Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => The Speakeasy: OOG/Off-topic Discussion => Topic started by: Ken on 26 Sep 2012, 12:48
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This Game (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/Features)
Picked up this recent 4X entry after hearing some good things. I've given it a couple hours so far and I am impressed. It doesn't fall flat on its face shortly after leaving the gate, like many 4X titles unfortunately do.
Among other things, I am very pleased with the races and ship designs offered. All of the factions have interesting stories and are described quite well. As described and presented, each of them manages to instill a sense of wonder in me such that the Endless Space universe almost seems poised for something greater. The human factions are not built on absurd hyperbole nor oppressive vagueness. They manage to be interesting and each of them seems unique, even though they all share a common origin (think one big human empire and a host of off-shoot nations). The alien factions are suitably alien. You're not dealing with the trite gallery of ridged foreheads, antennae, and random skin color variations. Basically, these are cultures I want to hear more stories about.
All of the ships are gorgeous and evoke a great sense of the style and culture of the races that use them.
These are still fairly initial impressions, but I'm not regretting the purchase by any means and am looking forward to playing it a lot more.
Who else has given this title a go?
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Baaaaaaalls.
My name is Red, and I'm a video game addict.
I'm going to wait until the Steam holiday sale to buy this wonderful-looking game.
*breathes deep*
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dayum.
I kind of looks like Sins of a Solar Empire, only much more advanced in every front. How similar is it to Sins?
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It's a turn-based strategy game, so fundamentally it plays a lot different from Sins. You'll get the long-term "manage an empire" vibe that you get from Civilization or Master of Orion, in a good way.
As far as game design goes, Endless Space is very polished. There aren't any extraneous elements, or useless techs. Some of the late-game strategies, such as mass terraforming, can yield some enormous benefits if you're willing to invest. Unlike other 4X games, combat and conquest bonuses are useful throughout, and not swiftly outdone by industry and science bonuses. Watch out for the Cravers.
What can't be understated is the interface. It's sleek, smooth, fast, and intuitive. The interface contributes greatly to making the game a pleasure to play.
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*saw Ken and Shaalira's approval*
*immediately purchased*
*downloading as we speak*
I love 4X games. I absolutely hate RTS games for deluding what a gamer thinks of as "strategy" anymore. So glad to see well done 4X games coming out.
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I got it as soon as it came out, and it hasn't disappointed. Quality stuff!
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Wasnt sure initially if it was a good title or not but considering the impressions here i might give it a try.
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I bought it too, my only complain so far is that for late game, the number of "fleets" gets so huge that my PC dies trying to handle all the AI movements.
Supposedly there will be a free add-on soon and then an expansion.
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I'm downloading this at the moment. I'm curious about how much I take to the turn-based mechanics, since I've traditionally preferred RTS. Yes, I know, the arrogance of youth, and all that.
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one slight suggesstion, visit endlessspace.wikia.com for a really helpful guide on how to start......there are MANY aspects of the game that are not intuitive.
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I've traditionally preferred RTS.
<tases Kyber>
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I've traditionally preferred RTS.
<tases Kyber>
/musical theatre
Why ? Whyyy being enemies ? Couldnt 4X and RTS be best friends ever ?
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I'm probably being a bit dumb, but I'm not sure I grasp the FIDS system too well. I know that the dust is basically stored up to use as-and-when, but there doesn't seem to be a similar stockpile for food / industry / science? How do industry and science relate to the rate of researching or manufacture?
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http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/FIDS
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I looked at that before posting, but I'm either being stupid or it doesn't answer me. Does the system work like if, say, a project consumed 130 Industry, the number of turns it takes depends on how rapidly your total industrial output can reach 130? e.g. one turn if it exceeds it, two if it's 80 / turn, three if it's 50 / turn, etc.?
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It works just like production in Civilization. So, basically as you just described. Really weren't kidding about not being used to turn based mechanics, were you? :)
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This is my first real attempt at them in 24 (almost 25) years.
You should be honoured to have made me want to try it, mister. :3
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Dangit. I went to the wiki and looked around and am finding the sheer (aparent) depth and complexity. In a turn-based game, this is almost entirely irresistable. Just as I've been enjoying Planetside 2 so much and playing a bit of FTL and... dammit. Is this game as awesome as it looks?
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Its a solid turn based space 4X that manages to be both accessible and complex, which is a rare thing. Also the presentation is excellent and the universe sufficiently interesting.
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Yea, this is good stuff. Will probably be looking to organize an Endless Space MP game in the next week or so. Putting feelers out for interested players.
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OK, lissen up Moros.
Industry is used to build system improvements and ships. It's per system - a system contributes towards its own production only. If it's not immediately used in the construction of something (i.e., your build queue is empty), then the industry that system produces that turn is wasted. If you have nothing to build, queue up one of the 'convert to dust' or 'convert to research' options.
Food is also per system. Food accumulates in the local store of food and eventually translates into a new unit of population. If a system does not produce enough food to satisfy its needs, population will actually decline.
Science is empire-wide. Every system contributes its produced research points towards whatever tech you're researching.
Dust is currency. Every system contributes its balance sheet to your empire total. Some systems can go into the negative, especially if you have a lot of superfluous system improvements. The empire window lets you see your overall budget.
I looked at that before posting, but I'm either being stupid or it doesn't answer me. Does the system work like if, say, a project consumed 130 Industry, the number of turns it takes depends on how rapidly your total industrial output can reach 130? e.g. one turn if it exceeds it, two if it's 80 / turn, three if it's 50 / turn, etc.?
Let's say a project requires 100 units of industry to finish. If your system produces 25 industry a turn, it'll take 4 turns to finish. If your system produces 50 industry a turn, it'll take 2 turns. etc. If your system actually produces more than 100 units of industry, the overflow will contribute to the next project in the queue.
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I'm down for a multiplayer game. Will custom factions be allowed? Otherwise, I'll give Pilgrims a try.
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OK, lissen up Moros.
Industry is used to build system improvements and ships. It's per system - a system contributes towards its own production only. If it's not immediately used in the construction of something (i.e., your build queue is empty), then the industry that system produces that turn is wasted. If you have nothing to build, queue up one of the 'convert to dust' or 'convert to research' options.
Food is also per system. Food accumulates in the local store of food and eventually translates into a new unit of population. If a system does not produce enough food to satisfy its needs, population will actually decline.
Science is empire-wide. Every system contributes its produced research points towards whatever tech you're researching.
Dust is currency. Every system contributes its balance sheet to your empire total. Some systems can go into the negative, especially if you have a lot of superfluous system improvements. The empire window lets you see your overall budget.
I looked at that before posting, but I'm either being stupid or it doesn't answer me. Does the system work like if, say, a project consumed 130 Industry, the number of turns it takes depends on how rapidly your total industrial output can reach 130? e.g. one turn if it exceeds it, two if it's 80 / turn, three if it's 50 / turn, etc.?
Let's say a project requires 100 units of industry to finish. If your system produces 25 industry a turn, it'll take 4 turns to finish. If your system produces 50 industry a turn, it'll take 2 turns. etc. If your system actually produces more than 100 units of industry, the overflow will contribute to the next project in the queue.
<3 Thank youuu. So much less confused now.
If we do a MP, with the caveat that I may well be the worst person ever at it, I'd not mind playing as the Sowers, time permitting.
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Sounds like quite close to civilization in its core mechanisms ?
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The Gottiians will rule the MP game!
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I have this now, and Kyber has been teaching me how to play (that should give you an indication of how bad I am). I'm willing to get involved in a multi-player game :)
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I am resisting the urge to get this. I'm not sure how long that will last.
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I'm down for a multiplayer game. Will custom factions be allowed? Otherwise, I'll give Pilgrims a try.
I'd like to keep it to the stock factions. They have a certain character that would be lost by allowing min/maxing with custom faction traits.
MP in Endless Space is real time and runs on simultaneous turns. This means coordination can be a bear, but the actual play experience is pretty smooth for a turn-based game. Will need to compare and match time zones and available play times. Happily, players can drop in and out mid-game and their empires will be managed by the AI in their absence.
Right now I'm tracking interest from...
Me (Ken) - Cravers
Shaalira - Pilgrims
Kyber - Sowers
Gottii - ???
Kala - Hissho
Factions remaining: United Empire, Sophons, Amoeba, Horatio
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How much is it for this again?
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30 on steam
I am interested as well but don't count me in yet since I don't know if I will have the time to try the game before.
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I'll check it out when I have money.
Right after Portal II, Minecraft, and Singularity.
Eventually.
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I'm down for a multiplayer game. Will custom factions be allowed? Otherwise, I'll give Pilgrims a try.
I'd like to keep it to the stock factions. They have a certain character that would be lost by allowing min/maxing with custom faction traits.
MP in Endless Space is real time and runs on simultaneous turns. This means coordination can be a bear, but the actual play experience is pretty smooth for a turn-based game. Will need to compare and match time zones and available play times. Happily, players can drop in and out mid-game and their empires will be managed by the AI in their absence.
Right now I'm tracking interest from...
Me (Ken) - Cravers
Shaalira - Pilgrims
Kyber - Sowers
Gottii - ???
Kala - ???
Factions remaining: United Empire, Sophons, Hissho, Amoeba, Horatio
I'm willing to do Hissho or Horatio.
EDIT: Make that Hissho. I like Hissho :p
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To be honest, the first few tries i was kinda " meh", but after fighting against the AI with its large quantity of ships, i'm amazed at how engaging the game becomes after one starts to unravel all the mix/maxing
one thing that kinda irritates me though, is the "auto" mode on battles, your fleets are not very intelligent dealing with AI ones, since the AI micromanages it eitherway
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Apparently there is a bug on steam (probably tied to the steam overlay) which randomly prevents your fleets to be moved properly (they do nothing with right click). I faced this glitch which was completely game-breaking until I found a way to overcome it : use ctrl + right click, and it worked for me. Some say it worked for them with shift instead, but it did nothing for me.
I hope this will prove to be a durable fix for me :/
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The game seems to use sticky keys for Shift and possibly others. It shows the locked key at the top of the screen in flashing white, but the text is very small. This is easy to miss and likely to happen if you hit Shift+Tab to bring up the Steam interface in game. Could be you just had Shift locked.
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Yeah, I saw these notification, and nope, unfortunately I had nothing of the sort on screen (the first thing I checked was if capslock was activated, or something like that).
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Is there a way to upgrade ships without destroying them, the same way you can pay a little cash to update your units in civ ? Ok, in civ units are units and do not have setups and specific stuff fitted on them, so it is easier to do, but still ? Can't the game just upgrade your beam weapon grade #2 to grade #3 and refit the ship instead of thrashing it ? It's especially annoying since as soon as you start building your ships, a new tech pops in your tech tree and makes your shiny new ships obsolete... It is most annoying in peace situations.
There was an option in ascendancy (the game), another space 4X game (that was awesome btw, even if too micromanaging at the end), which allowed you to call your ships back into your shipyards and refit them with new tech modules. It was really usefull. And that way you don't lose all the xp your ship got.
Here it seems to me that the more experienced your ships are, the more obsolete they also are. That's a little bit ridiculous... :/
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Otherwise my impressions on the game are quite good overall. It behaves similarly to civ on a lot of key points, like strategic and luxury resources.
However the population happiness is a lot more granular, where in civ your cities were producing at full speed as long as your happy population >= your unhappy population, and here, the more happy, the more productive the planets are. I think the granular factor is not so bad but it definitly makes the game a lot more painful to manage and lot more complicated/obscure. There was an overall simplicity with a lot less math in civ that made the game more enjoyable to play for me.
I really like the way you can customize your ships on another hand, as well as the presence of heroes.
I think their technology tree is interesting but the same way than population happiness, it's really too much convoluted to my taste. I liked the more linear and streamlined tech tree used in civ, which made all the tech benefits remaining coherent with each other. Here you can perfectly only research one specific side of the tree and go for exploration only, but that would be foolish. With the exception of the military tree, every tree are depending on each other : some improvements found in the diplo/economic tree can perfectly need resources or improvements found in both the other trees to work correctly. That, and also going too far in a specific tree will find you with incredibly high research time as your empire is obviously not able to digest the expensive high end researchs too soon, which will inevitably make you find a good balance between all trees. The only tree that is more independant to the others is the military tree, with mostly weapons and warfare improvements.
So eventually as much as I find that allowing players to be more advanced in some areas and backwards in some others, it remains an unpractical delusion. If I were them I would definitly put together the 3 civilian trees and only keep the military tree separated. Not necessarily putting them together the hard way like in civ, with links between each of them, but definitly with technological stages where you need to have filled most of the current stage to pass to the next, much like in civ with the iron age, the middle ages, the industrial age, and the modern times. It was also cool in civ to always have an overview from your advisors or just visually how much advanced or backwards you were compared to others, here it is a little more complicated to see.
Also, the thing I probably miss the most was the clear and obvious differences there was between every age in civ. It was always funny to bombard musketeers with cesession riflemen or WW1 artillery, or laugh at the medieval cities of your neighbor with your polluting coal factories. It gave the game a lot of depth, which I have difficulties to find back in Endless space.
Another thing as well, too many techs. I am playing a game with a gigantic galaxy so maybe I have too much resources at my disposal, but even with less resources production would be slower so it would remain in line with a slower tech developement. So, in any case, in my current game I am finding new researchs almost every turn. It's way too much. Goes too fast, and it loses a lot of its impact that we had for example in civ (again...) when you spent 15 turns learning for your next tech and could say "HOLY SHIT I KNOW GUNPOWDER NOW". Nothing of the sort here, sadly. I would prefer a lot less tech, but longer and much more significant.
But overall, yeah, I think that's quite a good game, just sometimes a little too much convoluted to be as fun to play as a civilization (civ 3). I still love it.
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when you are on the shipyard (little ship icon on top left), instead of "creating" a new configuration, just modify an existing one, existing models of the old type will now be available to "upgrade" with dust currency.
makes it much more easy to keep varied fleets and keep improving them here and there with time
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Another thing as well, too many techs. I am playing a game with a gigantic galaxy so maybe I have too much resources at my disposal, but even with less resources production would be slower so it would remain in line with a slower tech developement. So, in any case, in my current game I am finding new researchs almost every turn. It's way too much. Goes too fast, and it loses a lot of its impact that we had for example in civ (again...) when you spent 15 turns learning for your next tech and could say "HOLY SHIT I KNOW GUNPOWDER NOW". Nothing of the sort here, sadly. I would prefer a lot less tech, but longer and much more significant.
In a giant galaxy with a lot of planets, it's not surprising to have your research going at such a strong rate. If techs are coming too fast for your tastes, you may want to try playing with smaller planets, fewer planets per star system, smaller galaxy or one with a lower density of stars, or even setting the game speed to slow.
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when you are on the shipyard (little ship icon on top left), instead of "creating" a new configuration, just modify an existing one, existing models of the old type will now be available to "upgrade" with dust currency.
makes it much more easy to keep varied fleets and keep improving them here and there with time
Yes I know how to upgrade the "setups" I have designed. What I don't know how to do is how to make those upgrades happen on the existing ships of my fleets. You say you can pay with dust currency for that, I must be missing something obvious, but I don't see how/where you can do that.
Another thing as well, too many techs. I am playing a game with a gigantic galaxy so maybe I have too much resources at my disposal, but even with less resources production would be slower so it would remain in line with a slower tech developement. So, in any case, in my current game I am finding new researchs almost every turn. It's way too much. Goes too fast, and it loses a lot of its impact that we had for example in civ (again...) when you spent 15 turns learning for your next tech and could say "HOLY SHIT I KNOW GUNPOWDER NOW". Nothing of the sort here, sadly. I would prefer a lot less tech, but longer and much more significant.
In a giant galaxy with a lot of planets, it's not surprising to have your research going at such a strong rate. If techs are coming too fast for your tastes, you may want to try playing with smaller planets, fewer planets per star system, smaller galaxy or one with a lower density of stars, or even setting the game speed to slow.
Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Even if the production will slow down all together with research, I will have more free rounds with a lot less stuff happening each time to breath a little. Otherwise it progresses too fast to enjoy each step fully.
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when you are on the shipyard (little ship icon on top left), instead of "creating" a new configuration, just modify an existing one, existing models of the old type will now be available to "upgrade" with dust currency.
makes it much more easy to keep varied fleets and keep improving them here and there with time
Yes I know how to upgrade the "setups" I have designed. What I don't know how to do is how to make those upgrades happen on the existing ships of my fleets. You say you can pay with dust currency for that, I must be missing something obvious, but I don't see how/where you can do that.
Go to the shipyard menu where you see your ship designs as well as a listing of all your fleets. Click on a fleet and a 'Retrofit' button should be made available at the bottom of the list, along with a Dust cost. Assuming there's an upgrade available.
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Ah, thanks ! Will try it next time I resume playing :)
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All this talk made me get this game, now I am going to leave work early to play this game.... I am Logan Fyreite if anyone wants to add me on steam.
Speaking of, where is the backstage group for Steam?
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Bringing this thread back to life. Is anyone willing to get a weekly multi-player game going, if so I am willing to organize something. :)
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I'm up for that.
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Still interested of course, though I wonder how painful it will be to find the right time in the week for everyone to be able to attend. :P
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I'd love to if I had the time. But I really don't see where I could find the time right now. :cry:
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I'd be first eliminated every match. Wish there was a spectator mode. :3