Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Silas Vitalia on 20 Oct 2018, 17:57
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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-10-20-heres-gameplay-of-project-nova-the-eve-online-first-person-shooter
Hey that's a spiffy trailer! That sounds like it could be a pretty cool game....I'd love to go fight some Sansha in a neato narrative or co-op game with today's tech and engine and Eve's great storyline potential!
Hey look it's 20 minutes of.... capturing control points on a generic map with little numbers bouncing off the enemies.
Good god, that looks bad even for a previous-gen game. What in the ever-living......like...even the most boring modern gameplay shooters still look amazing and tons of eye candy and 'oooh wow' moments, what the shit is this.
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It is a pre-Alpha. It's barely a game right now, they're just showing off that they have a mostly functioning engine.
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It is a pre-Alpha. It's barely a game right now, they're just showing off that they have a mostly functioning engine.
cmonnnnnnnn don't kid yourself :P
It's ok to admit it looks bad :)
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I didn't say it looked good. It's clearly unfinished.
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... wow that was awful. Did... did they forget it's supposed to be on PC now? They are allowed to have things move as if it's not submerged in treacle. Someone let them know you can have actual fps movement and combat in fps games these days.
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Actually I'm wondering if that's from an even earlier version than what's being currently demo'd at Vegas. The Vegas demo had much faster pacing, dynamic movement (sliding across the floor etc) and looks much more exciting. I'll try and find a vod.
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/324798459
Starts at 01:07:30 (actual working gameplay from 01:14:50)
Looks like a totally different game to that official footage. There's so much more actual movement to the movement :D
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Yeah that's way better.
... granted, it still looks like a cheap Destiny knock-off with less awesome in it, and I managed to stick with Destiny 2 for a whole week before getting really bored by it, but hey. I'm slightly less leery of this now than I was five minutes ago.
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They've been talking about possible Dark Souls style drop-in PvP where you can take the role of a Sansha Boss.
Again, it's literally pre-alpha. You can't compare it to a finished game, because it isn't.
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Is there literally anything that you aren't salty about?
Slow pacing in an FPS, oh the horror.
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They've been talking about possible Dark Souls style drop-in PvP where you can take the role of a Sansha Boss.
Again, it's literally pre-alpha. You can't compare it to a finished game, because it isn't.
Listen, if they release this particular preview of the game in its current state, then that is what'll be viewed, considered and judged. Of course they may change things later on and if they do then the judgments and considerations will change accordingly but I think it's a bit ridiculous to expect people to withhold judgment on what is being offered by the devs at this time. This is what we've got to consider and look at, and thus that is what'll be commented on and judged. It's not rocket surgery.
Is there literally anything that you aren't salty about?
Slow pacing in an FPS, oh the horror.
Is there any criticism you won't whine about? Someone didn't like shitty console FPS gameplay, the horror.
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Judgement is fine, "This is worse than destiny" is dumb.
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I clicked this thread, read it, and was immediately reminded of the Star Citizen thread, only with the roles reversed in terms of who's posting what.
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Judgement is fine, "This is worse than destiny" is dumb.
This looks worse than Destiny 2, based on what we've been offered so far.
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This will be the best-looking FPS of 2010.
But anyway no need for everyone to get their backs up, let's just be realistic about if it looks crappy and if they've learned anything from Dust. I'm leaning towards no. It's not going to stray from the class-based drop-in capture the point gameplay, even with a few graphics and gameplay passes.
I just feel like CCP trying to compete in areas they can't compete in- it's a crowded field with big money backers and they are not going to stand out.
Why not just license an engine and do some smaller budget off-genre things that are maybe cheap to produce and might give good return for investment? Story based squad shooter like Republic Commando? Turn-based tactical? Narrative adventure game? Who knows?
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Actually I would love to have a game where you just manage one ship from not the capsuleer's point of view, or maybe not even a capsuleer ship. Not sure what the format would be. Adventure game, crew management, turn-based, RPG? I dunno.
But that might be super fun. Or heck even if you still had the capsuleer portion an entire game focusing on just one ship at a time into the nitty-gritty, hiring crews, solving mysteries and having adventures on the lower end of the 'space important' spectrum. A small merc frigate or cruiser or something. Hmm.
You could still do a whole narrative FPS game where I dunno, maybe you work off of the same ship for most of the game, doing boarding parties and defending the ship and all sorts of zany things. Small squad type of FPS, maybe work your way up to a larger crew. Lots of possibilities.
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https://www.pcgamer.com/project-nova-preview/
"Compared to Dust 514, EVE Online's new FPS is boring and unambitious"
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This being PC Gamer, my guess is CCP isn't paying enough for advertising.
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Eh, PCGamer isn't off the mark that often, I find. Besides, given what we've seen and how it's been described elsewhere, I can't really see how they even can be wrong at this point. There doesn't seem to be anything at all actually interesting or new here. It really does look like something that'd be on offer back in 2010, except less interesting.
Either it's CCP's marketing, or it's that they are just yet again demonstrating that they're really very... basic when it comes to game design.
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"Game media" is indeed generally full of wankers without a shred of impartiality, but sometimes they get it right :P
Oooh maybe a "Telltale" style adventure game working as a baseliner on a capsuleer ship or something. Do ittttt
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I mean fundamentally it doesn't matter what the reviews of a pre-alpha build are. The kind of people who are going to buy Nova on release are going to buy it whether a random games journalist likes it or not. CCP aren't banking on pulling a massive share of the FPS market through reviews, they'd be insane to think that will happen.
They're making the game for the community of Eve and Dust players who've been passionate about their FPS projects since Dust's first announcement. The Dust_Vets discord has hundreds of members and a faintly alarming amount of activity two and a half years after their game closed. People still RP their Dusters on that server today!
The game is being made for the people who want it, and the people who actively don't aren't going to play it anyway. People who either aren't sure or don't know about it will be brought in or warned off through word of mouth, much like Eve strangely enough, and make up their own minds.
Personally I think CCP offering a pre-alpha to games journalists was a bit of a daft move; of course it's going to be "disappointing". I would have given it to Vegas attendees to try now and not officially invited reviewers until there was a finished product to review.
TL;DR, Haters gonna hate. But if you're going to hate something, at least wait till you've see what it actually is, rather than hating its shadow on the wall.
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I've never bought into the "it's alpha" argument for anything. Plenty of games can get cleaned up along the way but it's rare for things to take drastically different directions between then and release. Alpha is a buzzword for marketing purposes. They've already laid out gameplay, core concepts and mechanics, the engine, how things are going to look, feel, and play. Those are the first things they do, and then iterate and refine until release. It will probably look nicer, play smoother, less lag, more refinement for gunplay, etc as they continue working. Differences of degree, not of kind.
This isn't going to suddenly turn into not an FPS focused on capturing control points from waves of NPCs with progressive grinding for better weapons and stats and probably a cash injection method for getting them quicker.
Games like this rarely, rarely do a 180 in core mechanics and direction this far down the pipe and suddenly turn in completely different directions. Big studios can afford to do that, and even that is not common.
Haters gonna hate is silly. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who like this game. Plenty of people also play candy crush.
I just don't think this particular game will have any legs or bring anything new to the table. CCP has this fantastic IP they they are using to do the most generic, run of the mill grinder shooter, and that's a shame is all.
Eve Online was successful specifically because it was going all sorts of things that other MMOs weren't doing in 2003, appealing to people who wanted something different and not safe. It didn't look or play like other cookie-cutter themepark MMO's that everyone was doing at the time. it was -refreshing- and different. Nova isn't doing that, at least as currently shown. You don't need a gigantic budget or a huge development team, you need good ideas. If you replaced the skins on Nova with any other IP you wouldn't know you were doing anything different.
An EVE Online FPS could feel or play more like a Rust on a conceptual level, something that feels dangerous, rewards cooperation, encourages nasty human behavior and ingenuity.
Maybe it's set in W-Space on some planet after a few different ships crash and you all have to fight or cooperate to get back to K Space. You could even do it round based where the server resets after a few weeks, that would be neat.
I really like the idea of blasting through a bunch of Sansha drones on the hull of a Tempest with my squadmates as a battle rages in the background. Neato! I don't want to stand around a control point and twiddle my thumbs and then run to the last control point and twiddle my thumbs. Why not just make some narrative missions doing the same thing with some randomized level layouts internal to the ship? Boarding actions on Sansha ships! Neato!
Shooters that are fun these days have ways of adding new mechanics or tactical gameplay that isn't just run and gun capture the point. Mass Effect 3 had some fantastic ways of doing this, and even included lots of similar multiplayer gameplay, holding the line sort of thing. Other modern shooters like Titanfall had well-polished shooting with gimmicks like giant mech suits that were super fun. Even the newest 'run and gun' shooters like DOOM remake when 'sticking to basics' amp it up with insane speed and visceral action. If it's not straight shooting then they add some neat twists or objective gameplay like Payday. Maybe this will have a bunch of neat game modes they haven't talked about yet, I dunno?
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They've already talked about 16v16 PvP matches as a second mode, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's at least one more they haven't mentioned yet.
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https://www.polygon.com/2018/12/2/18122721/project-nova-ccp-eve-online-fps-delay-canceled
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Haaaaah! CCP quality project management strikes again.
I mean, I would not be surprised at this point if there's something to that whole rumor that CCP folk are telling their friends to RMT out and gtfo before everything crashes and burns.
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"Mothballed" is not actually accurate.
Development is still very much underway.
[10:50 AM] CCP Rattati: i think its important to put this into perspective
[10:51 AM] CCP Rattati: we went to Vegas, and we got a lot of feedback. The feedback was overall positive, but the feeling was that this is not enough, even with more features planned in the alpha
[10:51 AM] CCP Rattati: the alpha would not, currently, add much to that feedback, its kind of,. "hey we already know, lets take some time to improve"
[10:52 AM] CCP Rattati: its difficult to to accept it, and I completely share the disappointment
[10:53 AM] CCP Rattati: there are low hanging fruit, and there are high hanging fruit
[10:55 AM] CCP Rattati: we are f.ex. reconsidering the on top of ships part for example, but moving within the space scene
[10:56 AM] CCP Rattati: as cool as the idea was, it doesn't really deliver on it
[10:56 AM] CCP Rattati: back to the drawing board means, lets discuss these new and serious questions
[10:57 AM] CCP Rattati: not cancelled, or radical pivoting
[10:58 AM] CCP Rattati: the AI was universally an issue
[10:58 AM] CCP Rattati: but most of it is the visual translations of what the AI is doing, the AI is smart enough
[10:59 AM] CCP Rattati: audio and visuals don't come across as eve enough, but thats low hanging fruit
[11:00 AM] CCP Rattati: i would say "1) we are asking dust players to be patient, 2) we asking eve players to be patient and 3) we are asking shooter players to be patient
[11:00 AM] CCP Rattati: I think we need to not ask one of these to be patient
[11:00 AM] CCP Rattati: then we have the game we want
[11:01 AM] CCP Rattati: there needs to be one sweet spot at launch
[11:01 AM] CCP Rattati: well, we just said we are planning an alpha and you are invited. then we decided to pull it for our own business reasons. Don't really think thats stringing you along
[11:03 AM] CCP Rattati: we have already improved a lot of the textures, to reduce the blandness of some areas. We are also loooking into making the main areas more distinct from each other through lighting and/or hero objects
[11:06 AM] CCP Rattati: here is a detail texture pass for example, https://imgur.com/a/xLb3Eqa (https://imgur.com/a/xLb3Eqa) [RE-HOSTED]
[11:06 AM] CCP Rattati: there is almost no concern about the first person shooter mechanics, smooth and fluid
[11:07 AM] CCP Rattati: some more minmatar like floor textures. stuff like this is "easy" but necessary https://imgur.com/a/n80D5Ot (https://imgur.com/a/n80D5Ot) [RE-HOSTED]
[11:09 AM] [DU5T] angel: Yea I'm kinda happy about the email bo disrespect but wasn't too impressed with the whole class perk thing and no heavy logi combo
[11:10 AM] CCP Rattati: on the logi rep tool, I have no objection to adding it, its just that my understanding/perception was that it "locked" logis to do that, and then you had scanerinas who were locked, and eventually you have 3 slayers and some guys that don't want to do what they are told to do
[11:11 AM] CCP Rattati: yeah, I am a slayer so I assumed too much
[11:11 AM] CCP Rattati: sorry about that
[11:12 AM] CCP Rattati: but people definitely complained about being shoehorned into roles
[11:14 AM] CCP Rattati: on the question of ships or not, a quick prototype created Nova, the keepstar edition https://imgur.com/a/sEGFhVV (https://imgur.com/a/sEGFhVV) [RE-HOSTED]
[11:18 AM] CCP Rattati: or nova the asteroid edition https://imgur.com/a/cxrxwip [RE-HOSTED]
[11:21 AM] CCP Rattati: anyway, its not a great day for us either, obviously we hoped to have a stronger alpha candidate, but have a great weekend. We will keep you all posted and involved
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Unfortunately they are going to be in a race against the clock here to find a better direction / pivot that works while they are burning through development cash.
I'm not sure I'd consider "audio and visuals don't come across as eve enough, but thats low hanging fruit" low hanging fruit :P
Will be interesting to see where this ends up but as some of the criticisms I've seen elsewhere are saying, there's little here to distinguish this from any of the many other class-based, team fight, point capture shooters out there, or give one a reason to purchase this aside from the branding.
Granted this could still be 100% dogshit and it still wouldn't be as bad as 90% of the warhammer 40k games they keep pooping out the last decade :P I think maybe 1 in 20 of those are actually fun.
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Awesomely, the 40k license is far more respected these days. Seemingly, anyway. A whole bunch of quite competent and in some cases excellent games have been coming out. Gladius - Relics of War, Spacehulk Deathwing fps, Inquisitor etc. And I'll to this day defend 40k:Armageddon as one of the finest little low-budget strategy games ever made. The sheer attention to unit detail and variety is delightful, and the game is deceptive in its simplicity.
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Ahh I had heard mostly mixed things about those. Although can see Armageddon being just right ;)
But for every great 40k game you also get space marine chess and DOW3 and Battleflop Gothic and whatever horrible card fight game they had a while back, yikes.
One day, in the far future, GW will get it together and just give us virtual tabletop engine with snazzy animation and graphics and let us pay for units and armies on our own. They would be printing money. :P
But back to Nova being bad :P
Edit: my 2 fav 40k games were the action game Space Marine which was mostly fantastic and DOW2 which was one of the best and deepest RTS ever, perfect blend of all the things, all about tactics and small unit manipulation and nothing else. There's a reason DOW3 was a bomb and people are still playing 2 :P
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Nova totes bad. Now that is out of the way
omfg yes Space Marine was damn near perfect. Even if you were an Ultrasmurf and that shitpail underling kept going "BUT SPESS BOOK SEZ IZ BAD!", it may be the most satisfying depiction of Adeptus Astartes tearing through Greenskins and Chaos with fury and wrath. Bolters felt proper thoomy and since you ARE the cover, regaining health by stomping into the middle of the enemy pack and tearing them to pieces was never not awesome.
DoW3 suffered badly under a serious curse: Publishers wanted a fuckin' E-Sport Game. God damn Starcraft 2 has fucked the RTS genre, because EVERY RTS has to be a fucking e-sport event now and designed around that shit, because then you can also sell fucking loot boxes and skins and fuck knows what else. The singleplayer was a really shitty afterthought added to a mediocre lane-based damn near moba-ish lanepusher. With a space marine in Terminator armor doing fucking backflips and shit.
God I miss DoW2 and the expansion. Hell, DoW1 and its expansions. Been a while since we've seen the Bolter Bitches in play.
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Nova totes bad. Now that is out of the way
omfg yes Space Marine was damn near perfect. Even if you were an Ultrasmurf and that shitpail underling kept going "BUT SPESS BOOK SEZ IZ BAD!", it may be the most satisfying depiction of Adeptus Astartes tearing through Greenskins and Chaos with fury and wrath. Bolters felt proper thoomy and since you ARE the cover, regaining health by stomping into the middle of the enemy pack and tearing them to pieces was never not awesome.
Yea it's one of the few Space Marine games that felt 'proper' in the way of running into 50 orks and slaughtering them in a balet of death and slo-mo pulp explosions
With a space marine in Terminator armor doing fucking backflips and shit.
Yea I remember watching the early vids of this sort of nonsense like, jesus why did they make it even -more- cartoony. Good god. I was a daily Dow2 player for years with a pretty hardcore competitive online group and after the first reports came in from a few of them I avoided like a plague.