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[Sofia Roseburn]

That said, how influential is your average Joe in the empire & what are their chances of getting into capsule training? I take your point though. It would be nice to see more of the poor sentient made good alongside all the children of privilege.

Privilege provides easier access to the technology, and greater visibility for candidates. There's going to be an inherent lack of poorer candidates as a result, due to proper/superior standards of healthcare, education etc.

Not saying it's a bad idea to have children from poorer backgrounds, but there's a strong case for there being a limited number, not a vase swathe of them.

[Lyn Farel]

Which brings to mind... are we going to start claiming that characters who are in the NPC corporations are actually IN those corporations ICly, even when it makes no sense? Come on. Let's not stifle creativity here.

But everybody knows i'm a secret agent for the Brutor Tribe !

We're playing a game that gives you quite a lot of in-game opportunities to create content and gain achievements, so it's a bit of a shame that so much 'worldbuilding' is done outside the game's sphere and in a scale that is super important. There's a difference between, say, the description of colonies and entities within 4th's sphere of influence and me creating a character that is a super important head honcho of a few million people in his off time, hidden somewhere unreachable ( by in game means ).

To be honest i've done plenty of that in the past. Created my own corp, got involved in RP, got the executorship of a nullsec alliance over a constellation, got my hours of glory as FC in cleaning Solitude biggest (actually rather sloppy) alliance of pirates, then added my print in FW and IGS flaming shenanigans.

I find that a bit limited and boring these days though. Ingame mechanics are not always the best RP material, sadly. Sometimes they work, sometimes, they are just bland (i'm looking at you FW). But overall whatever you do ingame, it is mostly non consequential, or vain. What becomes interesting is not the fight between the Gallente Militia and the Caldari Militia over Mantenault per se, but what happens on the planet because of that... And what happened on the planet was pure world building, as usual.

However i'm not sure to see which world building events that are super scale important you are referring to ? We may see from time to time new characters that claim to have killed millions or that kind of things, but that seems pretty localized and not very impactful... I don't see much of these.

[Karmilla Strife]

It's fairly easy to suspend disbelief of a character or organization claiming loyalty or membership to an official NPC group. Also more people are willing to accept such claims because they expect other players to accept their character's claims of allegiance.

It takes a bit more work to believe a character claiming ownership of large territories. It can be done however, through repetition of the claim and in-game behavior. If somebody says they own a system, and they are consistently there, doing whatever it is they do, it's a bit more believable. It's even better if it's null and they can actually own it.

[orange]

There is no way to substantiate that “Pyre Falcon Defence Combine is the Secure Commerce Commission registered conglomerate of subsidiary private military corporations acting in the interests of Kaalakiota. Wiyrkomi and Lai Dai Corporations” etc. etc. But what is the basis of rp then?

Actually, in this case, I think the statement you quoted can very much be substantiated.

The SCC is a part of CONCORD that manages the market we all trade on, in effect the claim is that DUTY. is indeed registered with CONCORD and interacts on the SCC managed market.  An alliance of corporations can be a conglomerate of subsidiaries, all owned by a holding company.  I am pretty sure DUTY.'s primary activities is shooting stuff thus PMC and I am pretty sure they are focused on shooting Feds in Black Rise and Placid thus are acting in the interests of KK, Wiyrkomi, and Lai Dai (who effectively own Black Rise and lay corporate claim to northern Placid).

So, the only area where any stretching need be done is regarding the SCC registration.

I find that a bit limited and boring these days though. Ingame mechanics are not always the best RP material, sadly. Sometimes they work, sometimes, they are just bland (i'm looking at you FW). But overall whatever you do ingame, it is mostly non consequential, or vain. What becomes interesting is not the fight between the Gallente Militia and the Caldari Militia over Mantenault per se, but what happens on the planet because of that... And what happened on the planet was pure world building, as usual.

I think part of the challenge with FW is the consequences and benefits of conquest are largely decoupled from the resources of the systems.  Militia corporations are probably not knocking down POCOs in the systems they conqueror in order to setup their own and begin colonizing the planet with their own PI.   So agreed, the mechanics can make things difficult.

However, taking the example of 4TH's planetary colonies - they actually exist in game and can be isolated.  4TH has a program by which any friendlies can request to temporarily join a 4TH corp, setup their colonies, and then leave and continue to access/maintain the colony.  (I should probably write up some story around that).

If you want to claim planet-spanning holdings - train a few alts to do basic PI, form a small corporation, give your main all the shares, and say you have holdings on X number of planets and then list them if people say "no you don't!"

[Arista Shahni]

Well tbh the Amarr Navy doesn't designate who is in charge in a military strategy based on what rank they hold in nobility.  So in that respect the IC inference is wrong to the NPC arm of the Navy.  Unless all of the people who jumped into a live argument said such things for solely my benefit.  9But I'm prtty sure it is also in Navy PF).

As for the rest, doesn't bother me as I'm not a holder or nobility.

[Merdaneth]

But what is the basis of rp then?

The basis of RP is creating something imaginary that other people will want believe in and interact with.

As for the argument given in the post, this is no different in game than it is IRL. If I claim that I am a billionaire, people will ask for some evidence. If I claim to have $10 on my wallet, everybody will believe me without bothering to check. I can still make people believe I'm a billionaire while I'm not by presenting myself properly, but the more extreme my claims, the more suspicious people will be. EVE is no different. Has nothing to do with being able to 'prove' something or not, just with making it believable.

[Vikarion]

Good god, it's a fucking game. If people don't make up stuff, there will be nothing to hate, destroy, or argue over. If I don't like how someone RPs, I just shoot them or refuse to interact with them. In my opinion, the IGS is an arena for posting cool stuff and scoring cheap points.

That said, Gesa's post was fucking hilarious.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Well tbh the Amarr Navy doesn't designate who is in charge in a military strategy based on what rank they hold in nobility.  So in that respect the IC inference is wrong to the NPC arm of the Navy.  Unless all of the people who jumped into a live argument said such things for solely my benefit.  9But I'm prtty sure it is also in Navy PF).

As for the rest, doesn't bother me as I'm not a holder or nobility.

Look at the British Royal Family. The fact that most Princes serve in the military is illustrative here - while they are deployed their position in an operation is dependent upon their military rank, not their rank in the peerage.

I'll grant you that the officer who tries to browbeat a future king is making a poor career move (under many circumstances) and I imagine that truth is also in the Imperial Navy.

[Seriphyn]

Good god, it's a fucking game. If people don't make up stuff, there will be nothing to hate, destroy, or argue over.

[Elmund Egivand]

But what is the basis of rp then?

The basis of RP is creating something imaginary that other people will want believe in and interact with.

As for the argument given in the post, this is no different in game than it is IRL. If I claim that I am a billionaire, people will ask for some evidence. If I claim to have $10 on my wallet, everybody will believe me without bothering to check. I can still make people believe I'm a billionaire while I'm not by presenting myself properly, but the more extreme my claims, the more suspicious people will be. EVE is no different. Has nothing to do with being able to 'prove' something or not, just with making it believable.

At least in Eve, when you claim to be a multi-billionaire and some skeptic asks for proof, you can always just undock and park an officer-fit Archon right outside his station.

Also, more Amarrians need to make grandiose claims and collect titles like stamps. I know it's incredulous, and it's going to ruffle alot of feathers, but as shown in the linked thread, it makes for GREAT COMEDY! I want to see more Amarrians squabbling over who gets command and showing off their long, long list of titles to one up each other while their Abaddons are exploding all around them.

[Lyn Farel]

It might also participate in what has bee, decried over the years in PF news where Amarrians were always portrayed as goofy idiots.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

I am really not a fan of the "yes you are"/"no you aren't" style of argument that was one of the themes of the threads being mocked by Veik. There has to be a better way to handle that sort of conflict, though I haven't quite put my finger on what can be done once a disagreement like that gets going. I tried to move it away by making the whole discussion about bigger things, but while I have had fun trotting out 8 year old anti-tetrimon arguments and lots of fire and brimstone... I don't think I was quite able to drag the discussion far enough from the "Yes you are, no you aren't dynamic."

Nico did never argue whether Odelya is a holder or not. She simply denied Odelya to address her as one. vOv I also liked the RP around that, so I rolled with it.

I think all the debate about whether People are 'allowed' to claim in their RP to be this or that is covered by what Merdaneth said: Everyone is free to claim as he or she likes, but if one doesn't portray it believably, one has to live with People not believing you. At least that's how I understood what he said.

All that said, it's not by far as if Amarr are the only ones making all these grandiose claims, though, truth be told, three out of four Minmatar freedom fighters prolly claim that they were abused as slaves before they became capsuleers.

[Desiderya]

DA insertion: Claiming to have been abused as a (amarrian) slave is a much smaller claim than claiming to be a holder. One claim, while clashing with the ideal of amarrian non-abusive (cum grano salis) slavery, is focused entirely on one's own character and that evil antagonist (Holder itself or overseer), whereas the other claim puts one's own character in direct power over quite a lot of other NPCs. Both is entirely legit, though, I just wanted to illuminate my perceived difference between those claims. In the general spirit of the thread I'd say: The smaller more simple your (impossible to proof through in-game means) claims are, the more likely people are to accept this. The other circumstances can be remedied by making these claims believable through your roleplay at heart. I dare say there are some characters I personally have difficulties accepting their portrayal as (Grand Head Honcho), simply from the fact how they are talking and acting in public, whereas others pull their positions off with enough, for example, gravitas to make it much easier to accept.

But yes. Subjectivity metre spikes.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Well, I'm not quite sure whether having been a slave that has been abused is really so much smaller and simpler a claim: In fact I'd say that the chance of a slave - especially of a heartless Holder - to escape, get to the Republic get a sufficient education, get enough Attention to be tested for capsule compatibility and getting Training as a podder is quite small.

Whether you are a Holder or the head of an important Caldari Family that is a major shareholder of (even a smaller) corporation isn't much of a difference, really. Same goes for the superrich of the Federation. All three have a far better Chance to get tested and get into a capsuleer program than the abused slave, though. Unless the breeding programs of Holders are quite successful in bringing about the qualities needed in a pod pilot...

I agree, though, that all those claims are prima facie equally legít.

I think, though, at the core we do agree:

The smaller more simple your (impossible to proof through in-game means) claims are, the more likely people are to accept this. The other circumstances can be remedied by making these claims believable through your roleplay at heart. I dare say there are some characters I personally have difficulties accepting their portrayal as (Grand Head Honcho), simply from the fact how they are talking and acting in public, whereas others pull their positions off with enough, for example, gravitas to make it much easier to accept.

That's quite exactly how I see it.

But yes. Subjectivity metre spikes.
[/quote]

[Desiderya]

On that I agree - the likelihood is small, maybe equally small, yet the impact such a claim has is smaller. Everything has happened in the past, concerned mainly the character itself and offers no power whatsoever, whereas the holder ( or megacorp shareholder, senate member ) does have a certain amount of power at least somewhere.