Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Invelious on 08 Feb 2011, 13:19
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Basically, when I play, I do everything I possibly can for the Amarr Empire, at all costs. I RP, but my motivation transcends RP. It's like the passion one would have for their fav football(soccer) or hockey team, to think of liking another team is blasphemy. Its odd, no matter what I do, with any character I have, they all skill and operate for the greater goals of the Amarr Empire.
I have literally tried to RP for other factions, and it seems I can't bring myself to do anything that isn't Amarrian aligned. Anyone else in the same boat?
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I bleed Amarr!
I'm pretty much the same way. I have two alts that are Amarr aligned as well. Not that I ever rp them that much, but in my mind, they are pro Amarr.
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I would say my loyalty is along the lines of Ishukone first, State Second. Mostly because I feel Ishukone has the State's better interest's in mind. ;)
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Loyalty rank order:
1. God
2. The Empire
3. The Emperor
4. My Corp
5. My Friends/Family
6. Amarr Nobility
something like that.
Would you deny God if it would save the Empire?
Would you disobey the Emperor if it would safe the Empire?
Would you sacrifice your family and friends, if it would safe the Empire?
Would you disobey your CEO if you think his orders are in contradiction to the Emperor's will?
All relevant questions a supposed fanatical loyalist needs to ask himself. Where does his loyalty lie really? Its easy to be a fanatical loyalist if you don't need to make hard choices.
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Esna is more loyal to the idealized concept of what the Empire should be than to the Empire itself. He is just as welling to perform acts some might consider "anti-Empire" because he feels it will force the Empire to metamorphasize into something better.
In fact, I nearly had Esna turn against the Empire when I first started to RP, because at that time the Empire seemed to me to be one continuous chain of stupid evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil) rather than lawful or reasonable evil, often committing (or trying to commit) acts that could not be rationalized in any way except "For the evulz". Fortunately Jamyl godhammered Karsoth and gave the Empire a bit more depth again (one of the few good things to come out of her return, IMO) so he could give a sigh of relief and not have to make that choice.
That said... could I RP from another side? I think so, though it would require some experimentation, especially if I were to take a "hardliner" role - I am naturally logical (perhaps to a fault) and so sometimes have trouble supporting illogical and extreme positions. Esna has also inherited some other things I see in myself (I know, not strictly a good RP policy, but things slip in, you know?) so creating an entirely new character from scratch would be a new experience.
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I have a strong anti-bandwagon impulse, so I'll avoid RPing any of the "popular" factions.
If Gallente was a big playerbase, I'd happily RP something else. Likely Amarr to explore traditionalism, non-Western culture in a sci-fi setting, or Caldari.
I sometimes create throwaway RP alts to explore them anymore, so v0v
Factions are secondary for me
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I hope that if someone encounters Mitty, they will get a pro-Amarr vibe....
:D
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I hope that if someone encounters Mitty, they will get a pro-Amarr vibe....
:D
What kinda batteries do those take?
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I hope that if someone encounters Mitty, they will get a pro-Amarr vibe....
:D
What kinda batteries do those take?
Imperial Navy Cap Rechargers
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I have literally tried to RP for other factions, and it seems I can't bring myself to do anything that isn't Amarrian aligned. Anyone else in the same boat?
Yeah pretty much.
The idea of doing something other than Sansha is so alien to my mind it's pretty incomprehensible.
I'm sure the GMs loved all those petitions I sent in over the years asking for a way to mission for the Sansha before they introduced the fix.
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When I started eve I was told I had to be Amarrian. Recently I objectively looked at that decision, considering all the options but you know what? I'm now proud to consider myself an Amarr loyalist both in character and out. For the record I'm not religious, not pro slavery or anything else you might associate with Amarrians however I feel strongly that I've picked one of the hardest factions to RP as lawful good and I cant see myself working for any other faction.
Grr is now retired but when active would have done anything for the Empire including suicide.
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I would say my loyalty is along the lines of Ishukone first, State Second. Mostly because I feel Ishukone has the State's better interest's in mind. ;)
No... Lai Dai has the State's better interest in mind. :P
When I first started RPing, I first looked at CAIN and didn't try to look anywhere else. The other option I found out about later was APEX.
At the same time I had a Gallente character (Dex Nedeland) at about the same skill level. I tried doing some Gallente RP later with Robbi d'Avalon, but I was already CEOing LDIS and building Robbi up took/takes time away from that, so he hasn't done much of anything in a while. He is to be a frontier Gallente from Solitude and was meant to explore the conflict between metropolitan culture and frontier culture.
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I have two main characters (and two minor ones) and they are all different, obviously. They represent different elements of myself in a way, and I use them to explore different areas of role play.
For Mammal, his loyalties go like this:
1) The Intaki
2) His Corpmates
3) His family
4) The Federation
5) Ishukone
For Val, his loyalties are:
1) His family (esp his sister)
2) God
3) Ishukone (and Ishukone-Raata- especially Sanya and John Revenent.)
4) The Intaki
5) The Khanid Kingdom
Some crossovers here, as Val was formerly in the ILF, but I've tried to play his religious side a bit lately.
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I could roleplay any faction, but Sansha's Nation and CONCORD are my absolute favorites.
I wish they'd band together already. :(
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Of my 3, one has been immutably Imperial since her inception. One is an Outcast Matari shamaness of sorts, and the other is Nation from the result of an open-end twist, though was originally a Federation nationalist. I find the concept of players having factional loyalty alien to my mindset.
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Very Interesting Thread!
I've had the luck (or unluck) that King Khanid never so much as says a word to any of us, so we've had plenty of wiggle room to sort of do our own thing for many years. Hard to have conflicts with your government when your government never speaks on the issues ;)
For Silas, something along these lines:
1. King Khanid
2. Khanid Kingdom
3. House Vitalia
4. KPV
5. Amarr Empire
I've been trying to work out some of the more nuanced issues a bit lately, as the tradition of practicality and realpolitik that the Kingdom represents is extremely important to Silas. Additionaly Silas supports the political view of the Empire as more of a loose collection of competing houses than any actual unified body. At least traditionaly we as the players got a LOT more information about the differences within the empire, until they shoe-horned Jamyl in and jammed the entire Amarrian race into one clean glass box for the FW launch....off topic sorry.
You'll notice that "God" is not on there, as I don't think Silas is actually overtly religious anymore than the average Amarrian in an authority position needs to be in order to get by. Of course not being overtly religious on the Amarrian scale of religiosity means a great deal different than in our society. God/etc is always present in public life, but it's not a priority to her the way that the betterment of her Kingdom and promoting Amarrian racial superiority are. She simply accepts faith/etc as a matter-of-fact part of life and generally doesn't give it a second thought. She could care less if the heathens are converted, it's their loss if they don't want to get with the program, etc. So long as they are subjugated in service of their betters, etc then it's of little consequence to her how it's done.
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I misread (I think) the original post and commented on my character's factional loyalty, when I think that the question was asking how much that loyalty had travelled into the OOC realm.
I think the commonality of my character's loyalties speaks to that in some ways. I am very loyal to the Intaki OOC, and though my other characters are Khanid, they are friends of the ILF.
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I have a Cartel jolly roger as my desktop background, how's that for loyalty? :yar:
I don't think I will ever see myself with another faction. This one is the one I've been supporting excepting the first half year of playtime, and I am having a lot of fun with it. Hasn't always been easy, for a long while it was a very "lonely" existence despite learning more and more of how we were not the first, or only and that there just was a lack of community causing groups to live in isolation from each other. I can't comment much on that since it was even before my time but right now I am working hard to get all Cartel (and Serpentis) groups to at least know of each others existence and get them together in one channel. Why? Because I don't want them to feel alone while I can help them be together.
Been asked a few times lately "Why the Cartel?". Well, I just kinda fell into this and never got out, or wanted to get out really. Could I support any other faction out there? I could. But likely I won't. I plan to stick with realizing my goals till the end of my EVE career (still some good years to go considering how long I stick with a good MMO on average) no matter how few or many will also choose to support the Cartel.
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uhm interesting question for a pro-federation gallentean loyalist like myself.....
I cannot have "too much" loyalty really, there is no such thing as "first the federation then me".....its not part of what the definition of gallentean means. We are an egocentric and individualistic culture.....
Also in a ironic way, the moment i see something i don't like in the Federation i go and write my senators and goverment representatives, rally up causes and simply become a pain in the ass to portray what is lacking or simply being done wrong......
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Shin doesn't have strong loyalties, it's one of her faults/freedoms, however you want to look at it. Last strong loyalty she had was to Omerta Syndicate and the State, but it was Omerta's fairly unusual view of the State. Like orange, she thinks Lai Dai points the way to a better State, and she is strongly anti-Ishukone.
She's also fairly strongly Sani-Sabik-aligned, though not to Omir Sarikusa's sect. But that's a sekrit! :D
Dakki, on the other hand, is mildly loyal to the Intaki Syndicate, and little else.
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Very strong.
And always to the Intaki.
Whether actively involved in the separatist movement (ILF) as Bataav, or the older, ex-activist turned corp CEO (while still pro-secession) who wants Intaki to prosper as Teutonii I can't imagine RPing any other faction. Two of Teutonii's corp employees are me too, but they will develop to be extremely loyal to Teutonii and so will probably mirror his own pro Intaki sentiments to varying degrees too despite being Jin-Mei and Brutor.
In fact as a player I wish the Intaki Assembly was an actual NPC I could mission for.
Bataav's loyalties mirror my own, and so his top 5 are:
1. The people of Intaki.
2. Even split between the ILF itself and the Secessionist dream. While other pro secessionist groups might pop up Bataav is ILF through and through, because of...
3. His Suresha, Saxon Hawke and to a lesser extent the rest of his corp mates.
4. Ishukone.
5. Mordu's Legion.
There was recently a topic on the ILF's forums which involved Bataav's Suresha Saxon discussing actively flying on active patrol with others in the corp and I realised... what if Saxon lost his ship? RP-wise I could imagine the IC impact on the fleet morale (OOC we'd all get on with the battle at hand of course, no offense Saxon :P). I realised that in such a situation, if game mechanics were to allow it, Bataav would be throwing his ship between the enemy fire and Saxon, RPing the sacrifice of his own crew so that his Suresha survived. Of course in the life of a capsuleer even being podded isn't the end of it all, it's more an inconvenience but I'm aware of the potential bragging rights it would give so those dastardly piratey types we get in our neck of the woods :s /me shakes his fist.
With Ishukone, I'd like to see the storyline between the Assembly and Ishukone develop over time. I think there's potential there for some interesting stuff in both the Federation and State.
Mordu's Legion is a bit of a plot spoiler for Bataav, but I'd like him to become involved more with the Legion as he tries to find his father. (All part of Bataav's background which is in the ILF forums and probably needs to be posted on Backstage to make sense to people who can't access it right now - note to self made...)
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I have a Cartel jolly roger as my desktop background, how's that for loyalty? :yar:
The Guristas Associates tattoo on the small of my back, Guristas skull on my right hip, and both Korako Kosakami and Jirai Laitanen's names tatooed in Japanese on my shoulder. <_<
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If you think Meb's a blooder, then you've got a lot to learn :twisted:
Me personally, I love the Bloods. I quite like a lot of factions tbh:
Blood Raider Covenant
Sansha
Thukker
Gal Fed (mostly the security service)
Gurista
SOE
EOM
Khanid
Makes RP'ing Meb so much easier: She's a faction to herself...
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When I first got into the game, I found myself drawn in the direction of Intaki RP. I have a tendency to gravitate towards the neglected/repressed minority types in games. As I grew in my knowledge of the factions, relationships, and rivalries of the EVE tapestry, however, it became Mordu's that I found the most interest in. Like Myrhial's early experience, this does come with a lack of like-minded folks to collaborate with, but on the other hand gives me a great deal of freedom in exploring possibilities without running into a wall of preconceived notions.
As a natural result of those interests, I'd say I've developed a "loyalty" to the liberal Caldari factional bloc. This has taken shape in the creation of IPREX (Ishukone Prosperity Exchange), my contribution and interpretation of the Ishukone/Intaki arc. However, I do have my bets hedged a bit and have thought of some possible responses to what might happen it turns out the connections there are nefarious in some way.
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Could I play another faction? Yes.
In practice, though, my main faction soaks up my gametime quite nicely. I could -- and very occasionally do -- play a character from a different part of the spectrum for a short stint of something hard and different.
There's another factor, though, that affects what I'd be willing to play. There are limits to the sorts of behaviours and patterns of thought that I want to practise and bed in. The things that I do regularly -- in game or not -- eventually, in some way, condition my real approaches and responses. Short visits to exotic psyches are illuminating: long postings mean I need to ask myself whether I really want to take on some of the habits of thought or worldview that I'm playing, and consider that when I choose whether to stay. That's got a lot to do with the character, but since I prefer to "play to the core" and play "typical" characters it's also affected by the faction's cultural milieu.
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I personally couldn't ever truly get my head into another Factions RP other than my Khanid/Amarr RP, specifically Math and his deep connections to both - I have a Caldari and Minmatar alt but I have never really gotten into their factional specifics more than just a general character base that I can do some light RP with, unlike Math'ra who has a deep and long history with his loyalties that are very prominent when poked.
As such, his loyalties are something like.
-Hitome Kei, Fiancee
-Mashtori
-Khanid Kingdom (Not specifically the king)
-TheHiede family.
-Khanid Provincial Vanguard
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-Amarrian Empire
Its noticable that he places Hitome above anything else, basically because he loves her so deeply - that and he values the life that two imortals can have over any short-lived gains that an Empire might have, the Mashtori because they are his adopted family now and then the Kingdom - but specifically not the king, this is in part due to his Mashtori affiliations and largely because he knows leaders die and change.
As for the Empire, which he has such a deep and tumultious history, he pretty much hates it right now - the amount of hypocrasy and corrupted ideals and general stupidity he sees has driven him away from it, his focus for that in the Capsule is now PIE - with whom he would more than like to reduce to little piles of slag if he had the chance.
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Not that strong, I think. Simon is pretty loyal to the Federation, for a whole host of reasons, some of them sinister (dum dum daaaaaah). Me? Not so much, and to be honest, I'm not that into it anymore. When I first started playing, just after building Simon, I started looking around at the world and, after a couple of years, I'm ready for something else. I think I like ORE :eek: But I'll always be a Duvolle fanatic in my heart of hearts.
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I have a Cartel jolly roger as my desktop background, how's that for loyalty? :yar:
The Guristas Associates tattoo on the small of my back, Guristas skull on my right hip, and both Korako Kosakami and Jirai Laitanen's names tatooed in Japanese on my shoulder. <_<
:eek:
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Rodj is pretty much Amarr until he dies.
I certainly can't imagine him flying for any other faction.
Within the Empire though, it's a bit more nuanced. When it comes to internal divisions he's the sort of person to side with whoever he thinks the winner will be.
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Ethan has pretty simple loyalties :
1) Selfless loyalty to Kyoko Sakoda, he'd happily be permanently be killed to ensure she was safe.
2) Veto Corp, in which he always acts for the betterment of the corporation, over any one person.
3) The Guristas, who's cause he will support until the bitter end.
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Within the Empire though, it's a bit more nuanced.
And this, for all you Amarr faction types out there, is why Rodj stays interesting despite having hewed to the same faction for God only knows how many years.
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IC Graanvlokkies loyalty is torn between his corporation, Sansha's Nation and the State. He has a great admiration for the Amarr Empire and has studied its religion intensely.
OOC I think the Amarr Empire is truly one of the best factions and even tried to steer Graanvlokkie in that direction. I think it was his rejection IC from the Amarr block that made him finally defect to Sansha's Nation, so my OOC plan for him to join the Amarr Empire didn't quite work out.
Am I the only person whose IC and OOC "loyalties" differ?
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Am I the only person whose IC and OOC "loyalties" differ?
No. IC, Dossie's getting bored of the Guristas, they don't really do anything for her so why should she offer them loyalty?
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OOC I think the Amarr Empire is truly one of the best factions and even tried to steer Graanvlokkie in that direction. I think it was his rejection IC from the Amarr block that made him finally defect to Sansha's Nation, so my OOC plan for him to join the Amarr Empire didn't quite work out.
Who in the Amarr Block rejected you?
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Ask one of my characters in-character how they feel about a group and chances are they will give an honest answer. ;)
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IC, my character's loyalties vary a bit, as one is a Serp, one's a psycho, one's essentially a non-entity as far as RP goes, and the fourth is a carebear in amarr hisec that doesn't give a damn about the empire.
OOC, I have roughly the same lack of attachment to any particular faction. I'm an RP junkie and can think of a dozen kinds of characters I'd like to play, but am limited by the number of accounts I can afford and the number of hours in a day. Otherwise, I think most of the pirate factions, Amarr, Minnie, maybe caldari would be a ton of fun. Really can't see myself getting into Gellente, except perhaps with the intaki folks.
So yeah... really no loyalty to any faction IC or OOC, although I'm developing a real soft spot for the Serps the more I play with them.
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I have a Cartel jolly roger as my desktop background, how's that for loyalty? :yar:
The Guristas Associates tattoo on the small of my back, Guristas skull on my right hip, and both Korako Kosakami and Jirai Laitanen's names tatooed in Japanese on my shoulder. <_<
I have 3 cartel desktops that I alternate between.(looking for a fourth just so I can have one for every week of the month if anyone knows of any good ones :D)
I have considered, and it still goes through my mind of getting a Cartel logo tattoo between my shoulder blades, but haven't completely settled on a design so not sure if I ever will.(I'm really indescisive about these things)
As for Embers loyalties they break down something like this.
1 - Angel Cartel
2 - Naraka. Alliance
3 - The other Cartel groups
4 - The Serpentis aligned groups
That's pretty much it. Ember still has a soft spot for those she has served with in the past as well as the State as a whole, but those four groups are pretty much the only people she won't shoot. Everyone else is either an asset to be used or an enemy.
OOCly I like alot of the different factions and could probably RP for most of them, but I think no matter what faction I do RP on any other characters I may eventually make I will always find myself returning to the Cartel.
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Originally when I created what would become Jesmine, I had a bit of a problem.
I, the player, like the Federation. I like their lore, the design quirks on their ships, stations, their weapons, their combat-styles, their stirring-pot culture(s), their ideals, the politics, the way they structure their little covenant of nations, their whole cause and the promises it can hold and the richness it can go to in RP, and I think it's sad that there are not as many who delve deeper into this than there are.
But, ultimately, what I like the most about the Federation is their duality; on one hand you have everything the Federation strives to be and tries to uphold – on the other, the side-effects of that struggle and what effect it has on them. The Federation is bad-ass, and frankly the arrival of FW added much needed visibility to their darker sides. The Federation is not perfect and never will be, but the constant struggle for that state of perfection interest me, along with the people who are part of that and all the different avenues of RP it can create for the players.
So, given this fact, I was worried how I was going to manage a pro-Empire Amarrian religiously convinced in her cause, instead of idealistically and culturally convinced as my only other two toons at the time was. It wasn't that big a problem in the end.
Must like the Federation, the Empire is also very dual in nature. They have everything they strive to reach – that divine goal that they aspire to share with everyone. Then there is the side-effects of that, and much like the Federation it's causing problems for them. Sometimes big problems. People simply don't build gigantic fleets for centuries to get to you, if everything is totally fine.
The fact is, the Empire and Federation have opposite problems in regards to how players view them; they have different ideals for how to do it, but both want what is “best” for humanity. The Federations darker side is hard to spot for most shallow* players, while the Empire's brighter side is the one hard to spot for most players, or so it seems.
*Most who merely glance at the Fed as a RP possibility fail to notice the darker sides to this faction, or simply don't think that playing to them is very interesting. On the other hand, for the Empire many seem to miss the brighter sides to the Amarr Empire in favor of the word SLAVERS printed on every surface of their image. I suspect a good reason the Empire seem to have more players is due the fact a theocratic 'evil' Empire is ultimately a lot cooler than a 'goodie-two-shoes' Federation. Once most players delve deeper in Amarr RP they can notice the nicer sides to it; there are no super-religious feudal-system states on this planet but Federation's are not that hard to find. Thus the Empire is more 'exotic', and there are fewer people who will delve deeper into Fed-RP than those who will look over Empire-RP.
I am however, getting slightly off topic here.
Alexander Kamyú Allisieer, is a Federal Intaki – an Assembly citizen and a patriot. He is ultimately loyal to the Federation so long as the Assembly is part of it; an extension of one's loyalty, if you will. Before that, he cares for his closest associates so long as they remain part of or don't conflict with, the Federation. Before the Assembly he's loyal to his family and closest friends.
Arivana Faersto, is one of Alex's oldest friends and have stuck with him for this long. Her loyalty is more directly tied with the Federation itself, not really having much of a home. Her friend(s) and associates before that however, so long as they remain friendly or at least neutral with the Federation.
Jesmine Aerim Kyriel, is an Imperial Holder and a religious Amarrian who take her responsibility seriously; the one she was entrusted with from God. She will support the cause of God and follow his will to the point where she's willing to continue her support for her House, no matter how small It may be or it's political and/or social status. She firmly believes that if the light of God is to reach everyone without the Empire being destroyed or destroying itself then there must be peace. Combine with this the fact she views slavery to be an extremely ineffective method of converting non-believers and you have a very disliked lord among hard-liners. Jesmine is willing to do anything it takes to bring the Empire to a position where it actually serve it's divinely appointed purpose, even if she one day may have to go up against it to do so.
As such... my 'factional loyalty' at this point is divided, about 60-40 between Federation and Empire, but it ultimately depend what character I play with at the time and what they decide to do. What is extremely unlikely however, is any sudden face-heel-turns and defections to other factions...
Ethan has pretty simple loyalties :
1) Selfless loyalty to Kyoko Sakoda, he'd happily be permanently be killed to ensure she was safe.
2) Veto Corp, in which he always acts for the betterment of the corporation, over any one person.
3) The Guristas, who's cause he will support until the bitter end.
That is very interesting. I don't think I will ever have any toons ask Verone out IC, so I'll ask here: Is there a spesific reason he would support the Guristas no matter what? Why exactly the Guriasta, why not any other faction?
Also, how did he come to ditch the Fed to begin with? He could in theory ended up being loyal to Kyoko in a version of Veto loyal to the Fed or any other faction, for that matter. If only her and Veto count besides the Guristas, I think it's nice to know why the Guristas get that kind of comitment.
Within the Empire though, it's a bit more nuanced.
And this, for all you Amarr faction types out there, is why Rodj stays interesting despite having hewed to the same faction for God only knows how many years.
I don't quite follow. Elaborate, please?
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Lall's priorities go along the lines of...
God
Family
Empire
At the moment Empress is the enemy, also by extension most of the Empire.
It's a tad tricky.
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The only reason I went Amarr in the first place was because my RL friend who brought me into the game was Amarr and told me to pick them. Things ended up working out pretty good for me, though.
After all this time, I'll always root for the Amarr OOC.
If, however, I ever wanted to switch sides, it'd be to the Federation. I see the Ammatar and Caldari as still supporting the Empire, just less directly (and I'd *never* go Khanid), and I've shot at the Minmatar for too long to ever consider going that way.
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Interesting question.
Istvaan started out as a Caldari corporate drone in Endless Corporation. Even in that era, though, the corporation he ran wasn't exactly pro-Caldari. Too busy building mysterious quasi-stargates that opened up to nowhere, and talking with weird alien entities via apparent telepathy, I suppose.
Once the Guiding Hand Social Club era came around, Istvaan was definitely focused on himself and his closest acquaintances/Slaver hounds. Became obsessed with survival. Or unkillability. Amassing assets, in the same way a 60s era redneck might amass canned goods in his bomb shelter, fearing some yet-undefined disaster. The voice in his head doesn't talk to him often in this era, but makes itself known regardless.
Post-GHSC... well, that part of the story ain't writ just yet.
I think the highest loyalty Istvaan has, is to his Slaver hound though. Dominus first (beheaded by angry ex-employee) then Anubis. I think he'd feel less regret seeing any of his corpmates die, than seeing his Slaver die. This is based on me. It's kind of sick to admit, but my grandmother dying in my arms didn't affect me emotion-wise nearly as much as having to put down one of my dogs has in the past.
So...
1. Self / Current pet Slaver (tie)
2. GHSC
Must say... having played the same character since day one is quite rewarding, if only to see its evolution :p
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My/my character's loyalty to the State is very, very strong. It's a bit of my loyalty, too, since I dislike the idea of playing multiple sides. RPing different sides feels a bit like...betraying my fellow Caldari RPers, at least to me. I don't believe I'll ever leave Caldari RP or even Caldari FW.
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When I announced the foundation of the ILF the general response from the IGS crowd was "What another Intaki group? How many of these are there now?" In truth, there were two active at the time, but neither matched my vision.
In the four years since, I have invested countless hours both in-game and out to developing that vision and it has largely been at the expense of even learning peripherally about the other factions. I know a lot about the Federation and a bit about the Caldari, but mostly only about how they relate to the Intaki cause. What I know about the Ammar, Khanid, Minmatar etc, could probably fit in a Tweet.
Saxon lives and breathes Intaki sepratism and quite frankly not a day goes by that I don't think about it myself, even if I can only log in and play Eve once a week. For me there could never be a faction to take the place of Intaki separatism.
The great irony is that if CCP did break off the Intaki into their own nation, I'm not sure what I'd do. Saxon the character would be ready to retire and enjoy a quiet life of reflection with his family.
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1.Friends
2.Money/Friendly PMC's(You know you screw one merc over you screw all the mercs over)
3.Caldari Navy
4.Ishukone
5.The State
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I think I'll agree with KJLLV and that OOC loyalties to a faction is also alien. My effort into developing the Federation is only as far as a creative endeavour, hobbyist, etc.
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I think the loyalties of my characters should be fairly obvious. I keep being reminded that they're not.
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I think I'll agree with KJLLV and that OOC loyalties to a faction is also alien. My effort into developing the Federation is only as far as a creative endeavour, hobbyist, etc.
What was it about the federation that put them above the other factions for your creative endeavour?
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Within the Empire though, it's a bit more nuanced.
And this, for all you Amarr faction types out there, is why Rodj stays interesting despite having hewed to the same faction for God only knows how many years.
I don't quite follow. Elaborate, please?
Sorry, I missed this, earlier.
What I was trying to point out there is that so many people treat faction loyalty as an all-or-nothing affair. "I am a Caldari. I love the State. I support anything the State does. The enemies of the State are my own enemies."
I'm using my own former faction, by the way, as a simple example. You see this all over the place with every faction.
Compare that with people in real life, who's opinions tend to be a lot more nuanced about things. Say I'm a Republican in the U.S., for instance. That doesn't mean that I'm automatically going to agree with each and every thing the Republican Party says. Or say I'm Russian, and work for the government. Does that mean that any brain fart that comes out of President Medvedev's mouth should be gospel to me? Of course not.
Rodj demonstrates this sort of thing really well. He lives in a very politically restrictive society, a theocracy in which the Empress is both blessed and backed by God. And yet that doesn't prevent him from having very real opinions about things that he feels work well in the Empire, and things he feels should change. As he said, his views of things within the Empire are nuanced, and it's that nuance that makes his character fresh after all these years, instead of just a cardboard cutout.
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Compare that with people in real life, who's opinions tend to be a lot more nuanced about things. Say I'm a Republican in the U.S., for instance. That doesn't mean that I'm automatically going to agree with each and every thing the Republican Party says. Or say I'm Russian, and work for the government. Does that mean that any brain fart that comes out of President Medvedev's mouth should be gospel to me? Of course not.
This is an interesting point. With Vikarion - and with other some Caldari loyalists, I've noticed, discussion within the circle of Caldari loyalists can be quite fierce. However, to the rest of the cluster, most of us seek to provide a united front. This might make us less interesting to outsiders, but it is in line with the Caldari mindset, I think.
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Compare that with people in real life, who's opinions tend to be a lot more nuanced about things. Say I'm a Republican in the U.S., for instance. That doesn't mean that I'm automatically going to agree with each and every thing the Republican Party says. Or say I'm Russian, and work for the government. Does that mean that any brain fart that comes out of President Medvedev's mouth should be gospel to me? Of course not.
This is an interesting point. With Vikarion - and with other some Caldari loyalists, I've noticed, discussion within the circle of Caldari loyalists can be quite fierce. However, to the rest of the cluster, most of us seek to provide a united front. This might make us less interesting to outsiders, but it is in line with the Caldari mindset, I think.
Very interesting points, and I like the way you've phrased that Vikarion.
There's a very interesting mix of 'public face' and 'behind the scenes' interactions amongst faction groups. I'd love to be a fly on the wall on some inner circle caldari, gallente, or matari conversations, as I think they'd be very fascinating, especially with regards to public solidarity and internal bickering.
As was mentioned earlier Rodj does and continues to do a great IC job of staying nuanced as much as possible while still towing the party line.
I have to disagree slightly with Shintoko though, as in real life there are more than plenty of people who absolutely agree with everything their leaders or religion say, and aren't nuanced at all in how we see their actions. Anybody whose ever blown themselves up with a vest or committed horrible acts of war in the name of a religion or tortured in the name of a government fall into these categories, and we have plenty of examples over many thousands of years.
Amarrians being Amarrians, there's often a mixture of egotism, hubris, being quick to anger, and long to forget supposed insults that keep it interesting for me. Silas is emotional enough to let differences spill into public when she's upset or it suits her. And public 'rabble rousing' Silas is very different than private conversation Silas. I wrestle sometimes with when to push it and when to lighten up, but for every person who tells me to IC/OOC stay unified I have others who IC/OOC consider being so uncompromising/hardassed/unlikable a breathe of fresh air. * shrug *
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Compare that with people in real life, who's opinions tend to be a lot more nuanced about things. Say I'm a Republican in the U.S., for instance. That doesn't mean that I'm automatically going to agree with each and every thing the Republican Party says. Or say I'm Russian, and work for the government. Does that mean that any brain fart that comes out of President Medvedev's mouth should be gospel to me? Of course not.
This is an interesting point. With Vikarion - and with other some Caldari loyalists, I've noticed, discussion within the circle of Caldari loyalists can be quite fierce. However, to the rest of the cluster, most of us seek to provide a united front. This might make us less interesting to outsiders, but it is in line with the Caldari mindset, I think.
I agree with this, Syyl has made some public statements that are openly critical of the Loyalist/Provist bloc, but even those were restrained somewhat. It is less out of a sense of collective loyalty and more of a "don't bite the hand that feeds" sort of motivation. Yaan'su, being Achura might feel more connected to the overall culture (and as a result, doesn't make public statements), but Syyl is a refugee from Syndicate and isn't quite so entirely "Caldari".
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:D
Just read the OP instead of skimming through it.
As a player I chose the Amarrian faction because to me politically it seemed the least repulsive.
Individuality within a religious society, within the norms, is encouraged.
Also the fact that I like arts, especially the Eastern Orthodox iconic pictures, big churches and whatnot, therefore a hierarchical society would have a class within the population that just creates art that is inspiring in a way that would encourage elevation of the Spirit.
Music, architecture, entertainment, religious imagery and other art made with respect for the actual Craft of creating the end product.
No mass production, society where things were made with human hands with respect for the whole process.
Also this implies that there is respect towards the items and their makers, therefore the hierarchy of the society have within itself a natural cycle of respect that would generate the glue that would hold the society together.
Decisions made on every level of the society made on basis of what is right instead of what is profitable.
Then the slavery bit as well, I am a finn, I do not have the societal baggage that comes with slavery in the States, I am more familiar with the scandinavian kind and what it was like in the Roman times.
For Romans a slave was an investment, it was not maltreated and its needs was taken care of, unless it misbehaved, then it would get beaten down like a misbehaving dog (dehumanization as a concept has been very interesting to me.)
For scandinavians slavery, as I see it, was a form of debt, once it was repaid you were free.
In both cases you were property, with material value, if you were damaged then it would be compensated to the owner, therefore slaves were not abused willy nilly, because it was not financially sound to do so.
The concept of the Amarrian slavery was something along those lines, a slave was in debt to God for the sins of its forefathers and could not be free until that debt had been paid.
In the bigger perspective to me it was clear that the society as a whole, in the Empire, was in debt to God for its existence, therefore the society served God.
Those that had served God for the longest time were higher in the hierarchy of the Empire, the interesting bit, for me, was that the process had been ongoing for millenia, therefore it had to have a lot of inbuilt measures that would deal with all kinds of different disturbances in the fabric of the society.
On top of that we had the Holders, human beings that lived for centuries (One of my favourite books is The Artificial Kid by Bruce Sterling, where the subject is approached in an interesting way.) With such perspective over human interaction the capabilities of the Holders would be unimaginable to a regular person like me, everyone has intuition, I am one of the people that believe that intuition is nothing but using your previous life experience to give you information on a subconscious level, therefore a Holder that had the experience of centuries would be able to create a tapestry of intrigue and manipulation quite beyond the understanding of a regular citizen of the Empire (or me.)
To have a character in a society with such width and depth... it was truly a challenge.
So yes, as a player I was quite impressed by the Amarrians and I threw myself into playing one.
Of course, at one point of my playing career I joined PIE, therefore it caused the scope of my interest grow.
First I picked apart the Minmatar society for the purpose of being able to actually interact with Minmatar characters (instead of just playing the stereotypical racist card.)
Around that time the neuromancer forums opened up (it was run by some player that had a Minmatar character, or at least was on the other side of the Amarr-Minnie conflict) where we had epic discussions about how we perceived our chosen societies and how the opposition perceived them, how PF fitted into the whole thing, how things worked in real life, how they worked in New Eden and at some point the neuromancer admin had to shut the place down, so we emigrated to Chatsubo.
Around that time Herko was still active, Pulgor took it upon himself to be the admin of Chatsubo, Ginger was still Khaldorn, stories were written, shared, fun was had by all.
Things went really downhill after we got some people that just came along to piss in the pool after that.
During that interaction Lallara got more depth, was more fleshed out, New Eden became more than just a setting, it became a living world that followed similar laws of causality that ours did.
To me the stage that was New Eden got bigger and bigger, and it had more than enough space for everyone.
Along came Theodicy, that was torn apart, it was ridiculed, pointed at and snickered at.
Then CCP made its writer the storyline boss.
Then TEA came along.
And EVE turned into shit.
But yeah, only faction that I really care about is the idealized Amarrian one, the one that is around at the moment really does not inspire me one bit.
...and I'm off to get some brekkies.
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I think I'll agree with KJLLV and that OOC loyalties to a faction is also alien. My effort into developing the Federation is only as far as a creative endeavour, hobbyist, etc.
What was it about the federation that put them above the other factions for your creative endeavour?
Good question, I am a fan of "future Earth" sort of sci-fi. Or post-contemporay, ie. take a RL location, and sci-fi it, or EVE it up. That's my favourite sort of worldbuilding, which I felt the Federation had the largest scope for it, on virtue of having 1) a lack of absolute lore and 2) CCP consistently hammers 'diverse diverse diverse'.
Look at a system. Is it near the Republic border? Likely has a lot of Minmatar immigrants then. This system in Placid has a temperate world, lowsec, so likely flat-roofed wood/stone buildings of the Intaki, but it's also got Roden Shipyards and Wiyrkomi in the system, so how does that work?
How does the relationship between the various races exist under a democratic system? And so on.
Also, I support Shintoko's statement. Seri gets called a "Roden whipping boy" which is funny really, because he doesn't support Roden and dislikes politicians. Soldiers aren't political by default, either. In fact, if people pay attention, Seri is extremely cynical about the Federation and has a large amount of self-satire. But there is a "larger picture", which is more important than his personal opinions regarding populism etc
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As a player I chose the Amarrian faction because to me politically it seemed the least repulsive.
OK, weird. The Empire struck me as one of the more obviously screwed up societies of the cluster.
With regard to your observations on Roman style slavery. My understanding is a slave could earn freed status. However most agricultural and mine slaves would be worked to death. Mainly because there would always be a supply of new ones.
Also you have the arena. Making people kill each other for your entertainment is not something that is considered sane behaviour these days, no?
The Amarrian empire struck me as a place where conformity to the expectations of the faith as a whole, and to the expectations of your feudal overlord, would be a crushing load on most subjects. This would surely be more apparent to anyone who had ventured outside it's borders and seen other ways of doing things.
As for me.
I play a Minmatar because the friends that got me involved where doing so. My character is a former base brat (child of a serving officer in the Republic Fleet marines) and is heavily invested in protecting his people and their culture. However he has travelled and has been exposed to other ways of thinking.
As a player I find it difficult to contemplate playing a character who would be completely anti-Republic. However I might try playing a pirate at some point (most likely Gurista, Angel or Serpentis in their loyalties).
Also. As a player I can see that the Minmatar social model has it's faults. But every society does. The only question is do the benefits make it worth tolerating them? I'd say the question is still open because the Minmatar approach to tribalism is not one we have seen in practice to my knowledge. Bear in mind they did build a global culture that got off their homeworld prior to being invaded. That would seem to imply they had eventually discovered a way to moderate the more destructive expressions of competition between tribal groups.
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I have to disagree slightly with Shintoko though, as in real life there are more than plenty of people who absolutely agree with everything their leaders or religion say, and aren't nuanced at all in how we see their actions.
Oh, I totally agree, actually. You see that sort of blind agreement - we call it the "Authoritarian Follower" thing in my family - both in real life and among Eve characters. It's just that the people who support a system without buying 100% into whatever the current leaders of that system are tend to have the most interesting discussions about it. But all of them (in game, at least) are valuable to the faction and to the game as a whole.
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Benji tries to unite everyone, but utterly fails. Other than that, he likes Ishukone and Intaki culture.
Also I'm not a player anymore what
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Kazuma's loyalities tend to go:
Sarum Family (guess it started with the first corp I joined, Ebon Seraph)
Khanid Royal Navy / Amarr Navy
Khanid Kingdom / Amarr Empire
King Khanid / Empress Jamyl
Family / Friends
Corp
As for what Kazuma will fly, he will only fly Amarr Hulled ships (exception being Ore designed ships, and the Blood raider ships (granted I don't have the pilot skills to fly them yet)). Also he only uses Amarr Combat drones, (exception goes to the none combat drones)
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Well, basically before choosing a faction to support with my character I kind of went through all the factions and what kind of battlecries they would have.
Caldari
'For State/Megacorp of choice!' or 'Remember Caldari Prime!'
Gallente
'For Freedom!'
Amarr
'For God!'
Minmatar
'For our Brothers/Clan/Tribe' or 'Kill the Amarrians!'
Basically Caldari and Minmatari had in this approach pretty much the same motivations for their military endeavours.
Vengeance and loyalty to a national entity, or a smaller entity, that is closer to your personal set of beliefs.
To say that both have defensive dogma in their military is a valid point, Minmatar of course want to protect themselves against the Empire bulldozing them (again) just like the Caldari have with the Gallente. Both have an offensive aspect to their military culture with the Freedom Fighters for the Minmatar and Mercenaries for the Caldari. The problem for me as a player was that I would not want to play a character in a culture that was primarily motivated by fear.
The Gallenteans, uhhhh, well 'Freedom' is the most malleable propaganda tool that you can come across. When you ask people what true freedom is, each and every one will give you a different answer. When you have society that uses such a term in the way they control their population the whole society to me comes off as monomaniacal. Obsession with one aspect of the human equation, an aspect that is defined by every single person in a different way, to me is a horrible, horrible thing. A society that is controlled by creatively using that concept to mean just about everything, freedom to bear arms, freedom to fuck a goat in the public, freedom to kill those that have wronged you, freedom to serve My God, freedom to express my own beliefs by practicing paedophilia, the list could go on and on. I guess what I want to illustrate is the fact that the concept of Freedom is perceived as something good, while the concept itself is neutral, varies from individual to individual and can be used for both 'Good' and 'Evil'. There are other concepts that have the same versatility 'Eugenics' and 'Competition' are the first two that spring into my mind. Therefore playing a character in a culture that had nothing but chaos in it, did not come off as a good way to spend my time.
Amarrians, well. 'Religion' is also a versatile concept that can be bent to whatever shape necessary to get the wanted result. The difference between the broad concept of 'Religion' and in the Amarrian concept of religion is the fact that the Amarrian concept is very, very structured. Well, at least that is how it seemed to me in the beginning of my playing career in EVE. Amarrians had the Scriptures that covered every aspect of society, how to do things the way you served God and the 'other way'. Playing a character that would serve God would be very safe in the Amarrian faction. Hell, I come from a culture that is very scandinavian. In the words of Bjork 'thought I could organize freedom/how scandinavian of me' of course a very organized society would appeal to me.
Hence the Amarrians took the cake, this is just on top of the reasons that I have mentioned earlier.
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Well, basically before choosing a faction to support with my character I kind of went through all the factions and what kind of battlecries they would have.
Caldari
'For State/Megacorp of choice!' or 'Remember Caldari Prime!'
Gallente
'For Freedom!'
Amarr
'For God!'
Minmatar
'For our Brothers/Clan/Tribe' or 'Kill the Amarrians!'
This image from the movie called The Mummy comes to mind when you mention you don't know what Faction to support.
[spoiler](http://alicia-logic.com/capsimages/my_072KevinJOConnor.jpg)[/spoiler]
Also I'm gonna have to rail you about the State bit hear though I'm sure It wouldn't be uncommon as say a compeitition of sorts to support your megacorp because in the state you live and work for your mega corp. Though usually it just be for the state as individualism is neglected upon in the state. Problem si the caldari are usually a silent people so public support like that would be minimal I'd assume
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When I started the game I had no idea of what faction RP to play. Most of it came from my choice to join the CVA, actually. That way I got enticed by the NRDS ideals and instead of discovering the bad sides of the amarr empire, and especially the reclaiming, I saw the opposite : a more moral reclaiming.
Having then played since my first corporations a more or less RP "close to the Society ideals" (because I still find this scientist faction amazing to play), my character has always been quite detached of the Ammatar Mandate she was born in, and has traveled a lot. Her loyalties would always come to :
1) Truth / Science / God
2) The unified Empire (Khanid, Amarr, Ammatar), The CVA
3) CONCORD, even if this is a minor point due to its multiple stains and weaknesses that occured recently.
Concerning the player, my factionnal loyalties are quite nonexistant. But this has been less and less true as much as I have defended the Amarr Empire : you get attached to it. But I sometimes feel the envy to play something else, probably caldari, or even gallente, or SOE, whatever, except maybe minmatar (does not really tempt me, maybe on a biased experience).
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Also I'm gonna have to rail you about the State bit hear though I'm sure It wouldn't be uncommon as say a compeitition of sorts to support your megacorp because in the state you live and work for your mega corp. Though usually it just be for the state as individualism is neglected upon in the state. Problem si the caldari are usually a silent people so public support like that would be minimal I'd assume
I'd really like to know how this whole bit about the Caldari being silent at one sporting event in TBL is prima facie evidence that the whole culture is "quiet". Every other source of PF we have about the Caldari - that I am aware of - portrays them as rambunctious, unruly, competitive, rebellious, and expressive. Remember, the old character creator had the Caldari with tattoos, they are portrayed as loving sports and gambling, and they often hire out as mercenaries. Silent is, from my perceptions and reading of the PF, the very last thing the Caldari are. Yes, they are subtle and cunning at times, but those do not imply silence either.
In addition, while they are "collectivist" in nature, they certainly aren't so economically in any way. I like to think of it as such: if you had a group of Gallente and gave them a ball, they'd probably invent a game where everyone chased the person who had the ball. If you gave the Caldari a ball, they'd form teams with the objective of violently taking the ball from the other side. They like to form teams, groups, and then go do something.
But a silent culture? I really can't see that at all.
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"rambunctious, unruly, competitive, rebellious, and expressive"
Sounds like those darned Gallentean and Minmatar youth to me. "Unquestioning loyalty" to a corporation doesn't sound rebellious or unruly (though there are of course dissedents). Self-expression is similarly a Gallente/Minmatar thing, with the fashion of the former, and the tattoos of the latter.
Anyway, perhaps people should consider character before faction? My own allegiance is to the UK not because of standing for freedom, good governance, people's welfare, cups of tea etc. etc. but because simply I've grown up here, and this is my country. Similarly with Seriphyn, it's not like "I serve the Federation because I believe in it" (and if he didn't he'd go join the Empire for some bizarre reason), but because he's grown up there, and that's shaped who he is. He's cynical and satirical about most things, realizing that freedom/liberty is just a PR tool, but does realize there are some truths to it. He thinks it's the best place to live purely because he would be a very different person if he lived somewhere else.
Of course, that is a massive retrospect. When I first started, it was because "yay democracy good guys" back when I was a rookie RP and utter newb.
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"rambunctious, unruly, competitive, rebellious, and expressive"
Sounds like those darned Gallentean and Minmatar youth to me. "Unquestioning loyalty" to a corporation doesn't sound rebellious or unruly (though there are of course dissedents). Self-expression is similarly a Gallente/Minmatar thing, with the fashion of the former, and the tattoos of the latter.
I view all of the factions as much more multi-dimensional than that. I think there is ample evidence that the Caldari have a deep creative and artistic streak. I would also say that just because Caldari have a variety of cultural pressures, that doesn't mean they can't, don't, or wouldn't express themselves.
I would agree with Vikarion about 'rambunctious, unruly, competitive, rebellious, and expressive'. I think that it is the form it takes that would show marked differences from the Gallente or Minmatar. That is, I think most often Caldari work on the level of some collective entity, rather than as individuals - particularly when it comes to the competitive and rebellious parts. Whether it's at the level of a corporation, a department, or some other organization.
I think there might be this impression that the Caldari culture is this very set and old thing where everyone and their interactions are carefully delineated by the culture. That doesn't mesh with the fact that aside from the Minmatar, the Caldari have gone through more change, more recently, than virtually any other culture in Eve. The war, the ascension of corporations as a form of government, the exile, etc.
Edit: And to bring things back on-topic, I've had a Caldari keychain for the past 4 or 5 years. ;)
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And, as usual, Silver says it more concisely than I can, in a nicer way. :P
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And, as usual, Silver says it more concisely than I can, in a nicer way. :P
The only follow-up to it is - Why isn't Silver running a mega's capsuleer counterpart?
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The only follow-up to it is - Why isn't Silver running a mega's capsuleer counterpart?
When I recruited Silver into Re-Awakened, he said he'd only accept if we promised never to promote him into a position of responsibility, like ever.
I suspect that he's not really cut out for running a mega-corp.
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The only follow-up to it is - Why isn't Silver running a mega's capsuleer counterpart?
When I recruited Silver into Re-Awakened, he said he'd only accept if we promised never to promote him into a position of responsibility, like ever.
I suspect that he's not really cut out for running a mega-corp.
IIRC, I actually talked to him about it at the time; he wasn't/isn't interested in helping run a corporation. I simply didn't remember when I posted.
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Also I'm gonna have to rail you about the State bit hear though I'm sure It wouldn't be uncommon as say a compeitition of sorts to support your megacorp because in the state you live and work for your mega corp. Though usually it just be for the state as individualism is neglected upon in the state. Problem si the caldari are usually a silent people so public support like that would be minimal I'd assume
I'd really like to know how this whole bit about the Caldari being silent at one sporting event in TBL is prima facie evidence that the whole culture is "quiet". Every other source of PF we have about the Caldari - that I am aware of - portrays them as rambunctious, unruly, competitive, rebellious, and expressive. Remember, the old character creator had the Caldari with tattoos, they are portrayed as loving sports and gambling, and they often hire out as mercenaries. Silent is, from my perceptions and reading of the PF, the very last thing the Caldari are. Yes, they are subtle and cunning at times, but those do not imply silence either.
To be fair, and without trying to derail the thread.
I wouldn't use the words "rebellious" or "unruly" pre se. The Caldari can be forceful when they want to be, yes, as shown by the war against the Federation. In that sense, they can be rebellious.
However, I compare their rambunctious behavior more to ancient soldiers of Greece or Rome. The Legionnaires and Myrmidons (yes, I mythic examples count) could be considered highly energetic and competitive, not unlike the Civire. However, their loyalty was nothing but undying, and they followed their leadership more zealously than other soldiers of the time.
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As a player I've no particular loyalties to one faction over another but I have a certain fondness for the Gallente Federation. I've always liked the Feds, perhaps because I started as a Federation RPer and the description at the time suited my interests the most. Maybe i see the Feds similar to B5 with the Black Eagles as they Psicorp aspect or that Much of the Federation reminds me of New Systems Commonwealth from Andromeda - High ideals and dark truths. The years old Fed shirt is my favourite and I still enjoy my coffee and tea from the Fed mug.
IC Vince's loyalties lie with the Guristas faction wise, though it is certainly under a lot of strain due to Venal still being aligned with Kuvakei and his Nation. He has a good deal of personal issues about the Nation.
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I has a sekrit.
Kazzzi doesn't really care about slaves.
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Also I'm gonna have to rail you about the State bit hear though I'm sure It wouldn't be uncommon as say a compeitition of sorts to support your megacorp because in the state you live and work for your mega corp. Though usually it just be for the state as individualism is neglected upon in the state. Problem si the caldari are usually a silent people so public support like that would be minimal I'd assume
I'd really like to know how this whole bit about the Caldari being silent at one sporting event in TBL is prima facie evidence that the whole culture is "quiet". Every other source of PF we have about the Caldari - that I am aware of - portrays them as rambunctious, unruly, competitive, rebellious, and expressive. Remember, the old character creator had the Caldari with tattoos, they are portrayed as loving sports and gambling, and they often hire out as mercenaries. Silent is, from my perceptions and reading of the PF, the very last thing the Caldari are. Yes, they are subtle and cunning at times, but those do not imply silence either.
To be fair, and without trying to derail the thread.
I wouldn't use the words "rebellious" or "unruly" pre se. The Caldari can be forceful when they want to be, yes, as shown by the war against the Federation. In that sense, they can be rebellious.
However, I compare their rambunctious behavior more to ancient soldiers of Greece or Rome. The Legionnaires and Myrmidons (yes, I mythic examples count) could be considered highly energetic and competitive, not unlike the Civire. However, their loyalty was nothing but undying, and they followed their leadership more zealously than other soldiers of the time.
I actually rather enjoy this discussion, any way we could get it moved to thread specifically about the Caldari State?
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RL, my main loyalties go to my winged munkehz.
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Nikita's extremely loyal to the cartel, this is mostly because they let her be the ruthless monster she is, and play into her sociopathy.
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I've never been able to break out of a trend of playing the iconic military men who lack sins in their pasts and do everything for "king and country" (past examples include a Royal Navy captain (http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43738) in the MMO "Pirates of the Burning Sea," and a first sergeant (http://database.ucip.org/bio/view_individual.cgi?ID=5875) in Star Trek RP). I've tried RP'ing in the past as criminals, or shadowy cloak-and-dagger figures with mysterious pasts, but inevitably I find I can't associate with them and develop the characters. (I realize it's bland compared to other more colorful characters but it's what I do well.)
So when I play there's always been a strong military spin to my actions, thoughts, and calculations, and this influences factional loyalty. Loyalty to the Caldari Navy can and will always trump loyalty to the Caldari State.
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Casiella's loyalties are not what they apparently seem.
Like Vieve, I think they should be obvious, but from time to time it becomes clear that that's not the case.