Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Corporation and Alliance Development => Topic started by: orange on 24 Jun 2012, 23:15
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http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120625/
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I prefer to think of it as filtering out the weak and the casual.
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I agree.
Having worked on the leadership side of the corporate structure for a while now, I can finally understand all my old leaders crying blood over how incredibly insecure the system is inherently.
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So, so true. I love the process some corps will go through to filter out the obvious and not-so-obvious wanna-be scammers, thieves, traitors-to-be and general-purpose assholes. Unless ofc they WANT those. I consider a relatively thorough and not we-let-anyone/anything in our corp kind of approach to be a telling sign of at least a moderately competent corp that want PLAYERS and not another number/cog in their empire machine. Ofc, there are other signs to warns you about that last one, but I digress...
Off topic, the comic before the one about EVE is so very relevant to what I was doing all night... :bash:
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I just pointed out that same comic to my wife. I was like "this is so true!"
I'm a paranoid CEO and have a pretty lengthy list of hurdles and obstacles a potential employee has to overcome to even be considered. You have to be really careful with FW.
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I prefer to think of it as filtering out the weak and the casual.
Not everyone is looking to play Internet Tough Guy when they come onto an online world. Perhaps they just want to play EVE spaceships in a group with common interests.
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I'm a paranoid CEO and have a pretty lengthy list of hurdles and obstacles a potential employee has to overcome to even be considered. You have to be really careful with FW.
As I like to joke, don't trust anyone in EVE that you can't walk up to and kick/punch in the face/balls/etc. in meatspace.
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Ava and I found a good way to avoid spies/thieves is to have literally nothing at all worth stealing :D
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Kala, that's Suddenly Ninjas' approach for obvious reasons. Though I don't agree with labeling players as weak, and casual is not a negative. Corporations that think that casual is bad are often places that take "EVE is real" a little too seriously.
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Agreed Casiella.
I do my best to not make WHG into an "elites only" organization, just one that takes careful precautions to keep our community healthy. We're an RP corp, to the biggest restriction to entering is that you have to RP and we expect you to be around occasionally (we don't like absentee members).
Casual is good and as long as you contribute to the community experience of the corp, with everyone enjoying being online together, RPing and flying in space, then we're good.
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It's all well and good to wave the newbie/casual/fuckwit friendly flag around but there's no escaping the fact that if you're even remotely successful at anything in Eve, you will have something to protect. In order to protect it, you'd damn well better keep corp security in mind. And yes, casual is a negative thing whenever you try to achieve something beyond mediocrity. Sure, it goes closer towards the elitist jerk side of the spectrum, but frankly that is not a bad thing for a lot of people. Hell, even information is worth protecting. When wardeccing corps, one of the first things I do is finding the newbie character who's recently joined (and is thus less likely to be very loyal) and wave a decent amount of ISK in front of him, then just wait for the torrent of info from corp forums and elsewhere, not to mention real-time reports of corp operations he might know of.
In all my time in Eve that has rarely failed. The casuals and newbies are the weakest links in any corp they're in, unless they're alts.
Even if they are casuals, if they can't be bothered filling out a simple fucking application and go through some fairly simple checks and routines (limited APIs, interviews etc...) they're not fucking worth having anyway.
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Even if they are casuals, if they can't be bothered filling out a simple fucking application and go through some fairly simple checks and routines (limited APIs, interviews etc...) they're not fucking worth having anyway.
As someone who helped revamp RDC's recruitment standards (alongside Simca and Vampire) before being placed in charge of diplo, I second this statement. This is the new I-RED standard.
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Thanks. Now I'm quietly wondering what sort of object a "fucking application" might be, and can't wipe the smirk off my face anymore.
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Thanks. Now I'm quietly wondering what sort of object a "fucking application" might be, and can't wipe the smirk off my face anymore.
You may proceed directly to the interview. Step into my orifi.. office, pardon.
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On a more relevant note - yes, well, I agree. You can do with less, but writing up a small blurb about yourself, coughing up an API key of some description, and suffering through a short interview are more or less the baseline for corporations with significant shared assets or other operational risks. And don't be surprised if someone goes and asks your former CEOs and corpmates about why you left them, and whether you took any of the stuff in the corp hangar with you when you did..
On the flip side, during the limited times I've been responsible for that sort of thing I've noticed I have a lot of mental resistance to sacking people. Once they're in, there's a tendency to see them as part of the in-group, by yourself and others. Even if they're obviously a poor fit for the corporation. Consciously or unconsciously avoiding that kind of unpleasantenss is also part of the reason why we make people jump through hoops, I think.
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Huh. So I'm the one who's supposed to be covered in butter and subjected to psychological damage during the interview process, not the corp CEO.
I should make a note of that.
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Ava and I found a good way to avoid spies/thieves is to have literally nothing at all worth stealing :D
My favorite way to troll spies and whatnot is RP the shit out of them. If they want intel or a chance to steal anything, theyre going to have to earn it by entertaining me.
Huh. So I'm the one who's supposed to be covered in butter and subjected to psychological damage during the interview process, not the corp CEO.
I should make a note of that.
Yes, the proper use of butter is key to a well done corporation interview.
Also, make them wear loincloths IC.
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If Vieve and I ever interview, I will gallantely leave the choice of butter and such to her.
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I got an invite to my current corp about three days after I started EVE, during my Sisters of EVE arc.
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API Keys are less useful than they used to be, given that you can now limit which characters on the account show up. Thus you can hide characters from the API check, if you want.
Demanding them to create two throwaway alts to prove that it's an everything api only stops people too lazy to give their infiltration alt their own account.
And quite often we get applications from people who have month old characters and say they want to RP. There are no in game checks that can be done.
It's all a bit depressing when I dwell on it too much, but then that's probably true of most of Eve.
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Ulphus: I can't find them this second, but there are ways to check if you're being given an account or character-specific API.
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Other MMOs are not srsbsns. Internet spaceships are srsbsns.
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We didn't want those players anyway. :P
Seriously though, I can't keep friends playing long enough to finish the tutorial. Tough corp entry requirements would be the least worrisome of the retention concerns, I'd wager.
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API Keys are less useful than they used to be, given that you can now limit which characters on the account show up. Thus you can hide characters from the API check, if you want.
This is actually not entirely true. If you import the API key into EVEHQ, it will tell you if it's an account-wide API, a character API or a corporate API. If you don't see "account" API, then you've been given a limited API and they're hiding characters.
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Reading this comic... filled me with pride.
I am one of the architects of this paranoia. I am one of the reasons why corporations go as far as to assemble psych-profiles on potential recruits, or restrict their inner circles/directorships to real-life acquaintances only. With my treachery, I have made Eve a less trusting, more fearful place. My treachery has spread to all those it inspired, and it has been repeated a thousandfold.
How can one not feel godlike sometimes :)
/egomania
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Panel 1 of that strip applies to all those meaningless second-rate single-player games that masquerade as MMOs. Guilds mean nothing. They achieve nothing. They have nothing to lose and nothing to gain. It's simply a convenient social mechanic for the folks that have actually noticed that there are other people on the server they're playing on.
Still, it can be like that in Eve too. Plenty of corps full of people that just want a convenient chat window without the background noise.
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That is also a good point. While I never had the option of getting an API back in that-which-shall-not-be-named when I was a class-leader in a high-end raiding guild, the recruitment process was a gauntlet of horror for a lot of the young and hopeful victi... recruits. Hell, even after an extensive process with applications, interviews and background researches (including forum posting and former guild references and so on) we could even take the time and effort to take the piss out of them. I once had one of the hopefuls kite a World Dragon from the northern parts of a continent all the way to the southernmost zone before I even accepted him as a trial. Including going through a hostile faction's zone to do it.
Taking immense pleasure in truly tearing apart applicants for shitty grammar/spelling, poor effort in the application, lack of skill, lack of brains, lack of whatever was pretty much both in the interest of the guild and funny at the same time. So yeah, harsh standards for entry isn't exactly unique to Eve. It's so much more important in games like Eve where there's true vulnerabilities in corporate mechanics, but hardly unique to it.
The more I think about it, the more distaste I have for that first panel in the comic. Bloody casuals. Always have to be so careful when smearing them across the in-game landscape, or you'll get newbie/casual fuckwit all over yourself. Eww.
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My favorite way to troll spies and whatnot is RP the shit out of them. If they want intel or a chance to steal anything, theyre going to have to earn it by entertaining me.
So. Very. This.
I am wholly aware that my attitude is second cousin to unique in all of Eve, but if I am personally running things, I do not give a damn if every third person I hire is planning to betray and rob me so long as it is done IC. I "play to win" by playing my character to the hilt. Horrible treachery is merely fuel for the fire.
Incidentally, Malcolm, your vetting process can't be THAT strict: you let me in. Fortunately, Aria is a murderous infomorph-doppelganger-thingy of her word. I only get treacherous when treachery is in-character.
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The more I think about it, the more distaste I have for that first panel in the comic. Bloody casuals. Always have to be so careful when smearing them across the in-game landscape, or you'll get newbie/casual fuckwit all over yourself. Eww.
Scary person to keep away from.
I am wholly aware that my attitude is second cousin to unique in all of Eve, but if I am personally running things, I do not give a damn if every third person I hire is planning to betray and rob me so long as it is done IC. I "play to win" by playing my character to the hilt. Horrible treachery is merely fuel for the fire.
I love this attitude.
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We once had a CVA spy in MSCS, but he was a great roamer and killed soo many Sylph that we didn't care he was a spy. We let him stay until he eventually quit on his own to return to CVA.
After that, I recruited every spy I possibly could. As a result we got way more good fights and our killboard looked great.
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Kazzzi, you were the CVA spy in U'K :D
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:oops: :oops: :oops:
Spent more time being paranoid than playing the game sometimes...still suspected members of the directorate of treachery well into their careers. I do recall having certain activities/roles locked out to certain people based on where they had been recruited from, accent similarity with enemy etc...
Of course any show of initiative was indication that someone was a spy (Insert SF, contracted merc, Revan, Pirate, 0.0. alliance, recent enemy). Anyone who shows independent interest in being Ammatar is a spy. By default nobody wants to be Ammatar unless you sell it to them. The most reliable types are those that you build up from scratch, and integrate into the success of the corporation.
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And then they get bored, and decide to make a runner with the petty cash box, tea kitty, and everything they could grab from the corp hangar anyway?
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Anyone who shows independent interest in being Ammatar is a spy. By default nobody wants to be Ammatar unless you sell it to them.
:lol: