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[Makoto Priano]

Hey folks! Made-up word time! Canonicity!

So. EVE True Stories has introduced alts as an actual fluff mechanic in EVE, using a mechanism comparable to jump clones. The idea, it appears, is that while the neural element of various clones must be compatible, the physical form isn't fixed and so players/pilots may jump between different-looking bodies as they like.

Without getting into the ugly story mess of the Broker and impersonating whomever, however, it seems fairly reasonable that cosmetic changes between different bodies are viable without much expense, though presumably creation of a false identity would require some handwavium, explanation of SP differences (or quietly ignoring those as game mechanics that are hard to explain), and wanton bribery of CONCORD.

Alternatively, we could assume that this occupies a space comparable to the Star Wars Extended Universe, which is semi-canon -- whereas the movies are canon, novelizations of the movies are canon, and the mass of books are canon where they don't directly contradict what we know from the canon of the movies.

Thoughts?

[Jace]

The different pilot records (School, ancestry, etc.), SP, etc., all seem rather deal breaking to me. But as I haven't read any of the True Stories nor intend to, my opinion might not be relevant. I'm not entirely sure if they set it up with anything besides massive handwavium.

[Esna Pitoojee]

This is not actually an entirely new concept in EVE; the old chronicle One Man Too Many deals with an assassination performed with the assassin using someone else's body (he is given away by a mannerism failure).

That said, I still think the EVE: True Stories (and this issue of jump clones and alts in particular) should be regarded as largely noncanon depictions, for two reasons: One, they apparently include plenty of other meta-stuff that isn't really well-suited for in-character writing, and two, the aforementioned chronicle suggests this kind of thing is truly rare - the realm of master assassins and high-level political intrigue. The idea that anyone with the jump clone skill can do it anyway now seems rather silly to me.

Also, what Jace said.

[Shiori]

Before, greater lorefiends than I have told me in full earnesty that all CCP material should be considered canon even if it is dissonant, contradictory with earlier materials, or just balls-out insane, so welcome to the new status quo, I guess.

[Makoto Priano]

Mm. I think Torfi had said something about how they'd let Dark Horse take a somewhat free hand, use dramatic license, and so on-- so I'm definitely ranking True Stories on the lower end of the spectrum of canonicity.

That said, Esna, I'm of the mind that the chronicle you're citing actually is relevant-- while Joe Baseliner probably won't even have the funds for a clone contract or much augmentation, even poor capsuleers are still quite wealthy by lore terms. We already have at-will cloning and augmentation, and substantial financial reserves-- so some skullduggery between capsuleers after bribing CONCORD a bunch seems not unreasonable.

But yeah.

Personally, my thought is that priority goes Source > Chronicles/EVE proper > TonyG > True Stories

[Jace]

Mm. I think Torfi had said something about how they'd let Dark Horse take a somewhat free hand, use dramatic license, and so on-- so I'm definitely ranking True Stories on the lower end of the spectrum of canonicity.

That said, Esna, I'm of the mind that the chronicle you're citing actually is relevant-- while Joe Baseliner probably won't even have the funds for a clone contract or much augmentation, even poor capsuleers are still quite wealthy by lore terms. We already have at-will cloning and augmentation, and substantial financial reserves-- so some skullduggery between capsuleers after bribing CONCORD a bunch seems not unreasonable.

But yeah.

Personally, my thought is that priority goes Source > Chronicles/EVE proper > TonyG > True Stories

A player bribing CONCORD doesn't seem unreasonable to you?

[Makoto Priano]

Wardecs. Independent capsuleer Sanshas, Blood Raiders, Guristas, Serpentis, Angels. Nullification of negative security status by providing a few tags.

CONCORD isn't exactly a clean organization. We don't need to go full-on grimdark to assume there are ways to 'certify' a false identity, provided adequate payment is provided.

[Jace]

That is a far cry from bribing to falsify records. In my mind, that is under the same category as "I am the long lost song of Falek!"

[Makoto Priano]

p.s. edited post about the time you responded with additional notes.

[Jace]

p.s. edited post about the time you responded with additional notes.

I wasn't questioning the cleanliness of CONCORD, merely the godmodeyness (< is a word) of bribing an NPC entity to the point of explaining away huge game mechanics (Character Sheet).

[Katrina Oniseki]

Yes it is canon.

Not because someone wrote a comic about it, not because CCP says so, but because it happened in the game and forms part of EVE's actual history. It's something our characters talk about, it's something we all know about, and it's something that should not be ignored.

Did the events happen the way the comics claim they did? No, of course not. Why should they? They happened the way they actually happened.

The comics can be considered IC as exactly what they are OOC. They are fanciful retellings of a major part of New Eden's history. Just like in reality, stories as they are told and told again and told again take on a life of their own, adding and removing details (sometimes important parts) for artistic value, to make the story interesting. These comic retellings of the stories are just that. Artistic versions of something that actually happened.

In short, the best way to consider the comics as a source of canon is by realizing they are not historical textbooks, or chat logs, or accurate at all. They are just one of the many versions of a wildly popular tale of exploits done by capsuleers.

[Morwen Lagann]

Kind of what Kat said. It's important to make a distinction between canon and prime fiction.

CCP had no hand in or influence on the actual story as written in the comic, so they are not PF - there is no lore, technological, cultural or otherwise, to be derived from here as "the word of god" so to speak.

That said, the events did happen, so in some fashion they are canon. However, they're about as canon as a fictional movie based on real events. Or, considering the medium, a movie based on a book based on real events.

I think the best way to treat the comics themselves is as exactly what they are - fanciful comic books based on events that the authors (ostensibly baseliners, possibly even capsuleer-worshippers) have absolutely zero fucking clue on the details of. Facts will be twisted and misinterpreted, and completely false information will be presented as truth for the sake of artistic/dramatic license.

[Makoto Priano]

Prime fiction! That's the term I was forgetting. Yes. Not PF, but in the canon, if at a distance.

The comparison I was thinking of while walking back to the office: it's not science, it's like science news reporting. Correlation becomes causation, distant possibilities are presented like they'll be possible immediately, and so on.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Yes, under that terminology, it certainly is 'canon'. I was assuming we were talking about the exact details, more in line with what's being called PF here.

[Jace]

Yes, under that terminology, it certainly is 'canon'. I was assuming we were talking about the exact details, more in line with what's being called PF here.

Same.