Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: orange on 20 Jun 2010, 13:58
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So, on IGS (or even in-game) we go back & forth over the same ground every time a discussion is begun. My question is do people find this fun?
Most of the time, no new material is presented in these discussions and when new material is presented it tends to be degenerated into just being part of the same old material.
Are we effectively stuck in this loop? Propaganda vs propaganda* with no way out until CCP tells us (for the empires)?
*If you do not think you are posting propaganda, um... you need to read your stuff as if you are not involved.
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I used to post a lot on IGS years ago. Not so much anymore.
At some point you realize that most of what you would say on a lot of threads, you've already said many times.
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a lot of threads by small/newer entities get hi-jacked and pages of junk added by older entities going over the same arguments with other older entities.
Not overly interesting to read.
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Not missing it in the slightest.
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Used to post on it a great deal, but realized this fact and now I only do when something really interesting comes up or when it coincides with KPV's current goals. So no, I suppose not.
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This is at least 50% of why I usually ignore IGS.
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Yeah Im not a big fan either to be honest. I try to post in some threads Ember may feel strongly about without resorting to the same old propaganda I see. Other than that I usually only go for interesting new stuff like the perfume guy or other fun things people do from time to time.
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If my reply to a IC thread needs to be broken down into multiple posts in order to fit everything1 in, I abandon it, reasoning that the thread's likely already gone into a death spiral, and my contribution will only make it worse. Fortunately, since the majority of my characters hate turning personal business into a public spectacle, my "meta-decision" to keep their mouths shut doesn't usually require me to jump through many IC hoops.
1This state also suggests to me that the IC vitriol's probably got more than a hint of OOC sentiment in it.
Edit: And yes, after having read this (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1340549), I can definitely say that almost any IC reply I could make to this thread (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1338552) would have more than a hint of OOC sentiment in it.
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I've seen more than my share of these kinds of posts (about the IGS), and they usually never end well.
I always ask myself when I post: what is the purpose of responding? If you (as in your character) are trading barbs with an ideological foe, do you really think one side is going to concede their stance? If slavers and freedom fighters are willing to murder each other to prove a point, what is the intellectual value of tit-for-tat arguments?
For me, the only purpose would be to sway a neutral audience towards my cause, but seeing as how everyone's eyes glaze over when forum discussions get snipey and pendantic, one would think that diplomats would be smarter about controlling their corporate image.
Don'tcha think? ;)
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For me, the only purpose would be to sway a neutral audience towards my cause, but seeing as how everyone's eyes glaze over when forum discussions get snipey and pendantic, one would think that diplomats would be smarter about controlling their corporate image.
Well part of the response to this is to establish a more public corporate image and ensuring your character's views are seen, not just by other RPers, but by CCP.
If for example all the Amarr RPers went slight for the next year and never responded in anyway to the Empire's detractors, I suspect the background landscape would change. The non-Amarrian RPers would begin to have a direct impact on how new RPers view the Empire without any foil to compare it against.
This gets back to the Sansha RPers fighting the "Borg"-image. If all anyone on IGS says about the Sansha is they are like the Borg, then pretty soon that is all that remains.
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So, on IGS (or even in-game) we go back & forth over the same ground every time a discussion is begun. My question is do people find this fun?
Most of the time, no new material is presented in these discussions and when new material is presented it tends to be degenerated into just being part of the same old material.
Are we effectively stuck in this loop? Propaganda vs propaganda* with no way out until CCP tells us (for the empires)?
*If you do not think you are posting propaganda, um... you need to read your stuff as if you are not involved.
Give me a day to secure permission, and I can post a few pages of epic Jekaterine ranting about the recursive idiocy of IGS argument.
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Wait, what? You want to be seen by CCP? :|
...alright. I guess. But the example you provided there was an extreme. No one said, don't post, but holy shit, six pages of 'ur fat' 'nuh uh' 'ya huh' back-and-forth b.s. gets old pretty fast.
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Some people do; they enjoy positive recognition from the game's developers.
So far it appears that IGS is not particularly worthwhile as a forum; so should it be gotten rid of?
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IGS could use some moderation for flaming.
Also, I know this might be difficult for many of us, but not every IGS thread needs to be a debate. :P
Believe it or not, there are other ways of communicating on there other than nit-picking every point of a post, even with your enemies.
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I personally find the back-and-forth very fun. For those who don't...well, you don't have to post there, either. If you're looking for a moderated-for-personal-attacks IC board, why not create one?
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So, on IGS (or even in-game) we go back & forth over the same ground every time a discussion is begun. My question is do people find this fun?
Most of the time, no new material is presented in these discussions and when new material is presented it tends to be degenerated into just being part of the same old material.
Are we effectively stuck in this loop? Propaganda vs propaganda* with no way out until CCP tells us (for the empires)?
*If you do not think you are posting propaganda, um... you need to read your stuff as if you are not involved.
I like seeing back and forth between new people in factions and oldies helping out the new people with their arguments.
I dislike (read, burn holes with my eyes) oldies hijacking newbie threads with their old arguments that's down to a script in its performance.
I feel the hijacking creates an imposing atmosphere to new people trying to "get in" when you have single individuals crapping out multiple (2+) posts in response to 1(one) person. It's like what the hell guys. I don't mind oldies going at each other, it bugs me when they clockblock the newbies. Sure, same arguments, but its different people who haven't done it before.
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I try to stay out of any thread on the IGS that looks like propaganda (often disguised as news, though the intend is obvious) or outright e-peen wavering. Though, maybe I am projecting my lack of interest in people talking about how great they are in real life to my characters in EVE.
And for people needing attention from CCP to "validate" their RP? I seriously pity them like I generally pity media whores.
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I try to stay out of any thread on the IGS that looks like propaganda (often disguised as news, though the intend is obvious) or outright e-peen wavering. Though, maybe I am projecting my lack of interest in people talking about how great they are in real life to my characters in EVE.
And for people needing attention from CCP to "validate" their RP? I seriously pity them like I generally pity media whores.
I guess you should pity me then. The ILF started out as a tiny little group ideologically somewhere in the middle of the Intaki separatism debate. I propagandized the hell out of the IGS. I argued my points with ardently Pro-Feds and counseled temperance to the violently Anti-Feds.
Over time, I won a few converts from both camps, but getting the other side to change their viewpoint is really only a small part of the propaganda activity. The real "earnings" from the time investment is attracting the undecideds to your side. There are new people coming into Eve all the time and they are reading the IGS and trying to figure out whats going on and who's doing what.
Being active on the IGS and cultivating the image of the ILF there allowed us to grow and prosper. We've gone from the upstart to leader of the Intaki movement and it took a fair bit of media whoring to do it.
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I do agree that the Intaki RPers have carved out a fascinating niche that has received attention of various sorts from CCP.
But to expand on my earlier statement without knocking anybody, I personally have chosen to RP primarily in-game, both through my actions (e.g. working on standings, doing research and trade, etc.) as well as through interactions with other players. IGS just doesn't serve my individual needs, as it's not the sort of environment that lends itself to the things I enjoy.
It does make me wish we had a place for "traditional" forum RP. I wonder if CCP would mind if some of us used the EVE Fiction board, as forum RP could certainly be regarded as a type of collaborative storytelling. Alternately, perhaps a wiki page?
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If traditional forum RP means what I think it means, I believe people have done it on IGS. There is a thread that's been running like, 6 years now, or so.
I've never really don'e forum RP of that sort, so I could be mixing up definitions and stuff.
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Got a link? I would love to see that I've totally misjudged the IGS.
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Got a link? I would love to see that I've totally misjudged the IGS.
Possibly referring to this:
http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=91967&page=1
And...ohgodnostalgiaoverload. *sniff*
ETA:
Personally, I did enjoy a bit of banter with my Amarrian counterparts from time to time, but Wanoah was naturally a somewhat combative character in any case. Brutor with both brawn and some brains. :)
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Got a link? I would love to see that I've totally misjudged the IGS.
Possibly referring to this:
http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=91967&page=1
And...ohgodnostalgiaoverload. *sniff*
ETA:
Personally, I did enjoy a bit of banter with my Amarrian counterparts from time to time, but Wanoah was naturally a somewhat combative character in any case. Brutor with both brawn and some brains. :)
A month from auto-lock too. Though there seem to be a cadre of people who keep an eye on it and bump it in the nick of time whenever it gets close.
As for this thread's main topic... Hard to know what to say except that I think there is too much generalisation going on here and the odure being heaped on the heads of 'oldsters' is amusing.
Cosmo
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Hm, maybe for the need to attract people to the cause, media whoring can be necessary, though an in-game recruitment drive would properly be more effective. But in the case of people finding interest of the story you are telling and aspect of EVE you are presenting, I have only found the need to present an interesting and maybe original idea and an amazing number of people will know who you are. Little posting on the IGS seems to be really needed and I most certainly do not need the ISD to write stuff about me as motivation for RP and to tell my own story. In fact, I would prefer if they did not.
Truth be told, the Intaki separatist movement is a very interesting topic and I did have plans of making a character and sign up for it too. But, things came in the way... as usual. :|
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As for this thread's main topic... Hard to know what to say except that I think there is too much generalisation going on here and the odure being heaped on the heads of 'oldsters' is amusing.
What does that mean?
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There was a thing, teh first space nun war, where it was me, and the opponent was a newish character.
So, we'd set ourselves up for a (very) small war, and it was fun to RP it all out. Had lots of interesting things going on in it.
As I recall, on the IGS threads about it, there were several older players than I/my opponent, who had commented on it, and some may have become involved beyond comments. (I think there was a subsequent war between other people as a result).
The thing is though, that Space Nun War I, is mine/my opponents. Some people would use it to further their arguments. "See, the Matari are At It Again" or "Behold, for the Amarr are At It Again", and I'll probably not express this all that well, but can't they let us fight our war in peace?
Maybe other small/new entities have similar things. Part of IGS is finding opponents to have RP wars with, and finding one that would be a reasonable match. Having much larger groups get involved can maybe feel a bit like your character becoming a bit-part actor in your character's own life, which is a bit :s
As for arguments about stuff, occasionally, the use of scriptures can be fun for me, arguing about interpretations, but at the same time, I don't know if there's any effect on the other people. Someone comes out with a scripture quote and talks about it, it affects me, by making me think "how would Lou counter that?" which can be nice, but do my counter-statements have similar effects on the other people in the thread? I have no idea. If there is no effect, then I am wasting my time typing a response, but not wasting my time thinking a response, as I sometimes get ideas about things as a result.
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I don't know what you're talking aboot.
IGS is great.
:D
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Stopped reading the IGS months ago when the faction war threads became just really OOC. I am sure I am missing some absolute gems though. As for the back and forth, while it fits in character it bores me as much as endless political debates do. I can enjoy a good debate but after five years on the same damn topic it really gets fucking old :bash: And while in real life you might reach a solution at some point in EVE some things aren't going to go anywhere until the fiction team takes them somewhere.
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As for this thread's main topic... Hard to know what to say except that I think there is too much generalisation going on here and the odure being heaped on the heads of 'oldsters' is amusing.
What does that mean?
Odure is a polite way of referring to shit - I've heard it used non-rhetorically in reference to compost heaps full of horse-shit. Probably from old French for "dirty".
Rhetorically, to "heap odure on someone" is a somewhat archaic way of saying that you're giving abuse to someone. Perhaps unfairly, perhaps excessively, perhaps not.
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I suspect it's just French, I can't find any references to it in English anywhere (including multiple dictionaries).
That said, I think many of us who still feel as though we're "new" certainly do feel the divide. Probably not a topic for this particular thread, however.
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Possibly if we spelt it correctly, you'd have more luck.
Try Ordure. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ordure (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ordure)
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My apologies, a slip of the braincells (I won't say it was a slip of the fingers, I knew it was spelt that way so not justifiable). Ah well.
But returning to the topic, it was ever thus. This is, in part, what happens when you RP on a forum. A forum is a medium and like most media it tends to shape that which is communicated (or is being attempted to be communicated).
Cos
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I tend to avoid the IGS as well unless I'm really bored at work.
Someone else mentioned after 5 years being tired of the same old stuff. I'm just a little beyond my first year in EVE and even I'm tired of reading the same ole arguements by the same ole people.
Also, and this is just a personal annoyance, I don't like the way the arguements are done. Someone posts. Then another person posts under it, dividing up the original post into sections with commentary on how they are utterly stupid. Then a third person takes that post, dissects that one, with their commentary. And so on and so on. That kind of formatting drives me insane and I tend to not read it.
But occassionaly there are really good posts there. So thats why I go back, I guess.
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I used to love it, but people started taking things a little bit too far and in some cases, way too far, and after a while it just wasn't as fun anymore.
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Personally, I think that the IGS is the primary forum for the "black and white" arguments of each faction. I save the "gray area" RP for more private boards and interactions - on the whole, I've never really become bored with just trying to rip your opponent to shreds while defending your own position. It's a bit like a boxing match.
If you don't like threads that go that direction, it's certainly possible to post differently. But if the majority of the players prefer a good argument to a session of diplomatic dialogue, well, that's what's going to happen.
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I thoroughly enjoy the IGS sometimes. Thankfully, Meb and I share a passion for comedy both IC and OOC, so the IGS offers a way to take the mic outta serious people.
Especially useful if Meb's not in a realistic situation to go bring the fight to them, or I'm in a lack of Eve position, being in a place or on my mobile on the toilet/bus :lol:
I sometimes think people take all of it too seriously OOC. You're chars live in the gritty evil world of eve and can afford to be serious, but our world is just a pile of shite and if a game adds even more stress on you after what life does already, then I think you should chill a bit ;)
Life's tough. Eve's a game. Play the game! (removes unnecessary smiley as quota of 2 already reached)
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meh, its a place to make announcments which are IC and yet still leak into the entire game.
IGS serves a purpose and it is exactly as it will always be.
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IGS serves a purpose and it is exactly as it will always be.
That doesn't mean it is exactly as it should be.
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IGS serves a purpose and it is exactly as it will always be.
That doesn't mean it is exactly as it should be.
Nor even remotely.
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IGS serves a purpose and it is exactly as it will always be.
That doesn't mean it is exactly as it should be.
Nor even remotely.
Firmly agreed. And I'm a regular.
Being a regular, I "regularly" feel like I ought to be wearing hip-waders.
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If a RL politician makes a public statement, then you can bet that his opponents will do everything in their power to make their views on the subject known.
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Yes, and the rest of us roll our eyes at them and keep moving. Nobody is swayed by Fox News / Limbaugh / Beck / Palin to believe something new, and the same for folks opposing them.
Personally, even though I didn't get it done in time, I like seeing things like the Inventors Summit. The decryption threads related to the Sansha event series and Verone's posting of the contact with Kuvakei also stand out as interesting.
"Die slaver" "Come be redeemed thru servitude" "no u" really does get old.
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I'd rather deal with the slaver crap than:
(Insert thread full of useful stuff)
(Add post by Jade, content irrelevant, but often on topic and also interesting)
(Add a bunch of posts by people that haven't given a crap about the topic at all until Jade posted)
(Thread becomes a steaming shit pile)
^ That is an example where IGS fails, and it isn't failing because of the same tired arguments, it's failing because people have a bug up their ass about Jade and stalk him in IGS. As much as people are going to start threads on Chatsubo and act like Jade's this big stomping demon that goes around ruining threads, he's actually not the one that causes them to break down. People seeing him post and then immediately going on the attack even when they would never have even looked at the thread otherwise are the cause.
Jade gets a bad rap. He's no angel and I'm certainly not trumpeting for him as we have our issues as well, but he's certainly not the cause of as many of the problems that he is blamed for. Some? Sure. All? Hell no. Not even most.
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IGS serves a purpose and it is exactly as it will always be.
That doesn't mean it is exactly as it should be.
Nor even remotely.
Firmly agreed. And I'm a regular.
Being a regular, I "regularly" feel like I ought to be wearing hip-waders.
Shall i fetch your snorkelmask also just in case? ;)
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I always did enjoy the IGS shenanigans Zag got into with Dex Nederland and Aria Jenneth. Every time Zag was forced to issue a statement due to the ever increasing mess that was Lokikamo Innova, I sometimes imagined him throwing his cat across the office, throwing his fists into the air, and in his best angry Kirk voice screaming, "Nederlaaaaaaaand!"
Then, after promptly putting his bald head through the monitor, he'd attempt to compose himself, put his CEO beret on and engage in some corporate-speak with his Caldari adversaries. It certainly was entertaining to engage the 'enemy' on an issue that did not have to involve genocide and full planetary vitrification. *coughs*
As for the state of the IGS, I tend to put it down there being really nothing new to say after seven years. It's like a really bad marriage where the participants are just raising the same old points and arguments out of rote. Beating of dead horses and all that.
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What Zag said basically, if we want the IGS to evolve beyond the endless back and forth, then the story of eve will need to do the same.
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Wait, what? The story is fine. It's meant as a SET PIECE so that players can launch their own stories forward in the universe. This is why relying on actors, events, and NPCs for your future can be so dangerous, because you risk stagnating yourself if you don't propel your own characters.
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I've often wondered why so many RPers tie themselves specifically to pre-existing NPC factions. We constantly see CCP introduce small, fairly minor NPC groups doing their own thing (e.g. small mercenary bands, independent religious cults, even the hacker collective used in the EW/SB script descriptions). Why don't more players create something disassociated from existing structures, particularly given how those structures tend to view capsuleers?
I've tried to do this a little bit as a "knowledge nomad (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=may05)", though with limited success given the line I try to navigate between the Cartel, Thukker Tribe, and RSS. Nikiruu probably sets the best example and highest bar in this regard.
Or maybe it happens more than I know, and I just don't see it because I tend to stay away from the high-visibility areas like The Summit?
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I've often wondered why so many RPers tie themselves specifically to pre-existing NPC factions.
Easier to recruit, easier to build corp RP and dogma on it, easier to portray an image that is more easily approved by the public.
I can of course only speak from my experiences within PIE.
Of those dozens if not hundreds that I have talked with while being a recruiting officer, later a director as a head of the recruiting, then as a CEO, when someone has not read the PF and starts looking for an established corporation it gives you quite a bit of validation and content when you can direct the interested party to a quite vast amount of PF to build their RP on.
Basically it is smoke and mirrors that keeps the interested parties occupied while they get indoctrinated into the corporation and the way things are run within the corporation without the hassle of building your corp RP on shaky ground of some minor sect, faction or a small group of special interest that can be retconned into oblivion by a mere shrug from CCP.
In Amarr RP there is the Tetrimon, the Blood Raiders and just about everyone that went with the old Amarr way of things that have been retconned out of any kind of PF validification for their actions or their RP. (Tetrimon joined the Empire, turned out to be traitors, Blood Raiders were in the Bleak Lands, they were driven into shit-ass end of 0.0, the old Amarr way of seeing things were royally buttfucked by TEA.)
So yeah, the track record of CCP does not make anyone immune to being retconned out of their own loyalist RP into being heretics/outcasts, but it does not mean that it does not give security to people that start to build on something that CCP has already built with wide information in the PF (well not really wide, most of the Amarr loyalist stuff has become canon because they have had several hundred people clamoring about them on IGS thus lifting them to canon status, like the Scripture quotes.)
Basically, its easier to be part of a group that already exists and subscribe to their newsletter than actually go out on a limb and start banging your own drum.
Also there is the Drizzt Do'Urden factor of people thinking that to RP they have to be special snowflakes while in EVE most of the special snowflakes seem to be the norm, while those supporting pre-existing NPC factions seem to be the 'special' ones.
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Also there is the Drizzt Do'Urden factor of people thinking that to RP they have to be special snowflakes while in EVE most of the special snowflakes seem to be the norm, while those supporting pre-existing NPC factions seem to be the 'special' ones.
Since when? The vast majority of the RP community that I have ever interacted with are all aligned to some sort of NPC faction. The even greater majority of those to the Empires, with a spattering of small pirate-aligned corps (save for Veto being the one big one), and then the Fraction off by themselves.
Your perspective seems far different from both mine and most others I know.
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Basically, its easier to be part of a group that already exists and subscribe to their newsletter than actually go out on a limb and start banging your own drum.
Also there is the Drizzt Do'Urden factor of people thinking that to RP they have to be special snowflakes while in EVE most of the special snowflakes seem to be the norm, while those supporting pre-existing NPC factions seem to be the 'special' ones.
These two sentences appear contradictory to me, but maybe I just misunderstand. Could you explain a little further?
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I want to play Amarr. I find them awesome.
It's not some deficiency or laziness on my part.
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Basically, its easier to be part of a group that already exists and subscribe to their newsletter than actually go out on a limb and start banging your own drum.
Also there is the Drizzt Do'Urden factor of people thinking that to RP they have to be special snowflakes while in EVE most of the special snowflakes seem to be the norm, while those supporting pre-existing NPC factions seem to be the 'special' ones.
These two sentences appear contradictory to me, but maybe I just misunderstand. Could you explain a little further?
Two different instances, two different sentences.
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Then I will try to do the impossible, have a rant while eating breakfast and try to collect my thoughts at the same time.
My views expressed here are based on my experiences, EVE is a big enough sandbox nowadays that someone can have a completely opposite experiences through their playing career and their view is completely valid. This is not a competition about who is right or who is wrong, just an exchange of experiences.
I started off as a basic carebear who joined the Empire because as a player I perceived it to be the only Empire that was not blatantly lying to its population, and to the other empires, about what they were up to and what their motivations were.
I used to trash slaves, I used to collect Pax Amarria and spiced wine, I used to preach peace and happiness between the races on the old Amarr channel that was IC.
At that point I was doing the Drizzt Do'Urden bit, I was thinking that slavery was a barbaric practice and Reclaiming should be accomplished through peaceful means of mining and talking on IC channels.
Then I came across PIE, it was connected to the Jovian Body part event, where I donated the body parts to PIE (I think Ethi was drunk when I talked to him in the station and gave him the stuff I had collected) and was congratulated for being a loyal Amarrian. (I had waded through the PF while mining, slowly to get an Omen for mining and I was currently working my way up to an Armageddon, for mining of course.)
The Tal-Romon cathedral event for me was the straw that broke the camels back for me, Admiral Golan Trevize came to the Amarr channel, encouraging loyal Amarrians to run the missions for the transporting of the stones of the cathedral to Amarr Prime.
I thought it was cool.
As I was running the missions I was offered 20 million for one set of stones I was carrying by a collector (I think I had 1,8mil on my account at the time) and I refused. Because of the convictions of my character, not because of the choices of the player. I think at that point Lall took a life of her own.
I joined PIE, made my way through the ranks.
Saw more Amarrians fighting against the loyalists than actual loyalists, for years and years I came across the stereotype of an Amarrian that disapproved of slavery and/or the Empire while the loyalists were constantly the underdogs. (Ever since me joining PIE, CVA always had less pilots than the Freedom Fighters.)
I read IGS (it was mandatory for PIE pilots then) and posted there a few times.
Went to a few IC channels with the PIE mob (I think Kaleigh still remembers fondly the Gallentean cumguzzler comment.)
Anyhoos, I've had a lot of mileage in my corner of New Eden on which I base my experiences on the people that play EVE.
Which pretty much boils down to a few stereotypes that are around.
RP-lite folk, that want to join an established RP corp where they can do RP when they feel like it and have the privilege of learning from the experiences of older pilots. Its usually 50/50 with these folks if they will stay around in the loyalist crowd.
RP-noobs, that have discovered RP side of EVE after playing for a while (2 weeks to 3 years in my experience) and hunger for PF on the faction that they are a part of and hunger for examples on how to represent the faction that they have joined. Its usually 20/80 chance that they actually join loyalists and not actually join some other faction that may or may not fight against the folks they actually got the encouragement to head out to do their own thing.
Actual roleplayers, that have built their character into a real person living in the world of New Eden that reacts to things happening in the world of New Eden in a way that the player perceives a real person would react in the world of New Eden. They are the quiet ones, that tend not to make big numbers out of themselves. It's hard to generalize them in any way because finding them is pretty hard and those I have come across have been loyalists and stick to it to the bitter end.
ADD folk, basically they have to try everything and anything with their character(s), there is no red string to follow, there is just the latest news and how can they get themselves involved into it. There is a certain degree of Dramallamaism involved with IGS posts, blogs and being loud on IC channels about their latest great new thing. They usually last about a year with a thing (max) and then they have made their way into the next shiny thing in the horizon. Probably at one point, or another, one of the characters of an ADD person will be a loyalist, in all of the Factions.
Dramallamas, everything is BIG, explosions of emotions and events flying out of the yingyang of the Joves to entertain the player behind the character. Loads of blogs, IGS posts and general ego massage of the player. Usually the whole thing screams of lookatme, lookatme, LOOKATME, which leads to a lot of meh.
Drizzt Do'Urdens, special snowflakes, Mary Sues also are very entertaining, but stereotypes because anyone that has been part of the RP community for more than a year can see same patterns emerging time and time again.
'I have this great idea about a revolutionizing mcguffin that will be a great idea all around and everyone will be filled with awe from perceiving my awesome intellect for spotting this brand new angle of RP in New Eden.'
After you have seen it a hundred times it grows old and into a stereotype.
When you see it happening everywhere and all the time,
You are a bitter vet.
Meh, I think my plan shot itself in the leg, better head off to enjoy the summer a bit.
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Yes, and the rest of us roll our eyes at them and keep moving. Nobody is swayed by Fox News / Limbaugh / Beck / Palin to believe something new, and the same for folks opposing them.
But the thing is, if you only ever heard one side of the story and not the other, then some people might be swayed.
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Yes, and the rest of us roll our eyes at them and keep moving. Nobody is swayed by Fox News / Limbaugh / Beck / Palin to believe something new, and the same for folks opposing them.
But the thing is, if you only ever heard one side of the story and not the other, then some people might be swayed.
Not really, Rodj. Simple people might be swayed, but most people are smart enough to see through the bullshit anyway. If Bill O'Reilly says something stupid, the only person who answers him is Olbermann.
Because no one else on the other side cares.
There is no reason whatsoever to answer it, because propaganda of the types that is spewed is (first of all poor propaganda most of the time) something people are so inundated with they oft know exactly how much bullshit it is.
When new propaganda comes up? Sure. But it's the same stuff people have heard a million times and no one is listening anymore.
That's why the only person who answers Bill-O is the pundits on the other side, not your regular joe. The pundits are all who care.
Are you suggesting punditry?
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Are you suggesting punditry?
Hm. Now that could almost become an interesting RP angle. ;)
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Well, it would have to be that angle. We got tabloid-based articles with Muck Raker on the IGS.
...whoever she is. :D
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Could make for some interesting intra-Empire RP. Back and forth between people with liberal/patriot/practical views in the State. I'm sure similar differences exist in the Republic/Empire/Fed (especially the Fed).
It could be cool because it helps people develop more nuanced agendas for their character within a greater faction they might be part of.
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I've often wondered why so many RPers tie themselves specifically to pre-existing NPC factions.
I don't really know about other people, but I was trying to play a character reacting in a realistic way to the events around them. Ulf was brought up by a clan on Matar, with all of the relationships, relatives, social connections. Nobody particularly special, just an average Sebiestor.
Now he's a pod-pilot.
I still think that (apart from an adjustment phase like when a teenager discovers alcohol and wild parties) a lot of his values and reactions are going to, initially at least, be similar to before he was a pilot. He's loyal to the clan and family that he was brought up with.
Real people (usually) like to have a social group, something to tell them what they're doing is right, pat them on the shoulder, and let them feel good about themselves. Fairly often, this is a pre-existing group, rather than one that they create themselves. Or if they do create it themselves, it's as a clique or sub-group of a larger group.
Yes, EM is a clique of the Matari, but it's still Matari.
On a gamist level, if you join a pre-existing group, then there is a pattern for how other people can react to you, so it's actually less work for people to interact with you; There's also the society to react to, and indeed to react back, which gives a group a context in the larger cluster that is not made up of pod-pilots, giving it a greater feeling of verisimilitude.
Ulf is my first character. I've not explored all the interesting bits of Matari society enough to get bored with it. I don't want to explore something less normal, without having explored the normal enough to contrast it.
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Could make for some interesting intra-Empire RP. Back and forth between people with liberal/patriot/practical views in the State. I'm sure similar differences exist in the Republic/Empire/Fed (especially the Fed).
It could be cool because it helps people develop more nuanced agendas for their character within a greater faction they might be part of.
I think I have seen a few examples of this (in the State example since that is my area of RP), but it generally gets consumed by the noise as others do not engage the nuances and just fire for effect.
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An outsider does not really see much internal State opposition, since they must maintain a united front publically or something I imagine...
Public Federal internal warring is characteristic enough, however.
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An outsider does not really see much internal State opposition, since they must maintain a united front publically or something I imagine...
I am not sure if you are talking about the player entities (which have had disagreements in the past) or the NPC entities.
If you are talking about the NPC entities then you are missing/ignoring several IC news articles from the past 6 months.
The player entities are more quieter, although there are some disagreement in various public conversations between various Caldari personalities.
At present I can not name an active Caldari RP-entity that claims loyalty to the State as a whole without claiming some alignment with one of the megacorporations.
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Yes, and the rest of us roll our eyes at them and keep moving. Nobody is swayed by Fox News / Limbaugh / Beck / Palin to believe something new, and the same for folks opposing them.
But the thing is, if you only ever heard one side of the story and not the other, then some people might be swayed.
Not really, Rodj. Simple people might be swayed, but most people are smart enough to see through the bullshit anyway. If Bill O'Reilly says something stupid, the only person who answers him is Olbermann.
Because no one else on the other side cares.
There is no reason whatsoever to answer it, because propaganda of the types that is spewed is (first of all poor propaganda most of the time) something people are so inundated with they oft know exactly how much bullshit it is.
When new propaganda comes up? Sure. But it's the same stuff people have heard a million times and no one is listening anymore.
That's why the only person who answers Bill-O is the pundits on the other side, not your regular joe. The pundits are all who care.
Are you suggesting punditry?
The thing is, Fox News is woefuly biased, while IGS is a neutral venue.
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And that has nothing to do with what I was saying, Rodj, and in fact dodged the point.
The point is no one responds to pundits but pundits, because everyone else assumes that their propaganda is just that -- mindless propaganda with no substance, or at the very least very little substance, or the people that are so far off in left field that they already believe the propaganda the pundit is spewing, in which case nothing anyone else says to the contrary matters.
So I am asking that if you feel that if a pundit on the other side says something, that you must respond lest people be convinced they are right, are you claiming that you are nothing more than a pundit? (IC of course).