the Loyalists stay out of the Summit, is given their internal dialogue and RP, there are very few realistic reason why they would want to interact and converse with people that their characters would see as criminals and undesirables. It breaks their immersion and their story arc.
I try to take Gottii out to the occasional pirate bar, just because I like interacting with the greater EVE RP community and Ive got a lot of non-EM friends I like to RP with.
But, to do so, Ive had to work in some (rather reaching) RP reasons why a guy who spends his life supporting a Faction and fighting criminals and pirates would want to converse and drink with the very same people he views as enemies.
Its not really about being extroverted or introverted, I think, its just differing brands of RP and storylines.
Well, why not use the block function?
In public fluid router locations like The Summit, if entities that you consider your character would have no reason to talk to shows up you can simply block them. Out of sight, out of mind.
Not to say you should but I'm interested in your thoughts on that approach.
Well, again, Im not exactly sure how thats not immersion breaking either. They show up at the Summit..and...refuse to see people? Literally as in unable to see them, mental block. Im not sure how to roleplay that in any meaningful way. I think the block function is there for trolls and isk spammers, not as an RP tool.
And it the end of the day its a moot point, the end result is the same. Its people not talking for RP reasons. Its just the Summit would be even more bizarre, as there would be multiple conversations of people who cant or wont communicate with each other. That doesnt seem any better than two separate channels, actually rather worse.
-
I think one reason the Loyalists stay out of the Summit, is given their internal dialogue and RP, there are very few realistic reason why they would want to interact and converse with people that their characters would see as criminals and undesirables. It breaks their immersion and their story arc.
I try to take Gottii out to the occasional pirate bar, just because I like interacting with the greater EVE RP community and Ive got a lot of non-EM friends I like to RP with.
But, to do so, Ive had to work in some (rather reaching) RP reasons why a guy who spends his life supporting a Faction and fighting criminals and pirates would want to converse and drink with the very same people he views as enemies.
Its not really about being extroverted or introverted, I think, its just differing brands of RP and storylines.
Well, why not use the block function?
In public fluid router locations like The Summit, if entities that you consider your character would have no reason to talk to shows up you can simply block them. Out of sight, out of mind.
Not to say you should but I'm interested in your thoughts on that approach.
Well, again, Im not exactly sure how thats not immersion breaking either. They show up at the Summit..and...refuse to see people? Literally as in unable to see them, mental block. Im not sure how to roleplay that in any meaningful way. I think the block function is there for trolls and isk spammers, not as an RP tool.
And it the end of the day its a moot point, the end result is the same. Its people not talking for RP reasons. Its just the Summit would be even more bizarre, as there would be multiple conversations of people who cant or wont communicate with each other. That doesnt seem any better than two separate channels, actually rather worse.
I've given thought to that idea and there is no real benefit to it, so I agree with you.
Thought was also given to your original point, which I found pretty much sound. I dislike it, but I'm hard pressed to think of any real sensible explanation against it.
Righto, carry on then.
-
I want a Summit with all the interesting people removed!
-
I want a Summit with all the interesting people removed!
Oh come now, it's fun to debate with people who agree with you. . .
-
what is "the summit" for?
As far as I'm concerned, the Summit is for 'general RP' and discussion. I'm not sure how to be clearer. It's also a tool for people's characters to meet IC, even if those connections are often extended further elsewhere. A sort of central place for people from different parts of the community, or who are new to it, to run into people they might be interested in interacting with.
It has never worked for me that way. Back when I was actually hanging around on it as a new eve RPer, it was so bad (confusing, unwelcoming, full of people I couldn't figure out why my character would want to talk to, and so full of noise that I had difficulty keeping up without keeping the window open full time, which it didn't repay) that I dropped it fairly quickly. And now many people I know avoid it. It actually seems to me that the OOC channel accomplished your stated goal much more than the summit did, for me anyway.
It feels a little like you're trying to have an IC channel for explicitly OOC reasons? I'm still confused about why my character would want to talk to most of the people in the summit...
Doesn't it require a certain amount of critical mass for this to work? Or like the plethora of OOC channels, there ends up being lots of different IC general channels, which means there really isn't a single go-to place to meet people.
-
Well, again, we should probably go to the other thread, for this, but basically I'm in a 'caretaker' position with regards to The Summit. I'm hesitant to make major changes, and I'm not sure that there are major changes I could make without altering the channels basic idea. It's perfectly valid that people might not want to interact with other people, but that is down to your character, not the channel.
I know that it has served the purpose that I stated, for me, and for other people. Obviously no one channel is going to serve the needs of everyone perfectly, and I think that all can be done really is make it as open as possible.
I think it doesn't seem unreasonable that, IC, there might be a com channel open to the podder community at large. I don't think that OOC reasons (like encouraging people to talk to people they might not otherwise talk to) invalidate the plausibility of the channel IC. I also think it is up to individual players whether they prefer to start their interactions IC or OOC, and the two channels facilitate either inclination.
I'm not sure what the solution would be if people find the channel both inactive and overactive or noisy. I know that trying to hop in, as a new RPer, to participate in ongoing RP debates or what have you might be intimidating, but the Summit is nothing if not welcoming to lurkers :P.
If you have a lot of people talking, it is gonna be an issue keeping up, that's just how chat channels work sometimes. Likewise being confusing for a new person (as partially addressed above). The unhelpful part is something that probably can be - and should be - dealt with, to some degree, and I hope that I've started doing that.
-
[mod]Modded for personal attack and insult[/mod]
-
I tended to see The Summit as the default IC channel and rather like an in-game counterpart to the IGS. The problem with this idea is that both seemed to be used as default IC fora while having a more specific stated aim, and this can (and has) lead to some confusion and conflict.
Both venues have been somewhat problematic for as long as I can remember. Still, both will only ever be as good as people want to make them.
ETA:
Once upon a time, people moaned and moaned about how crappy the IGS was. They complained that it was repetitive, devoid of interesting stuff, and the moderation regime was too restrictive to allow a reasonable level of expression. Some people decided to set up an alternative venue, but it fell flat on its face. It seemed that there were enough people complaining, but not enough people actually willing to do anything else.
Similarly, there was much complaining about the levels of drama on The Chatsubo, but little real desire to actually do anything about it. Once things had improved, the loudest complaints generally came from the people that only occasionally visited to post in the drama threads. I tended to think of them as drive-by dramawhores. No names, ofc, but I remember who you were. :P
Still, I have a feeling that things are a bit different now. Eve has grown, and it looks like the RP community has grown with it. The existence of this very forum seems to suggest that it is now much more likely that you can get the necessary critical mass to launch an alternative and for it to succeed.
-
Once upon a time, people moaned and moaned about how crappy the IGS was. They complained that it was repetitive, devoid of interesting stuff, and the moderation regime was too restrictive to allow a reasonable level of expression. Some people decided to set up an alternative venue, but it fell flat on its face.
I vaguely remember that, and vaguely remember not caring a whole lot when it went kaput because no one really used it.
-
I think I've come up with the solution, but it's undergoing major restructuring. Still, pop by before I officially announce it in-game.
http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=846.0
-
I could swear I replied to this....Sign of things to come?
-
I could swear I replied to this....Sign of things to come?
You did, see the Catacombs (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?board=14.0).