Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 15 Mar 2011, 11:15
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This topic is about babies and children, actually.
I noticed one issue with babies/childs in EVE RP is their tendency to be dirty plot devices. Even Anette Inhonores started out like that, was pretty lol when I think about it. "Best way to lure women in is with a cutesy daughter and boasting as an impressive single father!".
But now, I decided to develop her as her own character. Instead of being a cutesy girltrap, she's now very precocious, figuring that a life deprived of a mother and an often absent father would spawn this. She has, instead of warming up to every pretty young thing that comes along, a considerable Electra complex, ie. psychosexual competition with Seriphyn's girlfriend, and often jealousy, disliking other females in Seriphyn's life as they risk sucking attention away from herself to these lovers instead.
[spoiler](http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/7/128705800036845634.jpg)[/spoiler]
Anyway, creates far more interesting interactions; instead of some "aww cutesy" girl of Anette, she comes across as a serious challenger, as passively-hostile and intimidating as a full-grown adult, especially combined with the precocious personality. "Show me why you deserve to share my father's attention, woman".
But other times, I notice that children and babies are devices to be kidnapped in a giant game of blackmail. Or threatened, or used against teh ebil Amarrian slavers. Or maybe sometimes they're just background characters, never RPed or whatever, instead just off-handedly mentioned. Do you have any babies or children in your RP, and how are they portrayed, if at all? How do you feel/react about the pass-the-kidnapped vibe going on?
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I have Arriana, although she's 15 and has a snarky teen thing going strong. And in a lot of ways, despite the fact that Nikita is supposed to be watching out for her, Arriana ends up watching out for Nikita. Which creates a...unique interaction dynamic. There's a lot of interest toying and sibling rivalries. Arriana is constantly mocking Nikita for being into women, and Nikita is constantly trying to keep Arriana from seeing men, mostly because she considers anyone who would be interested in her inherently unsafe. Which of course Arriana uses as a way to get under her skin 'find the most threatening looking guy and flirt with him to see what she does' type thing. But overall, they have a very interesting dynamic that I wish I could explore more, but Arriana and Nikita are on the same account due to money issues, making this somewhat tricky.
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I came for the babies, I was not disappointed
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2879/1298949964729.gif)
[spoiler=On topic]So for a combustible topic, how do people feel about in-game characters being portrayed as children (characters we make and play) when canon says they're pod pilots, etc.[/spoiler]
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It's fine with me but be prepared for specific individuals to claim it's a hoax and a lie.
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It's fine with me but be prepared for specific individuals to claim it's a hoax and a lie.
:roll: Oh, that would never happen...
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It's fine with me but be prepared for specific individuals to claim it's a hoax and a lie.
:roll: Oh, that would never happen...
I wouldn't claim that, but I wouldn't proactively interact with them either. Similar to the way I'd avoid proactively interacting with a female toon who'd been married to eight different men in the last six months, had nine last names and had at least one child that some how aged years in a few months. Or a male toon that is a geneticly engineered super soldier.
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Similar to the way I'd avoid proactively interacting with a female toon who'd been married to eight different men in the last six months, had nine last names and had at least one child that some how aged years in a few months.
Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives.
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Mm, kids are fine. Capsuleer kids not so much. I can't see any organization using children for capsule training.
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I can't see any organization using children for capsule training.
Well....
What about the idea of raising a child permanently inside of a capsule so that the sensory input from the capsule was the only sensation they'd ever known? I could see some group or other trying this. I can also imagine the resulting capsuleer's misery when the results turned out not to have any inherent advantage in the long run over more typical capsuleer training.
(As a rule, having been an experimental something-or-other becomes a lot more palatable when the primary consequence has more to do with personal suffering than practical advantage. "Escaped supersoldier" fails; "failed experiment put out to pasture" has a lot of potential.)
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damn Aria that's a really good idea...and I just happen to have a capsuleer breeding program that I'm fumbling around with making suck less IC. :D
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Considering implant technology would need to be installed into the body of a pilot, the difficulty in putting one in an underdeveloped body seems...impractical and dangerous. It's not to say that it wouldn't ever be tried (you can do what you want) I just have a difficult time with the idea. Also, the adult nature of Eve makes me cringe at the idea of kids in game. :P
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Considering implant technology would need to be installed into the body of a pilot, the difficulty in putting one in an underdeveloped body seems...impractical and dangerous.
Well, let me think. The human brain is the part that is most developed at birth, so that would be a help.
... There's also always the possibility of taking advantage of consciousness transfer technology: make a succession of osteoplastic-skeletoned clones based on the original body, which is kept on life support, have the kid jump from one to another as needed, like getting new pairs of shoes.
There are other possibilities, and a body that is never meant to move around much might be put to good use-- a skull socket with "room to grow into" strikes me as an amusingly twisted concept. Something like that image of that cybernetized human baby from "The Matrix."
It's a messed-up idea, yes. You'd have to play the part very, very carefully, though, to get the proper effect, and you'd immediately sacrifice a lot of the effect if you used Inarna, since that would immediately start leveling the playing field. (Also, it would be kind of hard to believe that this person had never walked in his or her life when even the most emaciated available body starts sashaying gracefully down the corridors.)
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This could be solved with the simple application of EVE's solve-it-all, nanites.
These wee pod pilots could be engineered with an artificial organ that contains self-replicating nanites designed to work throughout the pod-child's life to gradually build up their implants in accordance with a long-term program to eventually reach a final stage as a fully-functioning pod pilot with implants to match.
And I'd find them as silly as rogue drones. But, it'd be an interesting idea.
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This thread is so babies, it's babies McIntyre.
But seriously, kids in capsules? I think that if most adults can't take the mental stress of a pod, there's no way that a kid could. Interesting idea though.
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I'm gonna have lots of babies.
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Well, the idea of kids as eggers... not so much something I see as being viable (though, I'm sure there's some backwater research that's been done on the idea).
On the original topic, Inara has a 10yr old Amarrian daughter that she adopted a few years back. Spends every Friday evening and most of Saturday when she's not in the pod with her too. The origin story is rather dark, and Jall'n was forced to 'grow up' faster than she should have (her mother was blown up when their transport ship popped, and her father was ritually sacrificed/murdered in front of her). But after some therapy, and a new very caring environment, she's adapting fairly well; still has nightmares on occasion though.
Fortunately, the chances of kidnapping are slim due to security. And since her existence is relatively little-known, not many of Inara's enemies would consider trying (and most of Inara's enemies probably don't consider Inara capable of having emotional attachments to another person because she's ebil).
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"failed experiment put out to pasture" has a lot of potential.)
Damn people getting all up in my thematic grill. I swear...
Er, never mind. Forget I said anything. Ahem.
Babies! Yeah, I've got 'em in the RP. Oh, hell yes, they've been used as plot devices. Kidnapping? Er, not so much, unless one counts Celeste's arranging to have her pregnant original body 'misplaced' so no one would find out about her son.
He's one and a half years old now. She's doing what she can to ensure he grows up to have a comfortable normal life, despite his zombie sisters, his psychotic brother-in-law (as opposed to the 'good' brother-in-law, who's just a scruffy murderous thug) and her own questionable taste in men.
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I'm gonna have lots of babies.
:eek:
For my part, I wonder what happened to Nikilaiki's daughter. I started that storyline so long ago that I nearly forgot about it. :| Why the idea of little hellgremlin babies brought that up, I have no idea.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
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I'm gonna have lots of babies.
You should start a private boarding school for the children of capsuleers. C'mon, who wouldn't trust Uncle Istvaan to keep their little darlings safe and educate them on the cutthroat ways of capsuleer society?
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As a rule, having been an experimental something-or-other becomes a lot more palatable when the primary consequence has more to do with personal suffering than practical advantage. "Escaped supersoldier" fails; "failed experiment put out to pasture" has a lot of potential.
And this is, in a nutshell. the entire origin of Shin. Yes, her clade was genetically engineered. No, it has not brought them anything but grief.
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I'm gonna have lots of babies.
:eek:
For my part, I wonder what happened to Nikilaiki's daughter. I started that storyline so long ago that I nearly forgot about it. :| Why the idea of little hellgremlin babies brought that up, I have no idea.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
that might interesting to look into once you come back to eve again
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>.>
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We have an interesting RP plot going on at the Keep with Mitara pregnant and Aldrith emo raging over it because Mitara will not stop flying. Pretty interesting to watch play out.
Mostly children seem to be background in the RPs I've been involved in. I can't imagine a bunch of combat pilots playing mommy and daddy, especially capsuleers. It'd be too much of a risk to be pregnant and flying, what if you get podded? And Shalee thinks it is selfish to be pregnant and have children, that it would be cruel to watch your children grow older than you. And their children, and so on.
I have rped with Annette in the past, I really do love how Seri plays the character. Good stuff, very believable.
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The idea of a pregnant capsuleer is weird to me. I can't fathom why a sane person would want their child to come to term in womb of a reanimated cadaver, and then expose it high Gs, extreme temperatures and the odd radiation burst when artificial wombs are available.
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Man, Mitty is getting pummeled ingame and out :p
Can some RL mothers come to her defense of not wanting to be separated from her child??? She had to jump clone not too long ago and it was the worst 24 hours of her life.
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Man, Mitty is getting pummeled ingame and out :p
Can some RL mothers come to her defense of not wanting to be separated from her child??? She had to jump clone not too long ago and it was the worst 24 hours of her life.
Oh, people get that. They just want her to park her ass planetside for nine months. :P
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Man, Mitty is getting pummeled ingame and out :p
Can some RL mothers come to her defense of not wanting to be separated from her child??? She had to jump clone not too long ago and it was the worst 24 hours of her life.
Oh, people get that. They just want her to park her ass planetside for nine months. :P
But.... fanatic Amarr....
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Man, Mitty is getting pummeled ingame and out :p
Can some RL mothers come to her defense of not wanting to be separated from her child??? She had to jump clone not too long ago and it was the worst 24 hours of her life.
Oh, people get that. They just want her to park her ass planetside for nine months. :P
But.... fanatic Amarr....
*puts on her RL mother hat*
There have been fanatic Amarr for hundreds of years. A single combat pilot isn't going to change that over the course of nine measly months of her allegedly eternal life. ;)
Same goes for heathen tribals.
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Man, Mitty is getting pummeled ingame and out :p
Can some RL mothers come to her defense of not wanting to be separated from her child??? She had to jump clone not too long ago and it was the worst 24 hours of her life.
Oh, people get that. They just want her to park her ass planetside for nine months. :P
But.... fanatic Amarr....
So find a way to rationalize the fact that every time she undocks, she risks losing the child. And make sure it’s a good enough rationalization that it’ll still hold up if she actually does end up hitting a smartbomb camp, like… shoot, which dame alt was it? Hit a smartbomb camp, got podded, responded by saying it was the will of the red god and going and getting pregnant again.
Or, you know, figure that it’ll give you a lovely excuse to RP being utterly and completely heartbroken in the event that something bad happens, maybe throw in a little psychosis, blame her child’s death on her devotion to the empire and join the blooders, whatever.
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:cry:
/me goes off to watch Dr. Adad’s Wild Time all by herself.
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I had a friend that justified their two year absence by having a child. It's a nice plot mechanism when employed properly.
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So find a way to rationalize the fact that every time she undocks, she risks losing the child. And make sure it’s a good enough rationalization that it’ll still hold up if she actually does end up hitting a smartbomb camp, like… shoot, which dame alt was it? Hit a smartbomb camp, got podded, responded by saying it was the will of the red god and going and getting pregnant again.
Or, you know, figure that it’ll give you a lovely excuse to RP being utterly and completely heartbroken in the event that something bad happens, maybe throw in a little psychosis, blame her child’s death on her devotion to the empire and join the blooders, whatever.
Of course she knows there is a risk, but duty to God and Empire trumps all. There is such a small number of capsuleers dedicated to defending the Empire, she sees it as an unforgivable sin to sit out on the sidelines for so long. She is totally baffled by the lack of support of her fellow loyalists.
The purpose of her pregnancy was not to supply a device for drama, but in the end to reinforce Aldy and Mit being a 'normal married couple', as much as capsuleers can be anyway. Had I known it was going to turn into such a sticking point, I may have reconsidered. As it stands though, it gives me an opportunity to show what I think the dedication and sacrifice a loyal, faithful, capsuleer must show.
If something goes south, of course it will be painful for her, but she will continue on. The chance of Mitty going Blooder is nil.
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Of course she knows there is a risk, but duty to God and Empire trumps all. There is such a small number of capsuleers dedicated to defending the Empire, she sees it as an unforgivable sin to sit out on the sidelines for so long. She is totally baffled by the lack of support of her fellow loyalists.
The purpose of her pregnancy was not to supply a device for drama, but in the end to reinforce Aldy and Mit being a 'normal married couple', as much as capsuleers can be anyway. Had I known it was going to turn into such a sticking point, I may have reconsidered. As it stands though, it gives me an opportunity to show what I think the dedication and sacrifice a loyal, faithful, capsuleer must show.
If something goes south, of course it will be painful for her, but she will continue on. The chance of Mitty going Blooder is nil.
Then I don’t see an issue, so long as she’s comfortable with the risk she’s taking. I suppose capsuleers that are in frequent combat are used to seeing their crews die frequently, etc.
As for joining the blooders, that was just another random idea, I tend to have those a lot :)
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Couldnt you just jump clone to a unprego clone and let the other sit safely in high sec while the med bay keeps the body healthy and the baby?
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There was an extremely entertaining culture-clash RP between Seriphyn and Alica Wildfire in the Last Gate over a year ago. Seriphyn was absolutely bollocking Alica for being pregnant and still fighting for the TLF, whereas she was adamant that the people of Minmatar came first, not her own body or child.
This may be a Western thing, or political-correctness. Let's take Libya; mothers are blessing their grown, male children as they go to fight in the rebels. Reluctantly, of course, they don't want any harm to come to their child, but they know the "bigger picture".
If that happened in the UK? The mothers would be incensed, because this whole thing of "no harm" to come to you. "No, no! Absolutely not! You cannot fight to remove the tyrannical regime that's killing hundreds of our people. What happens if you DIE or get INJURED?"
In this sense, and there are hints in PF about Gallente obsession with health, safety and security, I feel, that being bollocked for doing what Mitara is doing is a thoroughly Gallente/Western thing. Individualistic and self-absorbed. If there is a omnipotent being in the picture, then the baby is really secondary to that. Yeah, God doesn't exist apparently :P but to Amarrians, the concept of God is a very real and present thing.
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Couldnt you just jump clone to a unprego clone and let the other sit safely in high sec while the med bay keeps the body healthy and the baby?
She could yes, but she is also a woman who wants the experience of becoming a mother, and it's her responsibility to her husband and child to be as good a mother as she can. This duty is the lesser to that of the Empire, but it's still there. Tubing or somehow surrogating the pregnancy is something the Caldari would do, those godless ISK seekers ;)
Seriphyn nailed it I think.
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Seri, with respect, I think that your statement about mothers and grown children might need additional historical context. Mothers frequently don't want to see their sons go to war, but tearfully support it when the threat is large enough. I don't doubt that some mums cried before Normandy or Hastings, but accepted and blessed what they felt needed to happen.
Exceptions will exist, of course, but I don't know whether the terms "conscientious objector" and "nonviolent movement" exist in the Amarr Empire.
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Couldnt you just jump clone to a unprego clone and let the other sit safely in high sec while the med bay keeps the body healthy and the baby?
She could yes, but she is also a woman who wants the experience of becoming a mother, and it's her responsibility to her husband and child to be as good a mother as she can. This duty is the lesser to that of the Empire, but it's still there. Tubing or somehow surrogating the pregnancy is something the Caldari would do, those godless ISK seekers ;)
Seriphyn nailed it I think.
Thats one way of perceiving it. Another would be your fullfilling Gods will without needlessly sacrificing one of his future children. Jump clone technology will allow you to jump back into the prego corpse when your not fighting to experience all the wonders of pregnacy.
Your baby will still experience it's mothers heart beat and breathing. You can create prerecorded conversations that can play to allow the child to famaliarize itself with your voice.
Also, despite you being a capsuleer, you are loyal to Amarr, and im confident, 100%, that Amarr Navy doesnt send it's prego women into the front lines.
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She could yes, but she is also a woman who wants the experience of becoming a mother, and it's her responsibility to her husband and child to be as good a mother as she can. This duty is the lesser to that of the Empire, but it's still there. Tubing or somehow surrogating the pregnancy is something the Caldari would do, those godless ISK seekers ;)
Seriphyn nailed it I think.
So I’m going to preface this by saying that OOC I really don’t care one way or the other, it’s RP, have fun, go nuts, do stupid irrational shit – lord knows my characters do so a regular basis.
That said, I can’t pass up actual, logical and thoughtful debate of an interesting dilemma. My take at the moment: In her efforts to ‘be the best mother she can,’ Mitara is risking not becoming a mother at all.
There are ways, as Invel pointed out, to do a fine job for the child without risking its life. You’ve already concluded that service to Amarr > protecting life of child, but we’ve found a way around that one. That leaves the desire to be a good mother, and to experience motherhood to its fullest. Being a good mother and unnecessarily risking the child’s life on a daily basis seems contradictory in light of the alternatives.
That leaves Mitara risking her child’s life just so that she can experience being pregnant. Were I someone who cared for the child’s life IC ( like maybe the father), yeah, I’d be jumping down her throat. Fortunately, I’m not, so I’ll leave that to Aldy.
Again, it’s just RP, have fun.
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If she were only to patrol once in a while, I'd agree, Jump Cloning would be an option. However, Mitty is out there pretty much every night, 24 hour cool down on JCing kills that idea.
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If she were only to patrol once in a while, I'd agree, Jump Cloning would be an option. However, Mitty is out there pretty much every night, 24 hour cool down on JCing kills that idea.
Im going to remove that child from your womb and save it.
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If she were only to patrol once in a while, I'd agree, Jump Cloning would be an option. However, Mitty is out there pretty much every night, 24 hour cool down on JCing kills that idea.
Im going to remove that child from your womb and save it.
You'll have to beat Math'ra to it....
/me loads the pulsar shotgun
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Just because it's funny:
(3:43:21 PM) Mitara Newelle: what in the world is amarr coming to ??
(3:43:35 PM) Mitara Newelle: bunch of pansy baby thieves.
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I agree Mitty. Do it Laerise style and be a mommy-thief, way more efficient that way. (http://'http://www.sanmatari.com/viewtopic.php?t=1727') :yar:
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it's her responsibility to her husband and child to be as good a mother as she can.
Play your toon how you want, but If my wife tried to expose my child to that kind of danger needlessly I wouldn't consider her a good mother to my child.
BIRTH DEFECTS DUE TO RADIATION
This can be disturbing.
[spoiler]
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bf_PG4SAYfU/R8tcrQvMUFI/AAAAAAAAEOo/3T-hqIrC5ew/s1600-h/1.jpg
http://www.uruknet.biz/pic.php?f=du-baby20.jpeg[/spoiler]
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Couldnt you just jump clone to a unprego clone and let the other sit safely in high sec while the med bay keeps the body healthy and the baby?
Or a pregnant capsuleer, if she was loath to put her baby into a vat or a stasis chamber, could take the illegal route of having two versions of herself active. It's all the fun of pregnancy combined with the convenience of vat growth, along with the potential added spice of eventually having to fight oneself over the custody of the child.*
*Assuming one of them doesn't kill the other immediately after the baby's born.**
**Or the father of the child doesn't think one of them's nicer, and decides to get rid of the one he doesn't like/hide the kid and the one he does like.
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Or a pregnant capsuleer, if she was loath to put her baby into a vat or a stasis chamber, could take the illegal route of having two versions of herself active.
Oh dear lord, don't give her any ideas, it's us who'll have to pay!
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Or a pregnant capsuleer, if she was loath to put her baby into a vat or a stasis chamber, could take the illegal route of having two versions of herself active.
Oh dear lord, don't give her any ideas, it's us who'll have to pay!
/me giggles at the fleet of Mittys storming the Keep :lol:
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Or a pregnant capsuleer, if she was loath to put her baby into a vat or a stasis chamber, could take the illegal route of having two versions of herself active.
Oh dear lord, don't give her any ideas, it's us who'll have to pay!
The dark powers are always happy to help. :)