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Author Topic: Development/Notes about 3MA/gladiatorial style combat  (Read 748 times)

Logan Fyreite

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Basis
Even in modern times, things like the UFC, boxing, martial arts tournaments draw huge crowds and will continue to do so as a by proxy of people enjoying watching the "sport" of combat. In some cases more brutal matchups are better, with blood-sports being favored in underworld fighting pits all the way through the spectrum to the heavily styleized, but no less impressive sumo-wrestling, to the pageantry and soap opera that are things like -TNA- wrestling or WWE.

Thought process
What would this type of combat look like for each of the nations, and how did it get there?
What STYLE of combat would each race represent, of course there would be cross over, but what would each fight look like?
With the advent of MMA, no longer can you just be "a boxer" and be successful, or even "a wrestler, grappler, or any other single style fighting discipline" That's why it's called MMA... If that was taken to the extreme, ie refined to it's most brutal level, pushed against the wall of death, where only the most effect style remains, what would that style look like?
If the above is true then there are certain real-world caviats, IE a lot of effective combat techniques fail the second opponent A's 10 friends join the fight, in fact, chances are that 10 v 1 no matter your level of skill, you're going down, but what would a fighting style that could combat more than one opponent look like, favor? (Think Krav Maga, MCMAP, or other combat oriented fighting styles).

Racial breakdown, pre-first contact with other four playable races

Gallente
((Feel free to correct, this is just how I see things. it's a big cluster yadda yadda))
Societies tend to have methods for self defense and self offense, the Gallente people and their sub-cultures are no exception. Generations of fighters have intermingled the fighting styles to a great extent, but there are always 'purists' claiming to have found or re-defined the next-best fighting style. Although Gallente culture as a whole frowns on the over the top violence often found in their minmatar brothers "blood fights" (as labelled by federation fight purists), their fights just as vicious underground.

The dominant fighting styles in the underground, Serpentis, Gurista and Angel sponsored fights, through shell companies of course, rely mainly on graceful strikes, dominant positional fighting and grappling. Fights are usually short, and brutal, with fighters careers extending well into the decade mark similar to what current-day MMA fighters might experience.

Caldari
((Feel free to correct, this is just how I see things. it's a big cluster yadda yadda))
Caldari martial arts are much more stylized and focus on efficiency of movement and counter movement. Similar modern day examples would be judo, Akido, mixed with equal parts Win-Chun striking and Muay Thai to put it into the vernacular of the current times. Because of the 'harsh' corporate structure, many feel compelled to study the martial arts as a means of not only self defense, but also mental discipline and self-restraint. Because of this ingrained desire to learn martial arts, mostly derived from the martial leaders of the Raata empire, the people's leaders and later corporate executives tend to have exclusive clubs, complete with private one on one instruction from only the finest and most discreet of instructors, where having a "black belt" or mastery of a particular style is looked on as as sign of diligence and dedication by their peers. After all these high profile figures couldn't be seen being tossed around by their peers, let alone allow a rival to take a strike at them, even in practice for fear of showing weakness or losing face.

From that 'high tier,' martial arts blends down to the tail ends of the society, Middle management, who can't afford private lessons compete in a mix of ways, from training with peers in a regimented but still competitive format. Similar to what we might call a dojo or gym currently. Workers learn and participate in a much more martial system, with driven individuals competing to learn from the best so they in turn can reach the heights afforded to trainers of the CEO's and elite of the society. Despite the regimented nature of the society, Caldari underground fights are brutal, bloody affairs, where a multitude of styles clash and gain favor from fight to fight, planet to planet.

Minmatar
((I bet everyone thinks I am going to make these guys the "bad asses" :) ))
Minmatar martial tradition began at a much more "base" level than either of the two previous cultures. Hunting breeds competition, and the tribal lifestyle bred competition and more importantly fighting. Minmatar martial arts tend to be less civilized and more brutal in their effectiveness and style than any other race. This nature is because of the constant warring and later inter-tribal disputes. Despite the years of relative calm during the Minmatar republic's expansion, their martial arts remained mostly militant. Competitions remained tough brutal affairs that tested the mettle of the participants vice a more structural, procedural events. Over time Minmatar martial arts did acquire some of the structure and ritualization, only to be stripped away by the arrival of the Amarr.

Minmatar martial arts tend to draw from modern-day striking styles like Krav Maga, or Systema (the version used by Spetsnaz as well as Russian martial artists). Grappling was a secondary thought, but focused mainly around controlling the six levers taught in Systema, ie, neck, knees, elbows, shoulders, waist, and ankles. Also adopted were the use of more weapons than many other cultures martial arts, including sword arts similar to 16th century soldiers and knife arts similar to Brazilian and southern American cultures at the turn of the century. Many of these styles of fighting conclude that "going to the ground" is already losing the fight and teach effective, if brutal, counters and effective sprawling to prevent takedowns.

Minmatar society varies between the different clans, some Brutor tribes take martial prowess much more seriously than say Vherokior or Siebestor clans. However in large it is not as integrated into their culture as one would expect, with many natural fighters favoring unique or individual styles passed down the clans bloodlines and easily lost in battle.

Amarr
((From what I can see there is little in the Amarr faith that points towards a martial arts type background, not saying they would not be martial, but I look at it more like Christianity, while still war-like, Christians are not "set" in their fighting styles.))
Amarr society does not overtly embrace a martial arts heritage, however, the Khanid people do, and have a strong martial tradition. Indeed Cyber Knights often focus on martial arts to improve their combat effectiveness, as well as control their thoughts and actions and refine the techniques of working with heavily augmented and implanted bodies.

On and off, slave owners put on various "demonstrations" often underground, sometimes when in fashion, in public. These fights pitted groups of slaves against each other, or against single or groups of beasts found across the empire. Sometimes, large groups slaves would be pit against a single or pair of Khanid 'Knights' (obviously less than formal and honorable knights if they are participating in things like this, but people are people). In some circles a Knight's worth was determined by how many slaves they could engage and kill successfully.

Amarrad ((Amarrish?)) martial arts cover a surprising range, from controlling motions, similar to combat Tai Chi, types of Kung-Fu (panda style!! 8) ), to effective grappling similar to modern day Brazilian Jui Jitsu as well as formal sword arts, both of the fencing, sword and shield, as well as Kendo(Japanese dual handed sword, Wakizashi, tanto, Katana practice), or Taijiquan(Chinese single handed sword martial art) techniques.

Racial breakdown during the initial years, pre-Cloning/Capsuleers/DUSTies

Gallente/Caldari Martial arts interaction
Martial arts societies while mostly disciplined tend to have their "champions." When the Caldari made contact with the Gallente and commerce started flowing, foods and goods were not the only thing being supplied to the other culture. In what is still regarded as a series of seminal events in the martial arts community of the cluster the Liminare 7 day fights occurred every four years between masters of different styles from both sides of the "line." Gallente underground martial arts gained a lot of reputation during this era as their fighters were a cut above the majority of the more casual Gallente martial arts "clubs" who's prohibitive rules and restrictions tended to be the first thing that fell by the wayside in open competition with the highly disciplined and efficient Caldari fighters.

The first 5 major 7 day fights took place in 22836-56 after the costs of space travel were reduced to a level that made space travel more common, and after the invention of the warp drive, resulted in 4 Caldari championships, with one person winning twice, 22836, 22844, split by the first victory, and some say essential victory of the Ida, utilizing advanced grappling and submissions won in 22840 AD.

The events continued gaining in popularity on both sides because of the growing competition between the expanding gallente empire and the somewhat repressed Caldari culture of the time. Repressed as in not expanding like the "Federation."

In any case, come the creation of the Federation in 23121 the events continued on until 23152, the Caldari-Gallente war providing an abrupt end to the event.

Over the 171 events, the overall record was broken down by the styles that won, and not the nationalities, though the unofficial total was Gallente 72, Caldari 99. The majority of the Gallente victories came closer to the end of the series while the Caldari enjoyed earlier superiority.

During the war years, Caldari ground forces enjoyed a fairly wide spread advantage in martial arts training and hand to hand grappling, with several Gallente holo-vids claiming the Caldari heavily genetically modified and augmented their troops to produce the desired super-soldiers, often times being beaten by a determined single, natural Intaki, Gallente or similar Gallente ethnicity. Irony is the methods used to beat these Caldari super soldiers in such holovids were actually the reason why the Caldari were so successful, those being dedicated training and focused effort...

Post-war The underground of both cultures scene is televised and by Gallente holovids and reality series, including the ever popular Titan fighter series. Many reporters are paid and pay big money to sneak across the boarders to record these underground fights.

Amarr/Minmatar Martial arts interaction

Both found interaction at a much more functional level than the initial relatively 'tame' relationship between the Caldari and Gallente. Minmatar soldier's brutality and ferocity was equalled only by the disciplined calm of the Cyber-Knights, and slaver teams, combined with augments and slaver dogs to equal the Minmatar male's hope to save friends and family. Obviously the Amarr were hugely successful enslaving the majority of the minmatar people.

This equated to many, many cases where the more troublesome of the Minmatar were herded into pens and kept like animals, released to fight each other, groups of animals or become the slaves who fought against the Cyber Knights in gladiatorial events. As the events of 23213 (The Minmatar Rebellion) approached, Minmatar slaves owners mistakenly allowed some of the more accomplished Minmatar combatants to live and Minmatar martial arts, toned to the most brutal, efficient tool it could be, began to spread through first the underground gladiatorial events and then through the slave populace, in addition to select Amarr and Khanid houses who thought they were the only ones who knew. This martial art, practiced behind closed doors, was credited as a factor in initial success of the relatively unarmed slaves against Amarr guards.

Amarr martial arts were not-unchanged because of this interaction. Their methods developed, evolved more deadly and efficient too, but tended towards an interesting mix of disabling moves in addition to deadly ones to be used in different circumstances. Cyber Knights refined down their abilities and augments to further improve their craft. By the uprisings, the martial arts of both societies were irrevocably intertwined. In an Irony that has to be seen to be believed, many of the Amarr martial schools teach the same moves, with slightly different names as their Minmatar counterparts. Of course in both societies, training outside the race is considered dubious and dishonorable.

Amarr/Gallente Martial arts interaction
Limited during the Minmatar rebellion and even before then, despite the trade agreements signed between the two races in 23210. The slave trade was considered an no-go measure for many Republic martial artists so no formal, and few underground fights took place.

These events took place with little or no rules, and played into the hands of either the slaves competing or the Amarr practitioners who's fighting style was designed more for combat than it was for a competition.

Post-wars but before the introduction of the capsule, cloning and the rest was a modern renaissance for Martial arts, with various systems crossing the gap between races, with the openness of the Gallente empire being the major beneficiary of such open-ness.

Gallente/Minmatar Martial arts interactions
After the Gallente support in the Minmatar rebellion, Gallente soldiers were surprised by the effectiveness of the fighting systems they encountered. Many of them learnt what they could from the Minmatar fighters and returned home, a few such individuals making a quick killing by applying these new techniques in the MMA circles of the Gallenete underground, unknowningly sparking the beginning of the Minmatar Mixed Martial arts leagues, or 3MA, also know as Minmatar Blood Sports. Starting small these type of fights focused on the exact opposite style of fighting from the organized, stylistic fights that were more prevalent prior. Gallente culture turns a bit of a blond eye to these fights, though some planets in the federation have outlawed the sport entirely. If it can still be called a sport.

Each fights starts with weight classed fighters standing in their section of the "ring" the ring is a circle surrounded by chain-link fencing, in some cases treated with rubberized coating to prevent fighter injury, and in other cases treated with tear barbs to increase the amount of blood-shed. Fighters careers could be as short as a single fight (winning or losing) for the more brutal matches or longer than a decade for the more main-stream fights, but those are largely being overridden by the more brutal contests.

Amarr/Caldari Interaction
((Oh god I've written so much and am running out of steam!))
In this case it was a difference between two extreme styles, but the same level of dedication. The resultant interactions between martial arts groups which would seem to mesh the best were actually the most resistant to change. Surprisingly, or I supposed, unsurprisingly so, the Caldari systems had already integrated much of the brutality of the Amarr systems with a strong reminant of the traditional aspect of martial arts.

The Amarr systems had largely focused around the Khanid empire, their use of swords, augments and implied advantage(over a baseliner at least). Some systems share moves more by coincidence and condensation of the best combat systems possible than by any design.

'Current' Times
Even as "Civilization" advanced, these new technologies were just used to greater effect in the blood sports. With a-moral pod-pilots spanning the cluster, matches have become increasingly more brutal, and deadly.

Cranial Augmentations - agility, intelligence and other cranial implants have changed the way arts can be stored, remembered and accessed. Visual implants suggest moves, identify opponent weaknesses, heart rate, breathing patters, tendencies... Most professional teams have programmers who's sole job is to create statistics and algorithms to allow these enhanced men to fight.

Bone/muscle replacements - In addition to cranial implants, especially after Dusties near complete skeletal and muscle replacements, or technology as used for the Cyber Knights, these augmentation have made fighting in any capacity very dangerous. Some circles use only enhanced fighters, while others, only "natural" fighters or "lightly enhanced" a bit like weight classes.

Nanites/combat drugs/boosters - Even in fighting, the rush given by various combat psycotropics can be a powerful ally or a hurtful enemy. Nanites especially have proven an invaluable ally in quickly mending mid-combat cuts, bruises, and gashes, all the way to super-oxygenating the blood, carrying away muscle waste and generally improving the human condition mid-fight. These are screen for or not screened for depending on the audience.

Most televised blood sport participants have at least moderate levels of augmentation, be it either bone/muscle replacements (making the fighter much heavier, durable, resilient, cranial implants or Nanites are a close second.

Cloning - Once that perfect fighter is created, it hurts to lose them to injury, disease or death. Cheaper fighting "mills" don't offer clone services, but many intermediate and all professionally sponsored gyms offer both nanite healing tubes as well as full cone bio-vats and both burn and slow scan mental imaging machines.

Muscle Memory - THis is perhaps the one thing that can't be cloned. That is the muscles ability to "remember" certain movements after 3000 or so repetitions. It is an interesting hole in the clone mapping process where the new body doesn't have the same muscle memory needed in a fighters day to day life. IE remember exactly how to do simple competitive movements like a jab or a specific leg lock or motion. Clone muscles also tend to be less flexible at the initial start of their "lives" as the previous body. Because of this re-cloned fighters are required to take time off to recondition their bodies.

((Going to call it a day for now. Getting something to eat, and time to think.))
« Last Edit: 29 Apr 2013, 13:56 by Logan Fyreite »
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Adreena Madeveda

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Re: Development/Notes about 3MA/gladiatorial style combat
« Reply #1 on: 29 Apr 2013, 13:37 »

Concerning the Minmatar :

By the time of the day of darkness, the minmatar had expanded to three solar systems and were a peaceful people. Yep : a space-faring, organized nation. Not quite the constantly warring, brutal and lacking the refinements of civilization you're depicting.

I'd say it points toward martial arts highly ritualized and ceremonial for this period of time : ways to express violence and channel it without getting overwhelmed by it.
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Logan Fyreite

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Re: Development/Notes about 3MA/gladiatorial style combat
« Reply #2 on: 29 Apr 2013, 13:59 »

Concerning the Minmatar :

By the time of the day of darkness, the minmatar had expanded to three solar systems and were a peaceful people. Yep : a space-faring, organized nation. Not quite the constantly warring, brutal and lacking the refinements of civilization you're depicting.

I'd say it points toward martial arts highly ritualized and ceremonial for this period of time : ways to express violence and channel it without getting overwhelmed by it.
I agree a little bit but not entirely, I have edited my post to reflect a bit better what I was shooting for.

For the Minmatar I drew a bit on their "background" nations to establish what kind of fighters they would be, Brutor, Siebestor come from martial systems that despite long term peace tend towards the functional rather than the ritualistic (when it comes to martial arts, however socially tend to be more ritualistic than functional socially).

I also didn't want too many to start from the "ritualistic" corner because there are much fewer effective martial arts that hail from that sector to draw from that would also fit with the Eve dystopic future imho.

((damn your avatar's ability for distraction))
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Adreena Madeveda

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Re: Development/Notes about 3MA/gladiatorial style combat
« Reply #3 on: 29 Apr 2013, 15:24 »

Well, the point we're talking about is quite remote in history : more than 800 years ago. It leaves plenty of room for a ritual martial art to evolve into something more efficient and :grimdarkcompliant:... And I'm totally ok with your idea that minmatars end with Krav Maga. I just think the way they got there could be described slighlty differently than what you propose here :)

((damn your avatar's ability for distraction))

You're welcome :D
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Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more; it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Shakespeare, Macbecth

Silas Vitalia

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Re: Development/Notes about 3MA/gladiatorial style combat
« Reply #4 on: 29 Apr 2013, 20:36 »

Interesting post!

Two things:

I think there is a lot of fun things to explore with how 'enhanced' combatants would deal with each other, being able to run, jump, and create tremendous forces with their augmentations.  Brutal, exciting, and entertaining!

The flip side is that I think most of the 'racial' heritage would be out the window in all but a 'training' or 'ceremonial' sense.  Here we are only 5 or 6 hundred years after people were mostly fighting with swords... and now modern military and MMA types aren't being taught these weapons.  You get basic or advanced hang-to-hand in the military, but no one is really training people to use Katanas or giant Broadswords anymore.   

I mean that I think the racial martial traditions might still be taught in a 'passing of knowledge' or maintaining cultural heritage sort of way, but MMA gladiator type fighters might start being more homogenized. 

This of course makes for less exciting grudge matches though, I'd much rather see Khanid Cyberknight X who was trained for 100 years in the 'old school' monastary and can punch through a wall with his cybernetic arm fighting Matari Brutor Y with the cyber leg who can kick a tree in half. 

:)

Also looking and can't find the damn picture of the 'arena' that is in many missions.

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