Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Silas Vitalia on 05 Nov 2013, 12:15
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--Incoming Bittervet, all hands to battle stations--
Is anyone else....EVE burnt out these days?
I feel like the amounts of RP butthurt and genuine caustic attitudes from many players, combined with the last few years of not-expansions and lack of content have been slowly but surely draining my interest, to the point I'm using my account more like an instant messenger chat program with occasional pvp than the all-immersive experience it once was for me.
What I'm having difficulty determining in an objective way, is whether my memories of things 'how they used to be' years ago were actually better than they are now, or if bittervet syndrome has taken hold in a scary and profound way.
I realize my particular interests put me in an extremely small minority of eve players (RP, lore, etc). I just feel like the current administration and direction of the game development just isn't interested in the things I'm interested in. I remember strings of expansions where my and other players reactions were 'holy crap that looks cool! Look at all that new shit! Neat!' and the last few years has been more 'hey look at all the new balance iterations, x thing is less broken now'
I'm trying really hard not to be jaded but I'm not doing a very good job of succeeding lately. Playing this game for what is probably on average daily for the last 7 or 8 years I'm feeling incredibly 'meh' right now about justifying further investment of RL time and resources.
Am I right about shit actually being better and more interesting and more dynamic years past?
Or do I need to up my dosage of HTFU and do other things in game?
Moderator note I will happily accept HTFU or YDIW responses.
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(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/18200000/Supernatural-Hugs-supernatural-18271734-300-169.gif)
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The chocolate icing of every MMO comes off eventually, and eventually, people get fucking tired of cake.
Usually best to play other things in between and not focus so heavily on one game.
Communities also change, or in some ways, 'refuse to change' to the point that sometimes things get annoying.
"HTFU"ing is what leads to bittervets. See, that's the thing. They're bitter, caustic, miserable, take pleasure in being total dicks to everyone they run into, but still pay to play EVE. This makes them positive contributors.
You're better off, if you're feeling Meh, deciding who do you play a game for? Do you play it for the people around you be be exposed to you, or do you play it for your own enjoyment?
This has all gotta be bits of similar speeches you've heard before. No game is any different in that respect.
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I might be logged into EVE whenever I'm awake and/or at my computer, but I'm rarely actually sitting there playing EVE the whole time. Everyone needs breaks sometimes. I've been playing a lot of STO with Ava, Ana, Karm, Vince and a few others for a couple months now, which is the primary source of my being AFK, though sometimes I'm playing other stuff. Or watching movies.
I'm also a little burned out and sort of in self-imposed limbo, myself - I've got a bunch of stuff to write before I can really get back into RPing, and I have the problem of easily being able to visualize exactly what I want to do in my head but getting those images (and there are some seriously pretty moving images in there at times, lemme tell you) into words on paper or notepad or w/e is extremely difficult for me and always has been something I struggle with. Hence Morwen having been extremely silent for the last two weeks beyond the obvious reasons.
I think the next couple expansions are more geared toward my gameplay priorities than any of the other ones have been in the past, save Apocrypha and the current Odyssey, so I'm not feeling too pessimistic about the direction CCP is going.
Not going to disagree with the sentiment that lowsec is the redheaded stepchild that's always being beaten to a pulp by its siblings, though.
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For me, it's a cycle of interest and lack of interest. I don't know if RP was better years past because I wasn't around.
I'll actually say that the lore/setting got a great deal of love this year with the fall of Heth and the rise of Federation - Republic tensions. Things have slowed down and those of us in the larger Amarr bloc weren't really given something to play with this year, though I appreciated the event actor showing up for the PIE ball.
And yes, lowsec is a red-headed stepchild.
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You know, I have pretty much stopped finding an interesting in the actual game for 3-4 years now, after I left FW. Which means I still enjoyed it maybe 4 years or so, which is already something. On my first MMO, which was SWG, I got fed up of the (nonsensical) gameplay past a few months. I still stayed ingame for 3-4 years after just because of RP and what we were able to do with the little community I was into. And we did awesome things.
And like all the things, we had a golden age, and then decline.
Tbh they would need to introduce a lot of changes in the game for me to care again about it. But I don't play for that anyway. It would be nice to have something else to do again, but RP is enough by me. The only issue I have is when I don't have any RP solutions and when it's mostly dead. This is when I seriously consider quitting.
So I don't really think i'm in your position regardless. If people are caustic, i'm not sure it's because of that tbh. People are caustic because there are plenty of unsolved issues that stand between them. Issues that people do not want to speak about or hear about because they can't accept them. Most people prefer to sit on their privileges when they have acquired them, and when it stomps on other people fun or life in the community, they will do whatever they can to beat them to death out of selfishness.
I have seen that on other MMOs, but usually they tend to explode pretty fast and communities eventually collapse. Here it is not the case thanks to a strong core of people sharing good RP values, an overall more mature group, and a good environment with similar ideals. But one can't suppress feuds between people that will inevitably appear, and when people do not want to face them out of fear to see something shattering, or just out of fear of losing their privileges, things start to get insidious and stay for ages rotting again and again until the bitterness starts to really smell.
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I get that completely. I've played WoW pretty much consistently since launch, and that's a game with a LOT more variety than EVE. I think it's kind of amazing EVE has stayed as alive as it has.
That said, it's a game that plays up the PVP in nearly every aspect of the endgame and promotes corporate politics as its claim to fame. Which to us who aren't in love with it is a bit like taking a bunch of the worst parts of cliquishness we hated in high school and then making sure those cliques have every opportunity to screw with each other. It breeds a sort of hostility and caustic bile that seeps into nearly everything in the game. I've definitely noticed that everything turns into a fight, even in the RP community, but that's just because of the sort of atmosphere the game puts together.
I'd say you need another game for a while. Take a break from the fighting. Play a completely different game, maybe even not an MMO if you want to sort of relax IRL a bit. If you do take up a different MMO, take up something that doesn't play up the PVP so much. Give yourself an opportunity to chill and not have to fight over every little thing so much.
Then again, sometimes I just stop playing the game and take some time to RP. That's not so bad. It's probably harder in EVE since it's not like you can disembark and just soak up some random RP at a backwater station the way you can in other games that give half a damn about RP. There's nothing wrong with just RPing, though, for a while.
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Confirming another partially-burnt-out spaceships-chatbox-user.
I've been bouncing around between a few different games, and still I have trouble pushing myself to undock in EVE anymore. At least some of it has to do with a certain someone deciding to make CCP throw a wet blanket over everything RP a few weeks back, but it's even more than that: I can simply no longer find a group in EVE that fully matches my interests; no such groups look to be appearing in the near future, and my own experiences with leadership have shown me that I am shit at motivating a corp to do stuff so starting something isn't likely either.
We all know EVE - like most other MMOs - is about the community. The RP community is about all I've got left in EVE, and that doesn't drive me to undock and make fights - only to make :words:.
Regarding expansions, in some ways I am enormously glad to see CCP going back and fixing up some old stuff. A lot of these little things needed to be fixed, and the game is much better with them as such. However, I agree, 'expansions' should not solely be fixes.
At first I thought it was because EVE had somehow evolved itself into its final stage - reached its own endgame. But lately I've been realizing that I was partly wrong - it is not the game, but the community meta that has evolved into an endgame state (especially with respect to communication). How that will shift, I'm not exactly sure.
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I have been there with EVE before.
I will say that its actually better than it was three or four years ago. Having not played in the intervening years makes that a bit easier to see.
TonyG being gone is a huge benefit. The storyline is moving, even if its not perfect.
The t1 hull changes are phenomenal. PvP is incredibly varied compared to what it used to be.
There is a relatively large amount of content to play. I am loving FW and don't plan on leaving it, but you have wormholes, incursions, general low sec, 0.0, FW, high sec stuff and so on. That is a huge amount of types of content to pick from.
The community seems to be in a somewhat odd place. RP communities have balkanized quite a bit, which is both good and bad. This is in part because of the amount of added content to the game. All RP effort used to go to a very small number of activities, that isn't really true anymore. Still, the RP channels are far far more active than I remember from three years ago. And the amount of RP-light people is much higher than it was a few years back.
Really though, EVE has never really worked if you want CCP to give you content. It has always rewarded setting your own goals and direction and finding a community to accomplish those goals with. This is both the best thing about EVE and the worst. Most of the time I see people (including myself) burning out on EVE it is because they either set goals that they could not achieve or they accomplished their goals and failed to set new ones to replace them.
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I, personally, have been in the ingame news several times, and had a direct and pivotal role in the development of a major expansion. (no really, I did)
Some things are better, some things are worse.
There is however, a tendency to accumulate disappointments, which saps enjoyment.
The more you play, the more people you encounter, that will have different views about all sorts of things. And eventually, it becomes "Oh, it's this again". Familiarity breeds contempt, and all that.
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Beyond what everyone else has offered Silas, it might be worthwhile pointing out an obvious but sometimes overlooked fact: as you get older your priorities change.
Maybe gaming, either EVE specific or in general, doesn't have the same shine to it as it once did because other things in your life have become more important.
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Right now I still enjoy logging in with my Pyre bros and having a roam. I'm not sure I can do eight hour roams and, I must admit, RP seems harder and harder these days - although I sink a lot of time into it.
I just don't RP with the same variety of people that I used to, and I don't know why... :(
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I started playing EVE the week before Incarna came out. Right as I was starting, wide-eyed in this amazing game people were quitting over the whole "Greed" debacle or railing against the introduction of Avatars and CQ's. For me it was irrelevant, a whole new universe had opened up to me replete with it's own history of both NPC and PC interaction to delve into. It took me awhile to really get into the RP side of things beyond reading about it but from day one I was fascinated by the old stories and the fact that some number of the players from days of yore were still here and active. It has been a source of constant sadness how few of them are truly interacting with the game today and how RP in general has so little effect on the day to day of most of the game.
I think that the older players like yourself are an immeasurably valuable thing for us younger players. Not only do you contain the knowledge of what actually happened in the past you contain within your character histories the gravitas necessary to be our leaders and advisors. You Silas should be the head of a Blooder Alliance reaving through the stars not a two man corp pegged onto some silly named pvp alliance that could give a shit about "lolRP". Esna, you should be part of Mithra's Society or PIE or CVA or find some upstart young Amarr roleplayer with the time you do not have and teach him how to grow and be successful. We should be taking this game back from the mechanistic boring players, not just reacting to them as if they own EVE and it's future. When I think about RP in this game what sticks with me is that quote from the "Good RP Logs" thread where Graelyn recounts his "name". That is fucking awesome. Every once in awhile I go back and read it and think about how someday I too will be able to list my accomplishments.
I get that it is hard sometimes to have the time and put in the effort, like Merdanath was posting the other day. I tried to run my own alliance and create my own little slice but hit the brick wall of RL issues vs Executor/CEO. When it failed I had a choice, join some non-RPers and go farm C5's, make my own little 1-man corp and be sad and lonely or find a Corp that was close enough to what I liked and wanted to do and help them. I went with option number three and other than my steadfast desire to never wear aviator shades it has been a blast. Still don't have a ton of time to play but when I do I get the interaction I desire and contribute how I can to Corp goals. Someday I will have more time and will put any of the dozen of schemes I craft weekly into play.
Don't be discouraged. You are an awesome part of New Eden. I want to read of your exploits for years to come.
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I'm not tired of Eve. I've gotten irritated enough to threaten quitting once (monocle gate) and unsub, but I'm not tired of it. When I get tired of one facet, I try something new, or try doing it harder, like missioning in hostile null. If I get tired of rp chat and the boards, I shut up about it for a while. But there are so many things to do, I can rotate between them.
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Or do I need to up my dosage of HTFU and do other things in game?
This really. I was pretty much ready to quite before I came out to wormhole space. I'd done the facwar thing, I'd been a lowsec pirate, I'd been part of nullblobs, I'd done highsec wardecs, heists, scams, there's very little I haven't tried. I came out to wormhole space and I feel like it completely reinvigorated my enjoyment of the game, and I'm definitely having more fun now then I was ever having in the past. So if you're not having fun, try something different.
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Right now I still enjoy logging in with my Pyre bros and having a roam. I'm not sure I can do eight hour roams and, I must admit, RP seems harder and harder these days - although I sink a lot of time into it.
I just don't RP with the same variety of people that I used to, and I don't know why... :(
As a relatively new outsider, it's probably EVE's forcible factionalism. It seems like people are either forced to make UAD characters and then fight tooth and nail for a few quirks, or be prepared to turn most of their RP time into a fight. It's just the nature of the players that the game caters to and CCP's way of handling, or not handling, lore.
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I was going to counterpoint you, then I realized fighting is pretty much synonymous with RP for me.
Just another form of pvp really.
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I've timed out a couple of times in the past. Mostly RL stuff getting in the way and lack of stability.
But I'm starting to fix RL and slowly rebuilt my love for the game. No idea how to RP Meb disappearing for so long, but it's good, because a lot of the new lot are now struggling to figure her out, while the old ones ("The Old Ones") are in certain places.
I quite enjoyed the quiet time with Moira, learning the ropes of FW from a frig/dessie perspective. They are an excellent bunch and it allowed me the ability to hop in when I could. I've just recently decided to go find someone to remind me of what Meb and I are good at. I didn't think I'd find camaraderie as good as Veto or some of the other past corps again, but it's amazing what you find when you look around and consider new avenues. It's gutting there isn't more Sani Sabik orientated corps around atm. I feel I've semi-abandoned them for a while now, but I try to keep Meb orientated and supportive of those, like yourself, who are vocal and representative. But as corps go, I think I hit gold with TS-F on soooooo many levels. It took a little look to see where Meb was and where she could be to find a perfect group that has now given me the amazing amount of energy to actually crash headlong back into the game again on all fronts, including RP. Hell, Mebs even posted in the Summit channel and IGS for the first time in years!
I really hope you find good direction Silas. To Meb, you're a pillar of Sani Sabik and an excellent refined image of the elite. I'll always support you OOC too and I've heard from a little bird that Sabbott has come back and taken the reigns of Blood Inquisition, if you're interested... ;)
But for Meb and myself, we've found our new home for now :cube:
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Am I right about shit actually being better and more interesting and more dynamic years past?
It may be that the interactions themselves have become more familiar than you would like. Dynamics that seemed fresh years ago might dry up over time, not because they have gotten any worse but because they haven't changed very much. The RP springing from those dynamics might even have been better because fewer people that you interact with were so jaded about them.
The Amarr / Minmatar conflict, for example, isn't likely to end any time soon, and the arguments between the sides have crossed the same ground until they've worn deep grooves in the floorboards.
Then, also, Silas, the role you've adopted for your character seems (upon very superficial interaction) to badly want a mustache so she can twirl it. Yun Hee's powerfully negative, contempt-laden reactions are not mine, but Silas the character does seem as though she's been less interested in even power than she is in what she can get away with.
If that's a satisfying role (or semblance of a role, if my read is more of a mask than a reality), great. If not ... you may consider a role that doesn't cast Silas as an unambiguous, orphan-detonating villain. I've long found some of the most satisfying RP to be that which explores some of the darker shades of gray, but which remains in the domain of the antihero (admirable intent, on some level; highly questionable methods and outcome) rather than the out-and-out monster.
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--Incoming Bittervet, all hands to battle stations--
Is anyone else....EVE burnt out these days?
I feel like the amounts of RP butthurt and genuine caustic attitudes from many players, combined with the last few years of not-expansions and lack of content have been slowly but surely draining my interest, to the point I'm using my account more like an instant messenger chat program with occasional pvp than the all-immersive experience it once was for me.
What I'm having difficulty determining in an objective way, is whether my memories of things 'how they used to be' years ago were actually better than they are now, or if bittervet syndrome has taken hold in a scary and profound way.
I realize my particular interests put me in an extremely small minority of eve players (RP, lore, etc). I just feel like the current administration and direction of the game development just isn't interested in the things I'm interested in. I remember strings of expansions where my and other players reactions were 'holy crap that looks cool! Look at all that new shit! Neat!' and the last few years has been more 'hey look at all the new balance iterations, x thing is less broken now'
I'm trying really hard not to be jaded but I'm not doing a very good job of succeeding lately. Playing this game for what is probably on average daily for the last 7 or 8 years I'm feeling incredibly 'meh' right now about justifying further investment of RL time and resources.
Am I right about shit actually being better and more interesting and more dynamic years past?
Or do I need to up my dosage of HTFU and do other things in game?
Moderator note I will happily accept HTFU or YDIW responses.
Welcome to my world, for the most part. My issue is not that "was things really better before" but more "things were better AND worse before".
In the "old days" the game was worse. The game itself has steadily improved, today it's likely as well as it has ever been. Graphics improve, UI improves, bugs are killed off, balance is balancing (or trying at least) things get added, even if slowly and so on. So there is little wrong with EVE as a game.
The player-base on the other hand is on average, horrible in comparison to how it was earlier. This is also combined with the game's age. Out of interest in not being modded and perma-banned I will leave my opinion on the player-base at this, but in short, the game's age, gradual evolution in player-base mentality combined with the game-engine's evolution has led us to some rather ugly truths and facts of life in today's EVE that is, in short, driving me off.
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I started playing EVE the week before Incarna came out. Right as I was starting, wide-eyed in this amazing game people were quitting over the whole "Greed" debacle or railing against the introduction of Avatars and CQ's. For me it was irrelevant, a whole new universe had opened up to me replete with it's own history of both NPC and PC interaction to delve into. It took me awhile to really get into the RP side of things beyond reading about it but from day one I was fascinated by the old stories and the fact that some number of the players from days of yore were still here and active. It has been a source of constant sadness how few of them are truly interacting with the game today and how RP in general has so little effect on the day to day of most of the game.
I think that the older players like yourself are an immeasurably valuable thing for us younger players. Not only do you contain the knowledge of what actually happened in the past you contain within your character histories the gravitas necessary to be our leaders and advisors. You Silas should be the head of a Blooder Alliance reaving through the stars not a two man corp pegged onto some silly named pvp alliance that could give a shit about "lolRP". Esna, you should be part of Mithra's Society or PIE or CVA or find some upstart young Amarr roleplayer with the time you do not have and teach him how to grow and be successful. We should be taking this game back from the mechanistic boring players, not just reacting to them as if they own EVE and it's future. When I think about RP in this game what sticks with me is that quote from the "Good RP Logs" thread where Graelyn recounts his "name". That is fucking awesome. Every once in awhile I go back and read it and think about how someday I too will be able to list my accomplishments.
I get that it is hard sometimes to have the time and put in the effort, like Merdanath was posting the other day. I tried to run my own alliance and create my own little slice but hit the brick wall of RL issues vs Executor/CEO. When it failed I had a choice, join some non-RPers and go farm C5's, make my own little 1-man corp and be sad and lonely or find a Corp that was close enough to what I liked and wanted to do and help them. I went with option number three and other than my steadfast desire to never wear aviator shades it has been a blast. Still don't have a ton of time to play but when I do I get the interaction I desire and contribute how I can to Corp goals. Someday I will have more time and will put any of the dozen of schemes I craft weekly into play.
Don't be discouraged. You are an awesome part of New Eden. I want to read of your exploits for years to come.
The thing is from experience, most players reach their golden age at 1-2 years of age, to 3-4 years. I would say most of them would be between 2-4 years of play. Past that, they usually end up into retirement.
My case for example, even if I have been a rather quiet element I have still left my mark here and there in the universe. I started playing late 2006 (Red Moon Rising -> Revelations), and joined Providence 6 months later only looking for RP, and there was that huge RP conflict for the control of Providence between CVA and UshraKhan. I fortunately picked up the good side and saw the last months of victory. Which was my nullsec era, and it was mostly free from cap warfare since barely a few titans existed ingame and motherhsips were utter shit. And capitals a lot rarer overall. Doctrines were a lot more interesting, with ships of the line formations and support.
Got into Aegis Militia, that was not at its best, and eventually was part of the executorship of the alliance for a bit of time because the core corp AMC totally burned out after yet another internal sabotage. So, I was barely 1 year old, and we had to learn fast, but we did and did a decent job, until my own RP corp that I create with a friend collapsed and we had to retire. I completely suck at recruiting, motivating people, and organizing things. I am a mediocre HR manager when it comes to players, but better at high up decisions.
I then fled into Solitude and got into a gallente loyalist corp fighting against piracy with the goal to make the region safe. Being one of the few with actual pvp experience and more importantly, FC experience (but that was a lot more theoretical than a lot of practice...), I took the lead of most operations against the local pirate alliance (fear alliance) that was 5 times bigger than our corp. We beat them to death since they were surprisingly bad at pvp. The only good corp of that alliance got disgusted of their buddies and they collapsed. I was barely 2 years old in the game, this was in 2008 iirc, and we enjoyed a safe Solitude for a while when the corp decided to stop being RP coherent and fuck up in Syndicate, so I left with OOC drama behind. Low sec era.
That's basically where ended my leadership. After a while you tend to want something more tranquil and less stressful. You don't have the energy anymore to spend into that kind of things. I joined FW even if I was not really interested in it, invited by a RPer that insisted that I came into his corp. I then enjoyed it and created a second attempt at a RP corp. Since I suck at that, it almost worked but collapsed and I joined KotMC, probably the last corp where I spend more than a year as an (almost) founding member doing FW stuff and all, but without any real leadership position. I may have accepted one if offered, but I don't think I really wanted one... FW low sec era.
Then its a few years of retirement.
I have tried most things in Eve, pve missions, wormholes, incursions, exploration sites, epic arcs (3 of them), pvp in low sec, FW and nullsec including blob warfare in CVA/AM wars against Bob and Triumvirate, racing, mining when I began, PI, industry (including tech 2), trading, high sec various RP war decs... Maybe the only thing I havent tried out of RP constraints is pure piracy... There is a time where its seriously feels the same no matter what you do. RP, however, tends a lot less do feel that way, fortunately.
There is also an issue with CCP, that was one of the main griefs roleplayers had against the company back in 2007-2009. We tended to accuse them of constantly keeping players/gameplay completely separate from the NPC universe. We felt that capsuleers were completely disconnected from the world except doing their own vapid stuff in nullsec. Everything when it comes to capsuleers is disconnected, we use our own stargates, own docking pads, we never see any civilian traffic bar a few scarce NPC industrials in stations, but that also translated itself into the way that players were totally kept separate from the lore and the world. We had regular news like it's again the case today (awesome), but we were only able to comment them. There was also a reason for that : Aurora turned into a fucking disaster, and I came into the game just after it happened in 2005-2006.
So roleplayers had still a good weight in the community back in the days and a lot of people were asking for a factional warfare, that only came 3 years later with TEA and that we used to applaud the first months and then totally loathe for what it did to RP. But eventually, the only times where we truly felt we were doing something was when we were awarded the Kourmonen decoration for the Amarr militia when it was liberated (and that I missed -_-), and when the Caldari won the war and had a shiny unique medal in a similar fashion, and where conquered systems were auctioned to all the megas.
Then I realized that introducing political mechanisms ingame means that they will remain that way for a long time, if not forever, since it's gameplay content. We can not get rid of FW, and so, the world can not truly evolve. We can not get rid of incursion mechanisms, so the world is stuck in an endless sansha incursion... If they truly wanted to bring dynamism, they would have made a much more inclusive system where system sovereignty can change and imply a lot more things in the lore, where every faction can war dec the other one depending on circumstances, and where every faction risk radical changes to have a living world. Well, we maybe despised what Heth did to the State lore for example, but that was a change, maybe badly executed, maybe of poor form, but it was a change. I for one also like the black eagle / Roden change in the Federation, since it shows that the faction can evolve. Same for Jamyl, even if I loathe the character. And same for Shakor, even if he is truly killing the republic and looking like an idiot in the process (much like Heth).
The problem is that a lot of roleplayers will cry to death when their beloved faction is harmed. Sometimes with reason because it's silly or just cheesy, but more generally, people will behave like good little frenchmen and complain for everything happening to their faction. Change is good. But due to that aspect, most people and CCP for other reasons are not really willing to mess with that unchanging lore tapestry like they tried to do in TEA considering the fuss it created. TEA is to the lore a little like what Incarna was to gameplay. A good idea and a wonderful concept that got so badly implemented that it created an uproar. Hell, they could very well make the Amarr drop slavery all together for what it's worth. After all they more or less solved the Caldari Prime issue, which makes the Caldari and Gallente almost without an incentive to fight... They could very well play on those incentives, solving some, bringing different ones... The catch is not to disfigure a faction too much, even if it can be awesome... It's like playing with a hand grenade.
I think I ranted enough... Didnt know I had so much to say...
NB : and yes as BB said above, a lot of things have changed community wise, and not just in the roleplaying one. CCP perverted ethics over years (MonocleGate, SommerBlink, always more alts, deleterious atmosphere with the enforcement of goonlike mentality, trash people as much as you could, etc.
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Utsukushi, Lyn, thank you for those two posts. 8)
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I only have been in RP for 3 years now (Joined with em in 2011) and thus, missed this "Golden age" so many speak about. RP and EVE have, of course, been a series of ups and downs for me, and due to spike in numbers of new RPers ivenoticed, we seem to be on something of an up, from MY point of view - keep in mind, I missed this golden age.
I hope we get more story though - like, who ordered the Coleile attack, do we have a chief, etc etc. This stuff generally doesnt linger for years...
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Gameplaywise, I'm having a blast. Since I fit my RP to follow this activity it's really not much of a problem. Granted, this leads to a lot of closet/internal RP, but that's the nature of the beast. If you've got a character with ideals and standards (of duty, for example), then chatting up that blood raider barbie (<3 u) becomes really hard to justify when there'd be a lot of other things that character could actually do to further one's agendas. :)
Generally speaking, I'd say it's about change and the inability to adapt to it. You pick your niche and it gets boring, or you get stuck. Either you learn to let go and adapt to try out something new (Such as mentioned by Saede) or you'll get alienated from the game, and additionally by the community, because no one really enjoys being around someone who hates everything. Then, others don't manage to accept the change in the game. I do think that as a bittervet, and we've got plenty of reasons to be bitter =), we ought to be the people that do things, instead of waiting for others to magically solve our pile of problems.
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I don't think there is much of a Golden Age of RP to begin with... Maybe before I started to play with Aurora or the overall very enthusiastic nature of the first eve players towards the universe, but well... I think there more up and downs in RP in general, and specific little golden ages here and there tied to communities, groups, or RP entities (corps and alliances) or individuals, that will live their golden age at a specific time, and then vanish or go dormant, and maybe wake up a few years later to live another golden age. It's the way it works usually.
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Gameplaywise, I'm having a blast. Since I fit my RP to follow this activity it's really not much of a problem. Granted, this leads to a lot of closet/internal RP, but that's the nature of the beast. If you've got a character with ideals and standards (of duty, for example), then chatting up that blood raider barbie (<3 u) becomes really hard to justify when there'd be a lot of other things that character could actually do to further one's agendas. :)
Generally speaking, I'd say it's about change and the inability to adapt to it. You pick your niche and it gets boring, or you get stuck. Either you learn to let go and adapt to try out something new (Such as mentioned by Saede) or you'll get alienated from the game, and additionally by the community, because no one really enjoys being around someone who hates everything. Then, others don't manage to accept the change in the game. I do think that as a bittervet, and we've got plenty of reasons to be bitter =), we ought to be the people that do things, instead of waiting for others to magically solve our pile of problems.
All this really. Said it better then I did.
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The ability and willingness to try new stuff - or at least not restrict yourself to one particular activity - in EVE is pretty critical, as others have said. Setting yourself achievable goals is another.
IMO, the best thing someone can have for managing to find long-term enjoyment in EVE as a game is the ability to be flexible and try new things - or at least new combinations of things.
Burned out on PVP? Try PVE of some flavor. If you want to work alone but need some risk factor, try low/nullsec missioning. If you want to do it in groups? Try incursions, or if those aren't your thing, L5 missions.
Burned out on mission-grinding? Try taking an underpowered ship into higher-level missions for a challenge, like a HAC into a L4, or an AF into L3s. Deliberately handicapping yourself can provide an interesting experience - I know Ava tried running L4s with a Vagabond once or twice.
There's also industry and market shenanigans. I'll be dipping my toes into industry again for the first time in a little over a year in a month or two.
You could also make a new character and set a goal for yourself with that character - say, a certain wallet balance in a certain amount of time. Or standings with a corp or faction. Limit yourself by not allowing yourself to help your own alt with ISK or assets. Try and do it as if you were a new player with no connections. I've done this before, it's hard work but it can be fun experiencing all the low-level content over again, and your knowledge of skill training will help you specialize much faster - when I did this I ended up having the skills trained to competently fly ships that I had no way of affording - months in advance, in some cases. Not to mention, the newest set of tutorials are actually a decent amount of fun and worth playing through.
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Ambitious for progress, but lamenting the loss of that world of pure potential and limitless expectation that went with the first frontier"
It's remarkable how similar Eve players have made their world to the last days of the American west. Civilisation was always the goal, but now we've got it we miss the wildness and freedom of the 'Golden Age'.
For myself, right now I'm finding watching Eve from a distance far more interesting and practical than actually playing it. I first started playing in 2008, immediately after the Trinity expansion. For two years after that I cycled through an endless and uncountable number of alts, trying pretty much everything Eve has to offer. I've done highsec, lowsec, nullsec, wormholes, all of it. I was almost on the edge of quitting by late 2010, when I found EM and started RP. Never looked back.
However, even I have started to mellow in my attitude towards the community a bit. Eve RP seems to be very much an 'in' or 'out' crowd situation, with both groups having their issues with the other. Whether this is "elitism" or "derp" doesn't matter too much, the point I'm trying to make is that Eve RP is currently very divided even amongst itself, and this seems to me to be something that needs working on.
I do have my own ideas for when I return though, and they're nothing to do with FW. I might make a post about them at some point to see what people think.
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Thank you kindly for all of these comments, will have to read and digest these a bit
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I ran into a 'Meh' period probably between 2 and 3 years into Eve - just logging in occasionally to chat, stuff like that. After that is when I really got more involved in RP, and I haven't really felt too ambivalent about the game since then - though I have had substantial time constraints that have meant not playing as much as I'd like sometimes. The main thing is always just finding things to do, and there are plenty I still haven't done, or haven't done in depth. I've never been an active participant in a 0.0 alliance, I've never done a ton of piracy, never lived in a WH (those things freak me out, man), etc. Having goals, and trying to achieve them is what keeps the magic alive for me.
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There is something people should be told more about and ready to face when coming to the point of detaching oneself of the game itself and focusing on pure RP things with the game as a background mostly, which happens to most people at various scale at some point.
You will eventually be looked down by newer players that consider that gameplay is sacred and building IC sandcastles besides is to be utterly nuked. Newer players that have yet to come to that specific crossroads. Theoretically if you have done enough deeds in your past to back it up, it should not be a big issue.
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I ran into a 'Meh' period probably between 2 and 3 years into Eve - just logging in occasionally to chat, stuff like that.
I'm not very good at 'meh' playing. I'd like either to pursue something with passion, or not put much time into it.
I still do like the game, and mechanically its gotten better, but because the goals I love to achieve aren't achievable in the time I'm willing to spend on EVE.
Most aspects of gameplay felt better the first few times than when I've done them a thousand times over. Moreso for PvE activities and less so for interacting with other players. I used to love posting my killsmails on corp forum and discussing particular fights, but after a couple of hundred kills, it loses its luster.
My personal Golden Age was 0-3 years into the game. When most gameplay was still fresh and involved learning new stuff. Now I'm much better at predicting outcomes of things I do (both mechanically, but also RP-wise), which sadly tends to make it less interesting and reduces my actual sense of choice and freedom. It sometimes difficult to explain to bright-eyed new players why you sometimes don't undock with those high-sec war deccers around. I mean, they have a much smaller ship, and are sitting there on the undock ripe for the shooting! Why aren't the more experienced players undocking to make use of this golden opportunity? .... :|
I'm also better a predicting the amount of effort and time it takes to get fun things off the ground within a diverse community of on-and-off volunteers like EVE is and that it takes *a lot* of time and effort to be a content-creator instead of mostly a content-consumer.
I also believe that to use EVE as a glorified chat channel can actually be detrimental to the gameplay of others. You create an illusion of people being there, but they tend to be people not willing to put much time and effort into cooperative gameplay (although maybe sometimes their characters say the would). Lot of people in chat channels, corps, alliances or other EVE venues seem to be lurking and waiting for someone else to come along and entertain them. Someone else to create content for them. Reactive play as it were. I prefer not to play that way.
Basically, what do you want to get out of EVE? What are the goals that excite you as a player, and can they be reasonably met with the tools you have on hand? If you don't have goals, or little hope of achieving the goals with the tools you have, then you might as well not play.
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Basically, what do you want to get out of EVE? Plenty, however... What are the goals that excite you as a player, and can they be reasonably met with the tools you have on hand? ...no, they can't. My goals would require quite a great deal of work. It will take time, Time I don't have. If you don't have goals, or little hope of achieving the goals with the tools you have, then you might as well not play. I don't, for the most part. Hence my issue today. Lots of thing I'd *want* to do, little that I *can* do.
The pay I have given to CCP in the form of formerly 5 accounts, now 3, that have been subscribed for, over the last 3 years of general inactivity is substantial. It is perhaps 4-5 months since I sold Jesmine and another toon, so the last 4-5 months is only 100 crowns per account per month, so 1200 at best 1500 at worst. However, add to that the 1200 per year per toon before that, and you get 1200x5=6000x3=18000 in addition to the 1500 at worst, making my expenses for my indecision and inability to just un-sub and properly quit, some 19500 crowns, or 2414-something Euro. Needless to say, I should likely decide to return to EVE and *do something* or pull the plug and walk away, sooner rather than later.
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I've been at a 'meh' period for a long time now, since my last break for school, and feel like I have to figure out how to have fun with EVE again. And judging by the amount of replies I have yet to read here, I might not be alone in that.
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Invite on some crazy RPers, ones who immediately seek to push people's buttons and/or violate lore in their agendas. OOC-wise, help them on-track their statements within lore (and praise them if you feel they're walking an interesting path, for you know they're fixing to invite all kinds of heat from the community) then IC brawl with them. But don't attack credit, instead empower their credit by endorsing them. After all your character is in a state of "meh" and wants to see something interesting. Suddenly the little nooblet is backed by a power player and that'll give them the confidence to stir the pot even further.
Imagine if Diana Kim, as laughable as she might be, actually had support from the Caldari power player RPers?
*eye twitch*
But would it be interesting?
That's your problem. That's everyone's problem. In the older days people were inviting in a new or bold idea. These days everyone's still trying to champion an old idea, so much so that they don't realize they've already won. They are, in fact, the last people standing within a community. Which means a new person can point fingers at you in saying it's somewhat up to you to endorse or ignite the flames of New Eden again, even if it's purely for lulz.
Or you can settle for "meh" which works too… in which case it's only a matter of time before you're gone and a more interesting crowd takes your place.
I personally like to think there's a number of you here who actually have ideas that go along the lines of: "This is insane… But the result would be incredibly interesting…"
It might not even lead to war, or even multiple wars, but rather just one ploy to put the community against itself. Yet you know you've done something right if it invites in new blood and overall stirs the pot.
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Join me in world domination Sil, no-one will stand against our combined... *cough*
No I totally understand where you are coming from, I am currently playing eve for maybe an hour to three max. Though I don't give up hope that things will change, mostly because frak any other MMO out there that gives me the chance to immerse myself in boothead executorship.
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I am about to give up on Eve Online, though. Mostly because I no longer have the time for gaming as I used to, due to family/parent obligations that I did not have in the past. The few hours I can still use for gaming is much better spend on something which allows to be paused and saved at any moment. I had a vague hope that Eve-O would be having more casual content by now, but that appears to be way down the roadmap.
But it is truly hard to let go of a hobby that has brought enjoyment for ten years. :|
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I am about to give up on Eve Online, though. Mostly because I no longer have the time for gaming as I used to, due to family/parent obligations that I did not have in the past. The few hours I can still use for gaming is much better spend on something which allows to be paused and saved at any moment. I had a vague hope that Eve-O would be having more casual content by now, but that appears to be way down the roadmap.
But it is truly hard to let go of a hobby that has brought enjoyment for ten years. :|
There are other MMOs out there with a bent towards more casual gaming, if you want to keep playing a social online game without the inherent time constraints. In fact, MMO is slowly becoming a misnomer because there are a LOT of games with open world, online content. FFXIV was rereleased to decent fanfare, The Elder Scrolls Online looks ready for release next year, Star Citizen will be done next year in time for Christmas, I imagine. And there's always It Which Must Not Be Named, whose new expansion was announced a few days ago.
I'm sure other people here could point you in the direction of other titles. It seems like a lot of the "meh" factor is coming from more casual players only playing EVE as a secondary pursuit to another game.
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I am not interested in any other MMO (bar Star Citizen maybe, and perhaps Black Desert Online which doesnt look so promising...) to begin with, so the meh factor is also playing eve just because there is no other alternative.
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I am not interested in any other MMO (bar Star Citizen maybe, and perhaps Black Desert Online which doesnt look so promising...) to begin with, so the meh factor is also playing eve just because there is no other alternative.
Once one starts with Eve, all the other MMOs felt so dull.
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Maybe, though I find Eve rather dull on many sides itself. Eve has a lot of revolutionary concepts for a sandbox, but it hardly gets away from all the standard shitty mechanisms proper to other MMOs :
- Farming
- Classes (=Ships)
- DPS/Heal/Tank trinity
- etc
It's still a lot better for all the rest that makes it good though.
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Maybe, though I find Eve rather dull on many sides itself. Eve has a lot of revolutionary concepts for a sandbox, but it hardly gets away from all the standard shitty mechanisms proper to other MMOs :
- Farming
- Classes (=Ships)
- DPS/Heal/Tank trinity
- etc
It's still a lot better for all the rest that makes it good though.
Yeah, it still has other common MMO gripes but I found it considerably less dull than, say, Guild Wars 2 solely because nothing seems scripted. If I want to do something, I can. Usually anyway. I want to be the Evil Overlord and this game gives me the tools just to do that. I want to bring criminal scums to justice by my own terms and this game gives me just what I need to accomplish that. I want to travel far and wide and put phallic symbols all over the place I had visited and again, the game lets me do exactly that too. I can't think of any other MMO that lets me do all these instead of chaperoning me through a theme park ride.
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For me I think it was that the community and feel of Eve changed. It got larger, more influenced by groups of players that didn't care about the plot or background and in turn produced devs who didn't care much either (simply because ccp recruits from the player base). I think Eve in the early years was a bit like a niche cult nightclub where edgy (slightly weird) people used to hang out and it was a buzz to hang around and make things happen. But it got more popular, went a bit more mainstream, some of the eccentrics and characters disappeared and the flavor of the place was diluted. Also, its worth admitting that we all got older too and ended up having less time to play MMO's ...
RP community ended up fighting less in actuality and more in pure RP (forums, channels etc) and left the actual achieving things to other non RP'ers and general gaming guilds etc. I'm a bit old fashioned in that I like to actually play the game I'm paying for rather than the chat channel.
In the end most of the people I was interested in interacting with ended up leaving or burning out and it was evident that CCP had chosen a direction for the game that was about nullsec blocs as the unquestioned aristocracy and small outfits would have no look in. The wardec changes a couple of years ago were my rubicon really - they were so incredibly unbalanced in favour of huge alliances it made it clear that the way I'd enjoyed playing in the intervening years was not even a blip on ccp's radar.
So that's probably the end of my eve story.
That said I've had a brilliant time this year going back to another old hobby of mine in live roleplay in the UK with a system called Empire LARP by Profound Decisions. Its 3000 odd players with a good gender mix from young families to oldies a political game that depicts a critical challenge to a human led empire surrounded by barbarians after a disastrous military campaign leads to the death of much of the leadership.
I think much of the appeal is in the size - 3000 is impressive without being dehumanizing - there are epic battles with a thousand people on the field, but the empire is run by 30 senators and individual heroes and villains matter. If you can fight you can lead and leadership can be decisive in the scale of the encounters and actions there, 30 people can hold a pass, turn the battle, and turn defeat to victory and live to tell the tale. Its truly great stuff and I've been spending my money on armour, tents, set dressings and taking my family along to take part in this stuff. They have a great living, evolving background and plot, you can change things in "live events" you make decisions, you win a reputation and write your name into the lore and setting. I love the attitude of the management team and it really helps me suspend disbelief and enjoy the game.
7-8 years ago I would have been telling my friends the same about Eve Online more or less.
But somewhere on the way Eve lost its way and some of its soul when pandering to the largest groups of players became more important than telling a story and letting us play truly dynamic space opera.
Still the anecdotes are great!
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What Jade said, basically.
I reactivated a while back to take a look at things. I tooled around for a while, looking at stuff I hadn't seen before. I chuckled at the folly of the captain's quarters. I refitted ships because the slot layout had changed (WTF?). Then I looked through my address book. As I went through the names, I noted how many of them hadn't been active in years. Some old friends and acquaintances don't even have portraits now: they quit that long ago and never came back. Others - long-established characters in Eve with a real history - have been biomassed. Frankly, it depressed me so much that I didn't bother logging in again and the sub lapsed after a month.
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The game has certainly changed a lot in the last decade, and in the 4ish years since I started playing. To be fair, I was never here when it was "good" and I learned about the game from someone already bitter about it (♥ Kazzzi). On the other hand, I tend to absorb stories like a sponge, so I can kinda picture how things used to be.
For example, Nullsec used to be held by generally smaller power blocks. Smaller alliances and outfits had their own niches, even if only in places that the bigger blocks didn't want (Providence). Semi-RP corps like Old CVA were important to the game. Think about the news stories from back then -
- and compare them to today. What makes the news today? Four thousand people in a system. Someone whelping a bunch of supers. SOMERblink.
Look at the people that CCP hires to move the game forward.
The game really has changed.
I ran into a 'Meh' period probably between 2 and 3 years into Eve - just logging in occasionally to chat, stuff like that.
I'm not very good at 'meh' playing. I'd like either to pursue something with passion, or not put much time into it.
This. I realized after about 2 years that I'd stopped playing and was just logging in to chat with people. I decided to stop paying money for that. Sadly, that means I'm not really in touch with anyone anymore. Oh well.
However, even I have started to mellow in my attitude towards the community a bit. Eve RP seems to be very much an 'in' or 'out' crowd situation, with both groups having their issues with the other. Whether this is "elitism" or "derp" doesn't matter too much, the point I'm trying to make is that Eve RP is currently very divided even amongst itself, and this seems to me to be something that needs working on.
This isn't really new or unique. The EVE RP scene has always been pretty nasty. While there's certainly still pleny of vitriol to go around, it's been pretty tame of late. Because of :factors: that you could write another thread about, EVE RP grabs people more than most. This means that conflicts become big deals rather than little ones. Lack of non-game-related OOC interaction means that in-character/in-game beefs don't get tempered, that sort of thing. I actually recall Backstage being credited with helping save the RP community (whatever exactly that is) from self-desctructing. Proof that times have changed? I can't remember the last time Graelyn or Jade had a good throw-down. The closest we have to that is people dog-piling on Leo or Vea, and that's little league.
That said, things have perhaps gotten a little nastier as of late. Perhaps we're headed for another trip to the cess pit before civility returns.
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From time to time, I've noticed a few characters turn up, whose reason for existence seems to be to put someone else down.
Not that there's anything intrinsically wrong with that. A character who has seen what capsuleers do, and is reviled by it or whatever, is a valid idea.
The thing I mean, are characters that appear to be the equivalent of a rookieship alt scout.
In say, "the summit" channel, two characters are having a heated argument. Suddenly one of them logs off, and a relative unknown character appears, insults the other party to the argument, then vanishes again. The character that had logged off, then returns.
It appears fairly transparent, that the relative unknown is someone's Insult Alt, used in order to make denigratory comments about someone else, without any consequence to the "main".
Kind of amusing once or twice, but when there's a pattern that emerges, I find it somehow depressing.
CharacterA: You
CharacterB: No you
CharacterB logs off
CharacterC: A, you are a loathsome cretin whose mother should have strangled you at birth.
CharacterC logs off
CharacterB: huh, comms glitch, had to reboot. Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, even though you're wrong.
CharacterA: No you.
In times past, I get the impression such conversations would have led to RP wars, or assassinations.
Maybe improved skin cream means people's trigger fingers aren't as itchy? vOv
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From time to time, I've noticed a few characters turn up, whose reason for existence seems to be to put someone else down.
Not that there's anything intrinsically wrong with that. A character who has seen what capsuleers do, and is reviled by it or whatever, is a valid idea.
The thing I mean, are characters that appear to be the equivalent of a rookieship alt scout.
In say, "the summit" channel, two characters are having a heated argument. Suddenly one of them logs off, and a relative unknown character appears, insults the other party to the argument, then vanishes again. The character that had logged off, then returns.
It appears fairly transparent, that the relative unknown is someone's Insult Alt, used in order to make denigratory comments about someone else, without any consequence to the "main".
Kind of amusing once or twice, but when there's a pattern that emerges, I find it somehow depressing.
CharacterA: You
CharacterB: No you
CharacterB logs off
CharacterC: A, you are a loathsome cretin whose mother should have strangled you at birth.
CharacterC logs off
CharacterB: huh, comms glitch, had to reboot. Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, even though you're wrong.
CharacterA: No you.
In times past, I get the impression such conversations would have led to RP wars, or assassinations.
Maybe improved skin cream means people's trigger fingers aren't as itchy? vOv
Players who do such things are risk-averse and wouldn't possibly be in a position to lose anything other than a text chat argument.
Still catching up on this thread, thanks all.
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I hope we get more story though - like, who ordered the Coleile attack...
That'll never happen. I hate to quote that damn book but Gonzales does a great job articulating how Minmatar operate. There's an art to not holding a uniform attack like that which was witnessed at Coleile. A lot of people spite Coleile as being a terrible example of Minmatar battle tact. What should have been a series of terrorist attacks across Gallente space turned into a uniform single effort on the border which completely exposed led to being easily put down by "good guy gallente".
Mind you, it was also fitting of Minmatar believing in Midular. The same Minmatar who see the Federation and outside factions as great escape from their own. Who would rather adopt Gallente tact over use of hit-and-run/guerrilla tact that the Tribes have perfected over the ages fighting the slaver threat. The same tact that many argue is barbaric for its involvement of civilians.
(Also the same tact witnessed modern day by TRIAD in their strikes made deep inside Amarr space.)
Such a character would be duck hunting season for characters like Isis (TRIAD, or other followers of Minmatar as explained in Empyrean Age and typical lore), prone to not be the subject of public scrutiny (unless it's the Midular crowd outcry) but rather series of characters reaching out via private contact with Minmatar representatives demanding justice for defacing the Tribes and their name (key word: Tribes, as in not on behalf of the Republic). Such is the selfish, unable-to-unify Minmatar we've all come to know making appearance.
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I... am confused and feel very dumb for not being able to understand... :|
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I... am confused and feel very dumb for not being able to understand... :|
Minmatar. In a nutshell. You're not dumb, you probably are missing one or a few key details:
- Coleile is a recent event in where Minmatar-loyal forces performed a stand-off on the border of Gallente space and were pretty much slaughtered because of it.
- Tony Gonzales wrote the book EVE: Empyrean Age.
- Karin Midular is a key character of Minmatar, a woman who believes very firmly in the concept and prospect of the Minmatar Republic. Us as an entity which holds a seat at the CONCORD Assembly and has sought recognition from the Gallente/Caldari/Amarr (something in the past has never really happened). For this reason her administration was considered very corrupt for she could typically be put down by the Amarrian figure, who could quote the will of Minmatar people better than she could at times (with 40% of all Minmatar enslaved by Amarr, they do truly know us better than ourselves at times). For these reasons, she was ousted from power by Shakor (who is our present lead figure but also in his own ways corrupt) and later was assassinated (a recent event which led to Coleile).
- TRIAD is a Minmatar RP Alliance.
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While the current live event situations do contribute to the topic at hand, I'm not sure all of that does.
Elsewhere with this?
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I... am confused and feel very dumb for not being able to understand... :|
Minmatar. In a nutshell. You're not dumb, you probably are missing one or a few key details:
- Coleile is a recent event in where Minmatar-loyal forces performed a stand-off on the border of Gallente space and were pretty much slaughtered because of it.
- Tony Gonzales wrote the book EVE: Empyrean Age.
- Karin Midular is a key character of Minmatar, a woman who believes very firmly in the concept and prospect of the Minmatar Republic. Us as an entity which holds a seat at the CONCORD Assembly and has sought recognition from the Gallente/Caldari/Amarr (something in the past has never really happened). For this reason her administration was considered very corrupt for she could typically be put down by the Amarrian figure, who could quote the will of Minmatar people better than she could at times (with 40% of all Minmatar enslaved by Amarr, they do truly know us better than ourselves at times). For these reasons, she was ousted from power by Shakor (who is our present lead figure but also in his own ways corrupt) and later was assassinated (a recent event which led to Coleile).
- TRIAD is a Minmatar RP Alliance.
I know that, i'm just either not sure what your point is, or just that I am struggling to understand your... way of speaking in the previous post, or your English. :/
Sorry, I'm not a native.
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I... am confused and feel very dumb for not being able to understand... :|
Minmatar. In a nutshell. You're not dumb, you probably are missing one or a few key details:
- Coleile is a recent event in where Minmatar-loyal forces performed a stand-off on the border of Gallente space and were pretty much slaughtered because of it.
- Tony Gonzales wrote the book EVE: Empyrean Age.
- Karin Midular is a key character of Minmatar, a woman who believes very firmly in the concept and prospect of the Minmatar Republic. Us as an entity which holds a seat at the CONCORD Assembly and has sought recognition from the Gallente/Caldari/Amarr (something in the past has never really happened). For this reason her administration was considered very corrupt for she could typically be put down by the Amarrian figure, who could quote the will of Minmatar people better than she could at times (with 40% of all Minmatar enslaved by Amarr, they do truly know us better than ourselves at times). For these reasons, she was ousted from power by Shakor (who is our present lead figure but also in his own ways corrupt) and later was assassinated (a recent event which led to Coleile).
- TRIAD is a Minmatar RP Alliance.
I know that, i'm just either not sure what your point is, or just that I am struggling to understand your... way of speaking in the previous post, or your English. :/
Sorry, I'm not a native.
Just replying to Ava. :ugh:
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So people are getting all bitter waiting for the metaphorical Godot now?
The secret I've found to enjoying Eve is to just do your own thing with other people who think just like you do -- then ignore everyone else and/or tell them to politely fuck off because they're terribad.
Just like you'd do in the real world, no?
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So its "Youre doing it wrong".
Got it.
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I haven't read all the posts, but meh, can't be bothered.
I've been RPing since 2010 so I remember a lot of the "olden days." Frankly, I think RP is what you make of it. I have a good group of people that I RP with and we tend to stick within ourselves. I try to do interesting things with my channel ((L'Amore)), but it ebs and flows as it always has with RP in Eve. I think what's difficult is more and more people are starting to RP so you get these oddball characters that have no real background or history and the vanish just as quickly as they arrive. I can name on one hand the people that have been constants in Lasa's RP. I think I'm rambling now so I'm gonna stop. :P
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So its "Youre doing it wrong".
Got it.
Nonsense. If anything just a walking great example about how we can't unify if our life depended on it. xD
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So people are getting all bitter waiting for the metaphorical Godot now?
The secret I've found to enjoying Eve is to just do your own thing with other people who think just like you do -- then ignore everyone else and/or tell them to politely fuck off because they're terribad.
I pretty much have to agree with this. EVE works best when you have goals to achieve, and the only source for those goals has to be internal to your group.