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[Shal Novastorm]

Yea most of the info was more from stuff I should have been less ass at searching rather than rando outside sources. The official resources are quite good, if a bit cumbersome to sort through at times.

[Jikahr]

There is some argument about whether Amarrian slavery is more 'Roman' like, or 'American' (Antedilluvian), however...

In Ancient Rome, slaves were often released at the end of their owner's lives. A slave that performed well was given a form of payment called a 'peculium', which were sort of like a waiter's tips. This might be enough money to buy one's way out of slavery (or buy a family member). A slave in Rome could also be released on a mere whim, such as a reward for excellent service.

Freed slaves in Ancient Rome were still expected to serve their former owners, although as a commoner rather than a slave. The system for this was called 'Patrons' and 'Clients'. The Patrons owned everything and the clients were expected to do work for their Patrons in exchange for certain privileges, such as feasts and so forth.

I would imagine it would be the same in the Amarrian Empire as well. Only the holders (Nobility) are permitted to own slaves, which would number in the thousands or millions. Most of these slaves would be involved in agricultural work. All the other Amarrians would be commoners, only fractionally better off than the slaves in some cases. A newly released slave would still be loyal to their holder, but now competing for jobs with the Amarrian common folk.

In this instance, it would be similar to Antedilluvian slavery in the United States. 'Pure bred' Amarrian commoners would be quite unhappy about being made to compete for the scant and poorly paid jobs that exist with the newly released, visibly different Minmatar slaves that are eager to work and desperate to survive.

A skilled slave, such as an artist, scientist or musician, might in theory become wealthier than their owner. Legally, everything that the slave produces (as well as the slave themselves) would be the property of their owners, however there might be international contracts made with independent agents in other factions (i.e. Gallente) that allow them to collect residuals and commissions under a Corporate name or pseudonym. This pressure might induce the holder to release the slave, who would also be in possession of enough of a fortune to become a capsuleer.

Since the Amarr consider slavery as an essential component to religious conversion, a loyal and pious Minmatar slave might be released simply through enough proof of devotion.

Roman slave galleys used to give freedom to their slaves before entering into battle, as an incentive for their chained oarsmen not to mutiny. I would imagine that the same is possible for Minmatar slaves within the Royal Amarrian Navy. A crew of Minmatar slaves fighting on a battleship might be granted their freedom as a reward/ incentive for fighting well against a superior force from the Minmatar Republic.

The Empress Jamyl Sarum released millions of Minmatar slaves from bondage, including all academics. This is an interesting character type that hasn't been adequately explored, the slave as a University professor.

Not all slaves were unskilled labour. Many slaves were and are lawyers, doctors, archaeologists, anthropologists, engineers, scientists, etc. These would have been among those who were released, and the most likely to find a profitable income after their release.

So your backstory is somewhat dependent on what you want your EVE career to be. If you want to get into PVP, you might have been released from slavery as part of a long and glorious history of loyal military service. If you want to get into exploring, invention, etc. then you can say you were one of the Academics that were released. Also, you can simply say that you were released as part of Jamyl Sarum's announcement that all slaves from the 7th generation and up are now free.

[Shal Novastorm]

Yea it's a little difficult to get the 'tone' of Amarr slavery because it seems every so often they shift between 'classical' slavery which, obviously while still exploitative and terrible, had more...advancement options...for slaves and the slavery regarding Africans that was just straight up race-based chattel 'you're dark skinned you're a slave or at best your life really, really, really, sucks and people still assume you're a slave anyway'. I get that CCP doesn't exactly want a major player base to be straight up Space Plantation Owners but it makes it a little hard to write about when one article talks about Amarr slavery on the Minmatar using the exact language the dudes in the boats going to Africa did and another talks about how there were slaves who were professors and artists who just happened to be owned.

It feels like they went for a blend of the two, but that kinda makes it difficult when those two are extremely different philosophies and all.

[Karmilla Strife]

Not all slaves were unskilled labour. Many slaves were and are lawyers, doctors, archaeologists, anthropologists, engineers, scientists, etc. These would have been among those who were released, and the most likely to find a profitable income after their release.

I made a freed-slave Geologist. I haven't played her much since I can't afford the extra account, but it was an interesting concept to play.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

CCP didn't nor do aim at a blend of 'USAmerican' slavery or slavery of 'classical antiquity'. Because that would presuppose that there are, in fact, considerations on this on CCP's part. We know pretty well, though, that this is not really the mode in which PF is written. Rather from what we have heard from people involved in fiction writing at CCP, it's mostly in the hands of the authors. And they just draw on whatever they feel like would fit their needs for the story. Therefore it's little wonder that "one article talks about Amarr slavery on the Minmatar using the exact language the dudes in the boats going to Africa did and another talks about how there were slaves who were professors and artists who just happened to be owned".

All this was supposed to change with EVE: Source, but I really don't think it did. For one, it seems that it didn't bring together the different people working on EVE PF and then figure out what way to go, working out the (apparent) contradictions in PF: Rather it, again, has been written by few hands who just drew on what they thought would fit the factions. Alas, they were as unsensitive - in parts - to established PF as some other authors before. Suffice to say, it's no secret I'm not happy with EVE: Source, especially as the one source that is supposed to be 'authoritative' in regard to PF is one we players would have to pay extra for.

Tl;dr: Imho no one really knows what 'Amarr slavery' is supposed to be like. That has it's pros (big cluster: different types thinkable) and it's cons (no one really knows where the bounds of what is acceptable in the Empire are).

[Mizhara]

Which makes it rather funny to play a former slave and then get told both IC and OOC that "NO! Your character didn't experience that because I say slavery wasn't like that!".

[Samira Kernher]

It's actually not that hard to blend when you consider just how big the Empire actually is. Therefore, the treatment can vary from place to place. You'll vary between the really high class, high gen slaves who are academics, clerics, military advisors, etc, and the ones who are just working in the mines and fields, and how many of what and how they are treated exactly will vary from Holder to Holder and region to region. Holders are given largely free reign to determine how best to manage their charges, and different Holder families will handle this in different ways.

For mine, Sami was high gen and high class for a slave, and was given a proper education by her Holder (Environmental Science). She lived in a proper house, with proper clothing and amenities, and had limited trust and agency. So when she argues in favor of slavery, she tends to have a much more positive opinion of it. I felt that was pretty essential for the char as becoming a capsuleer usually requires having had better opportunities in life. Becoming a capsuleer requires education, intelligence, and money, (also freedom) all things that slaves (or any person really) with lesser opportunities would not likely have been able to acquire.

[Louella Dougans]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerialis

I came across this while looking at stuff a while back. Thought it might be useful to think about.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

It's actually not that hard to blend when you consider just how big the Empire actually is. Therefore, the treatment can vary from place to place. You'll vary between the really high class, high gen slaves who are academics, clerics, military advisors, etc, and the ones who are just working in the mines and fields, and how many of what and how they are treated exactly will vary from Holder to Holder and region to region. (...)

Not to nit-pick, but that's not a blend between 'USAmerican slavery' and 'classical ancient slavery' types, but if anything a stratification or balkanisation of slavery. Yes, I know, the Empire is a big place and that's time and again drawn up as a way of harmonizing the clashing accounts of slavery in PF. And don't get me wrong, it's not a bad way to do so, generally speaking.

But it is not really the way PF deals with conflicting accounts of slavery. PF simply ignores those conflicting accounts, basically. And the strategy of 'it's a big place' doesn't solve the problem of what is actually the border of what is acceptable practice in the Empire. "It's big enough" can be used to 'justify' anything and therefore justifies, imho, nothing. To this day we are left in the dark, largely, as to in which boundaries we can find accepted practices of slavery in the Empire, which practices are found, but not at large accepted in the Empire or even frowned upon by the majority, most Holders, the imperial families or the Theology Council, and which are maybe found, but outlawed.

If we have an account 'through the eyes of a Minmatar' in PF, which really displays slavery in the Empire in the stereotypical "blacks (referred to as sub-humans) worked to death on a plantation/in the mines" way, we have no idea how often that is actually seen in the Empire or how accepted that is as a practice. We have no idea how it would be internally justified in regard to slavery as religious institution, should it be deemed acceptable.

I'm also not sure whether it is true that "Holders are given largely free reign to determine how best to manage their charges". The Evelopedia article on Slavery suggests otherwise:

"A Holder is responsible for the religious education and conversion of his slaves. The nominal ultimate goal of slavery in the Empire is to eventually convert every slave to the Amarr religion and have them become free members of society. Thus Holders are encouraged to eventually release their slaves as they prove their loyalty and piety.

While many Holders view their slaves solely as a source of free labor, a Holder who never frees his slaves and mistreats them will be viewed negatively by his fellows and the religious authorities. Contrarily, a Holder who is too liberal with his slaves and frees them too regularly will be viewed as too lenient and radical.

To this end, a Holder is expected to be strict and stern, but not overly harsh with his slaves. They are given much leeway, however, for slaves who are exceptionally pliant and those who are rebellious and resistant. Slaves who cause problems and refuse to obey are typically given the most dangerous and harsh work, such as in mines."

This implies that there are certain societal standards to which a Holder should pay attenion, unless he wants to suffer from according social correction mechanisms or be investigated by the religious authorities. Much leeway is granted if slaves are exceptionally pliant or rebellious and resistant: But arguably not all slaves are either the one or the other, else it would hardly be 'exceptional'.

So, "the Empire is a big place" does not answer the hard questions here, I think. It is too much on the side of "everything goes", while we do, on the other hand, have PF that suggests that there are certain restrictions put on slavery: What I cited above, the mention that the TC deals with any crime considered religious, including egregious mistreatment of slaves, the account of the beginning of the Reclaiming and the decrees of Amash-Akura on how to treat enemies (slaves being basically justified as captured enemies who are re-educated) and the ruling of the Council of Apostles in regard to freeing slaves.

Also, @Louella, this is kind of the background Nico comes from: Her family is 'freed' by now for loyal service, but before they worked their way up through knightly and administrative endeavours.

[Lyn Farel]

So, we have PF accounts of highly educated slaves and other skilled slaves. We also have PF accounts of cattle slaves, mainly of brutor descent, that get worked to death in mines and agricultural labour guarded by slaver hounds. And also, less and less but still there, slaves on navy battleships. Vitoc fits somewhere in there in between.

On top of that, what do we have exactly in terms of laws and framework according to PF ?

[Samira Kernher]

The Theology Council has maintained an essentially laissez-faire policy regarding slave ownership, at least in modern times.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/theology-council-issues-press-release-regarding-slave-mistreatment-case/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/theology-council-declines-to-hear-transcranial-microcontroller-debate-1/

The one exception was Jamyl's decree, which is expected as it was disobedience of a direct command by a sitting emperor.

The Government of the Amarr Empire article does state that "egregeious mistreatment of slaves" is a religious crime, and there is the Amash-Akura stuff etc, but at least in the modern era the TC doesn't seem to be actively enforcing those.

There may be social ostracism for some things, but at least on a legal level the Holders are being given latitude.

[Jikahr]

I think another problem with polarizing Amarrian slavery as either 'Classical' or 'American' is that our own definitions of those are pigeon holed.

My history teacher once defined the difference between hard science and soft science. Hard science says 'Hydrogen and Oxygen make water'. Soft science says "What is Freedom?" We can define ourselves as free, but all we have to do is cause a nuisance in public to be reminded that there are certain limits on our freedom.

Similarly, what is slavery? The answer seems obvious, you are the property of another person. Yet in practice the definition is murkier. What about debt slavery? If you are working simply to pay off the interest of a huge debt, is that slavery? What about wage slavery? If you have to work at a job you hate simply to have food and shelter, to rest and return to work, is that also slavery?

Are North Koreans slaves? They have no freedom of speech, no freedom of movement, and no choice in the sort of work they get assigned to. On the other hand, they get 'free' housing, education, and health care. So arguably, they are well looked after, just as cattle might be.

I picture Amarrian society as a kind of apartheid Police state, not unlike modern day North Korea. A slave might live with her family, go to work every day in her pressed uniform, quite happy to be in service to the state. She buys groceries, comes home, cooks dinner for the family, and might unwind or relax by watching a little state sanctioned television. Law and order is maintained by a loyal slave Police force, the Kameria. Constant propaganda would remind the slaves how much better off they were than the poor, miserable wretches in the Minmatar republic. Religion would be both a release and an indoctrination tool for the masses.

Considering Ancient Rome, there were farm slaves and mining slaves that were every bit as miserably treated as the African-American slaves. The prisons of Ancient Rome were originally simply housing for agricultural slaves. Work all day, get locked up at night.

The Thirteenth Amendment of the United States is the one that made slavery illegal in the United States, except in instances where a crime has been committed.

Note that in the United States today, there are now more African Americans in prison, often doing unpaid labour (chain gangs, etc.), than there were in the days of Antediluvian slavery. How is this not slavery?

There were also the 'house slaves' and the 'field slaves' in the American system. Malcolm X pointed out that when there was an opportunity to escape, the field slaves would run but the house slaves would refuse, and often squeal on the runaways. The field slaves were treated badly, but the house slaves were by comparison well treated, well dressed, possibly even better educated.

The difference would be like a sheep and a herding dog. Both are slaves, owned by and subject to their Master's will. The sheep might run away, but it would have no idea how to survive by itself away from the farm. It is better to put up with the shearing and occasional slaughter. The loyal dog on the other hand, will do anything the Master asks. In fact, the Master could not keep control without the dog's help. This does not prevent the Master from disciplining the dog, or even putting the dog down when it's useful years are over. Pets or meat.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

There are many reasons why the TC didn't want to hear the TCMC debate and why it did rule on the slave mistreatment case as it did (neither of which, obviously, was just a simple ruling on slave mistreatment). To take those cases as representative is kind'a daring, when they are seen on the background of those vastly more cases that haven't been dealt with capsuleer-public channels. And those, given evelopedia, don't always end up with some 'let them do as they will' ruling by the TC.

There's good reason to assume that those two cases had special media coverage because they were exceptional (besides both being obviously tailored by the authors to draw attention on either an event by CCP or plotline CCP was rolling out, not to represent the Empire's normal dealings with slaves).

[Shal Novastorm]

Yea I was wrong to present it as an either or thing between those two, my bad.

Thanks for the interesting read though, big help in planning things out! 

[Lyn Farel]

@ Jikhar : minor nitpicking : unless PF has changed dramatically, you might want to reconsider the insertion of Kameiras into your example since those of Matari descent are usually used as a kind of affordable foreign legion composed of elite and fanatical soldiers devoted to their empress. Those are frontline units, not on guard duties.