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[Casiella]

In a wider sense, Casi is wish fulfillment. Cybernetically enhanced hacker and researcher who can live forever, travel faster than light, talk with her mind, research technologies of which we can only dream, and work for a secret government intelligence agency for Freedom and Liberty, while simultaneously working for a high-tech organized crime syndicate?

Um. Yeah.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

In such a harsh and brutal universe where no one can be trusted, and the essential imperitive to reproduce has been subverted by pseudo-immortality, one could argue that finding anyone in this god-forsaken place worth trusting beyond sharing a corporation together is quite a feat in itself. Yes, that's right, Kaleigh is one of those evil cross-factional space lesbians everyone seems to be raving about these days.

And yet what many would never know had I not brought it up is that there have been many male counterparts that I had been involved with prior to my induction into the 'rp community'. However, my more vocal roleplay relationships have involved a Sansha supporter, a Sani Sabik cultist, freespace guerilla fighter, Caldari ultranationalist, Cartel smuggler, Krusal assassin, a Matari Dominatrix, and *exhales* probably many more I've forgotten along the way.

I really give everyone a chance, but most of the male characters I interact with are not even close to 'relationship' material. I think one of the reasons playing a female character is so attractive, especially in roleplay, is that they're allowed to be dynamic- you can be the tough, badass tomboy with an attitude, the vulnerable, soft-spoken flower, or the seductive black widow. Being a male imposes a narrow spectrum of expectation from the community, which I think is largely unattractive for players wanting to experience the whole gammut of emotion. There are certain expectations of them and they aren't necessarily allowed to be vulnerable without being sensitive (if that makes any sense).

As far as ERP goes, I enjoy the experience with the right partners, and not so much with others. It's alot like the real world; some make it pleasure and others make it a job. It's all part of the package, and I wouldn't ever deny the flow of a relationship with uh...FTB?

That said, I have to admit I'm kind over the whole relationship scene. Of course, I've said that before and suddenly I find myself surprised by a well-spoken roleplayer that I click with well, and...you never know what'll happen. 

[Silver Night]

Being a male imposes a narrow spectrum of expectation from the community, which I think is largely unattractive for players wanting to experience the whole gammut of emotion. There are certain expectations of them and they aren't necessarily allowed to be vulnerable without being sensitive (if that makes any sense).

I think it does, but any chance you could expand on it? I think that the 'expected' gender roles in RP in the game are worth discussing.

[orange]

Dex Nederland has a woman he loves/loved and a daughter.  He has never knowingly met his daughter and if he met his former love, he would have to spend the next day in an LDPS interview room being debriefed about him knowingly coming in contact with a Hyasyoda/Corporate Police Force agent.

Dex Nederland's mother keeps track of her granddaughter by way of her contacts in the Navy's Child Care & Education System.  Dex occasionally ask how his daughter is progressing.

All this leads to Dex understandably having a very closed relationship state.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Being a male imposes a narrow spectrum of expectation from the community, which I think is largely unattractive for players wanting to experience the whole gammut of emotion. There are certain expectations of them and they aren't necessarily allowed to be vulnerable without being sensitive (if that makes any sense).

I think it does, but any chance you could expand on it? I think that the 'expected' gender roles in RP in the game are worth discussing.

People will argue against this, and I'm sure there are just tons of people that break my generalization, but I think western civilization (ie. the real world) has an impact on what is expected of men and women, and I think to a degree that carries over into our roleplay. Men are expected to be manly, egotistical, idealistic, protectors, and warriors, and too egotistical to show weakness. Thanks to feminism, women can be any of those things AND show weakness and humility if so desired, without negative connotation. Consider the double-standard on homosexuality in a male-dominated culture and you see why lesbians (and women in general) are preferred over men.

While I believe the capsule technology makes for a great sexual equalizer, not all of the societies our characters originated from enjoyed such ambiguity. Granted the Federation is probably the best at espousing sexual equality, the Jin Mei would be a huge exception to that rule following traditions passed down from the beginning of their civilization (and only now disrupted thanks to their introduction to liberal gallentean values). Minmatar tribal traditions encourage a patriarchial and polygomous society that's discriminatory (voluvial markings determine your fate), not unlike their Amarrian foes.

The point is, as much as we're told there are no differences in gender, I think we all know there are, even if its just society's impression on us. I think if we're conscious of that, and aware of our own interpretations of our character's origins, our approach to relationships might be more...realistic to us and others that look in.

[Silver Night]

Is there stuff about the inequality for the Jin Mei and the Minmatar somewhere? From what I've seen, gender equality seems to be nearly universal (unlikely though that is - CCP position from the start, though, I think?), but I might have missed references, or things that indirectly implied the structures of some of these societies?

[Myrhial Arkenath]

I've always found this a difficult topic. On the one hand, FTB is what you get to see in your average movie these days, so why not in RP? On the other hand it is more personal than watching a movie. And to take another movie analogy, the obligatory romance / sex scene can seriously spoil a good plot.

It is a funny thing that murder, theft and so forth are perfectly acceptable roleplay, but relationships / sex still are either taboo, or not taboo enough (openly flaunting about it to be provocative or get attention), and it can get mighty complicated when you look past the characters.

I personally disapprove of people doing it as an escape from their own relationship, especially if the partner does not know about it in a steady relationship. HTFU and deal with your real life first. The reverse case, where a partner is very restrictive or jealous is also a case where talking is advised though, because in a healthy relationship this shouldn't be an issue.

I've taken a stance in the past where I told corp members to keep their shit private, not because of what they did, but because it was being part of a bigger drama spiral making everyone feel bad both in and out of character. And if RP no matter what the topic is causes personal distress for some involved, that is where I draw the line.

To conclude, I can't totally shake off the feeling that two men roleplaying women and getting it on is wrong. Maybe because I was raised rather conservatively, or maybe I simply don't understand it as a woman. Annoying, since I do consider myself to be open-minded.

[Eva]

I have to admit I have found the space lesbians phenomenon a bit stomach-twisty at times. My early days in Eve were littered with sexist jibes, godmode cyber and continuous rape jokes that made me feel really, really uncomfortable and being bi myself, it felt (and I stress this is a personal impression) a lot like in every possible arena, women were being held up as fap fodder and nothing else and one or two women, I perceived as playing into it and essentially encouraging behaviour that was making my time online into hell.

It's been a lot of years since then. I've grown a thicker skin and reached a sort of mindset where I'll crusade happily for things I need in my gaming headspace, but not out of some need to "protect all women players" and whatnot. Other women can make their own decisions or I'm just as bad as some of the people I might complain about.

So these days, if people want to play something they consider both erotic and beautiful, why not?

Though from a setting point of view, it would be nice to see heterosexuality as not statistically nearly extinct. My quip to Kudon was basically meant to be a joke on what has sometimes felt to me like a setting cliche. "Hi, I'm a guy about to play a female character." "Orilly? You're a lesbian then?"

My views have become similar on the subject of cyber, something else I started off militantly against. I knew a lot of people who had their hearts more or less crushed through too much cross-over from game to RL one way or another. FTB has a lot less risk of upsetting people (or accidentally talking porn with a minor) but basically, if you enjoy writing erotica with a partner, why not? Why, in the end, is it any of my business?

Except for purposes of teasing dibble. I reserve the right to tease dibble about being a cyb0rhound for the rest of eternity or until I find out he doesn't like it.

[Kohiko Sun]

When I first clicked the topic, I was expecting an EVE version of the Make-A-Wish Foundation.
*puts that idea aside for later use*

My early days in Eve were littered with sexist jibes, godmode cyber and continuous rape jokes that made me feel really, really uncomfortable and being bi myself, it felt (and I stress this is a personal impression) a lot like in every possible arena, women were being held up as fap fodder and nothing else and one or two women, I perceived as playing into it and essentially encouraging behaviour that was making my time online into hell.

I've hit that wall in every online game I've touched. The rape jokes are the worst and a quick trip to ignore and reporting; why did that suddenly become so "cool"? I just hope I don't make trouble for you when I pipe out a quick dirty comment in our OOC channel.


Spaaaaaaaace Lesbians: Maybe it's because of my absence from the game; maybe it's because I'm in such a relationship IRL and don't really pay attention to it in-game; maybe it's because of the small cluster of people I orbit in the game; but I've not really seen it to any outstanding degree in EVE compared to any other place I've had online RP.

To FTB or not to FTB; that is the question: Both methods, if you even choose to enter the physical relationship side of RP, have their pros and cons. I see it as something that needs to be decided between the players involved for themselves - the thought police stuff is for the Black Eagles and Provists; we players shouldn't try to assume that role.

I look at my RP with one big question in mind, "How can I make it the most fun for everyone?" I have a trust in everyone else to consider the other player(s). Everyone I know personally here does. So, whether you FTB and then go pew pew rats with the player of your IC lover to pass the time or act out calling down the Amarrian god, it's usually a safe bet in the interests of "everyone" to handle all of that behind closed doors. But, the question becomes, "How much is too much for public consumption?" Affectionate talk? Flirting? Resting against? Holding hands? Pecks on the cheek? A proper kiss? What intensity of a proper kiss? On and on. Each of us will draw the line at a different point.


I think a lot of the problem in both cases comes from a difference between personal tastes. As an example, Player A thinks they're portraying something "dangerous, sexy, and proudly uninhibited" with their overt emotes and IGS love letters. They may think they're adding a needed "edge" by making it so public. On the other side, Player B is thinking, "I don't see how you're acting in the same way you do. You can do unrestrained sexy-rawr without shoving it up my nose." And, that difference in playstyle will always be the self-feeding nature of the beast for topics like this and why they appear regularly on so many RP-related forums.

[Ulphus]

Though from a setting point of view, it would be nice to see heterosexuality as not statistically nearly extinct. My quip to Kudon was basically meant to be a joke on what has sometimes felt to me like a setting cliche. "Hi, I'm a guy about to play a female character." "Orilly? You're a lesbian then?"

There are guys playing hetero women out there...
(And indeed, women playing hetero men)

One of the reasons my female character is hetero is that I think I have a fairly good grasp on the whole het relationship, and can make plausible decisions about what they're thinking and how they behave.

I don't feel confident that I could play a lesbian with more depth than a caricature, which is part of why I avoid it.

(Ciarente, this is not your cue 

[Vieve]

One of the reasons my female character is hetero is that I think I have a fairly good grasp on the whole het relationship, and can make plausible decisions about what they're thinking and how they behave.

I don't feel confident that I could play a lesbian with more depth than a caricature, which is part of why I avoid it.

Me too, man.  My females are hetero because I believe I've got a fairly good grasp on what it means to be a heterosexual woman, even if I don't understand their obsession with shoes (my characters -- though Celeste does occasionally step into brightly colored stilleto-heeled pumps -- tend to wear sensible ones).

I'm pretty sure I'd be stressing the b in subtle if I tried playing a genuinely lesbian character.  Possibly even giving it an umlaut.

[IzzyChan]

Once me and eva tried out making two gay dude alts for some innocent rp lulz.

Started  out shakey, ended pretty awesome.  Some people actually rped along with us as well.  Others were disgusted I think. Prolly cuz my alt kept shamelessly flirting with anything that moved. xD

But I don't worry about that shit with the Izzeh.  The Izzeh is just the Izzeh.  Everyone else has cooties.

[Casiella]

But you promised yourself to me.

[Silver Night]

My characters are a mix, but I haven't rally sought out relationships for any of them.

[Kyoko Sakoda]

Penis. Lot's of it ITT.

Just sayin'.