EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources > EVE OOC Summit
State of Minmatar RP
Samira Kernher:
I agree with most of this. While I played Samira as going through slums, that was a factor I attribute to being an immigrant rather than something global for the Republic. At the same time I've RPed that there is a significant amount of social services on tribal lines (inspired by a story CCP Eterne wrote). Certainly more than either the Empire (purely charity-based unless you sell yourself into slavery) or the State (completely casting out the unemployed). Good social services doesn't mean you don't have to deal with living in a rough or cramped neighborhood, mind, but it does mean you'll get food and medical coverage and won't be forced out onto the streets.
As for the military, the fleet is smaller than both the Empire and the Federation, there's a post on the EVE Fiction forum where Falcon rates them. I can't speak for the rest of the military though, so you might be right if you're counting all active service personnel.
The main disagreement we've had is in the Emancipation. While Republic social services are pretty good, the sheer volume did severely tax the Republic's services and caused a huge economic and societal mess, as described by basically everything written about it. But that mess is something that would have happened in any nation because a huge wave of immigrants is always going to tax resources.
--- Quote from: Ayallah on 15 May 2017, 03:00 ---There is actually a lore bit about that somewhere, I will have to hunt it down.
But basically it says that the Republic actually has more advanced infrastructure on average than the Federation because it was bought new. and they already picked the cheaper, more efficient options. Like your cell tower story. I think maybe it was in a blurb about holo viewers or something like that.
--- End quote ---
It's from the HoloVision article.
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=HoloVision#Distribution
Nissui:
^ One of the reasons I like boosting Urban Management and Six Kin when RP provides the opportunity.
Ayallah:
--- Quote from: Samira Kernher on 15 May 2017, 15:39 ---As for the military, the fleet is smaller than both the Empire and the Federation, there's a post on the EVE Fiction forum where Falcon rates them. I can't speak for the rest of the military though, so you might be right if you're counting all active service personnel.
--- End quote ---
It was based on some argument with falcon in #lore, it is quite likely I misremembered it or that he was talking about total military personnel. It is inconsequential really except to demonstrate that its military is still larger than the State's (which has an equivalent population) and less technologically sophisticated than the Federation's but more so than the Empire's.
--- Quote from: Samira Kernher on 15 May 2017, 15:39 ---The main disagreement we've had is in the Emancipation. While Republic social services are pretty good, the sheer volume did severely tax the Republic's services and caused a huge economic and societal mess, as described by basically everything written about it. But that mess is something that would have happened in any nation because a huge wave of immigrants is always going to tax resources.
--- End quote ---
I disagree in that conclusion personally.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/empress-jamyl-i-makes-historic-emancipation-announcement/
The first article, it focuses completely on the impact on The Empire of the loss of workforce and limited rioting amongst slave populations.
Follows is the life after emancipation series which details the social systems that were created to manage the released slaves. All the hardships stem from imperial holders not giving adequate help to the free'd slaves, not anything on behalf of the republic that cannot be attributed to surprise.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/life-after-emancipation-the-road-home-1/
--- Quote ---”We thought life would get better at first,” says Onyeka, ‘But it only got worse. We saved what we could, but it was months before we had enough for a place on a shuttle.” At the expense of reduced power to the family of eight’s single room apartment, they saved enough to send Onyeka to the Republic to begin a new life.
--- End quote ---
Got worse While they were stuck in the Empire
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/life-after-emancipation-refuge-and-resettlement-1/
The SoE step in and assist, opening space as well as providing transport.
https://community.testeveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/life-after-emancipation-adaptation-and-adjustment/
Details the social system waiting for them in the republic.
https://community.testeveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/life-after-emancipation-citizenship/
Finishing the series, speaking about the hardships of change and some information about the social system.
Based on this, and paying close attention to the dates, I assert that the main hardships those who were freed felt were while they were in the Empire, unable to afford to leave and not supported by the holders who freed them for the most part. Once they got to the Republic they had a well developed, if at first ill-prepared system waiting for them. That three-day burst of overwhelming was a result of the SoE stepping in and transporting people en-mass. But the civil systems were waiting for them regardless.
That year of hardships was because the Empire just freed them and then did nothing until iirc Jamyl stepped in and glassed some holds.
What you are remembering is probably this article: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/many-starkmanir-refugees-finding-new-life-difficult/
This is in sharp contrast to the life after emancipation series and takes place just before it. It also is about the starkmanir exclusively. It is really odd to think of the insane difference between the two but I attribute that to two things: the SoE was not involved and they had no tribe in the republic to assist them. Highlighting the second it could be considered a problem with the tribal structure. With no tribe to help them perhaps the social systems were not available to them like they were just months later.
Also the Starkmanir had been freed for quite a long time at that point, they are also supposed to numerically insignificant even today almost a decade later. To me that pushes my perspective to 'no tribe, no help' which is more akin to the state than the federation but it's honestly hard to say.
Why a small number of people had such a difficult time but a much larger group just after had an easy one is hard to say. Additionally, there are a LOT of nefantir in the Republic. More than were emancipated and a hell of a lot more than the starkmanir. Emancipated was in the 700mil range, starkmanir was supposed to be in the thousands ...yet the nefantir numbered in the hundreds of billions.
a few thousand had a hard time, 700 million were portrayed as having a good social system once they got to the republic and almost five hundred billion were completely unmentioned. Many of those nefantar returned with the starkmanir as well. it was supposed to have taken place at near the same time. I assume that the 500 billion trickled in over the intervening years though. Also they had their own money and resources and were not as slaves so that probably contributed.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/sanmatar-shakor-affirms-starkmanir-nefantar-tribal-chiefs/
When they both got chiefs years later is really the only snapshot I could find. Also this
--- Quote ---Nefantar, today, face many challenges. Their ancestral lands, unlike that of the Thukker and Starkmanir on Matar held in trust, had no accommodation for the Nefantar. Court cases, land disputes, and religious tensions have made it difficult for the Nefantar refugees and the integration of the tribe with the Republic
--- End quote ---
...which I think points to the harships being Tribal political in nature rather than a lack of infrastructure. Well, infrastructure than belonged to the nefantir anyway.
:psyccp: is all I can say. How the protected people in an insignificant number had a hard time idfk. I think they were just used as an example of the hardships that can be felt by those returning and is ..well it should have been written as hardships the nefantir face imo but it is PF so we have to reconcile.
Here is more confusion:
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Nefantar_Tribe
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Nefantar
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Starkmanir_Tribe
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Starkmanir#cite_note-e-5
Note the contrast between all these sources. Also check out the series on the religious backlash the nefantar/ammatar faced after defection. I don't have the time now to hunt down all the dead links but from what I can piece together is this:
Those freed in emancipation experienced hardships in the empire but were well taken care of once they arrived in the Republic.
The Starkmanir were protected but experienced hardships possibly due to not having a chief or resources available at the time. They faced religious persecution.
The Nefantar returned in much better shape, they had resources to do so maybe? But they faced a lot of religious persecution as they brought with them the Imperial Rite in quantity.
Where those social systems that assisted the emancipated went and came from is anyone's guess but I am personally attributing it to Tribal politics/ the fact that the Nefantar had to make it more on their own? Perhaps the Starkmanir did as well. Room for debate I think but also room to bring inter-tribal politics and the hardships of the transition from the first republic to the new tribal republic in.
The new Tribal republic with the new chiefs was after all this so presumably those hardships have been dealt with now that the starkmanir and nefantar have representative chiefs. God only knows though.
--- Quote from: Samira Kernher on 15 May 2017, 15:39 ---It's from the HoloVision article.
--- End quote ---
Yep, that's the one I remember. Thank you ))
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=HoloVision#Distribution
[/quote]
Samira Kernher:
The articles I think to are:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/in-the-wake-of-jarek-religion-continues-to-be-contentious-issue-1/
(Evidence of clear social unrest between different groups of immigrants. Anywhere where there are Amarr faithful, there is religious conflict, particularly when both sides are immigrants)
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/food-supplies-to-republic-at-risk-according-to-aidonis-medical-1/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/gallente-medical-charity-under-pressure-over-salvation-crusade/
(Makes the case that Republic-based sources are possibly biased (Aidonis Medical could be the ones in the wrong, of course) and there might be pressure to refuse humanitarian aid to Amarr faithful)
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/minmatar-crime-lord-escapes-maximum-security-prison/
(Evidence of a "great increase in arrests" following the emancipation)
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/sanmatar-shakor-calls-for-assembly-of-the-seven-tribes/
("... domestic strain stemming from the rising population ...")
I do agree that the worst of the economic problems was likely faced by the Nefantar and Starkmanir in light of there being no tribal infrastructure existing for them. Other tribes most certainly fared better overall, but religious conflicts still caused issues in these cases. Most often conflicts between faithful and non-faithful immigrants, who the Republic refused to segregate.
There is domestic strain and increases in crime and arrests, but that is again something I attribute to high immigration numbers and not as a condemnation of the Republic itself.
Xepharious:
Thank you both, so very very much, for summarizing those links. What a wealth of resources!
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