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[Khloe]

I'm going to get right to the question: Do you think characters (IC) should be linking content from Evelopedia to educate/debate with other players in forums and in-game?

And just so there's no confusion I'm quite against it, but I'd like to hear other opinions about the subject.

For some anecdotal evidence, I'll share an experience of my own. Mercy is chatting with some character in the Summit, and a subject comes up that I the player am aware of but my character is not. I do my best to play ignorant in a believable fashion, but for one individual this wasn't good enough, so they linked the topic directly from Evelopedia into the channel. While I like to think the person I encountered in the Summit assumed that Evelopedia is an IC reference tool rather than thinking I was misunderstood OOC (linking info in an IC environment), it does make me wonder how many times Evelopedia is merely used as a battering ram to tell people they are wrong.

Another good example of this is in the current Intergalactic Summit thread, where players are essentially having an OOC debate IC about the legitimacy of something that happened in make-believe land rather than the topic itself. Every time a ship crew discussion appears the same situation occurs.

I understand that Evelopedia is a general reference tool for players to immerse themselves into the world of New Eden, but personally I don't see anything good in using the reference as IC material. Character knowledge levels vary significantly, and expecting everyone to have intimate knowledge of everything seems like an immersion deal-breaker for me. If a player is suspected to not understand the nuances of a subject their character is commenting on, it would seem courteous to eve-mail them privately about the matter rather than publicly stoning them with Evelopedia links.

[Horatius Caul]

Same problem as with the chronicles, really. Maybe even worse as the wiki is presented as an encyclopedia, and some articles seem to speak to the players and some seem to speak to the characters.

[Saede Riordan]

I tried to make my character's wiki article IC, but overall I don't know how I feel about this. Its a kind of complicated situation.

[Nmaro Makari]

I follow a simple formula which so far has served me well; if its described as a "secret" or myth or urban legend, then all your character can offer is speculation.

[Samira Kernher]

Personally I don't particularly care much for it. But since I see it so frequently done, I assumed that people considered EVElopedia articles IC and decided to follow the crowd.

That being said, the only issue with EVElopedia is if the articles are written from an OOC rather than IC standpoint. We're in a sci-fi universe, surely the GalNet has its own form of a wikipedia/encyclopedia. Characters knowing these things aren't a problem, the problem is if the article itself is OOC.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Well, while I'm not quite a fan of linking EVElopedia articles in IC discussionas/debates, I have to admit to making relatively ample usage of it n IGS.

The reason why I don't like it is that it's very aggressively hammering a point across. That is the case regardless of whether one perceives the EVElopedia to be an IC tool or not. Why am I still using it on certain occasions? Because sometimes, the only proper response for my character would be to write just said article in response. Besides the C/P being kind'a senseless in that case, imho, I oftentimes took the time to retell the stuff with my own words, writing a good side or so why x != y. What happens then is one of three things:
a) The ignorant char opens up for real debate about it. (Which is fine and most fun to me.)
b) The ignorant char makes clear that 'facts won't confuse him'. (Which is also fine by me and something I do myself with Nico, sometimes.)
or
c) The ignorant char goes off on a 'you are wrong and you can't prove me to be wrong anyways'.

I think the latter is being a problem, here. There have been cases in which I was then pulling up news reports, done my utmost to produce evidence and such to make my point. The problem is, our Chars in EVE have only that many sources at their disposal. I can't get over to the virtual shelf and produce the parts of the Scripture that produce, e.g. the parts that point out that the Emperor doesn't have the privilege to alter Scripture permanently and that this power rests exclusively with the TC. At some point in a discussion like that, you have to get out the battering ram.

Honestly, there came a point when I gave up playing nice, because it's a giant load of effort. It's easier and also not inappropriate, I think, to write a short response detailing it and to include an EVElopedia link to the relevant page. I'm not really of the conviction that one should stand back here for courtesies sake and do a private EVE-mail. If characters blurt out their ignorance in IGS, then they have to be prepared to be battered down.

Sure, though, there is another problem with linking EVElopedia articles. It's whether they constitute an IC source or not. Well, I think it should be clear that only EVElopedia articles that are CCP approved do give reliable PF info. The thing is that CCP doesn't make it easy for us RPers and has a wild mix of OOC and IC infos in their articles. I think the IC/OOC tags they have could be used much more efficently there. A good example of this is, imho, the article on Jamyl Sarum.

Here, the rule of thumb that Nmaro offers isn't a bad one.


In the game itself, I tend to not use the EVElopedia and if I do, I post it occly to the person in question, either in an ooc channel we both are in or by evemail.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Backing N'maro's rule of thumb as well.

Unfortunately, usage of the EVElopedia is often something which has to be addressed in a case-by case manner; some articles describe rules or laws which our characters could reasonably have access to, while others describe highly secretive or distant-in-the-past actions that our characters simply aren't going to know about, sometimes in the very same article.

Because of this, there's really no way to generate a "solid rule" about it; each needs to be thought about or handled individually.

[Ollie]

+1 to N'maro's rule of thumb too. I can't honestly think of a good reason why you wouldn't use Evelopedia in this way during roleplay.

[ArtOfLight]

I typically take anything written from an IC viewpoint as IC and anything that isn't listed as "secret" or "hidden" or similar is pretty available information, even without the link. Linking EVElopedia is really best used if what's linked could be read by a player character and make sense to them.

[Lyn Farel]

I generally don't link evelopedia when answering. Even when I am totally reading it at the time I write something to check a basic fact that my character should know. I do not really like the lack of subtlelty of doing so, especially since we do not really know what evelopedia is, an IC tool, or something else/more ?

When in doubt like this, I just use it OOCly behind to check my facts, nothing more, period.

However I do not really mind when people link evelopedia links to back up their points. Why not, I take it as an IC encyclopedia source. It sometimes makes me smile when someone batters down an evelopedia link in answer to my posts like an IC "urdoingitwrong" when I am actually perfectly aware of said article that I have read again and again, but have a different interpretation of it OOCly.

And then it starts to become OOC battles veiled behind IC evelopedia arguments, which I am not fond of at all. That's why as long as I do not mind evelopedia links put directly into a discussion or debate as it can be taken IC as face value, it annoys me when instead of being a debate of what people say about things, it turns into a debate of what is written in evelopedia.

[Khloe]

I can't honestly think of a good reason why you wouldn't use Evelopedia in this way during roleplay.

If we regard this as a valid IC source, who wrote it?

[Esna Pitoojee]

ISD YARR (Yulai Archives and Record Repository), the division of the ISD IC and OOC responsible for maintaining the Evelopedia.

[Saede Riordan]

I follow a simple formula which so far has served me well; if its described as a "secret" or myth or urban legend, then all your character can offer is speculation.

Yeah this.

[Khloe]

For the record, this discussion has nothing to do with the validity of using content from the site for in-character debate/discussion, but how the material is delivered. Consider a question posed in character, "Who is The Rabbit?", and a potential answer to that question:

"http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Korako_Kosakami"
"He's only one of the most notorious outlaws in New Eden. I think he kidnapped some ambassador."

It's not to say either one of these approaches are invalid or 'somehow wrong', but personally I'd find the latter a better opportunity for discussion from individual pilots in what they know of the The Rabbit rather than simply reading it from a Wiki article. As a player who enjoys immersion, I want to see the universe from my and other character's perspectives, not just what's written in a generic information dispensing platform called YARR.

[Samira Kernher]

As a player who enjoys immersion, I want to see the universe from my and other character's perspectives, not just what's written in a generic information dispensing platform called YARR.

And what if that character's perspective is to research and provide sources in the course of arguing their case?

Anyone who reads my posts will note that Samira regularly sources her arguments to validate the points she is trying to make. Usually news reports, but EVElopedia this time around since, like I said, I've been under the impression that people consider many of those articles IC. She doesn't know everything, and those who have interacted with her can tell you she's incredibly naive about a lot of things, but there are certain topics that she is versed in and when arguing about those topics she's going to provide sources. She's a character who has been raised to not have any original thoughts, therefore she prefers to argue based on "generic information" rather than personal opinion.

As I said earlier, we're in a sci-fi universe that has its own internet in the form of GalNet. Characters are perfectly capable of using the New Eden equivalent of Google or Wikipedia to research various topics about the universe in which they live, and to use those resources to make their arguments. As long as the community considers EVElopedia an IC resource, then it will be used as one.