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[Kyoko Sakoda]

Capitals. Jumping. Through. Star. Gates.

[Vizage]

I like it

[DeadRow]

I've got mixed feelings about this change mostly due to the way my current corp operates.

First, the numbers are whack in this iteration and need to be tweaked. Jumps are too short and timers too long.

Force projection is a huge factor in Eve and at the moment it is too large by a wide margin. But it doesn't need to be maimed this badly. As a ballpark, double the range and half the timer.

Capitals using gates is pointless, so I don't really care if they allow it or not.

I'm also fine with letting people DD in lowsec, you can tank DDs pretty easily in a carrier and I doubt drive bys will become too common.

On a plus side, Placid just got mighty safe for us.

[Merdaneth]

Force projection is a huge factor in Eve and at the moment it is too large by a wide margin. But it doesn't need to be maimed this badly. As a ballpark, double the range and half the timer.

For EVE to be a big divided universe, it should take days for a fleet to cross from one edge of nullsec to the other, perhaps even weeks with interference, not minutes and certainly not hours.

Maybe an interceptor could do it in a day, but a capital ship.... moving these kind of assets should be a monumental undertaking in itself. A caravan in space. And once they get there, they should indeed have a big impact on a fight.

Divide and conquer is a time-honored and interesting strategic option, it should be one in EVE. Achieving local superiority has been the tactical tool of choice for millenia, why can't it be in EVE.

If a game like Total War had an option to teleport your most elite forces anywhere on the map from your capital in one turn, then terrain and distance would not matter, and it would be folly to split your forces. I would much prefer nullsec Empires with encroaching barbarians at their borders. Barbarians with less organization and less equipment, but nonetheless able to achieve minor goals when the Empire's elite army is elsewhere dealing with other trouble.

[Kaldor Mintat]

The e-o thread up to 146 pages now.....running out of buckets...need a tanker or 5.....

[DeadRow]

For EVE to be a big divided universe, it should take days for a fleet to cross from one edge of nullsec to the other, perhaps even weeks with interference, not minutes and certainly not hours.

Maybe an interceptor could do it in a day, but a capital ship.... moving these kind of assets should be a monumental undertaking in itself. A caravan in space. And once they get there, they should indeed have a big impact on a fight.

Divide and conquer is a time-honored and interesting strategic option, it should be one in EVE. Achieving local superiority has been the tactical tool of choice for millenia, why can't it be in EVE.

To travel from edge to edge? Sure. Though 'days to weeks' is cute in theory, but this is a game and if you go to an extreme with these things you are just going to lose players. On TQ right now, it is too short a time to travel. With these changes it'll take way to long.

And I'm not talking about going from one side of the cluster to another here. I live in covryn, I can just barely graze a couple systems in syndicate at the moment with these changes, and when I do I'll be waiting 6 minutes before I can get home.

What is more painful is when we use capitals for support rather than our main fleet. We are a small corporation/alliance so we rely on triage carriers rather than an overload of guardians because it means more pilots can be in battleships and we can take bigger fights. Carriers now lose 2/3 of their range, so roaming will become very limited as it stands. And no, you aren't going to bring your carrier through stargates with you. BS roaming is bad enough without having to wait 5 minutes for a carrier to cross a system with you.

We already have plans should these changes come in as is, but 80% of the ships in my hanger have no become dust collectors. I like the changes in concept, it takes away a lot of the power that PL in particular, but CFC/N3 etc too, have in the way they can and do deploy. It might make it easier for people to claim space and can shake up nullsecs stagnation. But I think that they're cutting it down too much. If they decide to up the range and lower the timer, perhaps you need to keep the fatigue for longer to compensate.

It's all early days yet though, we'll see.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Pivotal word being 'affected as much'.  Due to work my play needs to give me more per minute to be worth it.  This could be great for EVE (as in it become a low population cult game that is manageable more so than it is now), but it is terrible for my requirements. 

I applaud you for having found a niche in EVE in which you can achieve what you want without a lot of idle time. Just try to PvP for a change, if you think waiting a couple of minutes between the next challenge is a major roadblock to gameplay.

And of course, the introduction of Jump Freighters did nothing to add subscribers, people flew in regular freighters long before that. It does make scaling operations upward more difficult, and in turn result in smaller concentrations of players and operations. That is intentional I think. It also is benificient to the game. Smaller groups means each individual is more significant to the rest of the group, and feels more significant. And the game is primarly about empowerement.

Just for the record, and since he seems to have deleted his account here for some reason, PracticalTechnicality has done plenty of PvP in EVE as he used to fly with TS-F and before that with Narwahls, he just now finds EVE PvP to be frightfully boring.

[Lyn Farel]

Eve bases everything on time. While it's good in theory, in practice it only leads to conflicts between fun/players and tactical/strategical requirements.

We can see it clearly here as well as it is already the case for POS reinforcement, travel times (jumping thousands of gates before having fun), etc.

[Silas Vitalia]

Poor game design decisions years ago eventually come back to roost, this band-aid might work a bit.

I think it should take a few days to get from one end of New Eden to the other in a capital ship. 

It should take longer to get from one end of the galaxy to the other than whatever time it takes to attack/ reinforce/capture sov in a system.

This means *gasp* you have to plan ahead, deploy forces strategically.

[Mizhara]

Poor game design decisions years ago eventually come back to roost, this band-aid might work a bit.

I think it should take a few days to get from one end of New Eden to the other in a capital ship. 

It should take longer to get from one end of the galaxy to the other than whatever time it takes to attack/ reinforce/capture sov in a system.

This means *gasp* you have to plan ahead, deploy forces strategically.

Which would be fucking fantastic in every respect. Add some Total War world map play in addition to our current RTS-with-belligerent-and-drunk-units gameplay. If I was running something like CFC or whatever I would be squealing in sheer joy right about now, getting to play some proper strategy in this game.

[Merdaneth]

To travel from edge to edge? Sure. Though 'days to weeks' is cute in theory, but this is a game and if you go to an extreme with these things you are just going to lose players. On TQ right now, it is too short a time to travel. With these changes it'll take way to long.

I don't think so. There shouldn't be any need to travel from one end of the galaxy to another, unless its a strategic need.  Why would you lose players? Because they feel they need to travel the map in within an hour?

And I'm not talking about going from one side of the cluster to another here. I live in covryn, I can just barely graze a couple systems in syndicate at the moment with these changes, and when I do I'll be waiting 6 minutes before I can get home.

That is the beauty. You have become used to capitals moving fast. How many minutes do you think a battleship needs to get home? Probably a lot more than 6 minutes. The whole concept that the biggest ships move the fastest and also bypass normal routes is a poor concept to begin with, gameplay-wise.

What is more painful is when we use capitals for support rather than our main fleet. We are a small corporation/alliance so we rely on triage carriers rather than an overload of guardians because it means more pilots can be in battleships and we can take bigger fights. Carriers now lose 2/3 of their range, so roaming will become very limited as it stands. And no, you aren't going to bring your carrier through stargates with you. BS roaming is bad enough without having to wait 5 minutes for a carrier to cross a system with you.

I personally think its insane that capital ships are support ships rather than core fleet ships. A capital should be the core, and other ships should support it, no the other way around. If you want support quick, one should call for interceptors, not for capitals. If you want to have the logistics power of an overload over Guardians contained within a single pilot, then yes, you should pay the price of needing 5 minutes to cross a system. It is hard for me to imagine that people think it normal the other way around.

We already have plans should these changes come in as is, but 80% of the ships in my hanger have no become dust collectors. I like the changes in concept, it takes away a lot of the power that PL in particular, but CFC/N3 etc too, have in the way they can and do deploy. It might make it easier for people to claim space and can shake up nullsecs stagnation. But I think that they're cutting it down too much. If they decide to up the range and lower the timer, perhaps you need to keep the fatigue for longer to compensate.

I don't think so. The more one limits force projection, the more venues for local superiority.

[Alain Colcer]

FHC discussions have so far been fairly positive, and have proposed possible "emergent" outcomes....which is interesting to say the least.....was expecting tears to the sky, with bittervets farming them....

In particular, the fact that most agree it makes WH space THE most valuable is quite interesting......Freighter and T2 Transports runs through null->WH->low-sec connect large distances are quite valuable to find.

People living in WH suddenly have "transiting" populations ready to be farmed for pvp.......such a thing, i have never expected to be an option, and kinda agree is interesting.

[Mizhara]

This is actually something that impressed me with this. It seems to have a couple of actual goals, but also a much wider "let's just see what comes from this" kind of feel to it. In a sandbox like this, switching up mechanics like this will almost always have some sort of emergent effect, creating new gameplay and content as the sandbox adapts to the new rules. Usually unforeseen ones.

I've been pretty vocal about shaking Eve the fuck up but I was mostly talking about the setting itself rather than gameplay mechanics. This is still a rather welcome thing to see, even though I'd prefer to simply see the factions get fucked up, alliances broken etc.

[Esna Pitoojee]

CCP's response to concerns about players moving in to null is up.

#3666Posted: 2014.10.02 17:15
24
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.

I think it could use to be more often than once a year - 4-6 months, maybe.

Others have suggested other ideas - for instance, the timer scaling with how many jumps away you are installing a clone.

[Lyn Farel]

I think it should not exist. You live in a remote corner of nullsec, you pay the price for it.

Yeah, use wormholes and do some escort

Ah yeah, I got it. Now that we have jump freighters and win buttons like that we don't need to commit to esocrt duties of long convoys full of valuables through dangerous space.

:instantgratification:

:sarcasm: